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blankseplocked New station service: Tutoring
 
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Resourceful
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:29:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Resourceful on 19/08/2009 18:45:29
Just an idea I came up with, Tutoring, a station-only service where you pay for a tutor to increase your SP/hour and decrease your total time spent training on a paticular skill. Disclaimer: The examples or statistics i give may not be balanced or accurate. Their sole purpose is to illustrate the system i am proposing. Please tell what you think.

The tutor is paid per hour, and decreases time being trained by 10%-35%. The tutoring service ends when you undock, but continues even after you have logged off (as long as you are docked). For a (1x) skill, such as Mining, the tutor is paid less than to be training a Battleship Command (8x) skill. Lets say it costs 250,000 ISK to train Mining for one hour with a tutor, with a 15% sp/hour training bonus. (15% being a somewhat low-grade tutor) The price should go up about 50,000 ISK (x8 = 400,000 ISK + baseline price of 250,000 ISK = 650,000 ISK/hour) to train a Battleship skill. More efficient tutors, such as a 25% or 30% should cost much, much more.

Another factor in determining the price/hour for a tutor should be the characters overall Skillpoints. The reason for this is because the more Skillpoints your character has, the more difficult it is for your tutor to train him. The same system is inplemented in cloning. For a higher Skillpoint clone, the higher the price associated with that clone. This gives newer players the opertunity to get a decent tutor at a price they can afford, while, older players, tend to make more ISK and would be able to afford more expensive tutoring for themselves.

Tutoring can expand the somewhat shallow skill category, Learning. Access of the higher class tutors may require the skill, Tutoring, at IV or V. There should also be skills that increase the tutors training capability, maybe a skill called "Tutor Experience" adds 2% Training speed bonus from a tutor per skill level trained, and "Tutor Relations" decreases the cost of tutoring by 5% or so per skill level. Education (Tutoring) should be free for newer players. Players with 6,000,000 Skillpoints or below are subject to a free low grade tutor (15% SP/hour). This reflects on our society. Education is free in most countries till you are of a certain age. Very Happy

Mike Voidstar
Posted - 2009.08.19 19:00:00 - [2]
 

Here is the thing.

Other than the learning skills, no one is going to want to see the inclusion of any way to speed up training beyond what is already available.

The reason for this is simple. Unlike most other games where you have XP gained by grinding levels, in EVE, this increase in ability comes naturally through training. This means your basement dwelling teenagers and korean isk selling sweatshops don't get to completly dominate over the average joe.

In a few months, you can train your gunnery tree of choice to max, and equal the gunnery skills of a 5 year character. The 5 year guy is going to have a wider selection of ships and weapons to choose from (and will probably wax you because he has the perfect tool for the job at hand at all times), but you won't be out of the competition just because you are not a beta-snob, loot-whoring raider, or one of the idiots that supports the ISK-sellers.

Adding a way to get SP by spending money puts the ISK-sellers and their moronic consumers on top of the heap by default, because no one individual can match the sheer ability of a korean sweat shop for generating fake money in a game.

Chi'kote
Posted - 2009.08.19 19:11:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Mike Voidstar
Here is the thing.

Other than the learning skills, no one is going to want to see the inclusion of any way to speed up training beyond what is already available.

The reason for this is simple. Unlike most other games where you have XP gained by grinding levels, in EVE, this increase in ability comes naturally through training. This means your basement dwelling teenagers and korean isk selling sweatshops don't get to completly dominate over the average joe.

In a few months, you can train your gunnery tree of choice to max, and equal the gunnery skills of a 5 year character. The 5 year guy is going to have a wider selection of ships and weapons to choose from (and will probably wax you because he has the perfect tool for the job at hand at all times), but you won't be out of the competition just because you are not a beta-snob, loot-whoring raider, or one of the idiots that supports the ISK-sellers.

Adding a way to get SP by spending money puts the ISK-sellers and their moronic consumers on top of the heap by default, because no one individual can match the sheer ability of a korean sweat shop for generating fake money in a game.


Countless threads about this topic have surfaced lately, and amongst all the "I wanna buy skills" vs "no you stupid moron WoW freak" arguing, this is by far the best response as to why it should never happen.

I, sir, give you a golf clap Laughing

Resourceful
Posted - 2009.08.19 19:12:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Resourceful on 19/08/2009 19:25:55



Originally by: Mike Voidstar
Here is the thing.

Other than the learning skills, no one is going to want to see the inclusion of any way to speed up training beyond what is already available.

The reason for this is simple. Unlike most other games where you have XP gained by grinding levels, in EVE, this increase in ability comes naturally through training. This means your basement dwelling teenagers and korean isk selling sweatshops don't get to completly dominate over the average joe.

In a few months, you can train your gunnery tree of choice to max, and equal the gunnery skills of a 5 year character. The 5 year guy is going to have a wider selection of ships and weapons to choose from (and will probably wax you because he has the perfect tool for the job at hand at all times), but you won't be out of the competition just because you are not a beta-snob, loot-whoring raider, or one of the idiots that supports the ISK-sellers.

Adding a way to get SP by spending money puts the ISK-sellers and their moronic consumers on top of the heap by default, because no one individual can match the sheer ability of a korean sweat shop for generating fake money in a game.

That is why i had the idea to make the higher tutors insanely expensive. It also takes time to train to be able to use those tutors so it may just be a waste of money, because the ammount of training time to use them will not be surpassed by the time saved to train for a 20% or 25% tutor, rather by training a V skill for a 30% tutor.

