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steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.08.12 02:55:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Trimutius III
Originally by: Ecky X

4 times better LOCAL tank, with the ability to be remote repaired or have cap transfered to you removed.

Situationally useful.


Better then overheating your armor rep in critical situation if u have fuel for triage (when there is nobody who can remote rep u atm but friends are to come soon)

In most scenarios, you'd be better off with an extra neut or smartbomb, but yes, they are indeed situationally useful. Triage carriers

Severice
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2009.08.12 04:18:00 - [212]
 

Anyone who has been on Sisi lately has notice a change in capital ships. Most note able, the fuel bay. This, like the MB/s change have been touted as "We are going to limit you in X fashion, so we can give you more." Ie bigger drone bays so we could have backup flights on drones on ships like the thorax and the vexor and the myrmidon. What did the MB/s change do? It limited ships in a very specific way. What did it give us? A 25m3 increase to the myrmidon drone bay, and a 25m3 increase to the vexor. (pretty sure that was it.) That's pretty much it.

Now CCP has announced FUEL BAYS (WHOORA WHOOO Fanfare of the incompetent) With the concept of We will limit your cargo bay in X fasion so you can carry more fuel. Good right? yes i love the idea. Results:
Thanny (old) 3,500 m3 cargo bay, modules to increase this 1 Cargo expander Rigs to increase this 1 Expanded cargoholds.
Thanny NEW!!!! 875m3 cargo bay, Fuel bay 3,000. Rigs to increase fuel bay... none i can see, mods to increase fuel bay... non i can see.

So total fuel you can/could hold is down 500m3. So far i feel the cold sting of "limit in X to give you... nothing"

How do i use stront? i can't keep it in the cargo bay, do i put it in the fuel bay? How do i keep enough fuel in the cargobay to do a long jump and run triage? Do i have to move it there from the corp hanger? What does adding yet ANOTHER bay to the carrier ADD to the game? The simple answer is it cuts the utility of storage (Stront+fuel mix ect.) and it doesn't give us anything back. It gives 375m3 of "total" storage but it doesn't actually do anything you want. You can't store stront or fuel in it. You dont' need cap boosters, you dont' need ammo your a thanny. What do you put there? Nothing usefull unless you try to jam more stront and fuel in there and transfer it over to the fuel bay by hand. Which will only be a hinderance because you used to have 1 bay that did all that it was called the "cargo bay"

i find a disturbing trend in CCP's ship alteration philosphy and that is "Hey, we own these thips. You will fit them the way we want and expect you too. if you don't we'll just force you to." That is what fuel bays do. They force pilots to use a ship in a specific manner. I liked the idea when it was on par with 6k fuel bay 500m3 cargo bay, for if you can think of something. Gives you lots of fuel options.

Untill you increase the size of fuel bays, they DO NOT add anything to the game except for yet another CCP extravagance to eve that isn't necessary.

Pasha.
Posted - 2009.08.12 05:04:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Pasha. on 12/08/2009 05:35:17
Originally by: Severice

Untill you increase the size of fuel bays, they DO NOT add anything to the game except for yet another CCP extravagance to eve that isn't necessary.

I agree. It's just complicating the game for the sake of complicating it. No benefit other than an occasional pilot can't move little bit of minerals or some modules in their dread.

edit: btw dastomy cracks me up Laughing and I can empathize with the issues he has.

Oarta
Posted - 2009.08.12 07:14:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Severice
How do i use stront? i can't keep it in the cargo bay, do i put it in the fuel bay? How do i keep enough fuel in the cargobay to do a long jump and run triage? Do i have to move it there from the corp hanger? What does adding yet ANOTHER bay to the carrier ADD to the game? The simple answer is it cuts the utility of storage (Stront+fuel mix ect.) and it doesn't give us anything back. It gives 375m3 of "total" storage but it doesn't actually do anything you want. You can't store stront or fuel in it. You dont' need cap boosters, you dont' need ammo your a thanny. What do you put there? Nothing usefull unless you try to jam more stront and fuel in there and transfer it over to the fuel bay by hand. Which will only be a hinderance because you used to have 1 bay that did all that it was called the "cargo bay"



As it was stated previously in the thread, fuel can be pulled from the Fuel Bay and the Cargo Bay. So you do not have to move it back and forth from Cargo to Fuel.

