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kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2009.07.27 14:52:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: kessah on 29/07/2009 02:26:16
The Tempest

Id like to invite Devs and the balance team to try to explain to the community their arguments for keeping the Tempest as it is currently?

What do they believe it should be used for? And if they can argue their reasons properly.

As far as i can see, the Raven has more Armour, it has 5 mid slots for a pathetic buffer tank its been this way since before the HP buffs so that wasn't the intended reason for it at the start. The DPS is laughable if you intent to armour tank it.

Its got no real benefit over other ships in its class, domi's does a better job for logistics and the Maelstrom / Typhoon for DPS and logistics. Its stats are completely wrong imho.

No one on the forums ever advise an up and coming battleship pilot to train for the Tempest or Minmatar, there almost as rare as the Scorpion these days.

Why is it that this ship from its description and its bonuses/slot layout clearly ment to bring the hurt, come out with the most awful dps figures for realistic armour tank setups and when Shield tanked barely able to hold its own.

It should be the most damaging battleship out there, it should strike some fear in pilots, but in actuality its really a poor platform to use instead of many other battleships of its own race and the others.

Perhaps it isnt just the Tempest, perhaps Large projectiles are to blame? its a sad day when a bonused Typhoon to projectiles can be out damaged by blasters without bonuses fitted to the same ship.

I want to play with this ship again like i used to before all the HP buffs and ecm changes, when it was able to run rings around Megathrons.



ArrowWhat do you think of the Tempest? Underpowered? Overpowered? Fine as is?

ArrowWhat suggestions do you have for it?

ArrowI think its time to shed some light on this ship, its been utter useless for for to long imho.



*Updated questions for CCP*

ArrowWhy does it have more than 1000 more shield hitpoints than Armour when its slot layout heavily implies us to go for more armour tanking?

ArrowWhy does Republic Fleet EMP have a total 52.5 total damage multiplier when Amarr Navy Multifrequecy and Caldari/Gallente Navy Antimatter total 55.5?

ArrowWhy is there so little difference in damage, range and falloff between 800mm / Dual 650mm and Dual 425mm autocannons?

ArrowWhy is it we cant have more replies from CCP that involve testing in Close quarter, small gang pvp? instead of always 100+ man blob fleet warfare, case in point there decision to change the Scorpion to make it now more useless to those that would like to use it for the reasons in bold?

Shigsy
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.07.27 14:59:00 - [2]
 

Tempest is fine, ac's aren't.

Psiri
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:01:00 - [3]
 

I'm fine with it, honestly, I'd much rather fly the Tempest than a Mega or a Hyperion. Two utility highslots, capless guns, nice ammount of mids, medium drones, strikes far out enough with AC's, one of the fastest BS's and has awesome looks to boot.

Yes it's damage output is a bit on the weak side and yes it's a fairly shoddy sniper, I could care less however. In comparison to Amarr only really the Domi feels decent.

iShift
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:09:00 - [4]
 

I imagined it as the Rupture of the Battleship class, I imagined wrong.

Duke Starbuckington
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:14:00 - [5]
 

You can fit it like a big scary nanocane! >:O

(Don't do it, it doesn't work)

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:22:00 - [6]
 

Whats not to like?

[Tempest, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5

Stupid' Jerk
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:22:00 - [7]
 

this is 800dps, and has great neuting power to break active tanks, in an RR gang or combined with a logistics ship like a guardian tempest is unstoppable.

Gyrostabilizer II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
500W Infectious Power System Malfunction
500W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Projectile Ambit Extension I
Projectile Ambit Extension I
Projectile Ambit Extension I


Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Wasp II x2

--------------------
oh and here's a dual rep setup that does 750 dps and can keep its guns overloaded for nearly 2 minutes with heat sinks, stop sucking and learn to tempest

Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Alumel-Wired I Sensor Augmentation

Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large YF-12a Smartbomb /OFFLINE
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large YF-12a Smartbomb /OFFLINE
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L

Projectile Ambit Extension I
Projectile Ambit Extension I
Projectile Ambit Extension I


Wasp II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:29:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: kessah on 27/07/2009 15:34:57
Originally by: Stupid' Jerk
this is 800dps, and has great neuting power to break active tanks, in an RR gang or combined with a logistics ship like a guardian tempest is unstoppable.

