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Gsptlsnz
Posted - 2009.08.01 09:41:00 - [1]
 

I'm a new player trying to get a feel for EvE's PvP style. Obviously this is rather difficult since new players aren't really able to participate.

My initial impression is that balanced fights are universaly avoided. I expected pod-killing (which does not benefit the attacker) to be the exception, but it seems to be the rule.

Obviously there's nothing "wrong" with this, but I'm not looking for justice I play games for fun. My kind of PvP fun includs situations where both sides have a reasonable chance to win. The more I learn about EvE the less likely it seems there is any room in the game for that.

Swatyy
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2009.08.01 10:00:00 - [2]
 

The problem with "fair" PvP is that it's really easy to lose. People don't like losing, so they stack the odds with overwhelming firepower.

It should be expected. I have no idea why people think that PvP should be fair. In truth, it can't be since fittings dictate any battle and setups are legion.

For example, a Harbinger can be an anti-frig/cruiser platform, but you have to sacrifice mods that make you effective against other battlecruisers and battleships. Conversely, you can build an effective anti-battleship BC, but frigate swarms will tear you a new one.

So you can't really get a fair fight anyway, unless both parties are fitting specifically for the occasion. That rarely happens outside a tournament setting.

Madner Kami
Gallente
Durendal Ascending
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2009.08.01 10:01:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Madner Kami on 01/08/2009 10:10:43
Basic rule for any game: If you're fighting a fair fight, you did something terribly wrong.

Having said that: If you alone can not win, get buddies. Quantity beats Quality. This is true especially for EVE. Fair fights only have a room in training combat with buddies, during tournaments or honorthingamabobdoos.

The AEther
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.08.01 10:10:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Gsptlsnz
I'm a new player trying to get a feel for EvE's PvP style. Obviously this is rather difficult since new players aren't really able to participate.

My initial impression is that balanced fights are universaly avoided. I expected pod-killing (which does not benefit the attacker) to be the exception, but it seems to be the rule.

Obviously there's nothing "wrong" with this, but I'm not looking for justice I play games for fun. My kind of PvP fun includs situations where both sides have a reasonable chance to win. The more I learn about EvE the less likely it seems there is any room in the game for that.

I would not generalize so much as to say that all of EVE avoids fair pvp. It depends on who you are fighting. Majority will not pick a fight unless they are sure for one reason or another that they will win. There is a minority that will engage just about anything for those adrenaline rushes.

Yes, there are hidden benefits in pod killing, including inflicting financial damages to an enemy and taking it out of local area so that it cannot spy or alert other targets.

If you are a new player you aren't excluded from PVP. There is nothing holding you back from pvping except for fear of losing too many times. According to economic report posted back a year or two ago good 75% of characters in EVE had less than 10 mil sp, so majority aren't that old. PVP is not reserved to 50+ mil sp vets. I'd suggest trying factional warfare or joining a pvp corp to show you the ropes. My corp also offers pvp classes (link), unfortunately due to upcoming Alliance Tournament (which btw is an example of fair pvp) next class will be in October.


Swatyy
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2009.08.01 10:12:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Madner Kami
Edited by: Madner Kami on 01/08/2009 10:02:43
Basic rule for any game: If you're fighting a fair fight, you did something terribly wrong.

Having said that: If you alone can not win, get buddies. Quantity beats Quality. This is true especially for EVE.


The best lies are half-truths.

You can wreck all kinds of horror solo if you fit for your engagements. Solo PvP is alive and well, especially in FW.

Go check the top corps in FW and look for the solo killers. Check losses to see what they fly and how they fit. It's a good place to start when developing your own style.

Madner Kami
Gallente
Durendal Ascending
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2009.08.01 10:25:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Madner Kami on 01/08/2009 10:54:48
Originally by: swatyy
You can wreck all kinds of horror solo if you fit for your engagements. Solo PvP is alive and well, especially in FW.


Where exactly did I write or even imply, that you can do nothing alone?