At higher SP's you will be forced to spend more money, and to get a 30% sp tutor at 40,000,000 SP is A LOT of ISK and i guarantee if CCP does this right, almost all players will not pay that much for a 5% difference, unless they are a "Korean gold farmer" that wants to devote all of his income towards a tutor. The bot mining gold farmers would need to sit in station if they wanted to train with a tutor anyway...

Look at +5 implants, cost a ****load of time to train for, and they cost so much money. Alot of rich players will not get them because the tiny difference between a +4 and a +5, and the month training or so to use the +5, making it not very viable. (possibly after 7 years or more, it may start paying for itself)

Chi'kote
Posted - 2009.08.19 20:58:00 - [5]
 

A lot of people today want to be able to throw a lot of money around to insta train or decrease training time. The way I see it, there are trade offs. In some games, you skill up with XP. The advantage is you can gain a lot of XP quickly by throwing money and a LOT of time into it. So you can say "I'm gonna play 20 hrs a day for a week to skill up fast." The downside is, you HAVE to throw a decent amount of time in to skill up. Now in eve, you don't thow much money into skilling up (except for the elite level skills), and you don't have to put ANY time into playing the game to skill up. The downside is other than training other skills or purchasing implants, there is no shortcut to train faster. You can't simply say "i'm gonna play 20 hrs a day for a week to skill up real fast." But you can say "I'm gonna play like a normal average joe and not have to play for 20 hrs a day to keep up with the people that have nothing else going on in their life but sitting in the basement with some hotpockets." The eve training system is the great equilizer between hard core, non-stop gamers and the average joe, and it works.

Amarant'h
Posted - 2009.08.19 21:17:00 - [6]
 

I smell "powerleveling"

OrcephDrake
Posted - 2009.08.19 22:21:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: OrcephDrake on 19/08/2009 22:32:02
Edited by: OrcephDrake on 19/08/2009 22:30:24
Edited by: OrcephDrake on 19/08/2009 22:28:54
Edited by: OrcephDrake on 19/08/2009 22:27:32
Edited by: OrcephDrake on 19/08/2009 22:23:06
One of the biggest reason I started playing EvE was the skill system. I felt like I wasnt gonna lag behind my friends which aspire to be better the all Asians in MMOs. I however do feel the need to add more to the skill system to help out people reach there goals. The que was an AWESOME addition to EvE and so was the cert system though I believe they could use the cert system better by helping integrate it into the Que and what not.

I want your idea Resourceful i really do. But these guys have dam good points. Less see if we can work on your base idea some and see if possibly changing it might help counter there arguments.

Basically your goal is to help decrease skill time right? Well lets take some of the fundamentals of your idea and play with it? Eh?

Lets take away the cost! Why? Well the biggest augment is you shouldn't be able to throw money in the game to advance your characters skill. In order to help out hte little guy advance his skill faster we would need to balance this differently.

Another thing is the dock thing? So if u explain this right you have to be docked and u dont have to be playing? Well i say this is a little odd. Lets explore a tad different concept. What about drugs? Like pills that temporaly increase your shield management or whatever what about a pill that adds a bonus to a certain attribute or attributes for a while like an augmentation does except obviously temporary. I do like your agent/tutor idea. But I dont now how well u could add it to the game. The pill is an item and then we could add more skills to give an advancement feel as well as make it more advantages for newer players vs older ones. A pill well be inexpensive actually very inexpensive so money isn't an issue. The bonus will be... rrr.. not much.

I am stubbed though. THink about this. SHOULD we make it easier for newer players!? That isn't eve like at all! In fact How about make the bonus even accross the board much like learning skills. Every player can use pills to there max eff once they skill up new or old. Though pills very in costs and such they are mostly very inexpensive even for a newer player. But make it to were you only can us pills when logged on. So people that play more get rewarded for.. rrr.. playing. OH COURSE that brings in the whole "Korean crazy gamer thing" That eve doesnt have as much. YOu could just get these guys that set there logged in all day cuz they know they get that extra +2 to will power if they do.

*sigh* so many things to thank about for a feature. I am not even sure if it is truly needed. The only thing is that if eve keeps growing and expanding you can have some GODLY powerful charactors. Then again if they add 50% to items that are accessibly with little trianing and 50% to things that take more then 6 months then eve should stay even.

Mike Voidstar
Posted - 2009.08.20 18:50:00 - [8]
 

Bottom line is very simple.

It does not matter how much it costs. If it cost 10 billion ISK per skillpoint gotten for free, some asian sweatshop would generate millions of billions of Isk, and destroy the economy, because it would then be possible to spend real world money to advance your character in the only meaningful way this game has available.

That is the sad reality of the MMO world. The Gold/Item sellers destroy the economy of every game they touch, ultimatly driving away everyone but the idiots who are willing to pay them to do it. Most of the paid subscription games have fought this in a variety of ways over the years, and none have been actually successful in preserving their games. They all fall to the Elite Lewt *****s and the Gold/Plat/Item farmers and become a wasteland of macroes and idiots.

I'm uncertain why anyone would pay for a subscription to a game, and then pay someone else to play it for them...but that is what happens.

Kempeth
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.21 09:13:00 - [9]
 

It doesn't matter how expensive you make this! At any price such a system is either a complete waste of development resources or affordable enough to overthrow the market balance.

The rest has already been said enough times. If you want powerleveling go to WoW and pay some Chinese sweat shop to play the game for you.


 

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