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Sjors Boomschors
Posted - 2009.08.21 12:08:00 - [1]
 

New Idea: a “Ship Shutdown”.

What does it do?
* When activated it automatically shuts down all the ships systems to reduce radar detection.

Why do I / we need it?
* So that it becomes possible to hide your ship in, let say, an asteroid belt. This way it becomes almost impossible for a hostile ship to locate your ship.

A hostile ship can not detect the deactivated ship using radar unless it is in a 1 KM range. The hostile ship can only lock on the deactivated ship when it selects the ship manually from its viewpoint.

Selest Cayal
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
Posted - 2009.08.21 12:16:00 - [2]
 

This would be a for of stealth mode. you cant do anything but you cant easely be found either..
you mean kinda like a cloak but your ship will still be visible if you are on grid?

Kyax
Posted - 2009.08.21 12:50:00 - [3]
 

I like the sound of it. You could simply click your capacitor and select on/off. That said I am not sure it would offer anything as a game mechanic that cloaking does not. Obviously if they removed the prototype cloaking device from that game then it does become a very valid alternative to a cloak.

Tenchuu Khaan
Posted - 2009.08.21 13:01:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Sjors Boomschors
New Idea: a “Ship Shutdown”.
A hostile ship can not detect the deactivated ship using radar unless it is in a 1 KM range.

Erm... why should I not see a ship that is on my grid just because it's shut down.

Also, what would be the time penalty for shutting it down, booting it up?

El Liptonez
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2009.08.21 13:02:00 - [5]
 

This is called Cloaking Device.

Herlequin Virus
Posted - 2009.08.21 13:26:00 - [6]
 

This sounds like a mechanic to go AFK cloak to me

Marquis Jeladriel
Posted - 2009.08.21 13:31:00 - [7]
 

Reads to me like "unprobable in safe spot while still being online viewing local"

in short: very easily invisible without having to actually fit a cloak?

sounds slightly overpowered to me.

Amarrian ArchAngel
Posted - 2009.08.21 13:46:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Amarrian ArchAngel on 21/08/2009 13:46:23
Like the idea in principle, just need something sensible and not overpowered as someone has already mentioned.

You see this sort of thing all the time in Sci-Fi, silent running ftw.

AA

Anna Hansson
Posted - 2009.08.21 14:08:00 - [9]
 

Ok, 1KM is well, a troll, you could see a ship from 10-20 km with your eyes! (a battleship is around 500meters long)

So aside from that, let's see what kind of effekt shutting off the systems would have on diffrent sensors..

Magnometic: Well, your ship is still made of metal and produce a magnetic signature.

Gravimetric: Well your ship is still heavy (infact this would be rather difficult in an astroid belt due to the fact that all the astroids would interfere, but as it is doable when the ship is online, then there is no reason why it shouldn't be effektive when the ship is offline.

Radar; Your ship is still a large structure made of mostly metal, wouldn't have any effect on radar.

Ladar; basicly same as above but the fact that the ship isn't blinking and stuff would make it less difficult to locate.

No, this wouldn't be effective.

Amarrian ArchAngel
Posted - 2009.08.21 14:17:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Anna Hansson
Ok, 1KM is well, a troll, you could see a ship from 10-20 km with your eyes! (a battleship is around 500meters long)

So aside from that, let's see what kind of effekt shutting off the systems would have on diffrent sensors..

Magnometic: Well, your ship is still made of metal and produce a magnetic signature.

Gravimetric: Well your ship is still heavy (infact this would be rather difficult in an astroid belt due to the fact that all the astroids would interfere, but as it is doable when the ship is online, then there is no reason why it shouldn't be effektive when the ship is offline.

Radar; Your ship is still a large structure made of mostly metal, wouldn't have any effect on radar.

Ladar; basicly same as above but the fact that the ship isn't blinking and stuff would make it less difficult to locate.

No, this wouldn't be effective.


Fair enough on the 1km, you would probably bump into it, before you were able to see it... Razz Maybe 30-50km

Magnometric: Who says the metal the ship is made from is magnetic Laughing

Gravimetric: No gravity in space Razz

Radar: Fair enough, but you could hide amongst roids etc

Ladar: Isnt this Laser Detection? Class it as picking up the power signature of the ship, this in theory will be significantly reduced using the OP's suggestion.

AA

Anna Hansson
Posted - 2009.08.21 14:26:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Amarrian ArchAngel
Originally by: Anna Hansson
Ok, 1KM is well, a troll, you could see a ship from 10-20 km with your eyes! (a battleship is around 500meters long)

So aside from that, let's see what kind of effekt shutting off the systems would have on diffrent sensors..