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2009.08.01 11:05:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Madner Kami
Basic rule for any game: If you're fighting a fair fight, you did something terribly wrong.
Having said that: If you alone can not win, get buddies. Quantity beats Quality. This is true especially for EVE.

Solo is fun as hell, or can be, but it has nothing on the 3-5 vs. 3-5 action. The number of variables skyrocket with a handful on each side making it not just fun but challenging, use too many pilots and you barely get to activate modules on a target.
Big fleets/gangs can be fun and all but its more of an arcade shooter than anything.
Originally by: swatyy
Go check the top corps in FW and look for the solo killers. Check losses to see what they fly and how they fit. It's a good place to start when developing your own style.

This is actually pretty good advise. The top killers/corps have been at it for ages and have made all conceivable mistakes in all the sub-bs ship classes so you don't have to.
When I started FW I lost 100M in frigates in no time flat while learning the ropes, my year in 0.0 had taught me nothing remotely resembling what I now consider "true PvP".
I can now take on anything that does not have a neut in my Punisher (almost anything, exaggeration for effect Laughing)

For the original poster; Pod killing IS unnecessary in most cases, personally only do it to select individuals. I don't even have pods on overview any more. To avoid too high isk loss either use cheap implants or none at all and get a jump clone at some point for the non-combat clone.
The best fights I have had so far have been against 2-3 people in slightly inferior ships (ie. me in Interceptor, them in T1 frigates). Those fights always require my best and usually ends with multiple lost ships, sometimes my own.

"Fair fight" as such is very relative, if I start at 0-5km from a Zealot (T2 Cruiser) in my Punisher (T1 Frigate) he dies .. is that fair? If on the other hand distance is 10km+ I will barely be able to blink before dying.
So you see, there is much more to it than plain numbers, sure they give a good indication of what might happen but a lot comes down to circumstances and player skill.

NB: Sorry if the post is a bit messy. Hard keeping up with the stupid thought freight-train.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.08.01 11:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Gsptlsnz
I'm a new player trying to get a feel for EvE's PvP style. Obviously this is rather difficult since new players aren't really able to participate.


New players are not excluded from PVP...


21 day Rifter pilot..