Severice
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2009.08.12 07:48:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Oarta
Originally by: Severice
How do i use stront? i can't keep it in the cargo bay, do i put it in the fuel bay? How do i keep enough fuel in the cargobay to do a long jump and run triage? Do i have to move it there from the corp hanger? What does adding yet ANOTHER bay to the carrier ADD to the game? The simple answer is it cuts the utility of storage (Stront+fuel mix ect.) and it doesn't give us anything back. It gives 375m3 of "total" storage but it doesn't actually do anything you want. You can't store stront or fuel in it. You dont' need cap boosters, you dont' need ammo your a thanny. What do you put there? Nothing usefull unless you try to jam more stront and fuel in there and transfer it over to the fuel bay by hand. Which will only be a hinderance because you used to have 1 bay that did all that it was called the "cargo bay"



As it was stated previously in the thread, fuel can be pulled from the Fuel Bay and the Cargo Bay. So you do not have to move it back and forth from Cargo to Fuel.


Fun. Lemme know when that makes it into the manual. And then tell me when the manual is going to arrive.

Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.12 08:21:00 - [216]
 

Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 12/08/2009 08:22:28
Originally by: Severice
Originally by: Oarta
Originally by: Severice
How do i use stront? i can't keep it in the cargo bay, do i put it in the fuel bay? How do i keep enough fuel in the cargobay to do a long jump and run triage? Do i have to move it there from the corp hanger? What does adding yet ANOTHER bay to the carrier ADD to the game? The simple answer is it cuts the utility of storage (Stront+fuel mix ect.) and it doesn't give us anything back. It gives 375m3 of "total" storage but it doesn't actually do anything you want. You can't store stront or fuel in it. You dont' need cap boosters, you dont' need ammo your a thanny. What do you put there? Nothing usefull unless you try to jam more stront and fuel in there and transfer it over to the fuel bay by hand. Which will only be a hinderance because you used to have 1 bay that did all that it was called the "cargo bay"



As it was stated previously in the thread, fuel can be pulled from the Fuel Bay and the Cargo Bay. So you do not have to move it back and forth from Cargo to Fuel.


Fun. Lemme know when that makes it into the manual. And then tell me when the manual is going to arrive.
Maybe giving some slight indication that you had read the thread you just vomited pixels all over would make those of us who have been discussing and testing these features for weeks a little less hostile to you.

Removing the ammo bay before release is making me even more nervous about the resilience of this functionality.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.08.12 08:51:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Ecky X
Originally by: Trimutius III
Edited by: Trimutius III on 11/08/2009 16:30:01
Edited by: Trimutius III on 11/08/2009 14:39:07
Triage mode is useful unless carriers are cap neutralized to null... (4 times better tank at double capacitor cost not that bad, even if u can't attack and move for 10 minutes)



4 times better LOCAL tank, with the ability to be remote repaired or have cap transfered to you removed.

Situationally useful.


You don't go into triage to help yourself, ffs. You go into it to help your fleet. You might not survive, but the rest of the fleet will be damn hard to kill.

Trige requires relevant skills, the Triage module, enough stront, and balls of steel. Cool

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.08.12 12:53:00 - [218]
 

Quote:
How do i use stront? i can't keep it in the cargo bay, do i put it in the fuel bay?

Yes, you do Wink

Quote:
How do i keep enough fuel in the cargobay to do a long jump and run triage?

You put it in the fuel bay. Very few people use cargo expanders anyway on combat ships in combat, so the combat efficiency has not been changed.

Quote:
What does adding yet ANOTHER bay to the carrier ADD to the game? The simple answer is it cuts the utility of storage

Indeed, it cuts down utility that was never supposed to be there, but rather just a side effect of the fact that caps need to carry fuel, and therefore need a large cargo to do so. Now that a different soloution to that is available, it can be returned to the way it was meant to be.

