open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Jump Freighters- WTH was CCP thinking?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7

Author Topic

IshiShemi
Posted - 2009.08.19 13:36:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: IshiShemi on 19/08/2009 13:36:38
Jumpbridge saturation and of course, dust are bigger causes for concern.

Actualy - how much dust can you fit in a JF?


Honest Nonlabor
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
Posted - 2009.08.19 13:42:00 - [62]
 

JF's die all the damn time.
They are not hard to kill, they melt to be honest. Just have to be fast and smart to catch them.

Lord Takani
Caldari
Dragon Highlords
Posted - 2009.08.19 13:50:00 - [63]
 

I thought carebears whined alot. Jesus, go get a fruit rollop and a juicebox and go sit somewhere else.

WeaponsHot
Posted - 2009.08.19 13:50:00 - [64]
 

What you would expect from a JF or even from a F when those ships don't have any kind of slots as support.

Both have reasonable structure but apart from that are not invincible and quite vulnerable during alignment for jumps.

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.08.19 13:56:00 - [65]
 

Someone post some jump freighter killmails plz.

Make the thread more interesting. Razz

Deus Letus
Chooch Inc.
Posted - 2009.08.19 14:03:00 - [66]
 

Last I checked JF have a 13 LY year range with max Jump Calibration Skills (about 60 days of training) So to get form point a to Point b usually means a stop over somewhere may be necassary. This may not always have a "deathstar" for cover. JF cna fit 0 mods so they are vulnerable while waiting for their cap to recharge befor they can make their next jump.

Oh and wans't the OP the same guy complaining about Falcons.

bff Jill
Posted - 2009.08.19 14:06:00 - [67]
 

all capital ships should be removed from the game. POS should be removed from the game, alliances should be removed from the game.

Ard UnjiiGo
Meatshield Bastards
Posted - 2009.08.19 14:07:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Honest Nonlabor
JF's die all the damn time.
They are not hard to kill, they melt to be honest. Just have to be fast and smart to catch them.


Neo Spartans pushing 29k total kills
1 JF Kill

No Trademark pushing 19k total kills
2 JF Kills

It's happening all the time all right.

2 PvP corps with nearly 50k combined ship kills and only 3 total JF kills telling Bellum to l2p. Rolling Eyes


Any rate, bottom line is that when logistics for 0.0 can bypass nearly all risk in low-sec it's bad for the game.

Flame on you hyperbolic PvPers and 0.0 drones.


Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.08.19 14:20:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 19/08/2009 14:25:22
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Mr Reason
Bellum's right though. All the instant hauling, jump bridges, carriers with big cargo holds they all make it too damn easy to move stuff around meaning that the game world becomes smaller, it becomes easier for an alliance to overextend and that means it's nigh impossible for smaller, unaffiliated entities to carve out their own little part of 0.0

It's too easy, and easy isn't better. Remove the long range/insta hauling and sure the current situation will be impossible to keep up, trying to do so would result is a massively overworked logistics crew but that's the point; instead of trying to keep the current borders and situations (which will be impossible) there'll be a massive reshuffling resulting in smaller entities with shorter reaches. making for more and different alliances, all able to compete and battle for their area of space.

As it is now, BECAUSE of being able to overextend and relocate assets fast over huge distances, you end up with the big, boring power blocks we have. I'm sure none of the current space holders would like those changes but in the end it would be better for the game.

..An almost equivalent post...

All valid points in a way, but addressing them means you change the game, dramatically. It no longer becomes the game people play today. That's an enormous risk to take and would take a heck of a lot of planning to get even remotely right. Hopefully the new sov changes will be a step in the right direction.

I can see where you're coming from, even if the OP really was a whine and you focus way too much on WTZ. I've long held the view that practically instant travel makes for a really difficult PvP environment - there's no logistics train to attack, no supply lines, and instant reinforcements almost anywhere (obviously these are generalisations). Unfortunately, CCP seem to disagree, because they gave carriers and others the ability to jump from A to B pretty quickly as their primary/only method of travel.

In features and ideas, one of the big issues discussions about how to improve 0.0 always seemed to hit was that major powers can mount large offensives/defenses rapidly and without (as much) need to deal with supplies, travel time, time to reinforce a battle, and so on.

