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Kesper North
Caldari
Gentlemen of Means
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.08.24 10:12:00 - [781]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 20/08/2009 04:23:26

Can anyone-- anyone at all-- explain why having a FPS Eve-influencing console game is unacceptable, but a PC version with its vast potential for world-altering CHEATING is just fine?

I haven't seen anyone even attempting to address this angle.


Because if this goes through, playing DUST will become mandatory for participation in spaceholding 0.0 alliances in much the same way that, oh, I dunno, being able to use TS is now.

And I am not buying a TV and a console. Furthermore, I spend enough time on this game...

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.08.24 10:17:00 - [782]
 

Originally by: Kesper North
if this goes through, playing DUST will become mandatory for participation in spaceholding 0.0 alliances
How so?

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.24 10:21:00 - [783]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Tamahra
4players.de talked to Petursson after the show, asking why there will be no PC-Version. Petursson smiled and stated, that he cannot comment on it right now. The only thing he can say at the moment is that there will be ca console version.

Now that makes sense. I'd guess he is required by contract with the console corps to keep quiet about a pc version, lest people may be inclined to skip the console and wait for the pc version, reducing revenue for the console.Cool
/this

Like I have said in other threads ccp already has a guaranteed pc playerbase already set up and wanting to buy into this so there is no need to publicly hype it atm. The console crowd is another demographic altogether so it will need ccps entire marketing focus to pull it off. Also why in blazes would ccp wait till fanfest to give anymoar info out if it was not coming out on pc too? If it was console only they would only have a small presentation to tell eve players about the role it will have in sov whilst the main dust 514 website gives out the games exact details. Not exactly something eve players at the fest would be clapping Hilmar on the back about about for holding back info on till then. ugh

Kesper North
Caldari
Gentlemen of Means
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.08.24 10:26:00 - [784]
 

Originally by: Tippia
How so?


"We are at risk of losing SOV4 in TVN-FM, mandatory CTA console op in DUST at 1600 ET."

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.08.24 10:32:00 - [785]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 24/08/2009 10:35:51
Originally by: Kesper North
Originally by: Tippia
How so?
"We are at risk of losing SOV4 in TVN-FM, mandatory CTA console op in DUST at 1600 ET."
…and so they lose all their members, and thus their space. The alliances who forego this silly rule will be able to shore up their numbers and vastly outnumber their narrow-minded enemies — in space and on the ground — and steamroll anyone who refuses to outsource.

That said, I'll admit I didn't read your post thoroughly enough, because I read it as "Dust will be mandatory for space-holding alliances".

Either way, my question remains: how so?

Biggi Raeubertochter
Minmatar
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.08.24 10:57:00 - [786]
 

Edited by: Biggi Raeubertochter on 24/08/2009 10:57:17
Originally by: Tippia
I read it as "Dust will be mandatory for space-holding alliances". Either way, my question remains: how so?


i think in order to have GOOD ground troops where you know what they are doing, its mandatory to know who they are and have them fight exlusively for YOUR alliance only.

But if they are from an external community or if they are people from the own alliance, doesnt matter so much i think.

But how the devs gonna avoid that certain dust players firstly fight for this alliance and the next battle they fight for another, is a secret i guess....

DaXes Halleck
Amarr
RED CHILI
Posted - 2009.08.24 11:23:00 - [787]
 

Originally by: Biggi Raeubertochter

But how the devs gonna avoid that certain dust players firstly fight for this alliance and the next battle they fight for another, is a secret i guess....


Mercs fight for the one paying the next pay check.. so perhaps nothing ?

So alliances would need their own loyal troops, perhaps augmented with mercs when needed ?

I don't think Dust will be the utterly deciding factor in sov, more like a input where you would need stronger input from other factors if you don't have planet control from Dust..

So less of a POS spawn if you have planet control.. if you do both, planet loss won't mean as much, or keep sov even if some POSes are shot down...