Quote:
Nothing usefull unless you try to jam more stront and fuel in there and transfer it over to the fuel bay by hand.

Fuel can be taken either from cargo bay or from fuel bay.

However, if you go make a thread is assembly hall or features and ideas forum about a new mod that can increase the size of fuel bays to make up for not being able to cargo expand your carrier to carry more fuel that way, I'll support it.

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.08.12 14:05:00 - [219]
 

I wished ccp would work more on fixing the stupid hangar bay bug. Its the third time in 2 months that I have to send a petition because I cannot access stuff in my own hangar bay (my carrier) after I jump (its there and usable befere jump.. after i Jump becomes invisible and cannot access it, but still uses space. That sided with fact that petitions take 2-3 weeks to respond makes me mad.

If you cannot make even the space the carriers have today work properly how in hell you want to make it 3 times more complicated?

Trimutius III
Avalon Guards
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.08.12 16:40:00 - [220]
 

Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 16:43:24
Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 16:42:44
Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 16:41:42
Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 16:40:25
Originally by: Seishi Maru
I wished ccp would work more on fixing the stupid hangar bay bug. Its the third time in 2 months that I have to send a petition because I cannot access stuff in my own hangar bay (my carrier) after I jump (its there and usable befere jump.. after i Jump becomes invisible and cannot access it, but still uses space. That sided with fact that petitions take 2-3 weeks to respond makes me mad.

If you cannot make even the space the carriers have today work properly how in hell you want to make it 3 times more complicated?

It easy to say why it takes so long to answer petition... YOU SHOULD NOT PETITION IT!!! YOU SHOULD BUG REPORT IT!!!
Bug report could be made here:
https://bugs.eve-online.com/newbugreport.asp
You can see bug reporting in EVE insider. NEVER petition bugs, it is useless to use petition for that matters... (Petitions are needed when u lost something or stuck or something like that)

Though try to close your corp hangar before jump and reopen it after jump maybe it will help to solve problem until they fix bug

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.08.13 00:17:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: Trimutius III
Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 16:43:24
Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 16:42:44
Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 16:41:42
Edited by: Trimutius III on 12/08/2009 16:40:25
Originally by: Seishi Maru
I wished ccp would work more on fixing the stupid hangar bay bug. Its the third time in 2 months that I have to send a petition because I cannot access stuff in my own hangar bay (my carrier) after I jump (its there and usable befere jump.. after i Jump becomes invisible and cannot access it, but still uses space. That sided with fact that petitions take 2-3 weeks to respond makes me mad.

If you cannot make even the space the carriers have today work properly how in hell you want to make it 3 times more complicated?

It easy to say why it takes so long to answer petition... YOU SHOULD NOT PETITION IT!!! YOU SHOULD BUG REPORT IT!!!
Bug report could be made here:
https://bugs.eve-online.com/newbugreport.asp
You can see bug reporting in EVE insider. NEVER petition bugs, it is useless to use petition for that matters... (Petitions are needed when u lost something or stuck or something like that)

Though try to close your corp hangar before jump and reopen it after jump maybe it will help to solve problem until they fix bug


I need to petition as well to get the stuff out of my hangars. I am stuck I can say since I am with a carrier stuck with hangar bay half full that I cannot take anything from it! Bug report will help me nothing by itself to get the stuff out of my own hangar after something is already stuck. I am with amount other things the fuel I need to get out from where I am stuck in my hangar bay of my carrier... This is a known bug, rare but known and reported long ago. A bug that has never been fixed and basically is keeping my character stuck for more than 1 week already.

8AIL
Caldari
Posted - 2009.08.14 07:58:00 - [222]
 

Edited by: 8AIL on 14/08/2009 07:58:42
Originally by: Aramith
ccp may not have invented the carrier, but last i knew of navy logistics practices, the carrier does not refuel the rest of the fleet.