Changing capital travel would have huge repercussions for the game. On the plus side, space would be bigger, moving goods from empire to 0.0 would have more windows of opportunity to attack, and mounting a multi-system offensive would actually require more strategy & preparation, because reinforcements aren't a cyno away. I don't really need to list the downsides, because a small legion of players used to the present sitation will for me Laughing

Xtreem
Gallente
The Collective
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.08.19 14:26:00 - [70]
 

for the cost id want some percs! also they can be killed :)

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.08.19 14:49:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

All valid points in a way, but addressing them means you change the game, dramatically. It no longer becomes the game people play today. That's an enormous risk to take and would take a heck of a lot of planning to get even remotely right. Hopefully the new sov changes will be a step in the right direction.

I can see where you're coming from, even if the OP really was a whine and you focus way too much on WTZ. I've long held the view that practically instant travel makes for a really difficult PvP environment - there's no logistics train to attack, no supply lines, and instant reinforcements almost anywhere (obviously these are generalisations). Unfortunately, CCP seem to disagree, because they gave carriers and others the ability to jump from A to B pretty quickly as their primary/only method of travel.

In features and ideas, one of the big issues discussions about how to improve 0.0 always seemed to hit was that major powers can mount large offensives/defenses rapidly and without (as much) need to deal with supplies, travel time, time to reinforce a battle, and so on.

Changing capital travel would have huge repercussions for the game. On the plus side, space would be bigger, moving goods from empire to 0.0 would have more windows of opportunity to attack, and mounting a multi-system offensive would actually require more strategy & preparation, because reinforcements aren't a cyno away. I don't really need to list the downsides, because a small legion of players used to the present sitation will for me Laughing


Quite frankly, these days any sort of negative post is branded a 'whine'. Particularly when it's not a popular idea and especially when the point of the post directly makes someone's playing more difficult if a change resulted from the post.

The invulnerable JF issue is a symptom of a larger problem. *Because* of CCP's very poor game design CCP as reduced the window of attack on targets to basically when they jump through a gate and try and warp off and when they undock and try and warp away to safety. Anything else is simply a mistake on the part of the pilot, and if the pilot knows what they're doing this almost never happens.

Anyway, very few people want the current travel situation to change because it'll make their life a little more difficult. Who cares if it's better for the game in the long run.

I think it was Greyscale that brought up nerfing carriers and he was flamed to hell and back? Quite frankly he was right, but people didn't want to have to put more effort into the game.

I get irritated with poor game design only because I know it can be better and the problems resolved in a very inexpensive fashion (with respect to coding, man hours etc.)

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2009.08.19 14:53:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: IshiShemi

Actualy - how much dust can you fit in a JF?




1mil to whoever works this out

Sub 7
Posted - 2009.08.19 15:05:00 - [73]
 

Posting in the only thread on the front page not about dust... oh wait.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.08.19 15:14:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 19/08/2009 15:21:53

I actually agree. Undefended freighters carrying ridiculous amounts of stuff through hostile space shouldn't be hard to kill. IMO, an alliance should have to put real effort into scouting and escorting their supply chain.

The solution is pretty simple...no cynos within 10-20km of a gate or station or POS.




Also, posting in a Bellum whine

Doggiee
Posted - 2009.08.19 17:26:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Originally by: Honest Nonlabor
JF's die all the damn time.
They are not hard to kill, they melt to be honest. Just have to be fast and smart to catch them.


Neo Spartans pushing 29k total kills
1 JF Kill

No Trademark pushing 19k total kills
2 JF Kills

It's happening all the time all right.

2 PvP corps with nearly 50k combined ship kills and only 3 total JF kills telling Bellum to l2p. Rolling Eyes


Any rate, bottom line is that when logistics for 0.0 can bypass nearly all risk in low-sec it's bad for the game.

Flame on you hyperbolic PvPers and 0.0 drones.



Another hit on the spot, good job sir, made me laugh and I totally agree with that. If an alliance doesnt know how to defend their supplies they should return to empire and farm missions. EVE is about MMO - MULTIPLAYER and TEAMPLAY, not a few bored dudes with 10 accounts and 3 years of skills but no ability to socialize.

Doggiee
Posted - 2009.08.19 17:31:00 - [76]
 

Quote:
Anyway, very few people want the current travel situation to change because it'll make their life a little more difficult. Who cares if it's better for the game in the long run.