1. Instant Recall I
2. Analytical Mind I
3. Learning I
1. Instant Recall II (21 minutes, 14 seconds)
2. Analytical Mind II (39 minutes, 23 seconds)
3. Learning II (38 minutes, 4 seconds)
4. Instant Recall III (3 hours, 31 minutes, 3 seconds)
5. Analytical Mind III (3 hours, 17 minutes, 51 seconds)
6. Learning III (3 hours, 11 minutes, 52 seconds)
7. Spatial Awareness I (7 minutes, 8 seconds)
8. Iron Will I (7 minutes, 8 seconds)
9. Empathy I (7 minutes, 8 seconds)
10. Spatial Awareness II (33 minutes, 18 seconds)
11. Iron Will II (33 minutes, 18 seconds)
12. Spatial Awareness III (3 hours, 8 minutes, 15 seconds)
13. Iron Will III (3 hours, 8 minutes, 15 seconds)
14. Spatial Awareness IV (17 hours, 45 minutes, 2 seconds)
15. Iron Will IV (17 hours, 45 minutes, 2 seconds)
16. Focus I (22 minutes, 6 seconds)
17. Clarity I (19 minutes, 7 seconds)
18. Focus II (1 hour, 36 minutes, 55 seconds)
19. Clarity II (1 hour, 22 minutes, 22 seconds)
20. Focus III (8 hours, 37 minutes, 44 seconds)
21. Clarity III (7 hours, 13 minutes, 27 seconds)
22. Afterburner I (6 minutes, 22 seconds)
23. Hull Upgrades I (14 minutes, 17 seconds)
24. Hull Upgrades II (1 hour, 6 minutes, 34 seconds)
25. Hull Upgrades III (6 hours, 16 minutes, 31 seconds)
26. Hull Upgrades IV (1 day, 11 hours, 30 minutes, 4 seconds)
27. Small Projectile Turret IV (12 hours, 53 minutes, 33 seconds)
28. Motion Prediction I (10 minutes, 28 seconds)
29. Motion Prediction II (48 minutes, 49 seconds)
30. Motion Prediction III (4 hours, 36 minutes, 7 seconds)
31. Small Projectile Turret V (3 days, 1 hour, 38 minutes, 8 seconds)
32. Small Autocannon Specialization I (15 minutes, 43 seconds)
33. Propulsion Jamming I (21 minutes, 26 seconds)
34. Propulsion Jamming II (1 hour, 39 minutes, 51 seconds)
35. Energy Systems Operation I (7 minutes, 8 seconds)
36. Energy Systems Operation II (33 minutes, 18 seconds)
37. Energy Systems Operation III (3 hours, 8 minutes, 15 seconds)
38. Missile Launcher Operation I (5 minutes, 14 seconds)
39. Missile Launcher Operation II (24 minutes, 25 seconds)
40. Rockets I (5 minutes, 14 seconds)
41. Rockets II (24 minutes, 25 seconds)
42. Rockets III (2 hours, 18 minutes, 3 seconds)
43. Rockets IV (13 hours, 1 minute, 1 second)
44. Rockets V (3 days, 1 hour, 38 minutes, 8 seconds)
45. Rocket Specialization I (15 minutes, 43 seconds)
46. Minmatar Frigate III (4 hours, 36 minutes, 7 seconds)
47. Small Autocannon Specialization II (1 hour, 13 minutes, 13 seconds)
48. Small Autocannon Specialization III (6 hours, 54 minutes, 11 seconds)
49. Rocket Specialization II (1 hour, 13 minutes, 13 seconds)
50. Rocket Specialization III (6 hours, 54 minutes, 11 seconds)
51. Gunnery III (2 hours, 18 minutes, 3 seconds)
52. Gunnery IV (13 hours, 1 minute, 1 second)
53. Gunnery V (3 days, 1 hour, 38 minutes, 8 seconds)
54. Trajectory Analysis I (26 minutes, 12 seconds)
55. Trajectory Analysis II (2 hours, 2 minutes, 3 seconds)
56. Trajectory Analysis III (11 hours, 30 minutes, 18 seconds)
57. Surgical Strike I (20 minutes, 57 seconds)

continued...

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.08.01 11:10:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 01/08/2009 11:20:15

58. Surgical Strike II (1 hour, 37 minutes, 37 seconds)
59. Surgical Strike III (9 hours, 12 minutes, 15 seconds)
60. Repair Systems I (7 minutes, 8 seconds)
61. Repair Systems II (33 minutes, 18 seconds)
62. Repair Systems III (3 hours, 8 minutes, 15 seconds)
63. Mechanic III (3 hours, 8 minutes, 15 seconds)
64. Rapid Launch I (10 minutes, 28 seconds)
65. Rapid Launch II (48 minutes, 49 seconds)
66. Rapid Launch III (4 hours, 36 minutes, 7 seconds)
67. Missile Launcher Operation III (2 hours, 18 minutes, 3 seconds)
68. Missile Projection I (20 minutes, 57 seconds)
69. Missile Projection II (1 hour, 37 minutes, 37 seconds)
70. Missile Projection III (9 hours, 12 minutes, 15 seconds)
71. Target Navigation Prediction I (10 minutes, 28 seconds)
72. Target Navigation Prediction II (48 minutes, 49 seconds)
73. Target Navigation Prediction III (4 hours, 36 minutes, 7 seconds)
74. Minmatar Frigate IV (1 day, 2 hours, 2 minutes, 3 seconds)
75. Afterburner II (29 minutes, 42 seconds)
76. Afterburner III (2 hours, 47 minutes, 53 seconds)
77. Acceleration Control I (25 minutes, 29 seconds)
78. Acceleration Control II (1 hour, 58 minutes, 44 seconds)
79. Acceleration Control III (11 hours, 11 minutes, 40 seconds)
80. Evasive Maneuvering I (12 minutes, 44 seconds)
81. Evasive Maneuvering II (59 minutes, 22 seconds)
82. Evasive Maneuvering III (5 hours, 35 minutes, 49 seconds)
83. Warp Drive Operation I (6 minutes, 22 seconds)
84. Warp Drive Operation II (29 minutes, 42 seconds)
85. Warp Drive Operation III (2 hours, 47 minutes, 53 seconds)


