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blankseplocked Sooo CCP when can i contract broken crystals?
 
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Sherringford Hovis
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2009.08.01 12:17:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Seishi Maru

so just make possible that when you contrat a laser ship all used crystals are removed from the ship automagically. As of now handling distant ammar ships is a PAIN!



This is, I think, the simplest and best solution. If you contract a ship with rail guns it automatically removes charges, so the coding is already there.

Hairygoagain
Posted - 2009.08.01 13:27:00 - [92]
 

Wow\, lots of people posting here who have obviously never used a laser on a ship:

1. To those that say 'Just remove them from the weapons, like other guns'. Nice idea, but what about the ones in your cargo hold?

2. To those that say 'why do you have them in the cargohold'. Learn how lasers work, there are different crystals for different ranges, so you swap them out as required. A ship with normal ammo in the hold can be contracted, a ship with used crystals in the hold can't.

Jenny' JoJo
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.08.01 13:52:00 - [93]
 

Unused and fitted crystals are registered as damaged when they are not. Even if they are in your cargo. Hopefully the devs can fix this by letting them dump into hanger.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.01 15:49:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Hairygoagain
Wow\, lots of people posting here who have obviously never used a laser on a ship:

1. To those that say 'Just remove them from the weapons, like other guns'. Nice idea, but what about the ones in your cargo hold?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and please correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't you take them out of the cargo hold at the same time as you take them out of the weapons? Dunno, just an odd thought that crossed my mind.

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.01 16:04:00 - [95]
 

Why can't the crystals just be removed so the ship can be contracted? bugger repairing them, just allow the ship to be moved, that's kinda stupid otherwise.

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.08.01 18:14:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 01/08/2009 18:17:53

I was never bitter about the amarr ammo situation, I considered it was the price you pay for having the most cheap lightweight ammo in all the game, with infinite tech 1 counterparts.

Oh and as someone else mentioned, crystals swap out in like 2 seconds.

Does the best damage per range of any weapon.

If the enemy kill you, they get crap loot they can't sell or do anything with.

Enkidu Uruksen
Wakizashi Renaissance
Posted - 2009.08.01 19:31:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Allowing damaged items to be contracted would benefit scammers. We do not intend to allow damaged items to be contracted.

OK, fine. What do you suggest we do with damaged crystals that we can't use? Trash them?

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.08.01 19:53:00 - [98]
 

The real point is, and I'm assuming this is what the OP means, is that any ship you have with T2 crystals (that have been used) can't be contracted. The point is not selling the crystals, the point is not being able to remotely sell the ship. I bet there's a whole ton of amarr ships rotting away in some station that's either too far away or you don't have access too anymore, simply because you fired the guns once.

Not being able to contract damaged good is a choice and as a choice that's ok, I don't for a second believe it's about "not wanting people to get scammed" but has everything to do with database issues. That's all good but at least let us "remove damaged goods from ship" from range then, or at least "remove all ammo and drones". So people can actually sell their stuff.

This reasoning isn't rocket science, it's just logical.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.01 19:58:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Enkidu Uruksen
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Allowing damaged items to be contracted would benefit scammers. We do not intend to allow damaged items to be contracted.

OK, fine. What do you suggest we do with damaged crystals that we can't use? Trash them?
Keep a spare set in the cargohold which will automatically switch out when a crystal breaks? It's not like there is a 10 second reload when that happens. Wink

Enkidu Uruksen
Wakizashi Renaissance
Posted - 2009.08.01 20:47:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Enkidu Uruksen
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Allowing damaged items to be contracted would benefit scammers. We do not intend to allow damaged items to be contracted.

OK, fine. What do you suggest we do with damaged crystals that we can't use? Trash them?
Keep a spare set in the cargohold which will automatically switch out when a crystal breaks? It's not like there is a 10 second reload when that happens. Wink

Repeating:
Quote:
crystals that we can't use

I don't use weapon crystals. I've picked some up from wrecks. They're useful to somebody, but not to me, so there should be a way to get isk for them, such as reprocessing for whatever percent is left on them.

Clearer?

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.01 20:50:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Zeba on 01/08/2009 20:52:22

Originally by: Enkidu Uruksen
I don't use weapon crystals. I've picked some up from wrecks. They're useful to somebody, but not to me, so there should be a way to get isk for them, such as reprocessing for whatever percent is left on them. Clearer?
Sell, trade or give them to a trusted corp mate who uses t2 lasers then drop them in a can in space or open a trade window to finish the deal? Sheese you guys are not very creative.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2009.08.01 21:53:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Be a bit more respectful of the developers please when they are actually taking the time to discuss with us.

...even if explorer is only cherry picking and deflecting the easy arguments concerning crystals.
I'm simply replying to the OP's question: "Sooo CCP when can i contract broken crystals?"

