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Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
Posted - 2009.08.17 18:46:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: CCP Pleognost
We're also planning to release some documentation on how to use it, of course. Smile


Who are you, and what have you done with CCP Pleognost!

I knew this seemed too good to be true, and this just confirms it.

CCP's been infiltrated by productive people who want to make things better. Who knows what dark road they'll lead this world down.


Wink

I do hope the docs will be as CCP Garthagk made the API docs- wikified on the EVE developer wiki, or at the very least on Evelopedia!

Will there be a team whose job it is to maintain and improve the new IGB, or is this a one-off sprint? Will there be a proper bugreport/feature request system to allow third party devs to collaborate on bugs, problems and new features? I do worry that CCP's internal processes are well tuned for making games, not browsers. Have a look at the timescale on most browser releases and you'll see where I'm coming from. Will we be getting regular updates and people working full-time on improvements/fixes, or an occasional prod from devs with spare time?

(Sorry for being cynical, but I've been writing EVE websites for almost 3 years now. With the API as it is, you can hardly blame me Wink)

omgdutch2005
Gallente
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2009.08.17 21:44:00 - [92]
 

cooooool! :)

when is it released>? :P

apoc1.5? plx? :P lol, or end of the year expansions would b good aswell :)

Karaun Xavura
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.17 23:22:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Karaun Xavura on 17/08/2009 23:23:16
To all the people complaining about Google. WebKit isn't Google's - it's Apple's.

"WebKit was originally derived by Apple Inc. from the Konqueror browser’s KHTML software library for use as the engine for Mac OS X’s Safari web browser and has now been further developed by individuals from the KDE project, Apple Inc., Nokia, Google, Torch Mobile and others."

Looks like Google have put some work into it but it belongs to Apple afaik. Wait... Apple's a big company too, oh noes!


Anyway... good move CCP, this is awesome.

Makhar
Independent Miners Guild
Guild Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.17 23:35:00 - [94]
 

YAY!!

Hope it works this time :) Suuure it will, I have faith :D

and thanks!

Malande
Amarr
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.08.18 04:31:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Darcon Kylote
Originally by: Gnulpie
As good as these changes might be, I think there are MUCH MORE IMPORTANT things necessary to be fixed in Eve first.

The whole pos, corp, alliance interfaces for example. Alchemy, sov system, supercaps, epic arcs and and and. Fix the GAME STUFF first I would say (yeah, I know, some of that stuff will be tackled in the winter expansion).

...



Well, yeah.... I am a software architect at my job, and I find I often have to control the tendency of my developers to go after the shiny, fun, techie stuff (that users don't care about), and ignore the boring usability changes and such that'll make a real difference to the bottom line. Seems like someone needs to be doing more of this at CCP.

I would rather lose the IGB entirely if I could get just a handful more keyboard shortcuts for example.


:Facepalm:

As a software architect (who i presmue has experience working in a team of such people) you should realise that you can have people working on different aspects of development at-the-same-time!

Theres a point at which throwing more people at the development of a single issue does no increase the speed at which that development progresses - thus you have people free to work on other areas

Rolling Eyes

Nick Turing
Posted - 2009.08.18 10:37:00 - [96]
 

While you're at it, could we please have some way for the site to verify the identity of the user who's using the IGB on a trusted site? OpenID would be ideal, but OAuth would also work. :)

AeonOfTime
Minmatar
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
Posted - 2009.08.18 16:15:00 - [97]
 

The instant I realized the topic was the IGB, I hoped you guys would say that you used webkit. As a web developer in life, I cried a little tear of joy at the news.

What else can I say but THANKS!

I must say that my enthusiasm in general for EVE is reaching new heights with the latests changes and the changes that have been announced lately. The game is an incredible experience as it is, and you guys keep making it better and better.

/me goes back to the drawing board for his EVE application development plans with a big grin on his face.

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2009.08.19 12:26:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Catari Taga on 19/08/2009 21:33:41
Awesome. Between this and the datadump being early I'm somewhat losing trust in CCP - in a good way! Very Happy

PS: As to feature suggestions: I would love to have a way to integrate bookmarks as warpable links. Assuming you store bookmarks on the server with a unique ID you could just implement a way to share that ID with the browser (e.g. drag&drop of a bookmark). Since ingame bookmark handling is so clunky and laggy that would very much facilitate it.

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2009.08.19 15:54:00 - [99]
 

I would like to point out that Gidget was also one of the Taco Bell Chihuahuas.

