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Der Valkirie
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:03:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Der Valkirie on 09/08/2009 01:06:41
Question, how many people read EULA's when installing software. I work in the computer industry and KNOW how often I or my clients read a EULA.
The reason I ask is because I was recently punished for breaking a EULA rule that even after reading the EULA is not mentioned - buying ISK's. I have never known a game that states gameplay rules in a EULA.Shocked
I do not mind being punished when I knowingly offend but if EVE is going to have rules then please DESCRIBE them.

SG commander
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:05:00 - [2]
 

RMT is not allowed

Der Valkirie
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:07:00 - [3]
 

What is RMT?

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:07:00 - [4]
 

I usually read EULAs, but I'm a bit weird; it's my idea of having a fun time Very Happy

Section 7B is 'Selling Items and Objects' (it includes currency)

Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:09:00 - [5]
 

EVE has a EULA?

Mythos Jones
Hostile.
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:09:00 - [6]
 

I've read both EULA + ToS in full though ToS is tiny.

Krystal Vernet
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:12:00 - [7]
 

The EULA is the thing full of legalese that I just scroll by when I install things, right?

Der Valkirie
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:13:00 - [8]
 

No offence my friend but you must be weird. Those are usually all the same and really BORING. If you want to use the software it does not matter what they say. Most of what I am whining about here is that it is a strange place to put gameplay rules.Twisted Evil

Sniper Wolf18
Gallente
A Pretty Pony Princess
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:14:00 - [9]
 

What MMO allows you to buy currency off a 3rd party site? I think lack of common sense on your part caused this tbqfh...

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:15:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: De''Veldrin on 09/08/2009 01:17:30
From the EULA:

Originally by: The EULA

Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions (such as ebay), newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.



I bolded the really important part, because it shows you the ONLY thing you're allowed to sell outside of the game. Buying or selling any other in-game item (including currency) via a method outside of the game is a violation of the EULA and a bannable offense.

Your lack of knowledge on the subject is your own problem. Next time, read the EULA.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:16:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Der Valkirie
No offence my friend but you must be weird. Those are usually all the same and really BORING. If you want to use the software it does not matter what they say. Most of what I am whining about here is that it is a strange place to put gameplay rules.Twisted Evil


That's not a gameplay rule. It's a rule for subscribing to their service - the fact that their service is a game is immaterial.

Der Valkirie
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:17:00 - [12]
 

EULA/ToS, what is wrong with a ROG aka Rules Of Gameplay. Does EVE want people to break the rules.
As for section 7b kit really needs to be more explicit after all when one looks out there it appears that buying ISK's is a normal process.

Der Valkirie
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:22:00 - [13]
 

FORGET it,
This was a SIMPLE question of whether the EULA was an appropriate place to put rules affecting GAMEPLAY but obviously some people are getting their hackles up. Please do not post to this thread any more.

Krystal Vernet
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:22:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Der Valkirie
EULA/ToS, what is wrong with a ROG aka Rules Of Gameplay. Does EVE want people to break the rules.
As for section 7b kit really needs to be more explicit after all when one looks out there it appears that buying ISK's is a normal process.


If you're new to MMORPGs, I can see you thinking it's a normal thing.

Other than that, common sense.

Der Valkirie
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:25:00 - [15]
 

Yes I am a MMORPG virgin.

MaxxOmega
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:27:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: MaxxOmega on 09/08/2009 01:27:49
I work for an Insurance Company. You have no idea how many people whine when they will not get a payout but the conditions are in in the contract they couldn't bother to read but signed in triplicate. They seem to think that the fact they were to lazy to read it should negate what is in it.

We had a guy who we wouldn't pay when he was the victim of a gunshot.... Shot while robbing a bank... lol

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:31:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 09/08/2009 01:36:01
Originally by: Der Valkirie
As for section 7b kit really needs to be more explicit after all when one looks out there it appears that buying ISK's is a normal process.
Excuse me? ugh

It is explicit. Cutting out the various reiterations of the same activity to cover various semantic weaseleling, and the list of the in-game stuff covered by the paragraph, the EULA very clearly states that

"You may not buy any content appearing within the Game environment, including currency. The buying of currency is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game."
Quote:
when one looks out there it appears that buying ISK's is a normal process.
1. Where the hell are you looking to get that impression?
2. So what? What you're seeing is entirely, thoroughly, 100% irrelevant since the EULA says otherwise.
Quote:
This was a SIMPLE question of whether the EULA was an appropriate place to put rules affecting GAMEPLAY
No. That's why there are "Terms of Use" and "User Policy" documents. What you're talking about isn't a gameplay issue, though, so it appropriately fits right in the EULA. You're just trying to construe that since it's in a place you didn't bother to read, you should be excused, which is poppycock.

