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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.08.25 21:16:00 - [121]
 

I'm off to bed for now, I'll respond in the morning to any questions that Athre or Hexxx can't, don't or won't answer. You won't receive a response from any other member of staff besides the three of us.

Itana Gelari
Posted - 2009.08.25 21:34:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Itana Gelari on 25/08/2009 21:34:46
I am by no means a grand master of the financial jujitsu that is the EVE Market, but I would like to put my two pence out on the line.

This may be a hair-brained (read: not applicable to this situation) idea, but I thought I would throw it out there.

If I understand this at all correctly, and I am probably grossly mistaken, part of the way the United States Government deals with financial woes is to 'sell' debt to another nation; in particular we owe a good deal to China. I'm not sure the pay rate (dollar for dollar, pennies on the dollar, pennies on the hundreds, or what ever). However, given the nature of your 'toxic loans' and other defaulted loans, it seems to me that this idea would be beneficial to EBank as a means of generating liquidity from otherwise 'lost causes'. (I think this idea was hinted at previously, but I'm not sure)

It's not the best idea, but it's a good compromise between complete seizing/freezing of all accounts and total liquidation of E-Bank and closing down.


I also recognize the far-fetched nature of this (who in their right mind would want to buy a toxic loan?), but there just -may- be some people/organizations/corporations out there who are willing to take the risk and try to acquire repayment of the loan. Maybe not the massive, multi-billion ISK loans, but the (I would imagine) fortune of smaller loans where, if the corp fails to receive payment, they are at no substantial loss.

Again, I could very well be talking out of my ass, but i wanted to put this out there.

Best of luck E-Bank and all!

Jadun
Posted - 2009.08.25 21:36:00 - [123]
 

yo ho all

1. EBank is like BAMBI now?

2. Will there be a Name Change for the duration of the Freeze? Maybe Something like..

"Project: Frozen Isk (That you cannot touch or even lick like Ice cream)"

I donot believe that you can still be called a Bank.

So you get a 1.7 Trillion isk loan for year and you pay no intrest. Did you guys acount for the chance that someone of that so called Project Frozen Isk might do a runner with some more of that Ice-cream Isk that you are holding hostage right now?




Bernie Ebbers
Charles Ponzi School of Business
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.25 21:41:00 - [124]
 

I could probably get together a syndicate of some very wealthy players to take over Ebank.

But we wouldn't keep the existing board if we're going to inject billions of ISK into the firm as equity capitol.

Lecherito
Posted - 2009.08.25 21:55:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Lecherito on 25/08/2009 21:57:20
So every time that something like this happens, meaning scandal or misfortune plagues the MD MVPs, a group of uncomfortably naive individuals arises to voice unconditional support for those affected. Our precious "MD Elite" have, effectively, stolen over a *trillion* ISK in public money. Their "might get it back, might not, mayhaps a year" attitude is akin to the bipolar mentality we saw in LRN's attention whoring, some months ago. Commendable? I think not.

How the bajeezus are those whose ISK you've unethically seized not entitled to input concerning how their capital is utilized? Do the MD elites truly have the authority, the faith, to pull this off while retaining their "good" names? If *anyone* else even *attempted* something like this, they'd be flamed out of MD indefinitely. But because of the "prestige" associated with names like Ray and Athre, people continue to give them the benefit of the doubt. How is this sound? How is that continued faith justifiable?

Ebank started off as corrupt, continued to act corruptly, and has just embarked on one of the most corrupt paths possible. When the F will MDers start standing up for themselves??

-L

Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:00:00 - [126]
 

"Welcome aboard Ebank 1, Ray"
"Thank's Ebank - what's our current destination?"
"We're thinking about a nose-dive into that corn field over there. It looked safer than the volcano."


Seriously Ray, thanks for being honest, and best of luck.




Taikun
Gallente
Jovoso
Teldar Paper
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:02:00 - [127]
 

A fool and his money is soon departed. In this case... fools.

The only thing size did for eBank was disguise and delay the enevitable corruption. There will be more as these directors (like rats) sieze assets and flee the sinking ship with the gold.

[FREE ADVICE] Watch the up coming eBank share float on the back of the opening og a another high interest account. This will maximise the 'screw over' of this community when they grow some brains and go for the 'largest scam ever' to make the news. Try not to get your isk caught up in their ego-stroke.

The real outrage should be the 75 BILLION these so called directors took home. They couldn't direct water out of a tap.

Taikun

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:08:00 - [128]
 

I applaud the remaining staff for their efforts, but I agree that a choice should be put to account holders on how to proceed as soon as the details become clear. For some people, the priority will be to get a certain amount of isk out quickly, and their wishes ought to be respected as far as possible.

Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:16:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Lecherito
Edited by: Lecherito on 25/08/2009 21:57:20
So every time that something like this happens, meaning scandal or misfortune plagues the MD MVPs, a group of uncomfortably naive individuals arises to voice unconditional support for those affected. Our precious "MD Elite" have, effectively, stolen over a *trillion* ISK in public money. Their "might get it back, might not, mayhaps a year" attitude is akin to the bipolar mentality we saw in LRN's attention whoring, some months ago. Commendable? I think not.

How the bajeezus are those whose ISK you've unethically seized not entitled to input concerning how their capital is utilized? Do the MD elites truly have the authority, the faith, to pull this off while retaining their "good" names? If *anyone* else even *attempted* something like this, they'd be flamed out of MD indefinitely. But because of the "prestige" associated with names like Ray and Athre, people continue to give them the benefit of the doubt. How is this sound? How is that continued faith justifiable?

Ebank started off as corrupt, continued to act corruptly, and has just embarked on one of the most corrupt paths possible. When the F will MDers start standing up for themselves??

-L


I can wish Ray good luck pulling this one out while simultaneously maintaining my 0 isk investment.


ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
Independent Faction
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:18:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 25/08/2009 22:18:45
I, for one, trust EBANK completely.

Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:22:00 - [131]
 

Nothing to worry about - Ray is running EBANK like AATP SmileRazzTwisted Evil

I think that your share values need to be looked at; I would value your portfolio a lot lower, although you do seem to be missing 10 billion in Titans4U.

Why only the three of you to field questions, and none of them your PR person?

Ebolak
Vengeance Asset Relocation
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:25:00 - [132]
 

Ray, why dont you allow speculators to buy account balances, but make it a two pronged attack on the problem.

The offers ive seen are to buy out existing accounts at 10% of thier value.

If you combined this with only selling them 90% of the balance, they still have a massive gain if and when you guys become solvent, and you would cut down on your obligations by 10% from the start.

PS if this idea sucks its because im not a banker. Im a schemer, but im solvent Razz

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:30:00 - [133]
 

Quote:

If *anyone* else even *attempted* something like this, they'd be flamed out of MD indefinitely



This is what happened when I tried to take over on a failed IPO's debts:

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1120822

"So basically by offering such a low rate of return you want investors to shoulder *your* risk and offer said investors virtually nothing for their trust -- nevermind their patience on an incredibly long time frame"
"This plan is a gem. 16 months to recover 10% has to be a joke. That is longer than I have been playing this game. This is a joke, right?"

Now, we are talking of a many magnitudes bigger debt and a year+ of time if all goes well... for my same 10% interest? No, for 0%.


Now, my salvage plan was a "let's try it, if they accept we both get a good deal" thing and when I made it I gave it a 30% chance to be accepted.
In EBANK case, someone came up with this brilliant idea to scare the HELL out of depositors by kidnapping their accounts to undefined date?

I mean, I - small fry, did not consider that more than a "try" attempt and *top qualified bankers* come up with a poorer plan?

What is the *rationale* beyond "on paper accounting" that makes a political / economical entity survive after such a decision?
WHY would an investor still believe in the EBANK security after this has been pulled onto their necks?

Is it possible that there's really not a single other way to come up with exercise money? Heck, I have seen "normal" investees recapitalizing and / or converting a debt into another.
Was this path explored?



Quote:

Ebank started off as corrupt, continued to act corruptly, and has just embarked on one of the most corrupt paths possible. When the F will MDers start standing up for themselves??



It's not corrupt. It's stupid. It can work VERY well with a sort of chapter 11 company but this is an institution whose principles should have been:

- transparency

- safety of money above ALL

- low interest but super-high availability of capital.



Now, the transparency arrived at last. But safety of money is... ransomed. Not to talk about the availability of capital.
I don't know if I am stupid or what, but how comes I can clearly see people suddenly being unable to i.e. buy their long coveted ORCA BPO or actually giving money they pre-reserved at Bad Bobby's IPO?

Those guys won't forget the blow - the second in a row.



Quote:

Ray, why dont you allow speculators to buy account balances, but make it a two pronged attack on the problem



Imho if they cave in to that, they will show like Mercs who were paid to kill a guy but the guy outbuys them and makes them steer objective back on the guy who hired them.
Might pay in the short term but it's horrible, horrible rep.

Josh Silver
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:37:00 - [134]
 

The salaries are quite low. You make 100m by 0.0 ratting or running missions for one evening, compared to a month of dealing with accounts, Excel sheets and dumb customers.

You should have cut the toxic loan losses when you took over, distribute them among the active accounts (everyone loses 30% or whatever) and lay the full blame on the ex-CEO.