I'm very happy that we're getting an IGB update; this will open up a huge world of new possibilities for the people who write web apps. I have been (slowly) working on an Ext-based one myself and I am certainly looking forward to some kind of integration. Very Happy

Haradgrim
Systematic Mercantilism
Posted - 2009.08.19 20:53:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Haradgrim on 19/08/2009 20:53:14
I find your lack of Flash disturbing :vader:

Leebe
Posted - 2009.08.20 18:02:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Leebe on 20/08/2009 18:03:54
Edited by: Leebe on 20/08/2009 18:02:50
why would you need flash to watch youtube videos ?

chromium is able to play videos using the html5 video tag (see the youtube demo with a capable browser: youtube demo page)

if you lock down extensions what about user scripts that could be installed by the user? That would be nice for ad blocking .)


btw: if you don't like it, or if you don't trust it nobody forces you to open web pages with the ingame browser. Maybe ccp could add an option to disable it completely :)

Milli Magente
Posted - 2009.08.20 19:03:00 - [102]
 

Crazy for nothing ^^ lol

If i want to "browse" something, i will use Firefox,
makes his job very good and was "born" for that kind of ****.

If anyone dont know "Alt+Tab" to switch through running appz, try it Idea LoOoL

C ya' Rolling Eyes

Correcteur
Posted - 2009.08.21 08:42:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Milli Magente
If i want to "browse" something, i will use Firefox,
makes his job very good and was "born" for that kind of ****.

Same thing here.

Saartje Sarel
Posted - 2009.08.21 11:07:00 - [104]
 

I'm not just being arsey but wtf is the point of the IGB when you can just copy the url, hit the windows key, paste it into Firefox and stop ****ing around?

Talk about an epic and I do mean epic waste of man hours at CCP. Rolling Eyes

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2009.08.21 11:15:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Saartje Sarel
I'm not just being arsey but wtf is the point of the IGB when you can just copy the url, hit the windows key, paste it into Firefox and stop ****ing around?

Talk about an epic and I do mean epic waste of man hours at CCP. Rolling Eyes


I'm guessing this is either poorly disguised sarcasm, or you really don't understand the intended use of the IGB. The reason it was originally put in was to facilitate user-created webapps that could interact with the eve client. Currently, it can only pull some character info, and spawn some other windows (evemail, show info, etc). It's failings are that it renders too slow to be useful, and it lacks any sort of real authentication, preventing it's large scale use dissiminating privileged information. Hell, the ability to run a GOOD corp/alliance message board would be enough to justify this change.

Renfrew Shrufan
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.08.21 16:13:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Renfrew Shrufan on 21/08/2009 16:52:01
Dumb post - don't mind me.

angulion
Gallente
Rule of Five
Split Infinity.
Posted - 2009.08.21 19:02:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: angulion on 21/08/2009 19:04:36
Excellent news!

One thing that would be nice is if you would be able to have more than one web-browser window open - like chat channels currently (tabbed or dragged off to own window).
You might want to have one window just tiny to update your position while in another actually doing stuff.

Someone suggested a "give money function", I'd suggest that a web-page could have some special tag or a href that would fill in everything in a contract, so that you only need to click the last Proceed/Create contract (on summary page of contracts) to create it.
Could make a corp-store easier.. :)

Edit, it would be nice with an option if links should by default be opened in IGB or external browser. No matter how good the IGB is, random youtube etc. links in chats I prefer to open in out of game browser. Actually, have a default option and on right click on links you can separately select IGB or OGB..

Saartje Sarel
Posted - 2009.08.22 13:35:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Saartje Sarel on 22/08/2009 13:37:34
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Saartje Sarel
I'm not just being arsey but wtf is the point of the IGB when you can just copy the url, hit the windows key, paste it into Firefox and stop ****ing around?

Talk about an epic and I do mean epic waste of man hours at CCP. Rolling Eyes


I'm guessing this is either poorly disguised sarcasm, or you really don't understand the intended use of the IGB. The reason it was originally put in was to facilitate user-created webapps that could interact with the eve client. Currently, it can only pull some character info, and spawn some other windows (evemail, show info, etc). It's failings are that it renders too slow to be useful, and it lacks any sort of real authentication, preventing it's large scale use dissiminating privileged information. Hell, the ability to run a GOOD corp/alliance message board would be enough to justify this change.


Well I stand informed. But sincerely, I can't see the point when, thankfully, EVE mins and max's very quickly with no need to pre-render on restore etc. Firefox has enjoyed almost a decade of development and works very well, IGB? Even if it did do specific plugins and apps for eve, they would be better served being developed as java or flash or een just php/sql for a more universal platform surely?

Nah, I don't see the point. Its nice, but like OSS generally feels, you get the impression its a waste of time and nothing really useful likely to come of it.

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2009.08.23 10:08:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Saartje Sarel
Nah, I don't see the point. Its nice, but like OSS generally feels, you get the impression its a waste of time and nothing really useful likely to come of it.
Obvious troll is obvious.

Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2009.08.23 15:55:00 - [110]
 

Being able to share bookmarks via a corp website would be absolutely awesome.

It would also allow many of us to stop wasting an entire tab of our corp hangars in w-hole POS since the delay is pretty infuriating. Share for others being able to collect and share safes which can be rapidly accessed would make fleet co-ordination much simpler.

Kempeth
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.24 10:58:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Karaun Xavura
To all the people complaining about Google. WebKit isn't Google's - it's Apple's.