Jenny' JoJo
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.08.01 22:16:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Jenny'' JoJo on 01/08/2009 22:16:55
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Be a bit more respectful of the developers please when they are actually taking the time to discuss with us.

...even if explorer is only cherry picking and deflecting the easy arguments concerning crystals.
I'm simply replying to the OP's question: "Sooo CCP when can i contract broken crystals?"



Agree with the comment that damaged crystals should not be contracted. I understand that it is not fair putting you on the spot, but could you bring to the attention of whoever is responsible the following.

1. Fitting t2/faction crystals are considered broken without firing a single shot. To test, just fir a t2 crystal and unfit it. Notice how its broken even though not a single shot has been fired.

2. Inability to remove crystals from contracting a ship. Even if damaged items get dumped into a hanger or whatever.

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.01 22:41:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Jenny' JoJo
Edited by: Jenny'' JoJo on 01/08/2009 22:16:55
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Be a bit more respectful of the developers please when they are actually taking the time to discuss with us.

...even if explorer is only cherry picking and deflecting the easy arguments concerning crystals.
I'm simply replying to the OP's question: "Sooo CCP when can i contract broken crystals?"



Agree with the comment that damaged crystals should not be contracted. I understand that it is not fair putting you on the spot, but could you bring to the attention of whoever is responsible the following.

1. Fitting t2/faction crystals are considered broken without firing a single shot. To test, just fir a t2 crystal and unfit it. Notice how its broken even though not a single shot has been fired.

2. Inability to remove crystals from contracting a ship. Even if damaged items get dumped into a hanger or whatever.

Arguably fitting a crystal alters it, rather than placing it between a lens or what-not.

Although the second point is very valid.

fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.08.01 23:02:00 - [105]
 

Makes sense to have crystals unload to hangar when contracted in line with all the other ammo/drone types.
To implement this should be dead easy if I'm not mistaken.

Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2009.08.02 00:45:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Allowing damaged items to be contracted would benefit scammers. We do not intend to allow damaged items to be contracted.


How about switching the order of the existing checks, so that the "are there loaded guns on the ship?" comes before the "is something damaged?" check instead of after.

If I try to contract a Vagabond with loaded guns, it removes the ammo because the container nesting would be too deep for the contract system (well, that's what I assume the reason is).

If I try to contract a Zealot with loaded guns, the contract UI aborts because damaged ammo is loaded just before it would unload it anyway.

A little reshuffling would do a lot of good here.

The option to remove damaged items from cargo / drone bay would require coding and isn't a big priority. But switching the order of the checks should amount to only a bit of cut & paste.

Cilvius Sanctus
Gallente
The Order of Chivalry
Nex Eternus
Posted - 2009.08.02 02:58:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Be a bit more respectful of the developers please when they are actually taking the time to discuss with us.

...even if explorer is only cherry picking and deflecting the easy arguments concerning crystals.
I'm simply replying to the OP's question: "Sooo CCP when can i contract broken crystals?"


Let's change the question then. CCP, when can I repair damaged drones in a ship's drone bay remotely? When can damaged crystals be removed from guns/cargo automatically when contracting a ship?

Amber Bock
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2009.08.02 05:16:00 - [108]
 

You can courier contract ships with damaged crystals and get around the warning. As long as the ship is smaller then 120k. You can also do that with cans or damaged mods. CCP should make it so you can empty a ships guns, cargo, and drone bay remotely.

Mr Opinions
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:38:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Mr Opinions on 02/08/2009 09:39:03
A simple solution would seem to be to do two things:

1. a warning to the person contracting the ship away with broken crystals in it, to the affect that:

Warning: Any damaged ammunition present in this ship will be destroyed in setting up this contract! Do you wish to proceed?

The potential receiver never sees the damaged ammo (crystals) in the contract at all, since they have been destroyed. But the ship can still be traded without anyone having to fish out all the broken crystals, etc.

2. allow damaged crystals to be destroyed via the assets panel

---

Problems solved ... perhaps not the way the OP would have liked, but in a way which the devs would accept. Cool


Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2009.08.04 07:59:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Be a bit more respectful of the developers please when they are actually taking the time to discuss with us.

...even if explorer is only cherry picking and deflecting the easy arguments concerning crystals.
I'm simply replying to the OP's question: "Sooo CCP when can i contract broken crystals?"


its not about selling them. LEts say you need to move a ship of an corp member by carrier, if that ship has 1 single damage crystal its simply impossible to contract it..
Or someone need to point out how i can overcome this feature.



Saffin
Posted - 2009.08.04 10:03:00 - [111]
 

I would like to see you having the option to repair all when you contract it.

Make it cost +20% of the actual repair cost of if you where in the station as you are playing the third party contract broker to repair you stuff before setting up your contract.