Kalo Reglia
Posted - 2009.08.24 11:38:00 - [788]
 

so I can carebear it up in empire, then take over a planet in 0.0 with my ground troop?

how can that be bad in any way ? better save up for two subscriptions Laughing

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.08.24 12:25:00 - [789]
 

moar screenshots, those are dust screenshots of the last fanfest (all links go to my photobucket album):

Linkage
the planetary interaction selection screen (Pator I)

Linkage
closeup on the description for pator I

Linkage
closeup on the description for the selected continent

Linkage
early closeup view of one of the tanks we see in the gamescom video

Linkage
outdoor combat scene, with some industrial looking structures

Linkage
outdoor combat scene, next to some buildings

Linkage
buggy driving on a street

Linkage
combat scene in the outoors


CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.08.24 13:12:00 - [790]
 

Originally by: Tamahra
see original post, ive added it there with links:

What about Dust on the PC?
Two different correspondents at the gamescom have questioned Petursson about the platforms its being developed for. The first, from gamespot.com received the following answer:

We questioned Petursson about the platforms the game is being developed for, as well as subscription details, but he declined to comment at this time. But it was confirmed that the game was being developed for "current generation hardware."

The second report, from 4players.de:

4players.de talked to Petursson after the show, asking why there will be no PC-Version. Petursson smiled and stated, that he cannot comment on it right now. The only thing he can say at the moment is that there will be ca console version.



Thats pretty much old news, we read this before, so it is still console only and no mentions of a PC version in the future.

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.08.24 13:23:00 - [791]
 

If what many fanbois tell will be true and CCP announces a PC version at fanfest and both games have a good influence system in both directions, and the planetary interaction system is for EVE and we get WIS to interact with the mercs, then I will be happy and you can all tell me I told you so and make fun of me all you like, I won't care, because we will have an awesome game.

I doubt it tho.

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.08.24 13:26:00 - [792]
 

Originally by: CyberGh0st
it is still console only and no mentions of a PC version in the future.



I personally hope there will be a pc version, but ill buy the console version too if theres only that.

But look at today´s technology. Current Consoles can also be mounted with mouse and keyboard, so technically there would be no reason to not make a pc version too, other than maybe cheating. Cheating IS an issue on pc-fps games. To prevent cheating, most stuff and calculations would have to happen on their servers, and not on the client side. I have no idea if this would be possible technically.

The only non-technical reason they would not release a pc version is... umm.... maybe... if they have a contract with the console developers that doesnt allow them to make a pc version.


Re'taka
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.08.24 13:32:00 - [793]
 

Originally by: Tamahra
Originally by: CyberGh0st
it is still console only and no mentions of a PC version in the future.



I personally hope there will be a pc version, but ill buy the console version too if theres only that.

But look at today´s technology. Current Consoles can also be mounted with mouse and keyboard, so technically there would be no reason to not make a pc version too, other than maybe cheating. Cheating IS an issue on pc-fps games. To prevent cheating, most stuff and calculations would have to happen on their servers, and not on the client side. I have no idea if this would be possible technically.

The only non-technical reason they would not release a pc version is... umm.... maybe... if they have a contract with the console developers that doesnt allow them to make a pc version.




To be fair, and I'm only saying, its not like you cant run console games on a PC, it just takes one hell of a pc, and the right software, now is that legal? Who knows, probably not.

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.08.24 14:12:00 - [794]
 

Edited by: CyberGh0st on 24/08/2009 14:12:07
Originally by: Tamahra
Originally by: CyberGh0st
it is still console only and no mentions of a PC version in the future.



I personally hope there will be a pc version, but ill buy the console version too if theres only that.

But look at today´s technology. Current Consoles can also be mounted with mouse and keyboard, so technically there would be no reason to not make a pc version too, other than maybe cheating. Cheating IS an issue on pc-fps games. To prevent cheating, most stuff and calculations would have to happen on their servers, and not on the client side. I have no idea if this would be possible technically.

The only non-technical reason they would not release a pc version is... umm.... maybe... if they have a contract with the console developers that doesnt allow them to make a pc version.




Cheating pretty much happens on private servers mostly. Most of the servers in FPS are private.

And even then, during the time I played Unreal Tournament ( all versions including the latest one ) I have seen very little cheating OR they were pretty bad even WITH the cheats, as I was able to compete.

However it won't be on some private server now, it will be a MMOFPS served by CCP, go check planetside, there is not much cheating there ( at least there was not much when I played it ).

Of course if you look at indie games like Darkfall with like no security measures at all and poor coding, then yah, you can be afraid of cheats.

Cheating is only a minor issue when you talk about a FPS MMO on company servers with some good support.

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.08.24 14:21:00 - [795]
 

Originally by: CyberGh0st

Cheating pretty much happens on private servers mostly. Most of the servers in FPS are private.