Gyrostabilizer II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
500W Infectious Power System Malfunction
500W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Projectile Ambit Extension I
Projectile Ambit Extension I
Projectile Ambit Extension I


Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Wasp II x2

--------------------
oh and here's a dual rep setup that does 750 dps and can keep its guns overloaded for nearly 2 minutes with heat sinks, stop sucking and learn to tempest

Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Alumel-Wired I Sensor Augmentation

Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large YF-12a Smartbomb /OFFLINE
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large YF-12a Smartbomb /OFFLINE
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L

Projectile Ambit Extension I
Projectile Ambit Extension I
Projectile Ambit Extension I


Wasp II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1



i dont suck Cool

Id ruin you fits, you've barely 70k effective hitpoints.

BTW two neuts wont cap out a battleship in any realistic time frame. AND your talkin about 'ifs' *IF you have a guardian in you gang* *IF you have other RR in gang*

I could play the IF game too, what IF you had a falcon in gang, what IF you have a titan in gang.


Btw that 2nd fit is an Active tank joke, your tanking 422 dps, christ my Thorax does more dps than that.

What kind of setups are these?

If your going to call me out at least do abit of background research before posting. Seriously those are bad fits for any ship.

My point for this thread was look at the Tempest itself not hypothetical scenarios with what you might have in gang.

Its the Stats of the ship, its overall dps and versatility compared to other battleships. Not if you have a falcon, or guardian etc.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:31:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Whats not to like?

[Tempest, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5



Thats a Raven, thats basically a raven with less dps and no point.

fivetide humidyear
Gallente
Fool Mental Junket
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:34:00 - [10]
 

tempest is a nice addition to RR ganags for different damage and useful midslots but otherwise it is poor compared to other battleships, and thats probably more to do with large AC needing a boost in a much longer(x2 at least)falloff.

And it definitely needs back the speed and agility advantage it had before.

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:36:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: kessah
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Whats not to like?

[Tempest, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5



Thats a Raven, thats basically a raven with less dps and no point.


A Raven with dual Heavy Neuts. The armor verison has even less dps, and less ehp, and is made of fail compared to other races armor BSs. Razz

But it is indeed similar to a Raven, except a minmatar one, for minmatar pilotes, with minmatar skills. Lack of a point is sad, I agree, but a BS should not really be relied on as a primary tackler anyways. Solo BS is dead, and you got gangs. So its a perfectly viable setup. Cool

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: kessah on 27/07/2009 15:48:35
Edited by: kessah on 27/07/2009 15:43:30
Originally by: Lindsay Logan


Stuff




The only point for that would be a low sp player. Because even the Typhoon would be a better choice in most cases.

Its viable, as viable as someone with no missile skills. Its not a bad setup, its just strictly for those that have cornered themselves into this ship. Raven would be better or a Maelstrom or a Typhoon.

What else is sad, is that the megathron with 2 damage mods puts out 200more dps and more effective hp than that setup Neutral

THEDON1
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:53:00 - [13]
 

full gank fitted 1400 2s with no tank is the way forward for the pest and it hurts! its my fave sniper/gank BS and has been for about 2 years YARRRR!!

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:56:00 - [14]
 

Well, in its heyday, the Tempest WAS a very fearsome battleship. The problem was rather since Minmatar pilots rely on so many auxiliary skills that every time CCP would nerf something/anything, Minmatar pilots were inevitably negatively affected. This was quite true of the Tempest. It suffered because of the HP boost, it suffered when a change was made to Neuts/Vamps, and it suffered when Tier 3 Battleships were introduced.

I think the original idea for the Tempest was that it was to be an Active Shield tanker, while having a higher base speed, and lower base sig to help with having the weakest direct tank. That being said, if they adjust Shield boosters to do either a.) More HP, slower recharge, or b.) Faster recharge, lower cap requirements.

Arties and ACs could really use some work too. I think adjusting their reload rates to be ~ 5secs instead of 10secs would be a good step in the right direction... especially for Arties.

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:56:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: kessah
Edited by: kessah on 27/07/2009 15:43:30
Originally by: Lindsay Logan


Stuff




The only point for that would be a low sp player. Because even the Typhoon would be a better choice in most cases.

Its viable, as viable as someone with no missile skills. Its not a bad setup, its just strictly for those that have cornered themselves into this ship. Raven would be better or a Maelstrom or a Typhoon.


Maby, but the Tempest do have more base shileds then armor Wink.

As a Caldari player I have adapted and come to terms witht the fact that all BSs can not be solo pwn mobiles. Just as I need a gang when in my Raven to do good dps (and a target painter to deal damage to smaller ships), so other ships do as well. The seup I posted can be tweaked wiht better ECCM strenght as well in the low slots, and I like it, granted not as much ehp as my Raven, but not far from it, still over 100k tho. And its arguably fast for a BS, not that it counts for a whole lot.

