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Grumples McGee
Posted - 2009.08.24 15:05:00 - [31]

Edited by: Grumples McGee on 24/08/2009 15:06:44
I sympathize with the OP, actually.

It's really common for people to gank in highsec largely because you have so much to gain and almost nothing to lose. You even get insurance money back. But even if you didn't, it would still be worth it to pop a good cargo ship. In the end it's harming the game and not really providing long term fun for anyone. How many 0.0 people want to go to highsec to pop cargo haulers, even though you know perfectly well that it's profitable? Yeah. Not many.

However, I object to these people being called "pirates". Call them "suicide bombers" instead. No self-respecting pirate would willingly get himself killed and we dislike that you besmirch our good name by associating us with these ridiculous people who basically blow themselves up to get you. That's for crazy people.

The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.08.24 15:12:00 - [32]

Originally by: knubba
so i get a cheap hauler and pack the hulk into it and head off. jumping manually this time. But i got hungry and decided i got to get some food. so i'm away 5 minutes and it's autopiloting in the meantime.
There's your mistake. You should've docked while you were eating, or just plain logged off completely. AP'ing while carrying something worth ganking you for is dumb regardless of whichever excuses you have.

High-sec space is safer, it's not safe.

Ming Yamato
Posted - 2009.08.24 15:40:00 - [33]

If high sec were to be completely safe, devs would have made pilots invulnerable instead of police (concord) to combat crime.

Cyprus Black
Posted - 2009.08.24 15:52:00 - [34]

If you were in a large city with cops roaming the streets, would you still walk down a dark and foreboding ally at night?

The correct answer if you're not a complete moron is no.

The same logic applies to EvE. Just because you're in high sec doesn't mean you're safe. Yes you are "safer", but it's never a 100% guarantee. Bad things can still happen to you as it did to the OP. Concord is there to punish, not to protect.

Don't auto pilot, don't play AFK, and pay ****ing attention.

Posted - 2009.08.24 17:41:00 - [35]

Why the hell would you repackage your Macks? that voids insurance. And you have two accounts, WTF were you thinking? AP each one, no one attacks ships unless packaged into cargohold or lulz (Jihadswarm). The only time I AFK pilot is in a fast frigate or empty hauler, then WTZ back.

Echo Gemini
Intergalactic Sunrise
Posted - 2009.08.24 21:06:00 - [36]

Originally by: Kayakaue
Edited by: Kayakaue on 24/08/2009 14:49:30
They are some big problem with suicide gank.

With 5 frigate and some basic skill and rigs. You have the possibility to destroy one hulk in high sec before the concord come.

Sorry but it's a big problem for the game play. Because you need about 3 month to pilot the hulk. And after that it's not possible for you to tank some stupid suicide gank with only three days.

If you try to mine with retriever or covetor good luck for you. It's impossible to tank 2 basic fregate.

Have you ever mined in .0?
Apply the same principles to your mining operation and you'll be just fine!

The pretty thing about suicide frigates is that they kill some of the macro miners!.. Don't get all frustrated ... Have fun! Shoot back! Laughing

Uronksur Suth
Posted - 2009.08.24 22:32:00 - [37]

This is stupid. Its called don't go totally AFK completely unprotected. Certainly don't go AFK when you already know the suicide gankers are out in force that day. Rolling Eyes

Admittedly suicide ganking is annoying as hell

Mike C
Posted - 2009.08.24 22:51:00 - [38]

Highsec nonconsentual pvp is not the problem, the people who complain about it are. OP is not a victim of highsec pirates, he/she is a victim of highsec griefers. Repackaged macks won't spawn from a destroyed hauler, so there was really nothing to gain. Lesson learned? DO NOT OVERLOAD HAULERS!

No but seriously, go get a Mastodon. More cargo, more tank, less gank incentive. This is working as intended, and to be perfectly honest CCP went too far as to make surviving concord an exploit TBFH.

Nas Daq
Posted - 2009.08.25 00:54:00 - [39]

Edited by: Nas Daq on 25/08/2009 00:54:44
Cry Moar!

I relish in you tears of anguish!!!

