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TheMiner
Posted - 2004.10.11 07:12:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 11/10/2004 02:11:10

...cry cry cry whine whine whine...

I'm sick and tired of CCP catoring to the full time PvP crowd, it's disgusting, and makes me feel like they don't want me to play their game.....I'm not smart enough to learn how to paly the game...and I cant adapt..and I want everything handed to me on a silver platter... they don't want diversity & true specialization... They don't want my subscription money... and I don't blame them because I'm an ignorant spoiled brat.

.....boo hoo boo hoo boo hoo i want my mommy....

And no, no one can have my stuff, you can all **** off!

And especially The Miner, he's a little prick because he holds a mirror up to my face and lets me see how fricking ******ed I am.


Wow.. a lot of crying in there. Hey.. I'm not a PVPer either but I *live* in 0.0. I will partake deeply of the POSes once Shiva coems out. How can you even stand to play the game yet never take risks or interact with real people in a 100% free enviroment? Why dont people like you just playsingle palyer games? Whats the diffrecne between how YOU play EVE and playing soem single player space game while chatting in mirc? Why would you want EVE to be 100% risk free easy? Is that FUN for you? Cry more, carebear noob?

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.10.11 07:13:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: S'Daria
Originally by: F'nog
Archbishop reiterated a good point I made. If you're a small corp and want to build a POS, find a few allies in Empire and work together with them then share the POS. It'll save a lot of work and give you the benefit of one. It's all about teamwork, which is why 1, or a few players shouldn't be able to just get one. You'll make some nice friends and have more fun doing so. It's easier for the big Alliances and corps to get them, but that's how it should be; they've got the manpower to operate it efficiently without (hopefully) it driving them all crazy.
Where exactly would a group of Empire corps put a POS in 0.0? I mean there are alot of alliances out there...and as far as I'm aware there isn't any "safe" 0.0 space...so these Empire corps will get their arse handed to them.

You know it and I know it...1 experience player could probably take out like 5 'Empire noobs'...

Most 'Empire noobs' don't even know how to use their ships/modules effectively, let along work together.

It'll be a slaughter.




Both of us, I believe (I'm pretty sure at least I was, but I could be wrong. I'll check with myself and get back to you), were talking about forming an "alliance" with like-minded people in Empire and working together to build a POS, whereever they happen to let you build them. This is for those who don't have the manpower to build one on their own, and has nothing to do with the whole 0.0 argument.

TheMiner
Posted - 2004.10.11 07:16:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: TheMiner on 11/10/2004 07:20:12
Edited by: TheMiner on 11/10/2004 07:19:30
Originally by: Tripp Orsam
Originally by: TheMiner
I see you are a nice person and will therefore change my tone.


That would probably be best, for someone that is quite new to the game you certainly have a big mouth, which is not a bad thing as long as you keep things constructive, personally i would have not called the original poster a 'noob' and i think that the forums (and tranquility) could use less people like this.

Also I'd like to know what your startegy is for a spawn like 1 battleship and 3 scrambling intercepters (not to fight them, just to get the hell of of there), because as far as i know once you warp in there isnt even enough time to align for warp let alone escape (in a cruiser). Or perhaps you were very lucky and when you encoutered this type of spawn you were very far from them and had time to escape, just curious. Bottom line is its not a good idea hunting 0.0 in a cruiser unless you dont mind losing ships quite often, or perhaps some 0.0 systems just dont spawn battleships/inties i dont know.


I hunt in a caracal. I have killed hundreds of npcs in 0.0. I only have to leave if there is a BS mixed with the spawn. ... How do I avoid getting webed/scrambled by the ceptors b4 I can warp out when there is a BS present? I use my brain. Figthing npcs is the EASIEST of the fighting in a game like EVE. They are npcs. They have no intelligence.

*Edit* So far I have lost zero ships while hunting NPCs in 0.0.

Wren
Minmatar
x13
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.11 08:57:00 - [94]
 

So, a bit of the "I r0x, you sux" attitude from you now?

Duplicity at it's finest.

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.10.11 09:21:00 - [95]
 

You know what will happen when PoS are made anchorable in 0.5+ space?

Rich corporations will plant rows and rows of moon harvesters at as many places as they can, thus increasing their income vastly when compared to small-time corporations' efforts.

Since these rich corps are primarily 0.0 based with empire mining/agent/sales departments, they will be able to maintain their Empire PoS easily, even if you're going to be hiring the system/moon from an NPC organisation.