Most of this fits in the 100% bonus and this was calculated by the base starting point with no remaps. That will get you on your way to killing a lot of frigs 1 vs 1. Train up some of the 3's to 4's eventually and maybe add Amarr frig 4 to use a Punisher AC/sm neut set up later on. You can easily be a killer in 1 month in this game, if you try.

btw that plan was set up to make a killer in under 21 days using the buddy trial program (takes 17 days I think) You have the option of skipping the rocket/missle skills if you want to just use neuts/nos in your utility spots. You could then add that time gained toward training some of the LVL3's to 4's. (I just like rockets on my rifters for max damage out put)

edit.. forgot to say I made this plan using +3 implants

Psychotic Maniac
Caldari
Head Shrinkers
Posted - 2009.08.01 11:12:00 - [10]
 

Ever heard the saying. "Nothing fair in love and war."

Willem Revolati
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.08.01 11:23:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Gsptlsnz
My initial impression is that balanced fights are universaly avoided. I expected pod-killing (which does not benefit the attacker) to be the exception, but it seems to be the rule.



By balanced do you mean in terms of numbers in the fleet or the quality of the player? You'd be surprised how little your numbers can count for when you come up against a much smaller fleet of much more experienced pvp'ers.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.08.01 11:24:00 - [12]
 

we have some arranged fights every now and then wich are great, but sadly they dont happen often enough

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2009.08.01 11:31:00 - [13]
 

If you're in a fair fight, you did something wrong.

Skallebank
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.01 12:13:00 - [14]
 

I've been pvping for well over 3 years , still have alot to learn but Id like to say new players have plenty of chance to pvp. my best advice is join eve university or another pvp school even agony unleased is great for learning the ropes. once you have the basics you can join a more proficent pvp corp , pirate corps are also a great way to learn .

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.01 13:28:00 - [15]
 

Quote:
I have no idea why people think that PvP should be fair

Because it is more fun?

Mitch Taylor
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2009.08.01 14:14:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: ArmyOfMe
we have some arranged fights every now and then wich are great, but sadly they dont happen often enough


Is it someone from your corp who runs that nifty looking arena site?

Meridius Dex
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.08.01 14:18:00 - [17]
 

OP, you are correct. As this is my first MMO (been playing for just under two years now), I cannot say this is the way all such games are, but I know EVE is all about the blob and cheap gankings. Everyone does it.. 90% of all your fights will involve one side or the other bringing in their oversized mob to gank that one sucker trying to solo.

I get the impression you mean 'fair' to be in terms of numbers and not some nebulous idea about similar skill levels or ship fittings. And it is in numbers that EVE truly sucks as a combat experience. The mechanics of EVE are such that greater numbers are always beneficial and bait-and-blob is the oldest and most tired, common tactic in the game.

The more you play EVE (and this, sadly, now includes Faction Warfare) you realize that - 90% of the time - you are either the ganker or the gankee. If you want balanced, exciting forms of combat that truly rely on skill and tactics you're more than likely going to want to stick with console gaming, tbqfh.

General Coochie
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2009.08.01 14:40:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: General Coochie on 01/08/2009 14:43:50

Even if the odds are stacked against you it doesn't mean you can't get out on top.

I'm gonna do some self promotion for my own video (link in my signature). I fly a t1 fitted frigate (incursus, t1 gallente frigate) taking on a corp that do exactly what you describe, pretty much only engage in unfair fights where they have superior strength.

I could also recommend Garmons new video it has a lot of against the odds fights but he uses t2 mods etc which I reckon is still far away from you.

If you know PvP and know how to pilot your ship there is a lot of "unfair" fights that you can win in eve.

Yes fair fights are very often avoided by many players, most ppl won't engage unless they think they have a good chance of winning. Therefor eve solo PvP is about making the enemy think he can win but instead you bring him a really good fight.