Like fellatio one cant get enough!

Chidori Yashima
Posted - 2009.08.25 01:56:00 - [40]

You're missing the point. Even if no insurance was rewarded they would still do it. High-sec suicide ganking is them having fun teaching "pubbies" not to haul expensive stuff through empire on auto-pilot and expect to be safe.

Don't auto-pilot, and if you are really worried, just sell your barges at your current spot and buy them again where you want to set up. And the reason they use the Brutix is because with specific fittings it can stay alive long enough to take down things like Exhumers, etc.

As you said, they undoubtedly scanned your cargo and saw you carrying Exhumers around.

Jaggati Khan
Posted - 2009.08.25 05:08:00 - [41]

Whilst i dont really like the idea of these suicide gankers and Im inclined to say why is it crime is always the easier way to make isk i have actually watched these guys at work - they have the patience of saints - i have seen them sit at a gate for well over an hour waiting for the 'right' victim - personally i think id ratrher scan down exploration sites Very Happy

Posted - 2009.08.25 09:26:00 - [42]

The problem is, the pirates dont just suicide gank on the good stuff but also on regular ships. and this is not correct.

It should cost at least a little money for them to loose their ship. and in this scenario that is not correct.

As a normal carebear, i insure my ship and also try not to loose it.

I pay the same ammount of insurance as a pirate.

a pirate looses his ship 5 times a day and i loose a ship 1 time per 2 months (to pirates).

so what needs to happen, just as irl... if you loose your ship too many times in a short timeframe, you should not be able to get an insurance on your ship again.

this way if pirates gank my ship worth 10 million, they at least loose 25 million. This would be more fair than the current situation.

however i aggree, suicide ganking should be part of the game but it should make little sense.

Sjors Boomschors
Posted - 2009.08.25 11:03:00 - [43]

I like this pirate strategy allot it is so effective. Maybe you should try it some time, or just become a pirate yourself.

Posted - 2009.08.25 12:22:00 - [44]

Hey guy. You forgot something.

They are some new player in EVE. And some basic miner in retriever can make nothing again this king of attack. You can not tank with a retriever or covetor.

Some succide gang attack you directly in the belt. It's impossible to tank or warp or make something.

It's not correct for these new players.After two or three attack in 2 days. I have had some new player stopping Eve.

Posted - 2009.08.25 12:26:00 - [45]

Edited by: Cybergoth on 25/08/2009 12:35:06
Simple solution; ccp release a skill and passive mod to block ship scanners. A rank 3 electronic skill and a medium mod would do the trick. That way if you want to afk haul you would need to train the skill and hi-sec pirates would have the risk of you being an empty hauler. More fun for the win.

Nobody likes being the victim of hi-sec piracy but that's no reason to prevent it. What would eve be like without evildoer's?

Quick edit: Blocking ship scanners prevents them seeing the ship tank as well as the cargo bay. Smuggling could become a viable trade then :P

Mike Voidstar
Posted - 2009.08.25 14:28:00 - [46]

I've not actually tried it but....

If you pack your stuff into containers, don't they just see a container when they scan you, or do they see what's inside it?

Also, Fly your ships to where they are going. For my own stuff, I just use battleships and cargo expanders--at least I will get the satisfaction of shooting back when it happens to me.

Irn Bruce
Posted - 2009.08.25 16:27:00 - [47]

Originally by: knubba
that's what we have lowsec and nullsec for.

This is the line that always gets me. Why do carebears always assume lowsec/0.0 is for pirates? It's not. It's for consensual PvP, or for people who don't mind risking getting into a PvP situation. Since piracy by its very definition involves shooting and stealing from people who do NOT consent to them doing so, surely highsec is in fact the CORRECT place for pirates to be?

Lowsec is not full of pirates, it's full of PVPers, and 0.0 is just full of more carebears and big blobs. For the profit hunting pirate, highsec is the only option, because that's where the targets are. Next time carebears tell pirates to go to lowsec, I suggest they listen to their own advice. True pirates must go where the targets are. And while the carebears hide in highsec, that's where the pirates will go.