And even then, during the time I played Unreal Tournament ( all versions including the latest one ) I have seen very little cheating OR they were pretty bad even WITH the cheats, as I was able to compete.

However it won't be on some private server now, it will be a MMOFPS served by CCP, go check planetside, there is not much cheating there ( at least there was not much when I played it ).

Of course if you look at indie games like Darkfall with like no security measures at all and poor coding, then yah, you can be afraid of cheats.

Cheating is only a minor issue when you talk about a FPS MMO on company servers with some good support.



hahaha you knew where i was going when i mentioned the possible issue of cheating, i was exactly thinking of darkfall as well. But you´re right, they got pretty poor coding and weak security systems implemented.

I think poor coding wont be the issue with dust514 Rolling Eyes

however, then there is no possible technical reason they wouldnt release it for the PC.

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.08.24 14:50:00 - [796]
 

Edited by: CyberGh0st on 24/08/2009 14:57:33
Edited by: CyberGh0st on 24/08/2009 14:56:16
Originally by: Tamahra
Originally by: CyberGh0st

Cheating pretty much happens on private servers mostly. Most of the servers in FPS are private.

And even then, during the time I played Unreal Tournament ( all versions including the latest one ) I have seen very little cheating OR they were pretty bad even WITH the cheats, as I was able to compete.

However it won't be on some private server now, it will be a MMOFPS served by CCP, go check planetside, there is not much cheating there ( at least there was not much when I played it ).

Of course if you look at indie games like Darkfall with like no security measures at all and poor coding, then yah, you can be afraid of cheats.

Cheating is only a minor issue when you talk about a FPS MMO on company servers with some good support.



hahaha you knew where i was going when i mentioned the possible issue of cheating, i was exactly thinking of darkfall as well. But you´re right, they got pretty poor coding and weak security systems implemented.

I think poor coding wont be the issue with dust514 Rolling Eyes

however, then there is no possible technical reason they wouldnt release it for the PC.



I agree, but if CCP would release a PC version, then they made a communication blunder by not telling us. Unless they have to release exclusively, however it is already confirmed afaik, that it would go on both PS3 and XBOX360, or am I mistaken?

If they have to release it later, like 3-6 months later, then it would suck as well, just not as bad.

It's like someone else said, what will CCP be telling to all the hardcore EVE Online players that only play on a PC? Still I doubt they will reveal a PC version there.

Either way it will be healthy for me to take a break from EVE, it's just that, this is pretty much the last mainstream sandbox out there, if this one goes sour ... well there is still Ryzom, but that is so small and fragile currently, it is hard to say if it will still exist next year. Whereas with EVE you could pretty much count on it to still be there the next 5 years.

Ehranavaar
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.24 16:27:00 - [797]
 

thinking dust winds up in the eve client somewhere down the road.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2009.08.24 17:33:00 - [798]
 

Originally by: CyberGh0st

Cheating pretty much happens on private servers mostly. Most of the servers in FPS are private.



Cheating would be a concern on PCs, even the so called cheat protectors don't do anything. Those things run in user mode, a lot of the cheats run in kernel mode, far below what user mode software can detect.

Now it could be, though I'm doubting it, that Dust is something that won't care about all sorts of hacks. For instance, Eve could care less if you've got an aim bot, what's the point. There was Bacon of course and macros are hard to overcome, but ... If it is more of a third person RTSish sort of game play, like Eve sorta kinda is, then ... Maybe hacks don't matter as much. Thing is, we don't know. Even though the game play showed what looked very FPSish, that doesn't mean the camera wasn't on some half autonomous soldier in "FPS view".

Maybe dust is more RTS like, let's say, a player controls a squad of 5-10 soldiers, and he can give them orders and they have fields of fire, and it's all about shoot and scoot, and the lil soldier guys are semi-autonomous kinda like Total War guys are. Who knows, but that would be less cheatable than the typical PC FPS.

... But, vid sure didn't look that way did it?

Ysabelle nKataros
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.24 17:34:00 - [799]
 

Edited by: Ysabelle nKataros on 24/08/2009 17:35:03
Does anyone else think Dust has been designed as an additional ISK sink for EVE?

Plus, my money is on the RTS side of Dust being like Battlezone II.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2009.08.24 17:55:00 - [800]
 

Originally by: Ysabelle nKataros

Does anyone else think Dust has been designed as an additional ISK sink for EVE?