Quote:
The more you play EVE (and this, sadly, now includes Faction Warfare) you realize that - 90% of the time - you are either the ganker or the gankee. If you want balanced, exciting forms of combat that truly rely on skill and tactics you're more than likely going to want to stick with console gaming, tbqfh.


Just because everyone does it doesn't mean you have to. If you want solo PvP its there for you to take.

TraininVain
Posted - 2009.08.01 15:08:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: TraininVain on 01/08/2009 15:15:25
There's no real reason not to pod kill.

It costs your opponent ISK in implants, adds to your corpse collection, gets them off the field and the cruelty of it is amusing.

I tend not to as a courtesy when someone has given me an enjoyable 1vs1 but that's just me.

There's no real reason not to gank either but people may offer you a 1vs1 or similar fair fight if they find it entertaining to do so.

Some people like to be really efficient.

Necrotic Zeal
Posted - 2009.08.01 15:52:00 - [20]
 

The fact of the matter is you won't get "fair" PvP unless you had the same ship/setup/skills as your opponent. Obviously the chances of this happening are slim to none. Someone will always have the advantage, but do to the fluid and dynamic nature of EVE combat, that advantage can easily be lost.

The best thing you can do to give both parties a reasonable chance to win is go hunting by yourself and find a target that is in the same ship class/ ship as you. To all those folks that say solo PVP is dead I say "Nay, 'tis alive and well"

Grim Asse
Posted - 2009.08.01 17:45:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Grim Asse on 01/08/2009 17:54:09
I think it's a common misconception to assume Eve PvP starts when the guns are activated.

The "fight" starts long before that - when you decide which skills to prioritize on, which corp you join, which FC you follow, which ship you fit and what you fit it with and when to engage or to run. The actual "duking it out" is just the tip of the iceberg.

In regards to the fact that everyone has the same prerequisites considering above decisions, Eve PvP is perfectly fair.

Noone can really complain about Eve PvP being unfair and constantly getting popped when he decides to train lots of industry skills along with Minmatar cruisers to level one, refuses to join anything but noobcorp and listen to advice, gets a Stabber, fits it with all types of guns a heavy armor tank, no propulsion mod and enters lowsec, engaging the first bait-drake he spots whilst sitting still in a spot.

The explosion of the ship is just the final confirmation numerous decisions have been wrong, but at countelss points, you had the opportunity to chose otherwise, which is what your opponent(s) most likely did, so it's perfectly fair.


Of course the way one pilots his ships and knows his timers has an influence on the outcome, but eventually, anyone but the dumbest person will have mastered those to near perfection, so those differences willl be negated at some point (moreover there's nothing unfair with messing things up less than others in the actual fight).

Of course the failed decisions don't have to be as exaggarated as above - often very little is enough to decide over the outcome - but in most cases, the fight is won or lost before the first mod is activated.

The battle starts at character creation and only ends if you decide PvP isn't fun for you anymore - and the purpose is fun - killmails are a mere byproduct.

waruiushiro
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2009.08.01 18:13:00 - [22]
 

There's no use in complaining about ganks or blobs, if people have that many active pilots in combat ships, then no one is going to be asked to stay home or miss a kill.
If you get ganked, it's your fault for getting ganked. It's pretty damn easy to avoid once you know what you're doing.

And there's nothing wrong with taking the bait, killing the bait, and possibly a couple others down before popping.

TBH, if you want solo combat, just ask for it. 99% of pirates will honor an arranged 1v1, though you'd better have a well-fit ship, the SP to back it up, and some sort of edge like an implant set.
Everyone loves a well-matched solo fight, so just going through your major pirate systems like Tama and Amamake and saying '1v1 anyone?' will get you a good amount of fights without having to worry about bait.

If someone dishonors a 1v1, feel free to troll them until your fingers bleed.

Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.01 20:57:00 - [23]
 

My general definition of "fair" is to know what one goes into. Exeptions are any (if any) cheats, and familiar exploits to some degree.