I think it was Greyscale that brought up nerfing carriers and he was flamed to hell and back? Quite frankly he was right, but people didn't want to have to put more effort into the game.

I have to agree... again Shocked
I too agreed with Greyscales idea, but the angry mob - "dont touch my toys" - bashed logic to pieces and things remain as they are. Now the SAME people whine about BLOBS, GATECAMPS and overall BOREDOM. Hmmmm...

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2009.08.19 17:34:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Hmm, i could swear i've seen jump freighter kill mails Neutral


You're confusing 'possible' with 'common'.


Well, you're changing "near impossible" to "possible" Wink


Exactly. JFs should be possible to kill, not nearly impossible to kill. IMO they should be removed from the game completely, as there isn't any way to fix the flaws in the game design without making other ships (freighters) redundant.


That's what i said.

I've seen Jump Freighter killmails.
It's possible.
You said i'm ocnfusing possible with common.
Which means you're changing your original point of "near impossible" to "possible".

So effectively, you've eliminated your own post Laughing

Verx Interis
Amarr
SkyNet.
Posted - 2009.08.19 17:47:00 - [78]
 

Considering the number of ambushed JF's by many alliances during various evac's, I don't think they're invulnerable.

5 dreads can tank the deathstar and melt the JF before it makes it back into the bubble...

Doggiee
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:23:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Doggiee on 19/08/2009 18:25:36
Originally by: Verx Interis
Considering the number of ambushed JF's by many alliances during various evac's, I don't think they're invulnerable.

5 dreads can tank the deathstar and melt the JF before it makes it back into the bubble...

Yeah, you just need to have 5 dreads ready in lol-local "ambush" to kill one hauler. That realy improoves the gameplay and player expirience...Rolling Eyes

What a great way to pirate or cripple enemy supply-lines. Actualy You could climb the house of that JF pilot and cut his electric wire just after he jumps, I think there's a guy who would be willing to pay for stuff like this ...oh wait... Laughing

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:33:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Cyprus Black
Ever try to go through 0.0 in a standard freighter? Yeah, epic lulz and fail.
yes, have you??
it was back when it was hard for alliances to control more then a region cause it was harder to keep a logistics chain going. imagine that, ppl actually had to do freighter ops and make big gangs to escort the freighters to their destination..

this game has become way to easy and pretty risk free for most part.
jump freighters, rorqs etc have no real risk of dying unless the pilot is a idiot, and its also made logistics way to easy for alliances.

those of you complaining about the op just dont get the fact that this game has become pretty risk free for most big alliances cause of stuff like jump freighters

Doggiee
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:42:00 - [81]
 

Quote:
it was back when it was hard for alliances to control more then a region cause it was harder to keep a logistics chain going. imagine that, ppl actually had to do freighter ops and make big gangs to escort the freighters to their destination..

YES! That's how it worked and should be working right now. That would solve the low-sec boredom too and gave a chance for honest (lol) merc corps to earn their living escorting stuff or blowing someones competition to pieces. I guess it was much better fun than cyno-in/cyno-out.

But who cares here about FUN, it's the pwnage and grief that metters, right?

Fenix12
Doom Guard
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:42:00 - [82]
 

i've seen jump freighters ganked on pos's by RR BS gangs in 0.0, for the price that they are you shud have to put the effort into organizing a large gang to kill them in high risk situation, it would be stupid for a 4.5bil ship to get popped in low sec by scummy pirates camping a gate. Low sec pirates dont deserve nice kills, only noob badger kills Razz

Naga Elohim
Amarr
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2009.08.19 18:44:00 - [83]
 

To the OP,

So because you cant use a warp scrambler or a webifier that is CCP's problem?

You do know jump drives cant jump if they are pointed...you do know that right?

I don't get what this post is about, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!



Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
Posted - 2009.08.19 23:51:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Cyprus Black
Ever try to go through 0.0 in a standard freighter? Yeah, epic lulz and fail.
yes, have you??
it was back when it was hard for alliances to control more then a region cause it was harder to keep a logistics chain going. imagine that, ppl actually had to do freighter ops and make big gangs to escort the freighters to their destination..

this game has become way to easy and pretty risk free for most part.
jump freighters, rorqs etc have no real risk of dying unless the pilot is a idiot, and its also made logistics way to easy for alliances.

those of you complaining about the op just dont get the fact that this game has become pretty risk free for most big alliances cause of stuff like jump freighters

Not to mention insurance after which fleets of battleships and even capitals are almost free to lose.