Imo, I uses a BS when I need to deliver loads of dps, and be able to take a punch. I wish I could use them for more, but the current meta game do not allow for that.

But I do got a beef with the Raven as well, I have tried to find a viable fit for it with remote shiled reps, and siege launchers. It just don't work. Tempest however can pull it off (granted, needs two CPU II, but it has the slots).

As for why it has more low slots, but better base shileds, only CCP can answer tho. Razz

If however ACs get even more damage, an armor tanked setup can become more viable, but then again this setup will deal even more nice dps Smile

THEDON1
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:58:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
Well, in its heyday, the Tempest WAS a very fearsome battleship. The problem was rather since Minmatar pilots rely on so many auxiliary skills that every time CCP would nerf something/anything, Minmatar pilots were inevitably negatively affected. This was quite true of the Tempest. It suffered because of the HP boost, it suffered when a change was made to Neuts/Vamps, and it suffered when Tier 3 Battleships were introduced.

I think the original idea for the Tempest was that it was to be an Active Shield tanker, while having a higher base speed, and lower base sig to help with having the weakest direct tank. That being said, if they adjust Shield boosters to do either a.) More HP, slower recharge, or b.) Faster recharge, lower cap requirements.

Arties and ACs could really use some work too. I think adjusting their reload rates to be ~ 5secs instead of 10secs would be a good step in the right direction... especially for Arties.


agreed ugh boost reload times plz ccp =)

Beverly Sparks
Posted - 2009.07.27 15:59:00 - [17]
 

To the OP.

All I feel it needs is a decent PG buff. It needs the low slot usually consumed by a RCU II to fit more tank and put it more in line with the other BS's EHP wise.

Remember the Tempest has only 6 guns, leaving 2 utility slots. I believe the double damage bonus is there to put it inline with the other BS's ( although yea, since it is really only giving up 1 gun over most other BS's it should be in the top 25% probably), however it fails at doing this. But I don't blame the ship, the rest of the fault lies in the weapons. What would I do.

Tempest (More grid) At least allow it to fit 6 1400's and a standard armor tank with no RCU.

6 x 1400mm II
100 MN MWD, 2xTC II, 2xSB II
DCU II, 1600mm RT, 1xEANM's, 2 Gyro's and in the free spot from not needing the RCU II another EANM or 1600mm RT

AC's

Need more range, or more damage or both. (If AC's are touched then Blasters would also have to be buffed, since I think Blasters and AC's are fairly well balanced at present.)

Arties

Larger Alpha, Bigger clip size for sure, better tracking or more range, or both.

How is it that the shortest long range gun also has the worst tracking.

Just to throw some math in there.

Range x Tracking speed of unbonused weapons.

Lasers
Tach 52800 x .01392 = 734
Mega 48000 x .01531 = 734

Rails
425mm 57600 x .00962 = 554
325mm 43200 x .01167 = 504

Arties
1400mm 48000 x .009 = 432
1200mm 38640 x .01125 = 434

So Arties are the lowest damage, shortest range and worst tracking turrets. Versus the advantages of not using cap and have selectable damage type. Rolling Eyes

Give minnie ships Amarr size capacitors, then people can talk about capless weapons.

I would be totally fine if they locked our weapon damage type. Make us either Exp/EM , Exp/Therm, Exp/Kin, I don't really care assuming they brought us in line with the other turrets.

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:04:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Whats not to like?

[Tempest, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5



Pretty much similar to my current Tempest fit (Though I drop one of the gyros and the tracking enhancer for two PDUs and at least one of the Neuts for a Vamp). Its pretty solid (100k+ EHP) for medium range engagements. The only downside is that so few peeps ever run Shield RR right now.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:08:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: kessah
Perhaps it isnt just the Tempest, perhaps Large projectiles are to blame? its a sad day when a bonused Typhoon to projectiles can be out damaged by blasters without bonuses fitted to the same ship.


The problem is, even if CCP buffs large projectiles in some way (long overdue, in my opinion), the Tempest will still "suck" by comparison. Any buff to large projectiles makes the Maelstrom and Typhoon better by the same proportion that it would the Tempest.

I saw this suggestion in another thread, but I think a 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Damage and 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Optimal would be the best. The DPS would actually go down slightly compared to the current bonuses, but you'd finally have a Minmatar ship capable of sniping like the other races, with the ability to RR if you wanted.