Saff

Mark Interiis
Gallente
Golden Horse Trading Company
Posted - 2009.08.04 11:44:00 - [112]
 

The same terms apply to all other ships because you can't have a populated container inside during contract. Just clear out the cargo and charges when you're leaving the ship for an extended time.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2009.08.04 11:51:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/08/2009 11:51:38
Could someone tell me;

- Why would you need to give other players damaged crystals?
- Why can't you do it in trade?
- Why can't you take te crystals out of the ships before contracting ships?

Also;

Want to sell slightly used exotic dancers Laughing

wakalaka
Information And Entropy
Posted - 2009.08.04 13:09:00 - [114]
 

As many people have already told, the problem happens when contracting a ship that you cannot fly and that has crystals loaded. You cannot unfit the crystals, cannot repair the crystals, and cannot contract the ship. You could repackage the ship, but then you're losing the rigs and the fitting setup.

This happens a lot in a corporate environment, and saying it's "working as intended" is to say you're out of touch with the game.

When setting up a contract, it should give the option to unfit the crystals, whenever you can or cannot fly the ship. I don't like the idea of allowing to contract damaged modules though.

But I don't think it's the most annoying feature on the contracting system :) That would be the impossibility to make charge backs.

Anvalor
Gallente
Germania Inc.
D0GMA
Posted - 2009.08.04 14:55:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/08/2009 11:51:38
Could someone tell me;

- Why would you need to give other players damaged crystals?
- Why can't you do it in trade?
- Why can't you take te crystals out of the ships before


I pvp alot, which means there are quite often crystals in the loot (if my gang and me wins Very Happy)
We have one amarr specialized guy in our ally who is not online as often as i am. So if he comes online i have to go to the system where the crystals are to trade it to him, which means that i would need to leave the roaming gang or the gatecamp and so on. It would be much easier if i could contract himn the damaged crystals. I do not understand why ccp does not change this. I mean they allow you to scam about everything but when it comes to crystalls they do not.

Not that i want to scam with it, but i want to get rid off the loot i do not need without moving to that station. Well i adapted a bit and have all crystalls in a can now and just give them to the amarr guy when i am in that station. Smile

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2009.08.05 09:11:00 - [116]
 

anyway i figure not many people of ccp actualy fly amarr actively..

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2009.08.05 09:23:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Anvalor
I pvp alot, which means there are quite often crystals in the loot (if my gang and me wins Very Happy)
We have one amarr specialized guy in our ally who is not online as often as i am. So if he comes online i have to go to the system where the crystals are to trade it to him, which means that i would need to leave the roaming gang or the gatecamp and so on. It would be much easier if i could contract himn the damaged crystals. I do not understand why ccp does not change this. I mean they allow you to scam about everything but when it comes to crystalls they do not.

Not that i want to scam with it, but i want to get rid off the loot i do not need without moving to that station. Well i adapted a bit and have all crystalls in a can now and just give them to the amarr guy when i am in that station. Smile


Well, i can see how that could be a problem, but you could do the following;

Set up a secure can(or few in few systems) somewhere that is a "corp drop" location.
Use corp hangars for "useless junk".

I doubt the risk of scammers and all the petitions etc that go along with it, not to mention work(they could create that anything can be given with a "give contract"), is worth the little time your corpmate has to wait for those crystals.

There are solutions, but is some peoples extra work worth some peoples extra agony?

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2009.08.05 09:28:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Sheriff Jones

Could someone tell me;

- Why would you need to give other players damaged crystals?
- Why can't you do it in trade?
- Why can't you take te crystals out of the ships before contracting ships?



Oh jones... Jones jones..

"I need a ship in amamake right now, can anyone contract me something?"
"Yes, I have a geddon in there already fitted. I'll contract it to you asap... Oh wait, I actually used that geddon once."
"Well never mind, the fleet's gone now."

It's not about extra work. It's about not being able to do it at all.


Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.08.05 09:47:00 - [119]
 

It would be nice to at least be able to make "gift"-type contracts with damaged crystals or other items.

I use zero ISK contracts a lot, to transfer items between my alts, or sometimes between one of my characters and another corp member.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2009.08.05 09:54:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Frug
Oh jones... Jones jones..

"I need a ship in amamake right now, can anyone contract me something?"
"Yes, I have a geddon in there already fitted. I'll contract it to you asap... Oh wait, I actually used that geddon once."
"Well never mind, the fleet's gone now."

It's not about extra work. It's about not being able to do it at all.




Contracting crystals is a bad idea still. Make a "corporation trade" that allows changing ownership of items. Nothing more.

Also just leave some normal crystals in the hold of the ship for such "panic" situations and when you leave your ship, just remove crystals to station.

Then drag&drop and 2 seconds, you're ready to go with your own ship.


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