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blankseplocked Salvage theft - trigger aggression?
 
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Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
Posted - 2009.08.26 21:30:00 - [31]
 

I love people who don't think their ideas through all the way.

I would love to see this implemented, Not that I think salvaging is stealing, I would just love to see the tears after all these tough guy carebears shoot the ninja salvagers just to have the ninja's corp mates roll in and blow up their mission ravens.

The tears would be epic, "He stole my salvage and blew up my raven"

Next they would be asking for ninja salvaging to be a concordable act.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2009.08.26 21:42:00 - [32]
 

your corpmates dont get aggro on a guy defending his stuff.
Despite of that, I would like rather see removing of loot ownership.

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.08.26 21:46:00 - [33]
 

Without reading though any replys, I'm sure one of which contains Ironfleet quotes, I'm going to paste it anyway because I'm sick of hearing this idea and don't feel the need to read everything in it.

Per CCP Mitnal:
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Per GM Faolchu :
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Per Senior GM Ytterbium :
Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.

Per CCP Prism X :
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)

With that said, I agree with some of the above people. BEWARE OF WHAT YOU ASK FOR! You, who are so into your PvE missions that you don't want someone else in the MMO to interact with them, want to be able to shoot at the people who make a profession out of others tears. You somehow think this is a good idea. I'm sure miners thought the same thing when it was announced that can flipping would give aggression. Guess what, now people don't canflip to steal, they could care less about what is in the can. They WANT you to shoot at them so they can blow up your 200mil ISK hulk. All they want is your tears.

How long do you think it would be before people stop salvaging for profit and only show up in missions to salvage your tears. People would salvage one thing to get aggression, wait for you to shoot, blow you up and leave everything in the mission untouched. Trust me, you do not want salvaging to give aggression, it would be very counter productive to what you are trying to do.

And I'm sure your a very scary person who would like to shoot the current salvagers. Keep in mind that if aggression is put in place these will not be the same people or the same ship fittings you are now dealing with.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.26 22:02:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 26/08/2009 22:17:30

I don't mind a temporary aggression counter on wrecks but it needs to count down then disappear. Many wrecks are abandoned; the whole idea of salvage is that abandon items are fair game for anyone.

note: I also think loot ownership should go neutral after sufficient time passes. I know what you’re thinking, ”be careful what you wish for; what about jet-cans.” Well, why shouldn’t they go neutral after an hour of no addition ore being deposited into the can?




IMASCATMAN
Posted - 2009.08.26 23:53:00 - [35]
 

I've been playing this game for just over 1 month, and this topic comes up almost everyday. Tbh I feel CCP's stance is the right one. Let's face it, the OPs of all these threads are farming high quality L4 missions in well known mission hubs (in Navy Ravens no doubt)... you're asking to be ninja salvaged.

Or maybe do some L4 missions in low sec and blow them up when try and ninja... oh wait you want to have your cake and eat it! This way both parties have the risk vs. reward factor, afterall their should be consequences to doing L4 missions in high sec... it's a rediculous cash cow from what I've read. Why shouldn't their be a drawback?!

High sec is a load of crap, the rules restrict certain people from doing certain things (whether it be pirates killing people or stopping ninjas) there's a whole different ruleset in low sec and null sec. You can't honestly expect to have it all, EVEN in high sec.

Oh and... destroy the salvage if someone is trying to take it from you, he'll soon leave. And for the love of god, do not whine at him.

*Waits for the oh so predictable replies about how it isn't fair and that how the ninja has no risk*

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.08.27 01:50:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Metalcali
Originally by: su ling
Originally by: sue AGPlant
paralell universe:

i swipe your salvage and you shoot me as per your sugestion:

ohh noes my iddy biddy destroyer with salvagers got blowed up woe is mee

but wait

if i jump in my shiny pew pew ship fitted to hit your nontank (as seen by the rats you be shooting at) i get to take all your shiny toys and make you cry harder YARRRR!!

Seriously do you REALY WANT THIS!!!???


Please jump into my mission after i blow your salvager up with your pew pew ship and we can dance, at least you would be earning your rewards, or lose your isk, instead of just being to lazy to do your own work.



Don't forget that people would be bringing their corp members along with them to pew pew. You may like this, but this forum would be overloaded with people whining to change it once again after the first week.


I would want that. The reply would then be, don't shoot them. If it was always like that, then everybody would be taking loots as well. Also, I am not worried about a 1 week old nub starter corp getting his revenge on me if I poof him with my lvl 4 ship.

Metalcali
Posted - 2009.08.27 03:42:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Markus Reese
Originally by: Metalcali
Originally by: su ling
Originally by: sue AGPlant
paralell universe:

i swipe your salvage and you shoot me as per your sugestion:

ohh noes my iddy biddy destroyer with salvagers got blowed up woe is mee

but wait

if i jump in my shiny pew pew ship fitted to hit your nontank (as seen by the rats you be shooting at) i get to take all your shiny toys and make you cry harder YARRRR!!

Seriously do you REALY WANT THIS!!!???