PoS, even limited ones, in highsec space will accomodate only the rich and will not be the amount of fun for small corps that you think it might be.

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.11 09:27:00 - [96]
 

I made a shockingly insightful post just now, but it seems our network bod up at the other office is toying with the proxy server, and I just lost the whole thing.

Suffice to say, you would all have been stunned and amazed at the quality of this posting, and would have had to take a step back to take it all in, and try, piece by piece to comprehend it.

Sadly, it's just 1's and 0's in the wind now...

So I'll just point at discorps thread, and point out how much I agree.

S'Daria
Posted - 2004.10.11 09:37:00 - [97]
 

You can still declare war on these "fat corporations" and destroy their POS'es...

"rent" + "lower moon mining output 0.5+" < "no rent" + "higher moon mining output in 0.0"

From what I hear in the Shiva/Singularity forum, owning a POS is expensive. Unless you can show a profit in 0.5+ space, very few people will be able to afford the money sink.

Let them spend their money and you can declare war on them and destroy it if you want.


drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.11 09:45:00 - [98]
 

Apparently, S'Daria, declaring a war without some provocation is not going to be possible in Shiva. More details in the Shiva forum, I believe.

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.10.11 09:47:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: S'Daria
You can still declare war on these "fat corporations" and destroy their POS'es...


So? You can do the same for smaller corporations, so it's not really a problem these rich corps will ahve to worry about more then smaller corps. In fact, declaring war on them will make them concentrate their PoS in a few systems that are easily defended. Combined with a Towers ability to shield whatever is inside from harm (read shiva pages) as well as the defenders' ability to rig when the comes out of it's reinforced state will make defending them an easy excersize compared to the difficulty of destroying them.

Originally by: S'Daria
"rent" + "lower moon mining output 0.5+" < "no rent" + "higher moon mining output in 0.0"


Lunar stats have been set in stone since Gemini, they're not going to change based on sec level. You fail to understand that the absolute uberness of having concord defend your PoS from attack when an agressor is not wardecced FAR outweighs any potential profit 0.0 might offer.

Originally by: S'Daria
From what I hear in the Shiva/Singularity forum, owning a POS is expensive. Unless you can show a profit in 0.5+ space, very few people will be able to afford the money sink.

Let them spend their money and you can declare war on them and destroy it if you want.



Yes. Very few people will be able to afford the money sink.

Those very few people are all rich established corps like Techell, Xanadu, BIG, etc. Corps like that will be able to afford them with no problem whatsoever.

There's another thing you're overlooking. If you wardec any of these rich 0.0 corps, chances are that you're wardeccing their entire alliance. I don't think I need to tell you what trouble that will get you in.

Loka
Gallente
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
Posted - 2004.10.11 09:47:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: S'Daria
You can still declare war on these "fat corporations" and destroy their POS'es...

"rent" + "lower moon mining output 0.5+" < "no rent" + "higher moon mining output in 0.0"

From what I hear in the Shiva/Singularity forum, owning a POS is expensive. Unless you can show a profit in 0.5+ space, very few people will be able to afford the money sink.

Let them spend their money and you can declare war on them and destroy it if you want.




Dont you think this fat corps, can do it same? And dont you think they have more funds to maintain the war? The smaller corps will suffer more from it.

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.10.11 09:47:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: drunkenmaster
Apparently, S'Daria, declaring a war without some provocation is not going to be possible in Shiva. More details in the Shiva forum, I believe.


Nah, that's been canned, dm.

Aodha Khan
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.10.11 09:50:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Archbishop


They wont be protected by the NPC's in a war situation. That was my point regarding "risk". There is risk even in Empire space. Look at my corp with 20+ wars. In fact I was blown up (again) about 45 minutes ago by a Rupture (poor Maller). Even using game mechanics there is a TON of risk in Empire.

Perhaps the solution is put sentry guns by POS? That way only corps / alliances at war with you can actually attack you? Isn't that the way it is in real life? You get attacked? You declare war? You fight til someone is wasted?

I do think this "you can't declare war until someone is killed in 24 hours" deal is stupid imo. But I do believe war should be declared (even in 0.0) before people can just run around ganking everything in sight.

As for mercenary corps they could also "declare war" and attack. So they're not losing anything.