Lucias Trask
Divine Power.
Posted - 2009.08.25 17:33:00 - [48]

Originally by: Kayakaue
Edited by: Kayakaue on 24/08/2009 14:49:30
They are some big problem with suicide gank.

With 5 frigate and some basic skill and rigs. You have the possibility to destroy one hulk in high sec before the concord come.

Sorry but it's a big problem for the game play. Because you need about 3 month to pilot the hulk. And after that it's not possible for you to tank some stupid suicide gank with only three days.

If you try to mine with retriever or covetor good luck for you. It's impossible to tank 2 basic fregate.

Thats crap, with a decent shield tank on my hulk i cant tank battleship npc spawn and any BC or smaller ship until they get concordokkened. With another 250 mil and some gist/pith shieled boosters you can go for a long long time.

But you never EVER wander around in a ship that requires you to activate modules and moves slower then icelandic glaciers on autopilot.

Hulks warp pretty fast for what they are, they can traverse long warps easily and can tank like a mother if set up right.

So no, entirely avoidable, and you can bring 5 three day characetrs in frigs to try to break my hulks tank and i will watch you all die to Concord... or hell my drones will probably be able to eat you if we are in lowsec or 0.0.

Posted - 2009.08.25 17:38:00 - [49]

Suicide ganks are part of the game, no matter how irritating they are. That said, you should not get insurance payout if concord kills you.

Jane Karan
Posted - 2009.08.25 19:08:00 - [50]

can I has your stuff?

Posted - 2009.08.25 20:22:00 - [51]

Originally by: Chi'kote
Suicide ganks are part of the game, no matter how irritating they are. That said, you should not get insurance payout if concord kills you.

correct, this is the point.

This means that it doesnt make any sense for pirates (pirate is a big word, the good word would be: "frustrated kiddy") to shoot out a 5 million worth hauler or miner unless they are really bored with the game and don't want to open their WoW subscribtion anymore. But it gives them the opportunity to grab some loot from a drunk corp hauler with billions of loot.

Posted - 2009.09.13 16:06:00 - [52]

Yeah, I'd go farther.

I'd say no insurance, and imposition of a fine. It *is* a criminal act, after all.

I've been ganked repeatedly in highsec in a retriever. You can't do anything about it except run off any time someone shows up in local (which they warp right on top of you since you are in the belt and they can warp directly into belt).

And trust me, gankers aren't doing this for profit. I was ganked just yesterday in a retriever. I lost what, maybe 8 million fully fitted? There was nothing for ganker to recover. Ganker lost a 60 million Armageddon. I was dumbfounded and messaged them to say, "Why would you do that?" Answer was; Its fun.

I fully support efforts to create a safe space. I think well organized high-sec ganks on high value targets are fine - people should protect valuable stuff. But if people are gonna gank "for fun" on nubs ... it should cost them ALOT. Just my opinion.

Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.09.13 16:35:00 - [53]

Edited by: BeanBagKing on 13/09/2009 16:36:09
Originally by: knubba
But i got hungry and decided i got to get some food. so i'm away 5 minutes and it's autopiloting in the meantime. When i got back all there was left was my pod.

That is where you went wrong. High sec does not equal perfectly safe, there is still risk involved. As one person put it, it's the equivalent of packing your backpack full of $20's and walking around the mall. Malls are supposed to be safe, it's not a dark ally, but the risk is still there, people don't do this. Furthermore you decided to take a nap on one of those benches in the mall (autopilot) and woke up to find someone had taken a bunch of your money. This shouldn't surprise you.

I'm not going to feel sorry for you because you admitted yourself that you set autopilot with millions in your hull. Thats where you went wrong.

Fullmetal Jackass
Posted - 2009.09.13 17:01:00 - [54]

Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 13/09/2009 17:14:23
Really easy solution to your problem.

Stop using autopilot.

Originally by: knubba
Btw i probably will never post here again. but if ccp decides to do this and want me back as a subscriber they have my mail adress.
Can I has your stuffz?

I do agree that insurance pay out for attacking someone is high sec is lame.