Magnometic: Well, your ship is still made of metal and produce a magnetic signature.

Gravimetric: Well your ship is still heavy (infact this would be rather difficult in an astroid belt due to the fact that all the astroids would interfere, but as it is doable when the ship is online, then there is no reason why it shouldn't be effektive when the ship is offline.

Radar; Your ship is still a large structure made of mostly metal, wouldn't have any effect on radar.

Ladar; basicly same as above but the fact that the ship isn't blinking and stuff would make it less difficult to locate.

No, this wouldn't be effective.


Fair enough on the 1km, you would probably bump into it, before you were able to see it... Razz Maybe 30-50km

Magnometric: Who says the metal the ship is made from is magnetic Laughing

Gravimetric: No gravity in space Razz

Radar: Fair enough, but you could hide amongst roids etc

Ladar: Isnt this Laser Detection? Class it as picking up the power signature of the ship, this in theory will be significantly reduced using the OP's suggestion.

AA


Holy ****, no gravity in space, we are all DOOMED!!!

Honestly everything with mass (everything basicly) have gravity.

About the magnetic part, first of all not only magnets show up on those things, what you do simplyfide is to check for patterns and odd things in magnetic fields. Even something non magnetic would show up. And again, if the ship shows up when it's powerd on, it would if powered off aswell.

And Ladar is like Radar but using laser istead, has nothing to do with power sigs, simply shoots a beam of light and checks if it bounces back.

Re'taka
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.08.21 14:34:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Amarrian ArchAngel





Magnometric: Who says the metal the ship is made from is magnetic Laughing

Gravimetric: No gravity in space Razz

Ladar: Isnt this Laser Detection? Class it as picking up the power signature of the ship, this in theory will be significantly reduced using the OP's suggestion.

AA



I LOLED hard at these..

But no, this would be ineffective with the current methods of scanning in eve. in addition to that, this would obsolete the cloak, so there is really no point in having it.

Amarrian ArchAngel
Posted - 2009.08.21 14:37:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Anna Hansson

Holy ****, no gravity in space, we are all DOOMED!!!

Honestly everything with mass (everything basicly) have gravity.

About the magnetic part, first of all not only magnets show up on those things, what you do simplyfide is to check for patterns and odd things in magnetic fields. Even something non magnetic would show up. And again, if the ship shows up when it's powerd on, it would if powered off aswell.

And Ladar is like Radar but using laser istead, has nothing to do with power sigs, simply shoots a beam of light and checks if it bounces back.


I understand everything in our outer space has gravity, I was talking about EVE space. IF there was gravity there, the asteriods wouldnt be stationary would they? Razz

Fair enough on the magnetic, but surely that would pick up the asteriods aswell? Same with the Ladar?

AA

Kempeth
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.21 14:47:00 - [14]
 

Interesting idea but I'd modify this a little.

In shutdown mode:
* you cannot use any ship functions except "restart".
* you log out of all local chat rooms to reduce signal output (cannot see, cannot be seen)
* ship is no longer scannable through directional scanner but only with probes
* ship appears in overview when in same grid
* ship is harder to lock on due to the reduced energy emissions

It would also require some sensible transition times. It should be a balance between giving the pilot a chance to warp away if detected and giving the attackers a chance in catching the ship.

Removing the pilot from local would avoid the issue many pilots complain about in the cloaking discussions where one enemy pilot can threaten a whole system just by being online. Removing him from all chats is pointless since players would just use TS/Vent for communication...

As for appearing on the whole grid. It would be rather unrealistic if a ship could detect asteroids from 120km but not a ship.

Valkerias
Posted - 2009.08.21 16:25:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Kempeth

As for appearing on the whole grid. It would be rather unrealistic if a ship could detect asteroids from 120km but not a ship.
Asteroids tend to be considerably LARGER than ships not the reverse. Shutting down power to avoid detection seems like a good idea, logically. In application, I have to admit, I'm not sure.

Kempeth
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.24 08:50:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Valkerias
Originally by: Kempeth

As for appearing on the whole grid. It would be rather unrealistic if a ship could detect asteroids from 120km but not a ship.
Asteroids tend to be considerably LARGER than ships not the reverse. Shutting down power to avoid detection seems like a good idea, logically. In application, I have to admit, I'm not sure.

Yes but an asteroid is completely inert while a ship even in shutdown mode will create some limited emissions from life support, communications, ect...

Sjors Boomschors
Posted - 2009.08.24 11:10:00 - [17]
 

A few years back I played a space-sim called (Freespace 2). This game is still the best space-sim out there and it had the ability to shutdown your ship so it became undetectable.