The only real people who are affected by this are the people who live and work in Empire only for whatever reason. They'd have to completely change their gameplay and maybe even leave their corps and friends if they wanted to be involved in a POS. I just don't agree with that.

I do agree they should be VERY expensive to build and maintain. Small corps and individuals should not be able to build them realistically. HOWEVER if a small corp wanted to join 10 other small corps and form an alliance and build one THAT would be acceptable.

But they're not meant to be "houses" the other poster was EXACTLY on target with that.

Archbishop
PIE CORPORATION

These comments are my own as a longtime player and beta tester. They do not represent the views of PIE CORPORATION.


I agree with you that POS should be expensive but for me, only in 0.5 and up. Otherwise there is going to be large numbers of stations in each 0.5+ system with severe lag.

I would like to see the population spread out a bit with this update and populate 0.0 space.

Aodha Khan
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.10.11 09:51:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: drunkenmaster
Apparently, S'Daria, declaring a war without some provocation is not going to be possible in Shiva. More details in the Shiva forum, I believe.


Nah, that's been canned, dm.


*phew*

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:27:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: drunkenmaster
Apparently, S'Daria, declaring a war without some provocation is not going to be possible in Shiva. More details in the Shiva forum, I believe.


Nah, that's been canned, dm.


*Drunkenmaster feels a wave of relief wash over him*

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2004.10.11 11:30:00 - [105]
 

Quote:
I hunt in a caracal. I have killed hundreds of npcs in 0.0. I only have to leave if there is a BS mixed with the spawn. ... How do I avoid getting webed/scrambled by the ceptors b4 I can warp out when there is a BS present? I use my brain. Figthing npcs is the EASIEST of the fighting in a game like EVE. They are npcs. They have no intelligence.


Wow, I'm thinking more & more that this guy is a little snarling 15 year old brat. He certainly can come on these boards and talk big, but somehow I'm not buying it...

I may have a bad attitude some times, but I don't go around telling other people how to play the game. This dude thinks everyone should play like him, or get lost and go play another game.

Does everyone in the world who means anything have the same job?

Are we all killers in RL, are we all criminals, pirates, law enforcement?

We are not all the same in RL, and we should not all be forced to play the same in EVE. Diversity & specialization is a good thing when building any community, even a virtual one, and CCP should not punish me for not going into 0.0 space by not allowing me access to the new game content.

I agree the higher risk you take, the more lucrative your reward should be (That is why all the high end ore & NPC's are out on 0.0), However, I should have the same opportunities to enjoy POS's for my corp in 0.1 to 0.7 space as those in 0.0. Should it cost more in Empire? Sure. Should the reward for owning one in 0.5 be less that in 0.0? Sure. Just give me the option to have one, don't try and force me to play in sec systems that I don't want to.

You are effectively telling me to go find another game to play, not a good sales pitch, not good customer support for someone who has been here since beta...

I don't need asshats like 2 moth old TheMiner telling me I should play the game like him, I'm certainly not him, and never will be.

I am not playing this game like a single player game, I am definitely a multiplayer freindly person, and love working in groups towards common goals. Why does CCP feel the need that multiplayer and interaction has to have Combat PvP in there somewhere? I don't understand...

Most of the real world society are not thugs or law enforcement. Why the hell in the EVE virtual world do we all have to be fighters of some type?

I would think for a balanced game, and balanced economy, most of the playerbase should be non-combatants. When I want to fight, I go play Quake3 or RTCW, where fighting skills actually matter, I certainly don't look to EVE for that, because quite frankly manny other games do it so much better.

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.11 13:46:00 - [106]
 

0.0 and PvP aren't *always* part of the same sentence. It's a shame people don't understand this.

One fur lover goes to 0.0 and gets annihilated, and makes a post about how evil it is, and that the sky is falling in, and the next thing you know, everyone thinks 0.0 is intrinsically unsafe.

The simple fact that people are generally unwilling to even try it most of the problem.

People see the risks, but have no comprehension of the rewards. So they stay in AFK space.

MrRookie
M. Corp
M. PIRE
Posted - 2004.10.11 13:57:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: TheMiner
Some people who play this game must suck. I have less than 1.3 million skill points and ive been hutning rats in 0.0 in my cruiser for weeks. The only thing I cant kill where I am is battleships.