Please jump into my mission after i blow your salvager up with your pew pew ship and we can dance, at least you would be earning your rewards, or lose your isk, instead of just being to lazy to do your own work.



Don't forget that people would be bringing their corp members along with them to pew pew. You may like this, but this forum would be overloaded with people whining to change it once again after the first week.


I would want that. The reply would then be, don't shoot them. If it was always like that, then everybody would be taking loots as well. Also, I am not worried about a 1 week old nub starter corp getting his revenge on me if I poof him with my lvl 4 ship.


Haven't had anyone in my missions, haven't ninja'd from someone elses missions, just have the ability to spot a whiner who doesn't think ahead or try out new things before posting a viable solution Cool

Mad Maulkin
Posted - 2009.08.27 11:12:00 - [38]
 

Aw HELL! another one???!!!! the list is running out of room!

Originally by: El Liptonez
Oh hey, thought you might wanna read this.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1143161
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1140081
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1128088
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1136730
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1120748
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1116980
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115347
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115497
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1092372
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115121
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115359
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1114874
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1115387
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1092372
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1138530
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1067174
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1122548
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1113790
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1109936
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1145299
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1146536
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1147386
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1149102

Verloc Nostromo
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.08.27 17:03:00 - [39]
 

Easy solution to be able to shoot the ninjas (of which i readily admit to being from time to time) WAR DEC them. you can now shoot them all day everyday.

Gin G
The Helghast Corporation
Posted - 2009.08.27 17:12:00 - [40]
 

or just remove salvage and salvagers from the game then there will no more salvage to ""steal""

Sig Sour
Posted - 2009.08.27 17:12:00 - [41]
 

I'm just going to chime in here and say it's probably better for you that you don't get kill rights over it, otherwise I think a lot of you mission runners would quickly find yourself in a harsh PVP situation you cant handle.

As a matter of fact I am so annoyed with this topic I am going to suggest this to the ninjas: Assault frigs work great for this - signature tank your assault frig (LG halo implant it for extra LOL), find a nice missile boat with a small drone bay (Raven) and go loot some mission runners wrecks and wait for him to attack you. If they are smart enough to put drones on you, kill them. Once you killed a drone or two drones you are in total control. He does not have a point and web on, so the fight is in your control. Now hopefully you caught him when he is in the midddle of the mission and is taking damage. If so he is probably barely tanking the mission as it is, so the extra 200 dps you toss on him will quickly make them fold up int a nice player wreck you can salvage. Dont forget to post your LOLmails.

Gin G
The Helghast Corporation
Posted - 2009.08.27 17:15:00 - [42]
 

didnt you just "chime" in on the ninja salvage guide thread

Sig Sour
Posted - 2009.08.27 17:19:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Sig Sour on 27/08/2009 17:20:27
fight spam with spam?

Very Happy

and no it was just another river of tears thread

Skandrannon22
Posted - 2009.08.28 11:04:00 - [44]
 

See, I think the aggro flag is the answer.
Cuz then there's no reason for MRs to *****.
They know the risk.
The only folks I see really against this, are the ones who like the system as it is, and thats tilted as hell in the favor of lazy.
For all of you who say that folks are in there, wanting the MR to shoot them, then they should grow a pair and flip the can.. or... ohmigod, go fight folks who are looking for a fight, instead of someone who is mish-fitted.
Salv-thieves are, without a doubt, the biggest carebears in the whole game.
Loot for no risk, or a fight with someone who is not fitted for it, is less danger, than a freaking courier mission.

-Skan

4THELULZ
Posted - 2009.08.28 11:42:00 - [45]
 

Yes, please do this, I eagerly await the river of tears when that salvage frigate you shot at comes back in a pvp fit battleship and melts your carebearmobile.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2009.08.28 12:12:00 - [46]
 

Quote:
I believe a welcomed change to the 'rules' would be if salvaging someone else's wrecks would trigger the same aggression as stealing the loot.


I wonder how many of the missioners posting these ideas would actually man-up and shoot the ninja, and how many would still just cry on the forums.

Oh and btw, if salvging did produce a aggression timer, like you requested, the ninja would take your loot too. Ever think of that?

thatbloke
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.28 13:49:00 - [47]
 

It's not theft because how can you steal that which does not belong to anyone?

Salvage belongs to no-one until it has been salvaged from a wreck.

/thread.

Again.

Michal Sedziwoj
Posted - 2009.08.28 14:32:00 - [48]
 

Salvages as loot is worth some isk, and theft should give aggression EOT
Ad carebears and causing aggression, if someone wants can do this now stealing loot, why do not they do this?
Thus, aggression in the theft salvages does not have negative impacts.
But I think that the problem is not the ideology of the CCP, but the game engine.

Yifrosky
Posted - 2009.08.28 14:48:00 - [49]
 

Be careful what you wish for. Look at the abundance of can-flipping as a warning.

*Hint: If the salvages are a major part of your mission income, then protect it as you would protecting your own ship, which means keep your scanners open and scans the probes launched by possible ninjas.


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