Taikun
Gallente
Jovoso
Teldar Paper
Posted - 2009.08.25 22:51:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Taikun on 25/08/2009 22:52:30
Originally by: Ebolak
Ray, why dont you allow speculators to buy account balances, but make it a two pronged attack on the problem.


They will... but it wil be to themselves via alts. That way they gobble up 50% of the value for themselves without having to outright steal it.

A bank balance is not a share and any attempt from eBank to treat it as such should be considered embezzlement. They will fake some more bad news... depositors get scared... they refuse to release funds to depositors but a mysterious third party (controled by them) offers to buy at back @ 50% its isk value. They approve transaction and the depositor is screwed over.

I suspect an aanouncement they are approving this as the opportunity is too tempting to resist for the scruples of the existing directors.

Taikun

Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah
Posted - 2009.08.25 23:21:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Taikun
Edited by: Taikun on 25/08/2009 22:52:30
Originally by: Ebolak
Ray, why dont you allow speculators to buy account balances, but make it a two pronged attack on the problem.


They will... but it wil be to themselves via alts. That way they gobble up 50% of the value for themselves without having to outright steal it.

A bank balance is not a share and any attempt from eBank to treat it as such should be considered embezzlement. They will fake some more bad news... depositors get scared... they refuse to release funds to depositors but a mysterious third party (controled by them) offers to buy at back @ 50% its isk value. They approve transaction and the depositor is screwed over.

I suspect an aanouncement they are approving this as the opportunity is too tempting to resist for the scruples of the existing directors.

Taikun
I fear this too.

I hereby offer my EBANK account plus contents for sale to any of EBANK's board at a value equal to the amount of ISK I have in EBANK.

I get my money back, you get a 3% account and demonstrate your trust in EBANK.

Ulecese
Ihatalo Research and Development
Posted - 2009.08.25 23:37:00 - [137]
 

Just noticed this thread and I must say hats off to Ray and the Ebank team for their transparency regarding the situation.

[IRD] Liquidity is a little tight at the moment however if it helps I can offer to repurchase 100,000 IRD shares from Ebank at 50,000 ISK per share (Total 5b).

Ebank would stand to profit 2.3b ISK (does not include dividends recieved since purchase).
If memory serves correctly at the time of purchase they were 27,000 ISK each.

Also, I've just credited this month's 7.5% bond interest payment a couple of hours early.


Regards Ulecese

Sweetbaby Ray
Posted - 2009.08.25 23:44:00 - [138]
 

In other words, EVE Bank is saying, "So long, and thanks for all the ISK."

Yelan Zhou
Amarr
Ba.theen Aljannatal Asaakitah
Celestial Imperative
Posted - 2009.08.25 23:44:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Bernie Ebbers
I could probably get together a syndicate of some very wealthy players to take over Ebank.

But we wouldn't keep the existing board if we're going to inject billions of ISK into the firm as equity capitol.


Could you please stop posting, or at least type "Capital" right ?

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.08.25 23:58:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Marcus Baltar
I fear this too.

I hereby offer my EBANK account plus contents for sale to any of EBANK's board at a value equal to the amount of ISK I have in EBANK.

I get my money back, you get a 3% account and demonstrate your trust in EBANK.


If EBank directors were willing to give you 100%, they wouldn't have frozen withdrawals.

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2009.08.26 00:00:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack

A month or so. The plans are there, they just need to be formulated and put onto paper. I also have other reporting tools that need to be in place before that can happen.



Works for me.

Wengy
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.26 00:02:00 - [142]
 

"Hat's off" did someone say!?!?! WTF? Even after Ridic they kept accepting deposits, there's no possible way they couldn't have known about a 1.2 Trillion deficit. So they must have kept accepting deposits with full knowledge they'd eventually have to seize and stop all services. So they accepted deposits after Ridic's firing, in hopes of using the ISK to cover their losses I guess. What a sham.

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2009.08.26 00:06:00 - [143]
 

Offering to purchase accounts at reduced value to allow immediate liquidity for certain customers is actually a novel idea.

Ebank loses nothing, and the seller gets their isk immediately and the purchaser stands to make out like a mint.

I'd likely throw 400b easy into such a credit default swap.

Ulecese
Ihatalo Research and Development
Posted - 2009.08.26 00:18:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Wengy
"Hat's off" did someone say!?!?! WTF? Even after Ridic they kept accepting deposits, there's no possible way they couldn't have known about a 1.2 Trillion deficit. So they must have kept accepting deposits with full knowledge they'd eventually have to seize and stop all services. So they accepted deposits after Ridic's firing, in hopes of using the ISK to cover their losses I guess. What a sham.


"Hat's off" in regards to the honesty and no bulls%&t presentation of the facts to their clients.