I have 550 million right now in my wallet. I started EVE (for the first time) 2 months ago. If I felt like it, in 4 days time I could be piloting a Raven. I am one to beleive, however, that one should have sufficent skills to back up his investment. I shall wait to buy a BS. Besides..I have no need. I will construct a POS when they come out, however..and pay (either by isk or by giving them access rights) people to defend it. :)

So...no, you are a cearbear by choice...not necessity.


I cant help it but... Laughing
get real

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:04:00 - [108]
 

Quote:
The simple fact that people are generally unwilling to even try it most of the problem.


I'm not sure how true that is, I was quite active in 0.0 space at one point... (not with this character though)

I have found the parts of the game that are fun for me (basically anything but combat PvP, I don't have the time or ISK to make that a career, sorry).

I stick with what I like... I don't see a problem with that, CCP and a large portion of the community however see this as not fullfilling my duty as cannon fodder...

This is what irritates me so much, and I can confidently say I'm not the only one...

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:07:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
The simple fact that people are generally unwilling to even try it most of the problem.


I'm not sure how true that is, I was quite active in 0.0 space at one point... (not with this character though)

I have found the parts of the game that are fun for me (basically anything but combat PvP, I don't have the time or ISK to make that a career, sorry).

I stick with what I like... I don't see a problem with that, CCP and a large portion of the community however see this as not fullfilling my duty as cannon fodder...

This is what irritates me so much, and I can confidently say I'm not the only one...


I want to play the game on 'Easy Mode' but get the same rewards as playing on 'Hard Mode'.

Get real.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:18:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: DarkMatter on 11/10/2004 14:24:44
Quote:
I want to play the game on 'Easy Mode' but get the same rewards as playing on 'Hard Mode'.

Get real.


You are a total asshat, where did I say I want the same rewards?

I didn't you prick!

Since when is POS a reward?

CCP has been promising this content for ever, they never said it was a reward for PK'ers only.

You need to get real *******!

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:21:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: S'Daria
Originally by: F'nog
Archbishop reiterated a good point I made. If you're a small corp and want to build a POS, find a few allies in Empire and work together with them then share the POS. It'll save a lot of work and give you the benefit of one. It's all about teamwork, which is why 1, or a few players shouldn't be able to just get one. You'll make some nice friends and have more fun doing so. It's easier for the big Alliances and corps to get them, but that's how it should be; they've got the manpower to operate it efficiently without (hopefully) it driving them all crazy.
Where exactly would a group of Empire corps put a POS in 0.0? I mean there are alot of alliances out there...and as far as I'm aware there isn't any "safe" 0.0 space...so these Empire corps will get their arse handed to them.

You know it and I know it...1 experience player could probably take out like 5 'Empire noobs'...

Most 'Empire noobs' don't even know how to use their ships/modules effectively, let along work together.

It'll be a slaughter.




You may be surprised Twisted Evil

Adding my own thoughts on this I think what is proposed at the moment which is the ability to build POS only in low-sec or 0.0 systems is the right one.

There needs to be some risk. Placing these things in secure space would be a recipe for disaster. They do need to be able to be attacked and destroyed. Having Concord turn up to do the protecting in addition to the station's own defences would be ridiculous.

That said as a roleplay Corp it would be nice if Corporations (at war) could set up 'non-economic/military' POS in high sec space - something like forward HQ's that our enemies could try and capture/destroy and vice versa...


DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:28:00 - [112]
 

Quote:
There needs to be some risk. Placing these things in secure space would be a recipe for disaster. They do need to be able to be attacked and destroyed


I don't understand your logic?

If you are at war with that corp, concord would not enter the equation...

If you are not at war with that corp, then you should not be attacking that POS in the first place...


drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:33:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
There needs to be some risk. Placing these things in secure space would be a recipe for disaster. They do need to be able to be attacked and destroyed


I don't understand your logic?

If you are at war with that corp, concord would not enter the equation...

If you are not at war with that corp, then you should not be attacking that POS in the first place...




You have much to learn.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:35:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 11/10/2004 14:24:44
Quote:
I want to play the game on 'Easy Mode' but get the same rewards as playing on 'Hard Mode'.

Get real.


You are a total asshat, where did I say I want the same rewards?

I didn't you prick!

Since when is POS a reward?

CCP has been promising this content for ever, they never said it was a reward for PK'ers only.

You need to get real *******!


Heh, only replying so I can see what the word-filter blocked out.

Man you have issues.

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:38:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
There needs to be some risk. Placing these things in secure space would be a recipe for disaster. They do need to be able to be attacked and destroyed


I don't understand your logic?

