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blankseplocked [issue] T2 BPO's
 
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Dav Varan
Posted - 2009.08.19 16:31:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Dav Varan

I'm sure Lai Dai would give away there Cerberus BPO for example and then never bother selling any for profit.



Then you're a fracking idiot. No company is going to just "give away" anything that might earn them a profit - and if they think it gives them a competitive advantage, they won't sell it either, unless they think selling it offers them a larger advantage.

In your logical failspew above, Lai Dai would not only have NOT given away a Cerebus BPO, they would routinely sue the crap out of anyone that even so much as tried to invent a new one.

Dumbass.


Companies licence out technology all the time.
This is the equivelent of selling production rights.

Its rp breaking that while T1 stuff BPO's can be purchased T2 BPO's cant.
T3 BPO's should be available also, leaving production component aquisition as the Player contributed requirement.

Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
Posted - 2009.08.19 17:07:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Nian Banks

If that isn't acceptable, then increase the invented T2 BPC's Material Efficiency to a decent positive, such as ME25. Also increase the maximum possible runs for the T2 BPC's.



Before whining at least inform yourself.

Look the time needed to get a T2 BPO to ME 25.
Ans the advantages of doing that.

For modules it modify only the asteroid minerals requirement (and the same for the negative ME), so a negligible part of the cost.

For ships it is a bit more important, but anything above ME 5-10 is mostly a waste of time.




I highlighted and underlined the most important part that you conveniently ignored yet still quoted.

Just because the Material Efficiency is not a great benefit does not mean it shouldn't be improved. Much like one feather is insignificant but when you have enough, its a nice mattress. So it is for one small change amongst many, they stack up.

Still I personally believe that if people invented BPC's that came with more runs in them, their profit would go up nicely. As it should.
And if you make the ME to be a positive, then as you say ship production will benefit, but more importantly, its one less thing people can complain about when it comes to invention v's T2 BPO's.

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2009.08.20 01:44:00 - [33]
 

Sigh.

Been here, discussed that.

No.

/Ben

marie blueprint
Posted - 2009.08.20 02:53:00 - [34]
 

stop asking for a nerf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ask for a buff a way to get more t2 bpos!!...maybe useing bpos to try and invent a t2 bpo? with -6/-6 stats so you have to resurch them up to a positive?

Black Sunder
Posted - 2009.08.20 16:06:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: marie blueprint
stop asking for a nerf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ask for a buff a way to get more t2 bpos!!...maybe using bpos to try and invent a t2 bpo? with -6/-6 stats so you have to research them up to a positive?


supported.

Slave 2739FKZ
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.20 17:07:00 - [36]
 

No, giving more T2 BPO's are an horrible idea to break the production of T2 items and make it as profitless as T1 production.

Maybe what should happend is items not worth inventing being fixed? Also tune a bit the production times of certain items like ceptors, so BPO's can't cover the full demand, and it's fine.

Kasi Kasai
Posted - 2009.08.20 20:18:00 - [37]
 


hired goon
Posted - 2009.08.21 13:26:00 - [38]
 

Exclamation

spear zero
Posted - 2009.08.21 21:43:00 - [39]
 

wtf you do next ? free titan skills for every noob ? i mean t2 was always expensive isk wise and skill wise, not that you have some skills now u wany to have oportunity to cheap produce ? cmon like if real world we have rich ****s and poor kids but its gonna stay that way, we got a lot by invention now you wanna more ? u got decent iskies in empire you got safe wars in empire ( FW) cmon now u want t2 to be moved away from 0.0 ? i mean in few months you should ask that t2 stuff will be build with tritanium only cmon, put some efford in this game and stop whinning like a *****es cause its really sad, since i joined this game ive achived more and more but now game with those all fixes adds etc got really boring and there is to much monotony in it, every thing is getting ballanced, few more fixed and 10 yrs old players will be balanced with ****ing noobs, you may get more new players but even more old quitting, more tears plz how hard this game is ******s

Blackjack Turner
Caldari
State Protectorate

Posted - 2009.08.22 00:50:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: I SoStoned
As a T2 producer using both BPOs and Invention, I argue that this entire complaint holds no water whatsoever.

With one of my BPO's I can build, at most, 1127 units of a particular item a month using 1 manufacturing slot.
Inventing that same module allows me to use the entire available manufacturing capacity of my local station with several accounts. Granted the waste is a little steep at 50%, and it takes me twice as long to build each unit, but at the end of the same month I can produce 15000 units of that item (again, using several characters).

Using just 1 account I can produce 1127 with one build slot and 4300 with my other nine build slots.

The net return is that my Invention far, far outpaces my BPO production and returns me more profit over time than that BPO.



This "single T2 BPO, only one manufacturing slot argument" is bull. Anyone reading it knows it. You can make multiple max run copies and be making 30+ runs using alternate characters, and each copy will have the same ME/PE as the original. If you are indeed only using the original for a single factory slot you're being silly. Due to the much better ME/PE on your T2 BPO you can manufacture that item at far less cost than the inventor of the same item who uses a T2 BPC.

darius mclever
Posted - 2009.08.22 01:19:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Blackjack Turner
Originally by: I SoStoned
As a T2 producer using both BPOs and Invention, I argue that this entire complaint holds no water whatsoever.

With one of my BPO's I can build, at most, 1127 units of a particular item a month using 1 manufacturing slot.
Inventing that same module allows me to use the entire available manufacturing capacity of my local station with several accounts. Granted the waste is a little steep at 50%, and it takes me twice as long to build each unit, but at the end of the same month I can produce 15000 units of that item (again, using several characters).