I was praising the transparency and integrity of the ebank board, not the situation they have on their hands Smile

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.08.26 00:20:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Wengy
"Hat's off" did someone say!?!?! WTF? Even after Ridic they kept accepting deposits, there's no possible way they couldn't have known about a 1.2 Trillion deficit. So they must have kept accepting deposits with full knowledge they'd eventually have to seize and stop all services. So they accepted deposits after Ridic's firing, in hopes of using the ISK to cover their losses I guess. What a sham.


According to what was said above, EBank kept virtually no financial records. Them not knowing about the deficit is actually frighteningly possible.

For Sooth
Posted - 2009.08.26 00:22:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: For Sooth on 26/08/2009 00:23:34
Originally by: Taikun
Edited by: Taikun on 25/08/2009 22:52:30
Originally by: Ebolak
Ray, why dont you allow speculators to buy account balances, but make it a two pronged attack on the problem.


They will... but it wil be to themselves via alts. That way they gobble up 50% of the value for themselves without having to outright steal it.

A bank balance is not a share and any attempt from eBank to treat it as such should be considered embezzlement. They will fake some more bad news... depositors get scared... they refuse to release funds to depositors but a mysterious third party (controled by them) offers to buy at back @ 50% its isk value. They approve transaction and the depositor is screwed over.

I suspect an aanouncement they are approving this as the opportunity is too tempting to resist for the scruples of the existing directors.

Taikun
May I draw your attention here.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2009.08.26 00:26:00 - [147]
 

Just couple of questions;

1. If a business going under, the first step would be to eliminate liabilities. First thing that came to mind with wiping out the 75b owing to employee salaries. Was that option considered? I can imagine that some people would outright reject that.

2. It's known that EBank owns shares of public corporation including Flux Technologies, does EBank plan to hold onto those shares or sell them off at higher than purchase price?

3. Relating to #2, because you guys froze all accounts; customers can't retrieve their isk or earn interest. What's to stop other corporation whose shares are owned by EBank from sending dividends to EBank? I don't have any investment in EBank but if I did, my line of thought would probably be like this "If I can't get my money, why should I send these guys money?"

Good luck

species2143
Posted - 2009.08.26 00:56:00 - [148]
 

Ray I really hope you're not involved in the titans4U project like was suggested by a previous poster in this thread, cuz that would be an eclatant conflict of interest by being a business model that directly competes with EBANK on one of it's core income sources....

Also freezing the interest rates while blocking all withdrawals is not a decision that you should have made by yourself but ratheris a decision that the shareholders and customers should have taken. It doesn't matter how you justify the decision you took, it was not your call to make since you and the board of directors aren't the ones risking the real ISK unlike the shareholders and customers.

You have just condemned EBANK with that move cuz your reasoning is lets stick the finger in the hole so the dam won't brake, yet you're forgetting that you won't be receiving any further liquidity from deposits since there is no longer a point to deposit money in EBANK since there is no interest rates.

Now with that said the so called plan to fill the gap is a complete joke... it states % but no timetable?! What kind of a joke of management are you guys on the board? Any financial institution is able to give a best-case and worst-case timetable, do you really believe investors will be safistied with that answer until you guys get your act together? Oh I forgot, you don't really care about what the investors think... you simply assume you know what they think.

Yes these are harsh words not at all layed out in a diplomatic manner, but to be honoest you guys on the board deserved it. One can blame ricdic to a certain degree because one has to include the people that allowed for such a situation to occur in the first place... I'm not reffering to you but rather to those sheep on the board while ricdic was CEO. Those people are equally responsible for what happened from my point of view.

With all this said, I really hope that EBANK makes it out of this crysis and will learn, improve and prosper. Also I really respect that you're willing to stand by your decisions and take the heat of the comments such as mine. I fear that although your decisions and measures are correct from a rational point of view, they still forget that the essence of any banking business is the trust relationship with it's customers. This move of freezing the accounts without even suggesting paying interest whenever possible has completely abused that trust and might be a fatal mistake.


Brian Kwok
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:02:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: species2143

Also freezing the interest rates while blocking all withdrawals is not a decision that you should have made by yourself but ratheris a decision that the shareholders and customers should have taken It doesn't matter how you justify the decision you took, it was not your call to make since you and the board of directors aren't the ones risking the real ISK unlike the shareholders and c



Not much worth replying to except that ebank doesn't have shareholders and therefore can do whatever they want. It's not and has never been a public company, something that many people have complained about for a long time.

Stela'Artois
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:05:00 - [150]
 

As a client of Ebank, I am very disheartened to hear about the freeze, though I do appreciate your candidness in the matter. I am looking forward to learning more about your plans to pull out of this mess.

Good luck, and I wish you the best. I havent yet checked, but I hope the Ebank website is still live, as I would like to be able to check in on my isk and at least say hello...maybe bring it some cookies or at least give it some company...


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