That is the job of the fleet oilers (tanker ships that more closely resemble the industrial ships of eve)


IRL an air craft carrier can fuel destroyers, cruisers and jets that are in its fleet. they hold about 2million gallons of JP5 which is jet fuel/diesel fuel, and gas turbine fuel for the smaller ships (small boys). i was stationed on a air craft carrier

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.14 17:59:00 - [223]
 

My only complaint is still that the carrier has half the fuel bay of the dread. It just shows an obvious disconnect from CCP's game designers. They play with this stuff in a closed, sanitized environment and obviously don't have much of a clue in to how we use these things in the real game.

There isn't even a good reason for it, other than "Carriers are cheaper, thus they must be smaller, haha, smaller fuel bay".

Personally, I think the whole thing is just another system CCP is adding because they can, not because it actually adds anything to the game. That said, we aren't going to change it now, CCP loves to add features to the game no one wants. At the very least, we can request it not be an unbalanced and stupid mess when it releases.

I hate to even ask, but I assume the Rorqual is gonna "get the treatment" and strip it's entire cargo bay?

Ganthrithor
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.14 21:04:00 - [224]
 

Edited by: Ganthrithor on 14/08/2009 21:04:49
Fuel bays are a terrible idea. ITT (as I understand it) CCP spends 6 months working out code to make their gimmicky blackops battleships actually useful and succeeds in breaking the only wonky fit (cargo expanders + rigs) which allowed Blops BS to bridge more than a couple of bombers at a time. Simultaneously they have wrecked carriers' combat support abilities by leaving them with far less fuel space than before and are leaving dreads without the option of doing a cargo-expanded fitting for personal logistics.

I notice they didn't f**k over the Rorqual with their proposed changes (the simply added a fuel/ore bay on top of the ship's existing cargohold), so obviously the message here is "hey-- all you guys who occasionally expanded your dreads to move your junk around? Yeah, you're going to need to go spend a few hundred mil on skillbooks, waste a month or two of training time, and then buy another capital ship which is even more expensive than your dread just so you can move some piles of rat loot or modules around a couple of times a year."

Still, I think my favorite part of this whole poorly thought out proposed change is that it STILL leaves blackops battleships a big steaming pile of useless, gimmicky s**t.

tl;dr give blackops BS a gigantic fuel bay (they need it), give the rorqual an additional ore bay, and leave everything else well-enough alone.

Grifft
Caldari
Griefer-B-Gone
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.08.15 05:46:00 - [225]
 

A few words for CCP to consider:

Boeing B-29 Superfortress;

The B-29 was one of the largest airplanes to see service during World War II. A very advanced bomber for this time period, it included features such as a pressurized cabin, an electronic fire control system, and remote controlled machine-gun turrets. Though it was designed as a high-altitude daytime bomber, in practice it actually flew more low-altitude nighttime incendiary bombing missions. It was the primary aircraft in the American firebombing campaign against the Empire of Japan in the final months of World War II, and carried the atomic bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


At this point you may be thinking that I am typing on the wrong forums. What does the B-29 have anything to do with fuel bays on EVE capital ships? It was certainly an incredible combat aircraft with an impressive bombing record that directly steered the outcome of the second world war. Still, what does this have to do with EVE?

The KB-29 was a modified B-29 used by the USAF as their first mid-air refuelers. These refuelers enabled the first ever, non-stop circumnavigation of the globe.

Wow, can you possibly imagine that a highly effective combat aircraft could be used in a logistics capacity. “Necessity is the mother of invention”, there was a need and a solution. Boeing didn’t tell the Air Force “The B-29 is a combat aircraft not a logistics aircraft” and then go back and change the design of the plane to prevent aerial refueling.

Please stop trying to tell us how to use our ships. Yes we know that carriers and dreads have a role on the battlefield. And many of them are employed in that manner everyday in the universe. But that does not have to be the only thing that they can do. If you want to put fuel bays in caps, fine, but leave the capacities and capabilities that we have come to use and rely on alone. If doing so would create an imbalance, then leave it as it is. No one asked for you to “improve” our capital ships. They just wanted a fix for those ill-conceived, worthless BlackOps BSs. We are quite capable of deciding how to use the ships that we spend so much of our time working towards.

