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ArkAngel666
Posted - 2009.08.04 02:30:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: ArkAngel666 on 04/08/2009 02:31:28
I just recently sold my gal character and picked up a minnie one. So far out of all the ships my gal character could fly the only one I am missing is the Ishkur. I am one of those strange people that aren't in FW but really love flying AF's.

I have ZERO experience with the minnie AF's. But what I do know is I LOVED my Ishkur. It would only take me 10 days to train gal frig to 5 but my question is will I fall on love with the min AF's? How do they compare to the Ishkur?

Samaritan Azuma
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.08.04 03:29:00 - [2]
 

if you had to pick one... go w/ the ishkur by god.

Taua Roqa
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.04 04:05:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Taua Roqa on 04/08/2009 04:06:58
wolf and jag are both very able ships, but if you know the ishkur well use that i guess.

they don't really compare, very different ships.

ArkAngel666
Posted - 2009.08.04 04:16:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Taua Roqa
Edited by: Taua Roqa on 04/08/2009 04:06:58
wolf and jag are both very able ships, but if you know the ishkur well use that i guess.

they don't really compare, very different ships.


Is there anything that the jag/wolf does better then the ishkur?

Taua Roqa
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.04 04:22:00 - [5]
 

well i've never flown an ishkur so can't say :P

the jag can tank really well (i use a passive shield tank w/purgers on it, with a +2point and AB, and a single NOS in high, 200mm acs w/barrage, immune to neuts and unbonused drones, nice heavy tackler) and the wolf can gank extremely well, 200dps easy (actual damage may vary, yay falloff). with falloff rigs it has a decent range tbh too.


ArkAngel666
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:00:00 - [6]
 

I was playing around with the jag last night and while not able to put out the pure DPS my ishkur could it seems that it can mount a fairly good tank for a frig.

lucifers widow
United Front Alliance renting corp
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:09:00 - [7]
 

Never flown either but I'd rather fight a Ishkur over either the minnie Af's but the rifter hull has and always will scare the bejesus out of me ! Embarassed

Zaius Caine
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:19:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: ArkAngel666
Edited by: ArkAngel666 on 04/08/2009 02:31:28
I just recently sold my gal character and picked up a minnie one. So far out of all the ships my gal character could fly the only one I am missing is the Ishkur. I am one of those strange people that aren't in FW but really love flying AF's.

I have ZERO experience with the minnie AF's. But what I do know is I LOVED my Ishkur. It would only take me 10 days to train gal frig to 5 but my question is will I fall on love with the min AF's? How do they compare to the Ishkur?


Like you, I fly mostly AF's and the Minnie and Gal AF's are the best in the game. I personally favor the Wolf and Jag. I love the raw gankage the Wolf provides and the versatility and heavy tackle of the Jag. In the end, its really all about personal play style. If you decide to take the Minnie road, let me know and I'll set you up with some kick-arse loadouts.

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:46:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Orakkus on 04/08/2009 18:24:02
Matari AFs are awesome.. however, the Ishkur is probably the best AF out there, with Wolf/Jaguar competing for a close second. Really, the biggest strength to the Ishkur is its drones. Having the ability to field a fleet of light drones right from the get-go, with the potential of two full flights (at AF level V) make this AF very deadly..

The Jag and Wolf can field impressive tanks (10k EHP for the Jag, 8k+ for the Wolf) and can put out impressive DPS for a frigate class ship (at AF Level V + Matari Frig V, getting 100% damage boost). But their big advantage over the Ishkur would be speed, having at least 13% more in the case of the Wolf, and 20%+ more in the case of the Jaguar. Even against another AF, being able to dictate distace is important (especially if you want to drag drones out of the enemy's gun range).
edit: changed info for Ishkur cuz I forgot about drone bandwidth... my bad.

MadAtTheWorld
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:59:00 - [10]
 

here's one more thing to consider: training time. you said you could have gal af's to 5 in 10 days but are you taking in to account the drone skills needed? if you are already spec'd for minmatar and you have to do a ton of training for gal af's I would just stick to the wolf/jag as they are truly wonderful ships and imho are just as good or better than the ishkur(but very different).

Merbusent
Posted - 2009.08.04 16:59:00 - [11]
 

Looking at an wolf im too confused on what ammo to use take the Hail all explosive use that on a vengence for instance and the ishkur just has the constant optimal playing that off against hail autocannon fails

Ze4K DK
Gallente
Waiting for Palli
WILD BOARS
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:06:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
Really, the biggest strength to the Ishkur is its drones. Having the ability to field a fleet of light drones right from the get-go, with the potential of either two full fleets or a flight of medium drones (at AF level V) make this AF very deadly..



Why on earth would you put medium drones in it?

Drek Grapper
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:09:00 - [13]
 

All those ships are great...but the Ishkur is the only one that can carry a flight of small ecm drones...which are pwn. Damage mitigation and/or GTFO. Wink

MadAtTheWorld
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:10:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Merbusent
Looking at an wolf im too confused on what ammo to use take the Hail all explosive use that on a vengence for instance and the ishkur just has the constant optimal playing that off against hail autocannon fails


don't use hail and barrage for everything. get republic fleet and choose your damage type.