Charlemeign
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2009.08.20 00:01:00 - [85]
 

Now tell us.... where did the bad Russian logoffski..

Rellik B00n
Posted - 2009.08.20 00:06:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Mr Reason
Bellum's right though. All the instant hauling, jump bridges, carriers with big cargo holds they all make it too damn easy to move stuff around meaning that the game world becomes smaller, it becomes easier for an alliance to overextend and that means it's nigh impossible for smaller, unaffiliated entities to carve out their own little part of 0.0

It's too easy, and easy isn't better. Remove the long range/insta hauling and sure the current situation will be impossible to keep up, trying to do so would result is a massively overworked logistics crew but that's the point; instead of trying to keep the current borders and situations (which will be impossible) there'll be a massive reshuffling resulting in smaller entities with shorter reaches. making for more and different alliances, all able to compete and battle for their area of space.

As it is now, BECAUSE of being able to overextend and relocate assets fast over huge distances, you end up with the big, boring power blocks we have. I'm sure none of the current space holders would like those changes but in the end it would be better for the game.



this tbh.

Usual people come out of the woodwork to ridicule the suggestion and since they are largely space-holding-alliances/JF-pilots/people-with-a-vested-interest-in-the-status-quo i dont blame them.

The people that annoy me are ones that apparently have no idea how to think for themselves and are giving it HAR HAR LOLS AT OP! Without considering things fully.

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.20 00:21:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: IshiShemi

Actualy - how much dust can you fit in a JF?




1mil to whoever works this out

Lots.

Now gimme 1m.

Helena C
Posted - 2009.08.20 00:24:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Johnathan Roark
by reading your sarcasm, i've came to the conclusion your using the wrong tactics. They are only hard to kill because they are expensive ships flown by experienced players (normally). Also, your point about cyno jammers does not make any since, they nor any other capital can cyno into cyno jammed systems.


How can someone be using the wrong tactics when the ships are literally invulnerable, save suicide ganking them in highsec? Unless someone makes a horrible mistake, you're never going to get one, since they're always within dock range or able to cyno out without being locked.

Crappy game mechanics are fail.


You sir fail to think out side the box.. The cyno operator is the weakest link.

Rotnac
Caldari
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.08.20 00:46:00 - [89]
 

You want to shrink the 0.0 powerblocks? Give us the ability to support more than 2-3 average alliance members per system. We need lots of space because you can't have more than a few people ratting per system before the revenue starts dropping like crazy. Once you can get a bunch of people in one system like the empire missions runners, and big alliances won't need lots of space.

As someone who now does some alliance-level logistics, the current setup involves bringing untold numbers of JF loads per week into 0.0. Nerfing JFs (or removing them) will destroy big alliances' ability to have lots of space, which crams lots of people into not much space, which means no one earns isk, and so we all quit.

Although that's probably what you want. Eh, I figure I'd actually just go into Jihading full-time at that point. I'd love a day when highsec was just as dangerous as 0.0, if not more so, just out of spite.

****, I've fallen for a ****ty troll again!

Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2009.08.20 00:51:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Kessiaan on 20/08/2009 00:51:30
As a JF pilot myself I can say with 100% certainty that Jump Freighters are NOT invulnerable - you just have to know when they're vulnerable and hit them then.

The usual method I've seen to kill JFs is to have a cloaked cyno alt hang out at POS jump beacon. JF jumps in, cyno goes up, over 9000 carriers jump in and you have a very dead JF. They're also vulnerable to being bumped off the station when they jump in to lowsec (they're pretty much immune on the jump out part due to the session change mechanic) and if you don't mind suiciding your tackler the above method with the carriers also works with a conventional BS fleet hanging out on the far side of a gate, this can also net you kills at a jump bridge, where the JF pilot is likely to be less vigilant as the system will be cynojammed and he knows he can't get hotdropped.

If that sounds like too much to you, I don't really care. They're capital ships, it should require as much effort and planning to kill one as it does any other cap.


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only