Beverly Sparks
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:10:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Psiri
I'm fine with it, honestly, I'd much rather fly the Tempest than a Mega or a Hyperion. Two utility highslots, capless guns, nice ammount of mids, medium drones, strikes far out enough with AC's, one of the fastest BS's and has awesome looks to boot.

Yes it's damage output is a bit on the weak side and yes it's a fairly shoddy sniper, I could care less however. In comparison to Amarr only really the Domi feels decent.


I would take a mega any day, for almost any role.

Medium drones... lol, you lost all credibility right there.

My Apoc can shoot SR weapons out to 90+km. Oh yea, I can field 5 hammerheads.....

Beverly Sparks
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:22:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Beverly Sparks on 27/07/2009 16:41:13
Originally by: Seriously Bored


The problem is, even if CCP buffs large projectiles in some way (long overdue, in my opinion), the Tempest will still "suck" by comparison. Any buff to large projectiles makes the Maelstrom and Typhoon better by the same proportion that it would the Tempest.


I think the point of the tempest is to do the damage of 8 turrets in 6, giving it the 2 utility slots. Right or wrong, I think that is the basic idea.

The problem is that through nerfs and circumstance, there really isn't anything you can put into those high slots that can effectively make up for losing the bonus, in exchange for 2 high slots. You are better off with 8 weapons and 2 ship bonuses. RR and others being a bit of an exception. That is not totally true, but this is a complex issue, and it sort of relies on the fact that minmatar already need 8 (probably 9) turrets to compete with 7 of the other races.

Originally by: Seriously Bored
I saw this suggestion in another thread, but I think a 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Damage and 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Optimal would be the best. The DPS would actually go down slightly compared to the current bonuses, but you'd finally have a Minmatar ship capable of sniping like the other races, with the ability to RR if you wanted.


I like that idea too, it gives it a bigger alpha, which would be nice. Doubt the Devs would go for that though.

I think the offensive fix to the Minmatar has to be with the weapons and not the ships.

People always talk about minnie ships and their fantastic utility highs, and the devs seem to generally like near equal total Slot counts on ship classes, iF you took all of the utility slots from the minnie ships and turned them into mids and lows ( which is effectively what the other races have), Minnie would be a far more fearsome race.

Muninn is a great example of this. What the hell do you put in the last 2 launcher slots, that has any real impact on the performance of the ship. Take those 2 slots and give it a 4th mid and a 6th low, and then I think it would be competitive. Don't get me wrong, the Muninn works... an optimal bonused HAC is already win. It just falls down when you look at EHP, Lock range/Scan Res etc etc as a total package.

My 2 isk

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:22:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: kessah
Perhaps it isnt just the Tempest, perhaps Large projectiles are to blame? its a sad day when a bonused Typhoon to projectiles can be out damaged by blasters without bonuses fitted to the same ship.


The problem is, even if CCP buffs large projectiles in some way (long overdue, in my opinion), the Tempest will still "suck" by comparison. Any buff to large projectiles makes the Maelstrom and Typhoon better by the same proportion that it would the Tempest.

I saw this suggestion in another thread, but I think a 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Damage and 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Optimal would be the best. The DPS would actually go down slightly compared to the current bonuses, but you'd finally have a Minmatar ship capable of sniping like the other races, with the ability to RR if you wanted.


not necessrily. A boost to arties is needed for both maels and tempest. A bosot to AC as well (check how laser maesltrom > AC maesltrom).

Then give tempest a larger drone bay (not bandwidth) so it can load different drone types (to support its swiss army knife role) and give it a tiny bit better fit. Done .

Other way is give it a clear role.... like change the rof bonus to a 7.% damage bonus.... and give it 15 km extra lock range to become a half almost decent sniper.

RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:25:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: kessah




ArrowWhat do you think of the Tempest? Underpowered? Overpowered? Fine as is?

ArrowWhat suggestions do you have for it?

ArrowI think its time to shed some light on this ship, its been utter useless for for to long imho.


Point 1-Tempest is a decent sniper and looks cool. That's about it. For everything else the Typhoon (in endgame state with T2 torps/Ogre II's etc) is far superior in every application aside from sniping.

Point 2-I'm not sure what to suggest to improve it. It really should be the top-of-the-line Minmatar BS just based on it's ultra-cool looks. It might work better with a proper split system like the 'phoon as the two utility hi-slots are pretty meh. Or give it a bigger drone bay so it can actually armor tank decently AND do BS-class damage.

Not that T2 Large projectiles (especially AC's) are anything special either.