So imo, knowing what you are getting yourself into covers all ones need for fairness.

Azirapheal
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.08.01 22:00:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Gsptlsnz
I'm a new player trying to get a feel for EvE's PvP style. Obviously this is rather difficult since new players aren't really able to participate.

My initial impression is that balanced fights are universaly avoided. I expected pod-killing (which does not benefit the attacker) to be the exception, but it seems to be the rule.

Obviously there's nothing "wrong" with this, but I'm not looking for justice I play games for fun. My kind of PvP fun includs situations where both sides have a reasonable chance to win. The more I learn about EvE the less likely it seems there is any room in the game for that.



new characters can indeed and are valuable assets to any pvp corporation. cheap throwaway tacklers and ofc as your skills increase you will become ever more useful, at 5 hours old you can web and scram a 5billion isk ship stationary (cost is based on fittings and may or may not be realistic but you get the freaking point)

if only the germans had been fair on the polish.... ive been in fights on both sides and ive won from both perspectives... and all i have learned so far is that if its a fair fight, someone screwed up and your assets are at unnecessary risk... but hey what do i know, i lived almost soley off pvp for the last 3 years...

try a bit of unfair pvp, grief, let your darkside out.

irl im a nurse, and my ability to go psychopathic in this game stops me from doing a harold shipman on hte old dears ;)

SquadBroken
Helljumpers
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:45:00 - [25]
 

"fair" hahahahhahahahahah

Oh god. Quit now before this game eats you alive.

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2009.08.02 02:52:00 - [26]
 

i contend that there is no "unfair" pvp in eve, every loss has it's origin in your own decision making. prove me wrong.

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.08.02 02:55:00 - [27]
 

There is a lot more to ganked or be ganked in EVE PvP.

You have to get a thick skin when you start. You will get blown up, you will have entire corps hop onto you and its a good chance that the Maller ship is bait...

But it evens out. For every time you'll get ganked, you'll get a chance to repay the favor, or maybe a really nice 1 vs 1.

Friggz
Dirt Nap Squad
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:51:00 - [28]
 

It depends on what you feel is 'fair'

My opinion is all PvP in eve is 'fair' because its up to you to put yourself into situations where you inherently have an advantage, and to avoid situations where you inherently are at a disadvantage.

All Warfare is based on Deception.

If you think a battle begins when you engage the enemy, your dead wrong. It begins every time you undock. Why fight a battle you can lose when you can force your enemy to fight on your terms where they believe they can win, but they actual have no chance?

Forcing your enemy into a situation where you have a distinct advantage is part of the battle. Of course, I'm a sneaky bastard in a Black Ops corp, so my opinion may be slightly bias. Laughing

Toxif
Minmatar
Hmmzor.
Enforcers of Serenity
Posted - 2009.08.02 03:56:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Toxif on 02/08/2009 04:05:54
1. If you entered a fair fight, someone did something horribly wrong.

2. New players fail to realize that you don't need to be able to fly a t2 fitted battleship to take part in PvP. With half a week's worth of training, you can tackle - ask any of those t2 fitted battleship pilots, and they will agree that the guy flying the crappy tackler frigate is just as important as they are.


*edit* 2b. Tack another few days onto that and you can fly a Caldari ECM boat. It's one thing to be able to blow up an enemy or keep them from being able to move or escape; it's a whole different ballgame if you use ECM, which keeps them from being able to target. An enemy can't do anything if they can't target, and a week-old newbie is able to provide that.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.08.02 08:03:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 02/08/2009 08:10:48
The only reason why pvp in eve is fun is because it doesnt necessarily has to be fair.

Whenever you take a fight you could end up taking on more than you initially expected (be it more numbers or simply better players), thats what gives the rush imo.

If you want fair fights, there is always the test server where nobody loses anything and its reasonable to have "fair" duels or engagements.



About the pod killing thing, well eve isnt a game where you make prisoners usually Wink

It might be harsh for you as a new player that the seasoned pilots will not go easy on you, but thats their way to mold you into a battle-hardened vet.


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