BTW; If I swap out all the low slot fittings on my Nighthawk with cargo expanders I can haul almost 3k m3 of cargo while maintaining aa highly efective tank and a decent damage output to protect itself. Does this infringe on the industrial's roles? Did you never anticipate someone using a commandship like this? Should I expect you to swing the old nerfbat my direction in the next round?

VonCruix
Posted - 2009.08.15 06:10:00 - [226]
 

Originally by: Grifft

...Please stop trying to tell us how to use our ships...
...No one asked for you to “improve” our capital ships...
...We are quite capable of deciding how to use the ships that we spend so much of our time working towards...



Heh, this isn't a "design your own toys" kind of game.

You make do with what the game designers give you, and they've always said that changes are possible, and in many cases, even likely.

If you are unable to adapt and work thru simple things such as this, how can you expect to suceed at life.

Learn to adapt and overcome, and buy a clue to who's game this is. It is not "yours".


Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2009.08.15 11:37:00 - [227]
 

I just read a bunch of this thread.

I'm not in a super mega ultra big alliance with hundreds of members and billions of liquid isk to throw at whatever I need and give it to a corpmate and say "fly this capital ship ok".

I'm the CEO of a small corporation with one carrier and one jump freighter. We just absorbed a mining corporation into our ranks and I had to make numerous jumps with Hulks, Myrmidons, Retrievers, Megathrons, Vexors, frigates.. the list goes on. And I had to move a ton of GSCs as well.

Now, you may be asking why am I posting? It's because I think this is a bad idea. First of all, logistics in my corporation are relegated to a few members with the appropriate skills and proper equipment. My carrier is a multipurpose task machine and I want it to stay that way. If I can slap an honor tank onto it and haul people's crap around then I'm going to get upset because CCP is forcing me to fly my ship only one way.

I won't even have a realistic use for the carrier anymore, as I rarely use it in combat because the sole purpose of the ship is to MOVE PEOPLE'S STUFF AROUND.

Our jump freighter who is not on at regular hours cannot help us when we need him all the time. Because of that, we use the carrier to move stuff around. Please keep the cargobay the same.

You're asking for advice, and I want to speak up for myself in saying don't remove my options.

Also, after reading some of the replies in this thread, I have never seen such an unprofessional dev in my life in the history of these forums. Even back in the day when there was good communication with others, there was no sarcasm to this extent. If you are going to answer questions the community is asking then please do so respectfully to the community which you are asking for advice.

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.08.15 11:59:00 - [228]
 

Quote:
I won't even have a realistic use for the carrier anymore, as I rarely use it in combat because the sole purpose of the ship is to MOVE PEOPLE'S STUFF AROUND.

Ehm...no...a carrier is a large version of the cruiser T2 logistics ships. It should also has the ability to move peoples SHIPS (not their stuff in general, but their ships) around.

Quote:
Our jump freighter who is not on at regular hours cannot help us when we need him all the time. Because of that, we use the carrier to move stuff around. Please keep the cargobay the same.

Get a few JF pilots, keep the ship in corp hangar.

Quote:
Also, after reading some of the replies in this thread, I have never seen such an unprofessional dev in my life in the history of these forums. Even back in the day when there was good communication with others, there was no sarcasm to this extent. If you are going to answer questions the community is asking then please do so respectfully to the community which you are asking for advice.

Cry more

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2009.08.16 06:57:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: steave435
Ehm...no...a carrier is a large version of the cruiser T2 logistics ships. It should also has the ability to move peoples SHIPS (not their stuff in general, but their ships) around.

Why not the stuff in general?

We are left with the fact that, if CCP continue to pursue the erroneous distinction between warships and non-warships, the Carrier actually requires the Cargo they've removed. One might suggest that a Rorqual be used but the Rorqual is not a "warship" and therefore has no business on the front lines. So what is available? Haulers? Non-warship... Orca? Non-warship...