Drek Grapper
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:12:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Merbusent
Looking at an wolf im too confused on what ammo to use take the Hail all explosive use that on a vengence for instance and the ishkur just has the constant optimal playing that off against hail autocannon fails


With any Minmitar frig BARRAGE should be your default ammo. You cannot underestimate the value of that litte bit extra range against small ships/weapons systems.

Thats why the Rifter is so pwn. Smile You can orbit out of small neut range and chip away at the other guys tank.

ArkAngel666
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:47:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Zaius Caine
Originally by: ArkAngel666
Edited by: ArkAngel666 on 04/08/2009 02:31:28
I just recently sold my gal character and picked up a minnie one. So far out of all the ships my gal character could fly the only one I am missing is the Ishkur. I am one of those strange people that aren't in FW but really love flying AF's.

I have ZERO experience with the minnie AF's. But what I do know is I LOVED my Ishkur. It would only take me 10 days to train gal frig to 5 but my question is will I fall on love with the min AF's? How do they compare to the Ishkur?


Like you, I fly mostly AF's and the Minnie and Gal AF's are the best in the game. I personally favor the Wolf and Jag. I love the raw gankage the Wolf provides and the versatility and heavy tackle of the Jag. In the end, its really all about personal play style. If you decide to take the Minnie road, let me know and I'll set you up with some kick-arse loadouts.


I will most likley fo the minnie route as even though 10 days isint a ton of time it's still time I could be using to train something else more useful. Tjis is the fit I was flying last night. I am slo always happy to see others fits. Varitey is the spice of life ;)

[Jaguar, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I

Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Small Shield Booster II
Medium Shield Extender II

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small 'Ghoul' Energy Siphon I

Projectile Burst Aerator I
Projectile Collision Accelerator I




AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:52:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: ArkAngel666
Originally by: Zaius Caine
Originally by: ArkAngel666
Edited by: ArkAngel666 on 04/08/2009 02:31:28
I just recently sold my gal character and picked up a minnie one. So far out of all the ships my gal character could fly the only one I am missing is the Ishkur. I am one of those strange people that aren't in FW but really love flying AF's.

I have ZERO experience with the minnie AF's. But what I do know is I LOVED my Ishkur. It would only take me 10 days to train gal frig to 5 but my question is will I fall on love with the min AF's? How do they compare to the Ishkur?


Like you, I fly mostly AF's and the Minnie and Gal AF's are the best in the game. I personally favor the Wolf and Jag. I love the raw gankage the Wolf provides and the versatility and heavy tackle of the Jag. In the end, its really all about personal play style. If you decide to take the Minnie road, let me know and I'll set you up with some kick-arse loadouts.


I will most likley fo the minnie route as even though 10 days isint a ton of time it's still time I could be using to train something else more useful. Tjis is the fit I was flying last night. I am slo always happy to see others fits. Varitey is the spice of life ;)

[Jaguar, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I

Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Small Shield Booster II
Medium Shield Extender II

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small 'Ghoul' Energy Siphon I

Projectile Burst Aerator I
Projectile Collision Accelerator I



Shield booster and extender? Heretic!

Web or invul tbh

Drek Grapper
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.04 17:54:00 - [18]
 

Regulation fit Jag...can drop some mods to named and drop guns to 150's if you have fitting issues.


[Jaguar, Standard fit]
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II

Medium Shield Extender II
1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


Zaius Caine
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:04:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Zaius Caine on 04/08/2009 18:05:13
Here are a few of my favorite Jaguar fits:

[Jaguar, Jag MWD+Web+RLII]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Fleeting Progressive Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Medium Shield Extender II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket

Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I



[Jaguar, Gistii Boosted w/Nos+MWD]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
Fleeting Progressive Warp Scrambler I

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain

Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I



[Jaguar, Jag 2MSE+MWD]
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation
Gyrostabilizer II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Fleeting Progressive Warp Scrambler I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

These are all very nasty, run them in EFT to get the stats.

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:07:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Ze4K DK
Originally by: Orakkus
Really, the biggest strength to the Ishkur is its drones. Having the ability to field a fleet of light drones right from the get-go, with the potential of either two full fleets or a flight of medium drones (at AF level V) make this AF very deadly..



Why on earth would you put medium drones in it?


Never said I would, just said you could as an option. Though possibly, such a configuration could be useful in certain situations, like 0.0 gate camps where there may already be plenty of pilots fielding light drones. That being said, it still would likely be better to keep to two flights of light drones.

ArkAngel666
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:16:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: ArkAngel666
Originally by: Zaius Caine
Originally by: ArkAngel666
Edited by: ArkAngel666 on 04/08/2009 02:31:28
I just recently sold my gal character and picked up a minnie one. So far out of all the ships my gal character could fly the only one I am missing is the Ishkur. I am one of those strange people that aren't in FW but really love flying AF's.

I have ZERO experience with the minnie AF's. But what I do know is I LOVED my Ishkur. It would only take me 10 days to train gal frig to 5 but my question is will I fall on love with the min AF's? How do they compare to the Ishkur?