And for those slamming kessah...watch his solo Tempest vids sometime and STFU.


Radoslav Pirs
Rust Bucket Nomads
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:34:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Duke Starbuckington
You can fit it like a big scary nanocane! >:O

(Don't do it, it doesn't work)


That's kind of how I would like the tempest to be. It would be different from the other bs - not super damage or tank, but high mobility, nice damage and some buffer.

Right now the tempest is just a sucky ship IMO, and in dire need of some love.

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:34:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: kessah




ArrowWhat do you think of the Tempest? Underpowered? Overpowered? Fine as is?

ArrowWhat suggestions do you have for it?

ArrowI think its time to shed some light on this ship, its been utter useless for for to long imho.


Point 1-Tempest is a decent sniper and looks cool. That's about it. For everything else the Typhoon (in endgame state with T2 torps/Ogre II's etc) is far superior in every application aside from sniping.

Point 2-I'm not sure what to suggest to improve it. It really should be the top-of-the-line Minmatar BS just based on it's ultra-cool looks. It might work better with a proper split system like the 'phoon as the two utility hi-slots are pretty meh. Or give it a bigger drone bay so it can actually armor tank decently AND do BS-class damage.

Not that T2 Large projectiles (especially AC's) are anything special either.

And for those slamming kessah...watch his solo Tempest vids sometime and STFU.




link?

Always had a hard time finding good tempest videos.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:48:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Seishi Maru
not necessrily. A boost to arties is needed for both maels and tempest. A bosot to AC as well (check how laser maesltrom > AC maesltrom).

Then give tempest a larger drone bay (not bandwidth) so it can load different drone types (to support its swiss army knife role) and give it a tiny bit better fit. Done .

Other way is give it a clear role.... like change the rof bonus to a 7.% damage bonus.... and give it 15 km extra lock range to become a half almost decent sniper.


A clear role is exactly what I'm suggesting Cool. We seem to be on the same page, though my 10% Damage 10% Optimal suggestion is a bit more extreme than yours (sadly, even with those extreme of changes, Amarr and Caldari snipers would be better, but at least it'd be closer).

As for the Swiss Army knife route, my experience in this game is that trying to do too many things at once usually ends up with you in your pod. A good pilot in a poorly defined ship can do some amazing things, but that still makes it a poorly defined ship.

Beverly Sparks
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:48:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Radoslav Pirs
Originally by: Duke Starbuckington
You can fit it like a big scary nanocane! >:O

(Don't do it, it doesn't work)


That's kind of how I would like the tempest to be. It would be different from the other bs - not super damage or tank, but high mobility, nice damage and some buffer.

Right now the tempest is just a sucky ship IMO, and in dire need of some love.


I have one built right now, I use it when we have a good mixed blob. It has 1200's and duel nano's on it. It works ok, the alpha is nice when I hit decently.

Although really, the Pulse Nanopoc and the Nanothron, still outclass it.

Beverly Sparks
Posted - 2009.07.27 16:57:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored

A clear role is exactly what I'm suggesting Cool. We seem to be on the same page, though my 10% Damage 10% Optimal suggestion is a bit more extreme than yours (sadly, even with those extreme of changes, Amarr and Caldari snipers would be better, but at least it'd be closer).

As for the Swiss Army knife route, my experience in this game is that trying to do too many things at once usually ends up with you in your pod. A good pilot in a poorly defined ship can do some amazing things, but that still makes it a poorly defined ship.


Totally agree. This is not just EvE, this is every MMORPG out there. Any class/ship/gun/character that is built to be versatile will be weaker in comparison to one that is specialized, and will be totally owned in that setting.

In Eve it is fairly easy to predict what situations you will be in, so the versatility is not really needed when you undock. If you want to talk versatility we are again talking about the Pulse Apoc, which can nearly fight in fleet battles with an RR setup. that is versatility. Having the choice of missile, Nos/Neut, or Remote Armor repair is not, IMO.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.07.27 17:36:00 - [29]
 

Solution:

Fix projectiles
Give it the agility/speed of the cane

Done.

Kismo
Posted - 2009.07.27 17:42:00 - [30]
 

I want to like the Tempest. I want to like it SOO BAD. I mean what other ship do you look at and have no choice but scream "YARR, AND HOIST THE JOLLY ROGER MATEY!" when you see one in space?!

But. But, I don't like the Tempest. The only thing you can say for it is that it does passably at RR if you don't have the skills for a phoon. It really needs a bit more agility/speed, and a bit more damage - either from boosting ACs/Artillery or from the ship itself.


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