The seperation of Warships and Non-warships would also see an end to some of the most important vessel types around:- The Salvacane, Salvabond, BattleBadger, MineRokh...etc.
Unusual fits? Isn't that sort of the point of modular ships?

Honour tanked Revelations don't seem to me to be game-breaking, why should the choice to use the ship in that manner be removed?

Trimutius III
Avalon Guards
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.08.16 08:21:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: Jacob Holland

We are left with the fact that, if CCP continue to pursue the erroneous distinction between warships and non-warships, the Carrier actually requires the Cargo they've removed. One might suggest that a Rorqual be used but the Rorqual is not a "warship" and therefore has no business on the front lines. So what is available? Haulers? Non-warship... Orca? Non-warship...


Hmm if u use Carrier as warship, then u don't fit cargohold and this changes will not reduce it capabilities at battle, because u can put many different things in corp hangar... If they allow to jettison from corp hangar and scoop to corp hangar then everything is ok...

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.16 09:44:00 - [231]
 

Originally by: Sertan Deras
My only complaint is still that the carrier has half the fuel bay of the dread. It just shows an obvious disconnect from CCP's game designers. They play with this stuff in a closed, sanitized environment and obviously don't have much of a clue in to how we use these things in the real game.


I doubt it is completely true, but seeing the cry about "Oh my God, the Dev are in alliance X, cheat, cheat!" I suppose they try to keep low profiles in the bigger alliances or even avoid them, so it is possible some Dev has only a partial view of how carriers are used.


Originally by: Sertan Deras

I hate to even ask, but I assume the Rorqual is gonna "get the treatment" and strip it's entire cargo bay?


Readin is better than assuming. As said several times in this thread the Orca get a ore bay without losing from the other bays and the Rorqual get a fuel and ore bay without losing from the other bays.

It can still change before August 20, but I doubt it.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.08.16 09:57:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Grifft

The KB-29 was a modified B-29 used by the USAF as their first mid-air refuelers. These refuelers enabled the first ever, non-stop circumnavigation of the globe.

Wow, can you possibly imagine that a highly effective combat aircraft could be used in a logistics capacity. “Necessity is the mother of invention”, there was a need and a solution. Boeing didn’t tell the Air Force “The B-29 is a combat aircraft not a logistics aircraft” and then go back and change the design of the plane to prevent aerial refueling.



That was a factory modification, equivalent, for example, to the difference between a Exquror (Gallente cargo cruiser) and a Exquror Navy Issue (Gallente faction cruiser meant for blaster use).

Not something that you do in 2 minutes on the field swapping some module.

So if you want to use RL example consider all the angles.

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.08.16 11:48:00 - [233]
 

Quote:
Why not the stuff in general?

Because that's what JFs do. The carriers role is to take part in combat and bring spare fitted ships that people that get popped can grab and rejoin the fight.

Quote:
We are left with the fact that, if CCP continue to pursue the erroneous distinction between warships and non-warships, the Carrier actually requires the Cargo they've removed.

Why?

Quote:
One might suggest that a Rorqual be used but the Rorqual is not a "warship" and therefore has no business on the front lines. So what is available? Haulers? Non-warship... Orca? Non-warship...

No, but it definitely do have business behind the front lines, providing them with what is needed there.

Quote:
The seperation of Warships and Non-warships would also see an end to some of the most important vessel types around:- The Salvacane, Salvabond, BattleBadger, MineRokh...etc.

Yes, those are all vital, and soo much would be lost if that was changed...However, if you can't see the difference between that and this, then you should just stop playing.

Quote:
Unusual fits? Isn't that sort of the point of modular ships?

Yes, but not everything should be possible to do. For example, a standard brutix fit use a DC II, a plate and 3 mag stabs in the lows with MWD, tackle and 1x whatever in mids and then a full rack of blasters in the highs. However, some people use the fact that modular ships can fitted in unusual ways to instead shield tank it, allowing for more mag stabs -> more dps, but at the cost of tackle.

Quote:
That was a factory modification, equivalent, for example, to the difference between a Exquror (Gallente cargo cruiser) and a Exquror Navy Issue (Gallente faction cruiser meant for blaster use).