Komi Toran
Posted - 2009.09.13 17:46:00 - [55]

Good for you for deciding to stick it out. I was fortunate and had my run-in with suicide gankers at a time when a) I could only afford to fly around in frigates and b) had not discovered the Eve Forum, so couldn't make an ass out of myself publicly.

Agree that insurance should not be paid out for getting Concorded. No, it won't solve the problem, as there always will be some amount of suicide ganking (and there should), but the idea isn't to solve it, but to manage it.

Also, keep in mind, you now have kill rights on those guys. Happy hunting!

Lear Hepburn
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Transcendent
Posted - 2009.09.13 18:37:00 - [56]

It's high sec, not total sec.

Tish Magev
Nex Exercitus
Posted - 2009.09.14 12:17:00 - [57]


Pilot moves tech II mining barges in a tech 1 hauler.

Pilot goes AFK with autopilot on

Hauler gets suicided.

Pilot docks, buys new tech II mining barge, and new tech 1 hauler.

Pilot moves mining barges in hauler, goes AFK with autopilot on, again.

Hauler gets popped, again.

Pilot whines on forum

Sorry but pigeons learn faster. Simple solution would have been to dock up while you went for food.

Don't blame the game.

Yaggher Xanuben
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.09.14 12:57:00 - [58]

My reply will for sure get a reply a'la "Eve is not real life", but I think here this comparison suits fine.

You walk on the street. There are police patrols and you think "ahh, what a nice place to be, not one thief will get my wallet here..." Well, actually you will not think of crimes at all unless you're paranoid.
Then BOOM! you're dead. Some nasty suicide terrorist decided to blow himself up up just behind you. Tough luck.

Same in Eve. No place is safe. It's reality.

Actually, Eve is even safer:
1) you can dock
2) your ship doesn't explode on collision with other stuff
3) you will be brought back to life if you die

If anything, then up the punishment for suicide killers. One unauthorized kill in high sec = -5 standing instantly.

Posted - 2009.09.14 14:27:00 - [59]

I haul quite a bit of stuff around and the only time I've been highsec ganked was in a hulk ice mining. The one thing that seriously bothers me is the idea that with insurance they can use a brutix to attempt a gank and they lose nothing. There is no risk or loss to ganking accept the security hit.

So while I'm fine with people being able to do it. I agree there should ether be no insurance from concord kills or some sort of fine. Not both.

IE - fine them 100% the value of the ship they blew up. Someone has to cover the insurance cost. Now in the case of a ity 3 that is what 500k? However blowing up a Obelisk would be 700 mil. Bah I can already see wholes in my own argument cause who pays the fine when 5 people shoot... blah blah.

Bottom line the devs need to place slightly more risk into the equation. Its one thing for it to be "easy" to do. Its alright for it not not cost you much to do it(no isk risk). Its a whole other thing for it to be both. Why even call it highsec and have concord. It luls people into a false sense of security. If they are going to make it that easy just make it all 0.4 space and get it over with.

Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
Posted - 2009.09.14 15:11:00 - [60]

Edited by: Traidor Disloyal on 14/09/2009 15:16:23
Originally by: knubba
I cannot play this game any more after loosing 300+ mill in 3 hours in socalled "HIGH"security setting me back to the stoneage.

I had a character hauling three Caldari Navy BCUs 20 jumps thru High Sec. Unlike you I was prepared for the "suicide gank at a gate". What I should have done was use my Nighthawk to haul em, but I was lazy. The Nighthawk was 20 jumps away and my trusty Mammoth with two T2 invulns and three T2 medium Shield Extenders was right there. In a system between Jita and Amarr, that is notorious for suicide ganks, I was scanned and hit. They got me to 75% shield before Concord showed. I was warping to zero at each gate. They got me on the jump-in-side of the gate.

It's all about being prepared and learning lessons. I learned a lesson. I'm either using a warship or my Orca. In High Sec, unless someone knows ahead of time what you are hauling, you just have to survive up to 20 seconds before John Wayne and the 5th Cavalry arrives.

You screwed up. You should learn from this instead of placing your tail between your legs and running home to Momma.

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