Well, that depends ... Suppose no more need for POS to claim Sov. That's a big ISK sink removed. Also, what if players make all the stuff soldiers use. Alliances pay the Dust peeps, and Dust peeps buy the stuff Eve people make and mine. The Sink there is stuff blowing up, but that would be a capital sink, though not necessarily an ISK sink. That ISK would flow around the economy. BPOs to make all that stuff and maybe some other costs to make that stuff would be a sink. My guess, bottom line, is for an alliance, it'll be about the same as it now.

LOL, what I hope we don't see is a huge convoluted building tree for stuff. I can make a battle ship that is hundreds of meters long now very easily. I would hate to see to build a tank it takes a BPO, a secret chip from some rare rat and 603 uber-trit-freak-a-roids from the depths of pirate hell.

oil
Double-L
Posted - 2009.08.24 18:02:00 - [801]
 

Edited by: oil on 24/08/2009 18:03:22
if they deny the longtime eve players the ability to take part in dust (i wont buy a fecking console just for this) then it might become a flop. might also be that some eveplayers lose interest in eve because there are areas where they cant acces.
i was excited about the news because thats what i wanted in eve. leaving the spaceship thing behind if i want. now i am disapointed.

Biggi Raeubertochter
Minmatar
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.08.24 19:02:00 - [802]
 

Originally by: oil
might also be that some eveplayers lose interest in eve because there are areas where they cant acces.


this could become an issue, i agree

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.08.24 19:17:00 - [803]
 

Edited by: Tamahra on 24/08/2009 19:18:56
well, according to eurogamer.de CCP has secured the trademark dust514 for xbox360, ps3 AND PC.

Linkage

Like, they could have secured the trademark for MAC too. But its clearly for PC. Does this mean anything? Dunno.

As i have said in the other thread, i cannot see any reason why it would harm to release it for the PC as well.

T'san Manaan
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.24 21:01:00 - [804]
 

I think CCP is more of the mindset that we got it working for the console but the PC port isn't quite up to par yet so we won't make any announcments until we know for sure.

They have dodged all questions about it bieng released for the PC so I would say they don't even know yet.

Cassendra
Caldari
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
Posted - 2009.08.25 00:34:00 - [805]
 

Originally by: Cornaris
Linkage

Atmospheric flight, battles happening on the ground..
This was 3 years ago, they've been working on dust for 3 years..

I can see 'The Vision(™)' at work.


Nae that was more like 5-6 years ago. Dusk must have started a bit later.

Tbh this might be the best solution. A shooter is a lot better for ground-based combat than an RP system. Show some trust. Everyone thought Eve was dead already in 03 and look at where it is now!

Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2009.08.25 01:05:00 - [806]
 

Soo I think there are lots of types of planets. City planets and Ice planets and soo forth. wonder with my vehicles are useful for and janitors and salves would fight for me. Now I know what those exotic dancers are for.

Xen Gin
Silurian Operations
Posted - 2009.08.25 01:29:00 - [807]
 

"There is hope for a Dust 514 on the PC's"

Yeah, with an Emulator!

Boo-ya! ugh

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.08.25 08:40:00 - [808]
 

Originally by: Xen Gin
"There is hope for a Dust 514 on the PC's"

Yeah, with an Emulator!

Boo-ya! ugh


Not even that, seems there are some xbox and playstation emulators, not sure if they work well, but there are no xbox360 or PS3 emulators ( or I can't find them ;p ).

I'mSoFatNeedDrones
Posted - 2009.08.25 08:57:00 - [809]
 

I'd imagine that Dust 514 will eventually be implemented in to EVE online. likely after the addition of WIS. i cant see it being too likely that CCP would want to split game play too much. It is unrealistic to think that EVE would ever work on consoles and i would imagine (and hope) that dust 514 on console is simply only 1 half of a future eve update.

I have a 360, and would love to play Dust, but at the end of the day FPS always work better on the PC (with the possible exception on of a few i won't bother mentioning so this doesnt turn in to a slag off between fan boys ^^). I doubt i'd be willing to play additional subs and have to split what little free time i have between two games, it's been about 5months since i played eve as it was. im running low on ISK paying for subs :)

eliminator2
Gallente
Vindicated Blast.
Posted - 2009.08.25 09:02:00 - [810]
 

dust should be for pc you can get better aim with pc and add expansions/updates to pc games alot better and easier


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