Using just 1 account I can produce 1127 with one build slot and 4300 with my other nine build slots.

The net return is that my Invention far, far outpaces my BPO production and returns me more profit over time than that BPO.



This "single T2 BPO, only one manufacturing slot argument" is bull. Anyone reading it knows it. You can make multiple max run copies and be making 30+ runs using alternate characters, and each copy will have the same ME/PE as the original. If you are indeed only using the original for a single factory slot you're being silly. Due to the much better ME/PE on your T2 BPO you can manufacture that item at far less cost than the inventor of the same item who uses a T2 BPC.


and now please check the stats how long it takes to make a max run copy of a t2 bpo. to help you a bit. it is insanely long. compared to e.g. copying t1.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.08.22 01:33:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Blackjack Turner
Originally by: I SoStoned
As a T2 producer using both BPOs and Invention, I argue that this entire complaint holds no water whatsoever.

With one of my BPO's I can build, at most, 1127 units of a particular item a month using 1 manufacturing slot.
Inventing that same module allows me to use the entire available manufacturing capacity of my local station with several accounts. Granted the waste is a little steep at 50%, and it takes me twice as long to build each unit, but at the end of the same month I can produce 15000 units of that item (again, using several characters).

Using just 1 account I can produce 1127 with one build slot and 4300 with my other nine build slots.

The net return is that my Invention far, far outpaces my BPO production and returns me more profit over time than that BPO.



This "single T2 BPO, only one manufacturing slot argument" is bull. Anyone reading it knows it. You can make multiple max run copies and be making 30+ runs using alternate characters, and each copy will have the same ME/PE as the original. If you are indeed only using the original for a single factory slot you're being silly. Due to the much better ME/PE on your T2 BPO you can manufacture that item at far less cost than the inventor of the same item who uses a T2 BPC.


and now please check the stats how long it takes to make a max run copy of a t2 bpo. to help you a bit. it is insanely long. compared to e.g. copying t1.


And even T1 copying takes about 5x as long as producing the same number of runs by straight manufacture.

Kaito Haakkainen
Posted - 2009.08.22 12:53:00 - [43]
 

Supported.

Removal would level the playing field on t2 research and manufacture. True, many t2 BPO owners will take a loss on their investment, they won't be the first or last to lose profit to an act of "God" and have been aware of the possibility of their removal since the end of the lottery. Such a small number of people controlling even 8% of the Cov Ops Cloak market via the existence of a mechanic unavailable to the majority is a mockery of EVE's much lauded player controlled market, let alone the much higher figures seen for other products.

I'm a firm believer that opportunities should be equal and that skill and dedication should be what sorts the wheat from the chaff.

Volitaire
Posted - 2009.08.22 13:06:00 - [44]
 

No, go to another market and stop crying.

Kaito Haakkainen
Posted - 2009.08.22 13:52:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Volitaire
No, go to another market and stop crying.


I'm currently involved in neither invention or t2 manufacture, I'm a margin trader pure and simple, I go where the money is. My opinions on this matter are driven by my beliefs regarding good game design and equality amongst players. If there were an effectively indestructible combat item that provided a clear PvP advantage while being unobtainable by the majority of players there would be uproar and it's removal would be almost unanimously agreed. I don't see why competition between players in another format shouldn't be held to the same standard.

Though I must say your fine logic and wit are very convincing.

wootonius
Caldari
Lyra Enterprises
Posted - 2009.08.25 03:45:00 - [46]
 

too many people/isk behind keeping the current system in place, but why not shake things up some more. YARRRR!!

I SoStoned
Caldari
Posted - 2009.08.25 10:16:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Blackjack Turner
Originally by: I SoStoned
As a T2 producer using both BPOs and Invention, I argue that this entire complaint holds no water whatsoever.

With one of my BPO's I can build, at most, 1127 units of a particular item a month using 1 manufacturing slot.
Inventing that same module allows me to use the entire available manufacturing capacity of my local station with several accounts. Granted the waste is a little steep at 50%, and it takes me twice as long to build each unit, but at the end of the same month I can produce 15000 units of that item (again, using several characters).

Using just 1 account I can produce 1127 with one build slot and 4300 with my other nine build slots.

The net return is that my Invention far, far outpaces my BPO production and returns me more profit over time than that BPO.



This "single T2 BPO, only one manufacturing slot argument" is bull. Anyone reading it knows it. You can make multiple max run copies and be making 30+ runs using alternate characters, and each copy will have the same ME/PE as the original. If you are indeed only using the original for a single factory slot you're being silly. Due to the much better ME/PE on your T2 BPO you can manufacture that item at far less cost than the inventor of the same item who uses a T2 BPC.


Not particularly bright, are you?

While I'm copying the BPO (which takes 2 to 3 times *longer* than it takes to produce a manufactured good) I'm not manufacturing with it... in other words, it cuts my production on that BPO by over 60% when I finally do start producing all of those BPCs.

And T1 BPOs (for the most part) copy at considerably faster than the time required to produce with one, and you can purchase multiple originals.

So, my argument stands.
T2 BPOs are not ISK prints like they once were. Some are still up there, but nothing like they once were. By the large the margins, due to invention, have come down massively. Only the broken moon minerals mechanic is keeping them inflated (and even so meta-4 items are now often far more expensive than T2).


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