"WebKit was originally derived by Apple Inc. from the Konqueror browser’s KHTML software library for use as the engine for Mac OS X’s Safari web browser and has now been further developed by individuals from the KDE project, Apple Inc., Nokia, Google, Torch Mobile and others."

The problem with your logic is that they are not using WebKit directly but via two other libraries:

Quote:
The first, and undoubtedly greatest, is the Heraclidean support provided by Awesomium and its Prince of Code. This library harnesses the raw strength of the Chromium browser toolkit - the muscles, knit from Webkit, that writhe cobra-like beneath the skin of Google's Chrome - and hand-delivers rendered HTML pages to us as nice 3D surfaces, which we can then readily display in our own Trinity engine.

In short. CCP uses Awesomium which uses Chromium (by Google) which uses Webkit... I'm not particularly thrilled about the Google part either but these reports generally target the Chrome browser. How curious the library itself is remains to be seen... On the other hand I'd rather have them use something like this than some MS browser kit. At least with WebKit you've got a rather standards compliant platform.

Originally by: CCP Pleognost
We're already planning on locking-down plug-ins, and we're still investigating just how fine-grained we can make our controls for things like Cookies and scripting without making the browser a usability nightmare.
Many programs feature "expert modes" that provide more detailed configuration options. A convenient solution could be to provide the standard IGB user with a simple choice: "Share or don't share information" and give the more advanced/paranoid users (like me) the option to switch to "expert mode" and set more fine grained permissions...

As for keeping older projects compatible I personally wouldn't worry too much. Anything that becomes incompatible will either be upgraded or people with come up with a replacement.


Vinev
Minmatar
German Kings
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.08.26 17:27:00 - [112]
 

yes

Justin Cody
Caldari
T.A.L.O.N. Company
B4D W01F
Posted - 2009.08.31 16:57:00 - [113]
 

Roll it out so it is able to be used first and in a stable manner. Then work out expanding its capabilities.

I approve as I love chrome.

/slashies for the dev branch of chrome.

Tempest Starkitty
Gallente
I'm Charging My Lazor
Posted - 2009.09.01 01:08:00 - [114]
 

me likey banannas

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2009.09.02 01:59:00 - [115]
 

Quote:

Yeah, dude, and why not throw in a tenfold performance boost while you're at it?



Well 10x should bring it up to "extreamely slow" :-P

Why use webkit... It's Safari.... Safari is about the worst browser ever made.

It's failing for Google Chrome, watch it fail for Eve.


MJ Maverick
IronPig
Sev3rance
Posted - 2009.09.02 14:48:00 - [116]
 

Good work CCP, Brownie points given :)

Hope it works out well.

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2009.09.09 02:59:00 - [117]
 

o/

I made a little in-game site for odd ships and things at http://gogela.com/eve/info.php It has a small image and a bunch of in game links. It takes 5x longer to load than any page on the internet.

I'm all for upgrades. Please fix

Leebe
Posted - 2009.09.09 07:43:00 - [118]
 

Just a small idea...

Add the color values the user has chosen for his ui in the requests... that would make it possible to create web sites that automaticly fit into the users ui .)

Lord Helghast
Posted - 2009.09.15 19:40:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Saartje Sarel
I'm not just being arsey but wtf is the point of the IGB when you can just copy the url, hit the windows key, paste it into Firefox and stop ****ing around?

Talk about an epic and I do mean epic waste of man hours at CCP. Rolling Eyes


Wow please say that was sarcasm, if so i can imagine the winkey coming back and you sitting in a pod somewhere lol

is their any news on when this update will hit, i hate sending people a screenshot and the damn thing taking 30 seconds to even start to show.

and whats this BS about IGB shouldnt be improved because a browser doesnt belong in a game, the DAMN IGB IS ALREADY THEIR! It's just a piece of turd, so they are trying to improve it, i hate using it even for igbtools... instead i run a eve in a window with a chromium window beside eve for my evetools etc.

i seriously cant wait for this to be deployed, and for those bashing google, Chromium <> Chrome ... Chrome just happens to be based off of chromium, It's an awesome framework and its fast and light i welcome this addition and seriously cant wait.

D Gelalder
Gallente
Core Antum
Posted - 2009.09.16 13:07:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: D Gelalder on 16/09/2009 23:02:30
Originally by: CCP Pleognost
Originally by: D Gelalder
- Ability to create "give money to.." links with target character or corp with amount and reason.
This should make things easier for corps that handle a lot of isk transfers, like payouts or banks or whatever else.


While we'd like to do stuff like this, it would also make website-driven fraud a lot easier to perpetrate. Any kind of browser-IGB interaction is going to require a full in-game confirmation prompt. That said, we can take a "give money" command under consideration.


Perhaps make it so that the "give money" command only works when the website is marked as trusted.


(edit) FYI: The first iteration of the new IGB appears to included in the dominion build currently on sisi.


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