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CCP Fallout

Posted - 2009.07.15 20:46:00 - [1]
 

With the launch of Apocrypha our New Player Experience was completely revamped. Better, stronger tutorials and career paths give new players a taste of what they can do in EVE. Our Winter Expansion will see even more improvements to this ever-important feature, and CCP Soundwave is just the man to tell us all about it in his new dev blog.

P.S. Soundwave would also like you to share your feedback on the NPE in this thread.

Fractal Eye
Gallente
Inter-Galactic Research Of Knowledge
Posted - 2009.07.15 20:57:00 - [2]
 

"ok so I lied, you will spend a little time on fire" Very Happy

Best line in the blog imo. Good, albeit short, blog concerning new player content. I really like the addition of the exploration path. I started scanning right before Trinity came out, and found a HG Slave implant in a 0.6 site on my third day. Sold it for about 230mil isk, and have been scanning ever since.

Also, thanks for the numerous dev blogs lately. It's nice to log on almost everyday and see a new one Very Happy

Trian Kalart
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2009.07.16 00:26:00 - [3]
 

Given this:
Quote:
One of the added goals for this expansion is to make sure that a player that completes the tutorial is aware that:
1. Corporations exist.
2. They are awesome.
3. Not joining one as soon as possible is silly.


The major downside as a newbie to joining a player corp is that you become a potential target for war declarations. Obviously if your corp is focused on PVP this is a good thing, but if your chosen path is industry, missioning or mining obviously this is less desirable. Does the above mean that you will be looking at changing the current mechanics of empire war? This issue was brought up in an early CSM meeting but no mention of change has been forthcoming.

Project 001
Posted - 2009.07.16 02:50:00 - [4]
 

He does have a point. Encouraging new players to form together is just going to lead to wardecs by "leet pvpers" on these new pilots/members, and will lead to a lot of people quitting.

Elaron
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.07.16 02:55:00 - [5]
 

I read it as encouraging new players to join corps, not form them.

Anubis Sobek
Posted - 2009.07.16 07:04:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Anubis Sobek on 16/07/2009 07:04:17
Just means more care bears for me to train lol.LaughingLaughing

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2009.07.16 09:07:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout
With the launch of Apocrypha our New Player Experience was completely revamped. Better, stronger tutorials and career paths give new players a taste of what they can do in EVE. Our Winter Expansion will see even more improvements to this ever-important feature, and CCP Soundwave is just the man to tell us all about it in his new dev blog.

P.S. Soundwave would also like you to share your feedback on the NPE in this thread.


Good blog.

Personally what I think misses when it comes to joining corporations is an incentive for solid corporations to recruit new or older players - even if they are not shaped for PvP.

We all want to see more players in deep space. Unfornately most people stays in empire. The reason is quite often that the treshhold for joining a deep space corp is high. The requirements are high, and if you cant live up to them you often get kicked. Casual players are therefore quite often not wanted. Particularily not casual players who prefer mining and missionioning.

What I would like to see is this:

CCP bringing in things that ENCOURAGE deep space corps and alliances to recruit casual players often called "deadweight" into their organization. Which again encourages empire players to set their foot into deep space. I am not speaking about forcing anyone. But a way for these organizations to see a gain in joining casual players into their midst who migth do other things than PvP.



Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2009.07.16 13:26:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Elaron
I read it as encouraging new players to join corps, not form them.

This.

Although, I think the the corp recruitment ad system will likely need an update/streamlining to make this practical.

Claudius Atropos
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2009.07.16 15:30:00 - [9]
 

Good to see CCP still refining the tutorials and finally paying serious attention to the new player's first few days in-game.

As far as the "encouraging people to join player corps" stuff, that's all well and good on paper, but how exactly are they planning to make it a more seamless process for a new player to find an outfit that he/she actually wants to join? The Recruitment channel is spammer's heaven, the recruiting forums less than helpful.

Nierna
Posted - 2009.07.16 17:02:00 - [10]
 

fibonacci?