Der Valkirie
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:33:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Der Valkirie on 09/08/2009 01:38:17
Edited by: Der Valkirie on 09/08/2009 01:35:04
MaxxOmega,
Having moved to the US from Europe I have learned to read every single detail of anything I sign just considered online gaming something different. Again I apologise for getting some people's knickers in a twist. I will ask the forum admin to delete this topic.
Der Valkirie.


Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:37:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Der Valkirie
FORGET it,
This was a SIMPLE question of whether the EULA was an appropriate place to put rules affecting GAMEPLAY but obviously some people are getting their hackles up.
Umm....

Where else do you want rules to be? I mean it is basically where all the rules live. It is a rather nice home for them...lots of space, a pool, a gym, even one of those meeting rooms that elderly people always have Bridge games in.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.08.09 01:51:00 - [20]
 

As RMT includes assets outside the game, a section against it has to be included in the EULA as the game rules are only in regards to in-game assets. Makes sense?

Lord Windu
Posted - 2009.08.09 02:01:00 - [21]
 

I understand your point that the majority of people do not sit and read all the way through the EULA, however to the point of buying ingame currency, this is an MMORPG "online-game" and as such it should be obvious that purchasing isk with real currency is in effect pressing the "cheat" button. And being an online game cheating is nothing like it is when playing single player games (as that only effects yourself).

P.S. Asking the moderators to remove this thread is pretty lame, I have never asked for one of my threads or posts to be removed and I come out with all sorts of crap at times.

Der Valkirie
Posted - 2009.08.09 02:01:00 - [22]
 

No, ISK's are an in-game asset

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.08.09 02:03:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Der Valkirie
No, ISK's are an in-game asset
Yes, but RMT takes place outside the game.

Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
Posted - 2009.08.09 02:06:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Khemul Zula on 09/08/2009 02:06:56
Originally by: Der Valkirie
No, ISK's are an in-game asset
Real world currency is an out-of-game asset. Wink

MaxxOmega
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2009.08.09 02:55:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Der Valkirie
Edited by: Der Valkirie on 09/08/2009 01:38:17
Edited by: Der Valkirie on 09/08/2009 01:35:04
MaxxOmega,
Having moved to the US from Europe I have learned to read every single detail of anything I sign just considered online gaming something different. Again I apologise for getting some people's knickers in a twist. I will ask the forum admin to delete this topic.
Der Valkirie.



I wouldn't worry about that man, it's no big deal.

wickedpheonix
Caldari
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
31ST Reliables Division
Posted - 2009.08.09 04:15:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Der Valkirie
FORGET it,
This was a SIMPLE question of whether the EULA was an appropriate place to put rules affecting GAMEPLAY ...


RMT is not a gameplay issue. You do not play EVE by buying illegal ISK - you play EVE by piloting your ship. This section of the EULA has to do with how you treat your Account, which belongs to CCP and is operated by you, outside the game. That is fundamentally an EULA issue and not a gameplay rule.

If you want to buy ISK, you need to buy an EVE Game Time Code (GTC) either online from a site like Shattered Crystal or in the retail boxed version of EVE. Using the EVE online site, you can convert the GTC into in-game items called PLEX's (1 GTC gives 2 PLEX's) and sell them in a station for ISK to other players. You can generally get about 600m-700m ISK depending on market conditions right now for a set of 2 PLEX's, and a GTC costs $35 online. It's much more expensive than the illegal ISK sites but unlike music piracy (YARRRR!!), you can't get away with buying ISK illegally.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.08.09 04:27:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: wickedpheonix
It's much more expensive than the illegal ISK sites but unlike music piracy (YARRRR!!), you can't get away with buying ISK illegally.
Actually, according to some of the spam I've seen lately, going the GTC route is actually cheaper than buying it illegally… Laughing

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.08.09 06:31:00 - [28]
 

Not according to the last spam mail i got, $25 per Billion or something.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2009.08.09 08:43:00 - [29]
 

I read them every time.

I accept that "this is how it goes".

I play the game.

IF you don't like it, try pressing "no" on the eula part Laughing

Feilamya
Pain Elemental
Posted - 2009.08.09 09:38:00 - [30]
 

Did you know that the EULA of iTunes forbids you to use the songs you download for building weapons of mass destruction or other terrorist activity?


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