Nemesis Factor
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.08.24 11:18:00 - [18]
 

Because your sensors DO pick up completely inert things such as asteroids, what if you could shut down NEAR an object so another ships sensors would not be able to differentiate one from the other. This way no one could warp to a safe spot and shut down. People can still find them with probes IF they aren't really close to something. Park your Pilgrim <1km from a roid and wait for a miner to show up. Unless he actually sees you with his camera drones, he'll go about his business.

I think there should be a targeting delay, same as the cloak, but without the drawback of losing sensor strength.

Rovan Stargazer
Caldari
Poecilotheria metallica
Posted - 2009.08.24 11:36:00 - [19]
 

Turning capacitor off would be great, and when you would turn it back on, it would start recharging from zero, so you would be sitting duck for a while.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.24 11:55:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sjors Boomschors
New Idea: a “Ship Shutdown”.

What does it do?
* When activated it automatically shuts down all the ships systems to reduce radar detection.

Why do I / we need it?
* So that it becomes possible to hide your ship in, let say, an asteroid belt. This way it becomes almost impossible for a hostile ship to locate your ship.

A hostile ship can not detect the deactivated ship using radar unless it is in a 1 KM range. The hostile ship can only lock on the deactivated ship when it selects the ship manually from its viewpoint.



Cloaking device and recons that way....

Daedalus II
Helios Research
Posted - 2009.08.24 13:01:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Nemesis Factor
Because your sensors DO pick up completely inert things such as asteroids, what if you could shut down NEAR an object so another ships sensors would not be able to differentiate one from the other. This way no one could warp to a safe spot and shut down. People can still find them with probes IF they aren't really close to something. Park your Pilgrim <1km from a roid and wait for a miner to show up. Unless he actually sees you with his camera drones, he'll go about his business.

I think there should be a targeting delay, same as the cloak, but without the drawback of losing sensor strength.


I think this sounds great.

So you can power down your ship at a safe spot, but you could then be probed out. However if you power down in an asteroid field or next to a station you can not be probed out. As the ship powers down all beacons in it is turned off so you will not be visible on overview and your bracket will not show either, so unless people look directly at your ship and see it in space it's invisible.
If you manage to see the ship however it should be targetable in space and the victim has to quickly power on his ship if he sees that someone have found him.
So while this would give people the possibility to hide without a cloaking device, defenders who know their system can go through all places where he could hide and visually scan them to find him Very Happy

Rawbin Hood
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.08.26 09:29:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Marquis Jeladriel
Reads to me like "unprobable in safe spot while still being online viewing local"

in short: very easily invisible without having to actually fit a cloak?

sounds slightly overpowered to me.


sounds right

Spud Mackenzie
Posted - 2009.08.26 12:59:00 - [23]
 

Ooh!

Tweak the Prototype Cloak, so having it active causes your Cap to dry up.

Then when you decloak, you have to rebuild from zero.


Done!

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.08.26 13:23:00 - [24]
 

Not the first thread about this idea. So let's reiterate my contribution to it:

Shutting down the ship causes:

- all modules to offline
- drone bandwidth drop to zero
- capacitor and shield recharge drop to zero
- directional scanner yields no results
- active probes disconnect
- max targets locked drops to zero
- no warp possible
- no maneuvering possible, max speed is zero

- you no longer show up on directional scan
- you no longer show up on any overview
- you can still be targeted and shot at should someone detect you



Powering the ship up again causes:

- a loss of 90% of the current capacitor
- all effects above with the exception of module offlining get reverted
- modules stay offline and need to be onlined manually using normal mechanics



This will make a protocloak more convenient than shutting off the ship as a ship with cloak is instantly operational while a shut off ship needs several minutes to online all modules it may need for combat.

In addition to the above penalties one could have the pilot's local channel switch into delayed mode as long as the ship is powered down.

A new skill could be introduced that reduces the capacitor need for onlining modules and the minimum capacitor level needed for onlining.

Sophie Malaster
Heavy industries Shinohara
ARTESANOS
Posted - 2009.08.26 16:50:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Sophie Malaster on 26/08/2009 16:50:35
To many people say the worse words about cloacking device. Maybe, this system in juction with other ideas it would be the solution for cloacking. To many people says, oh! i want take my cloack and cloack me for be afk for a long time. Ok, just desactivate your ship, it's like you doesnt exist ( of course you desactivate your local actualization) but if you want do a intelligent jobs, just use you cloack but using this sistem: LINK

I think it's perfect, because, if you want be afk, you can, and if your work is spying the enemy, you can do it with your cloack, but only for a short amount of time, because the enemy can scan you if you stay for a long time.

Later if you back to your computer, you active you ship again and all is normal.


 

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