1-1-2-3-5-8-13-21-34-55-89-144

just courius what is has to do with the New Player Exepriance :)

also. good stuff. corps are good!

gfldex
Posted - 2009.07.16 17:20:00 - [11]
 

Changing corp tax for NPC corps to 11% will do better then even the best tutorial an infinite number of monkeys with typewrites could possibly write.

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2009.07.17 12:09:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: gfldex
Changing corp tax for NPC corps to 11% will do better then even the best tutorial an infinite number of monkeys with typewrites could possibly write.


At least plus make it so they pay more and more the longer they are in NPC corps.


Nekopyat
Posted - 2009.07.17 21:04:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

CCP bringing in things that ENCOURAGE deep space corps and alliances to recruit casual players often called "deadweight" into their organization. Which again encourages empire players to set their foot into deep space. I am not speaking about forcing anyone. But a way for these organizations to see a gain in joining casual players into their midst who migth do other things than PvP.


I have always felt that the solution to this is three fold:

(1) Fixed emplacements that enforce entry policy: Automated POS setups and gate guns that can provide a level of security where player time can be traded for maintenance cost.

(2) Automatic distress: Player implemented version of CONCORD. If someone aggresses that would normally be taken out by concord, the local nation is informed and a POS structure opens up a gate of some type, sending any on-duty ships to the location.

(3) Fine grained tax system for non-members: A good configurable tax system that gives the local player government an incentive to let people in for whatever they are doing.

The idea would be to provide a similar safety mechanism to empire within null sec, but configured by the local player government while decreasing the amount of tedium and manpower needed to implement policy.

Heartstone
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.07.17 22:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Nierna
fibonacci?

1-1-2-3-5-8-13-21-34-55-89-144

just courius what is has to do with the New Player Exepriance :)



The number of months to wait for each patch to fix the bugs it introduces ofc! Laughing


Jacinta Worth
Reikoku
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.07.20 07:01:00 - [15]
 

Having looked up the Fibonacci sequence on wiki, it appears he used the growth of a rabbit population to show how the sequence worked. I assume the link is to the Eve population growing at a proportional rate to a hypothetical rabbit one ... Shocked

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.07.20 19:11:00 - [16]
 

As others have mentioned, telling new players to get themselves into a player corp is all very well, but the current system does nothing to encourage this when they can sit in the NPC corps with 0% tax rate and 100% immunity from wardecs.

x ec
Posted - 2009.07.21 03:31:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: x ec on 21/07/2009 03:32:05
Originally by: gfldex
Changing corp tax for NPC corps to 11% will do better then even the best tutorial an infinite number of monkeys with typewrites could possibly write.


this...

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
As others have mentioned, telling new players to get themselves into a player corp is all very well, but the current system does nothing to encourage this when they can sit in the NPC corps with 0% tax rate and 100% immunity from wardecs.


and this...

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.07.21 09:51:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 21/07/2009 09:51:34
Why would they need to be taxed? The problem isnt that npc corporations are too good, it is that player corporations arent good enough.

And chasing them into player corporations just promotes griefing them.

Landrassa
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
Posted - 2009.07.24 11:59:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: x ec
Edited by: x ec on 21/07/2009 03:32:05
Originally by: gfldex
Changing corp tax for NPC corps to 11% will do better then even the best tutorial an infinite number of monkeys with typewrites could possibly write.


this...

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
As others have mentioned, telling new players to get themselves into a player corp is all very well, but the current system does nothing to encourage this when they can sit in the NPC corps with 0% tax rate and 100% immunity from wardecs.


and this...


Then perhaps new players need to be a bit more selective about which corporations to join. Yes, a band of 20 players all under 3 months old is easy, if hardly rewarding prey for the average griefer corp.

On the flipside...just how bad is it to be wardecced in the first place? Park the retrievers, fit out those rifters and merlins and go out there to make some stuff happen. Very, very few "griefer" corps will not grudgingly give respect to a bunch of noobs that is ready and willing to take it on the chin and take down a few Recons with them while they're at it. Hey, they might even consider taking in some of those noobs. Dealing with wardecs is easy, as long as you accept that war is the way of the universe. Losing ships is fine, and you'll learn from it. Better to get it over with when you're still flying t1 frigates than to find yourself out of your horribly expensive mission boat one day without a clue as to how or why you just lost it.