If you are at war with that corp, concord would not enter the equation...

If you are not at war with that corp, then you should not be attacking that POS in the first place...




The people that build these things in high security space will have the benefit of 100% protection when it comes to supplying them with the goods they need to keep running. Seeing that those supplies are nodoubtedly a big factor in CCP's risk/reward assessment, having those supplies come risk-less to the PoS would be a stupid decision.

PoS do NOT belong in higher security space for that rason and the reasons I've given before. I'm fine with limeted functionality in 0.4 and below and full functionality in 0.0, but they simply do not belong in 0.5 space and above.

This is not to deny you, DarkMatter or any other, an avenue of Eve. Rather, it should be a conscious decision to keep aspects of the game to lower secrity systems, where the risk is balanced with the pos rewards.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:46:00 - [116]
 

Quote:
You have much to learn


What, that PK'ers rule, and that if I don't PvP, then I should never be allowed to play this game?

You guys need to get real, there is tons of stuff for you to blow up in 0.4 to 0.0 space, why must you insist that those of us in 0.5 to 1.0 should NEVER ever have anything but veld roids to play with.

You are all the same, you want to make the game for PK'ers only, and you want the rest of the community to happily fly around and be target practice for you honerable folk.

I'm sick and tired of your BS, it's a never ending:

You noob, go mine some more veld!

You noob, did you read the back of the box?

You noob, you don't deserve to have fun if you're gonna stay in empire!

You noob, you don't deserve to fly that ship because I say so!

You noob, you deserve to die because you are flying that indy, you stupid asshat!

You noob, go find another game to play if you're not going to PvP and play the game the way I say you should!

You guys can all suck me!


Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:50:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
You have much to learn


What, that PK'ers rule, and that if I don't PvP, then I should never be allowed to play this game?

You guys need to get real, there is tons of stuff for you to blow up in 0.4 to 0.0 space, why must you insist that those of us in 0.5 to 1.0 should NEVER ever have anything but veld roids to play with.

You are all the same, you want to make the game for PK'ers only, and you want the rest of the community to happily fly around and be target practice for you honerable folk.

I'm sick and tired of your BS, it's a never ending:

You noob, go mine some more veld!

You noob, did you read the back of the box?

You noob, you don't deserve to have fun if you're gonna stay in empire!

You noob, you don't deserve to fly that ship because I say so!

You noob, you deserve to die because you are flying that indy, you stupid asshat!

You noob, go find another game to play if you're not going to PvP and play the game the way I say you should!

You guys can all suck me!




Well, after reading your well constructed and informative post, I am now at a loss to understand why the community is so unreasonable as to not pander to your every whim.





Rolling Eyes

Discorporation
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:52:00 - [118]
 

The consequence of living in safe, npc dominated areas is that you have less toys to play with.

Live with it, lil nubbin.

drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:55:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
You have much to learn


What, that PK'ers rule, and that if I don't PvP, then I should never be allowed to play this game?

You guys need to get real, there is tons of stuff for you to blow up in 0.4 to 0.0 space, why must you insist that those of us in 0.5 to 1.0 should NEVER ever have anything but veld roids to play with.

You are all the same, you want to make the game for PK'ers only, and you want the rest of the community to happily fly around and be target practice for you honerable folk.

I'm sick and tired of your BS, it's a never ending:

You noob, go mine some more veld!

You noob, did you read the back of the box?

You noob, you don't deserve to have fun if you're gonna stay in empire!

You noob, you don't deserve to fly that ship because I say so!

You noob, you deserve to die because you are flying that indy, you stupid asshat!

You noob, go find another game to play if you're not going to PvP and play the game the way I say you should!

You guys can all suck me!




Well, I was talking more in terms of rage suppression/anger management. But.. whatever.

Some people see moving out from 0.9-1.0 to 0.8-0.5 and then from there to 0.1-0.4, and finally into 0.0 (where, incidentally, pvp is *not* a necessity, no matter how much you want to believe it is) as some sort of 'progression'

What do *you* consider progression? (if you don't mind me asking)

ps. cut out on the insults, you know full well that that sort of behaviour is not allowed on the board, and I'd hate to see someone with a varied vocabulary like yours gagged from posting.

TheMiner
Posted - 2004.10.11 14:56:00 - [120]
 

I am not a PKer.. I'm not even a pvper...but I live in 0.0


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