Like you, I fly mostly AF's and the Minnie and Gal AF's are the best in the game. I personally favor the Wolf and Jag. I love the raw gankage the Wolf provides and the versatility and heavy tackle of the Jag. In the end, its really all about personal play style. If you decide to take the Minnie road, let me know and I'll set you up with some kick-arse loadouts.


I will most likley fo the minnie route as even though 10 days isint a ton of time it's still time I could be using to train something else more useful. Tjis is the fit I was flying last night. I am slo always happy to see others fits. Varitey is the spice of life ;)

[Jaguar, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I

Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Small Shield Booster II
Medium Shield Extender II

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small 'Ghoul' Energy Siphon I

Projectile Burst Aerator I
Projectile Collision Accelerator I



Shield booster and extender? Heretic!

Web or invul tbh


30 passive regen and nice buffer from the MSE, turn the booster on to bump it up to 87. Herecy you say? I think not.

Zal Dakkar
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:17:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
Originally by: Ze4K DK
Originally by: Orakkus
Really, the biggest strength to the Ishkur is its drones. Having the ability to field a fleet of light drones right from the get-go, with the potential of either two full fleets or a flight of medium drones (at AF level V) make this AF very deadly..



Why on earth would you put medium drones in it?


Never said I would, just said you could as an option. Though possibly, such a configuration could be useful in certain situations, like 0.0 gate camps where there may already be plenty of pilots fielding light drones. That being said, it still would likely be better to keep to two flights of light drones.

It would never be useful.

5 lights >> 1 medium and 3 lights >> 2 mediums and 1 light

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.08.04 18:21:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Orakkus on 04/08/2009 18:22:58
Originally by: Zal Dakkar


5 lights >> 1 medium and 3 lights >> 2 mediums and 1 light


Ooops.. My bad. Forgot about drone bandwidth, you are right.

Edit: made technical mistake


Drek Grapper
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:20:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Zaius Caine
Edited by: Zaius Caine on 04/08/2009 18:05:13
Here are a few of my favorite Jaguar fits:

[Jaguar, Jag 2MSE+MWD]
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation
Gyrostabilizer II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Fleeting Progressive Warp Scrambler I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

These are all very nasty, run them in EFT to get the stats.


This fit is 3 over on grid (and i have a 3% Grid implant)...only fits if u drop MWD for a AB.

Zaius Caine
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:33:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Drek Grapper
Originally by: Zaius Caine
Edited by: Zaius Caine on 04/08/2009 18:05:13
Here are a few of my favorite Jaguar fits:

[Jaguar, Jag 2MSE+MWD]
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation
Gyrostabilizer II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Fleeting Progressive Warp Scrambler I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

These are all very nasty, run them in EFT to get the stats.


This fit is 3 over on grid (and i have a 3% Grid implant)...only fits if u drop MWD for a AB.


Yeah, all you need is the 3% and it works. Never been able to get EFT to take into account the effect of grid/cpu implants. And you should certainly feel free to swap out the MWD for AB as the situation dictates (allowing you to do some other fine tuning as well), I've just been enjoying the MWD a lot more lately.

Canaloney Soup
Posted - 2009.08.04 23:58:00 - [26]
 

[Lows]
Damage Control II
2 Shield Power Relay II

[Mids]
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Shield Extender II

[High]
3 150mm Light AutoCannon II
Rocket Launcher II

[Rigs]
Projectile Burst Aerator I
Projectile Collision Accelerator I

Drek Grapper
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.05 00:12:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Zaius Caine
Originally by: Drek Grapper


This fit is 3 over on grid (and i have a 3% Grid implant)...only fits if u drop MWD for a AB.


Yeah, all you need is the 3% and it works. Never been able to get EFT to take into account the effect of grid/cpu implants. And you should certainly feel free to swap out the MWD for AB as the situation dictates (allowing you to do some other fine tuning as well), I've just been enjoying the MWD a lot more lately.


No. What i am saying is...that doesn't fit...even with a 3% grid implant.

It does however fit if you drop a gyro for a T2 PDU.

Hence...

[Jaguar, Jag 2MSE+MWD]
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation
Power Diagnostic System II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Fleeting Progressive Warp Scrambler I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I




Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2009.08.05 06:59:00 - [28]
 

i've always liked the look of the minnie AFs, yet in my time on sisi, they used to be quite an equal foe with me in the ishkur. a wolf / jag comes in and i have to get ready for a tight match. so, i would say theyre both equal in terms of power, just dependent on play style :)

rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2009.08.05 09:54:00 - [29]
 

after rig changes.. everyone will be flying this

[Ishkur, dual AB/MWD]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer II

Warp Scrambler II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Nosferatu II

Ancillary Current Router I
Ancillary Current Router I


Warrior II x5

can you say versatile?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.08.05 10:08:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
Ooops.. My bad. Forgot about drone bandwidth, you are right.

Edit: made technical mistake



Well, before the drone bandwidth was introduced the standard Ishkur fit was 5 x medium drones which was quite painful.


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