This. If you want to make a suggestion for a ship designed to haul cargo rather then ships (or maybe a little bit of both), with similar jump stats to a carrier, but with no combat ability and with a lower cost and cargo then a JF, then that's one thing, and could be considered. That role should be a switch-to-similar-hull rather then switch fit thing though.

ian666
Minmatar
Virtual Democracy
C0VEN
Posted - 2009.08.16 20:19:00 - [234]
 

Any plans to add ammo bay without touching cargo holds to non capital ships like battleships in near future?

Laido
Posted - 2009.08.17 11:28:00 - [235]
 

hmmm what can i say - 20k of isotopes in fuel bay of carrier...pain in the a..

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.17 15:54:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Sertan Deras
My only complaint is still that the carrier has half the fuel bay of the dread. It just shows an obvious disconnect from CCP's game designers. They play with this stuff in a closed, sanitized environment and obviously don't have much of a clue in to how we use these things in the real game.


I doubt it is completely true, but seeing the cry about "Oh my God, the Dev are in alliance X, cheat, cheat!" I suppose they try to keep low profiles in the bigger alliances or even avoid them, so it is possible some Dev has only a partial view of how carriers are used.


I never said the dev's cheated (we won't go there), I simply said the game designers seem to have a serious disconnect in terms of how the game is played, vis-a-vis how they want it to be.

Look, giving carriers half the fuel bay of a dread is just a dumb, dumb, dumb idea. It's game designers trying to look smart and edgy, rather than realizing carriers need to carry as much fuel as a dread. There's just no logical purpose in it. As usual though, CCP has no desire to listen to their player base for once. The whole system is a terrible idea, but if they are going to shove it down our throats (they are), at least don't cluster **** it like they are about to.

Not that any of our feedback matters, it will go live with 3k carrier fuel bays because CCP rarely, if ever, changes things according to player feedback once they hit Sisi.

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.17 15:55:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: Laido
hmmm what can i say - 20k of isotopes in fuel bay of carrier...pain in the a..


That's 20k topes if you don't carry any stront or liquid ozone, which any high-SP carrier pilot is going to carry. That's why it's so funny when people try and make the argument that carriers need less fuel than dreads, when at the very least they need the same amount in total m3 taken, and in some cases need more.

Sannye
Posted - 2009.08.17 17:12:00 - [238]
 

I am just SO happy i never bought the carrier skill book on live server, only on test!

I'll never get me a carrier now on live, but i'll get an orca or a rorqual - until they get the shaft?

I simply REFUSE to get a jumpfreighter - getting a ship like that to move your own stuff around in EVE with, is simply stupid.

So i'll just get my cash in empire.... no need of hauling ore back and forth from 0.0 - cash from 0.0 isnt really that much better than running level 4's, so a big "thanks" to dev's - you made a 0.0 charecter go back to empire, just what we needed...

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.17 18:26:00 - [239]
 

The only thing saving the Rorquals cargo bay at this point is the fact that it's the only ship in the game that is setup to be used for front line offensive tower logistics. Given that it can fit a capital level shield tank and actually defend itself, while still packing in ~100k m3 (give or take depending on your fit) of tower parts and fuel.

So the Rorqual will probably get the treatment once one of two things happens:

a) 0.0 is re-worked and front line offensive tower logistics becomes obsolete
b) A specialized tower logistics capital is created, giving CCP another excuse to force us to train months in skills and spend billions of ISK

Brolly
Caldari
5ER3NITY INC
Posted - 2009.08.18 01:17:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: CCP Abathur


Originally by: Trimutius III
Just checked one thing with Orca.

Why not allowing store Gases in Ore Bay? They are also harvested and would be useful in W-space when u use ur Orca...


We're already looking at the possibility of putting 'Gas Storage Bays' into certian ship types. Smile


Any chance of a module akin to cargo hold optimization that would add a gas hold to a ship, that would be pretty useful instead of having it on specific ships.

On the subject of adding holds via modules, a salvage/scrap metal bay module would be nifty too.


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