And ofc...there's always Eve University. Great place for new players to learn all kinds of different ropes, and guarantueed fun and games all the time.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.07.27 18:43:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 27/07/2009 18:47:33
Originally by: Landrassa
Then perhaps new players need to be a bit more selective about which corporations to join. Yes, a band of 20 players all under 3 months old is easy, if hardly rewarding prey for the average griefer corp.

On the flipside...just how bad is it to be wardecced in the first place? Park the retrievers, fit out those rifters and merlins and go out there to make some stuff happen. Very, very few "griefer" corps will not grudgingly give respect to a bunch of noobs that is ready and willing to take it on the chin and take down a few Recons with them while they're at it. Hey, they might even consider taking in some of those noobs. Dealing with wardecs is easy, as long as you accept that war is the way of the universe. Losing ships is fine, and you'll learn from it. Better to get it over with when you're still flying t1 frigates than to find yourself out of your horribly expensive mission boat one day without a clue as to how or why you just lost it.

And ofc...there's always Eve University. Great place for new players to learn all kinds of different ropes, and guarantueed fun and games all the time.

What you're missing is that you're talking from experience. New players don't know any of this, and they won't know it just because you said it on some forum that nobody reads Wink. I don't think you could write an unbiased tutorial that really hammers home the concepts you present, because that's a philosophy, and gamers have always brought their own philosophies, not just copied one given to them. That is the quintessential essence of why EVE has succeeded for so long, that no matter how you approach the game, if you succeed in it, few will care how you did it. Chribba didn't succeed at the game by following what you propose; there are many ways to play EVE.

I personally found the suggestion that 'failing to join a corp as soon as possible is silly' quite offensive to the supposed intelligence of EVE's community. It should read 'join a decent capable corp when you find one' not 'join some corp whose CEO will bleed you dry just because he was the first person to say hi'.

In an EVE where everyone is out to get you, scam you, or kill you given the chance, where trust is grudgingly earned and often betrayed, to suggest a naive approach of 'hey lets join a corp' seems contrary to the basic principles of EVE.

Landrassa
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
Posted - 2009.08.02 09:57:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 27/07/2009 18:47:33
Originally by: Landrassa


What you're missing is that you're talking from experience. New players don't know any of this, and they won't know it just because you said it on some forum that nobody reads Wink. I don't think you could write an unbiased tutorial that really hammers home the concepts you present, because that's a philosophy, and gamers have always brought their own philosophies, not just copied one given to them. That is the quintessential essence of why EVE has succeeded for so long, that no matter how you approach the game, if you succeed in it, few will care how you did it. Chribba didn't succeed at the game by following what you propose; there are many ways to play EVE.

I personally found the suggestion that 'failing to join a corp as soon as possible is silly' quite offensive to the supposed intelligence of EVE's community. It should read 'join a decent capable corp when you find one' not 'join some corp whose CEO will bleed you dry just because he was the first person to say hi'.

In an EVE where everyone is out to get you, scam you, or kill you given the chance, where trust is grudgingly earned and often betrayed, to suggest a naive approach of 'hey lets join a corp' seems contrary to the basic principles of EVE.


I have to disagree with you there, or at least partially. Not joining a corp means you're missing out on the best part of EVE, the interaction with other actual human players. I fully realize that there are players out there who like nothing better than to just go out and run a few missions or do some mining, often citing lack of time, focus on family and jobs etc. as the reason, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, this is an MMORPG, and there are a lot of other players out there. And some of them have specialized in accomplishing their goals at the expense of others, be it through piracy, extortion, ninja salvaging, scamming or whatever else you can think of.

And yes, most players find out about these things the hard way, which is why I think taking a more proactive approach during the tutorial to move players in the direction of, shall we say, confrontational gameplay is a good thing.

As for what I wrote earlier being a philosophy...closing one's eyes and pretending the bad people aren't there won't make us go away .Cool In EVE you often find yourself in situations not of your choosing and one way or the other, it is up to you, the player, to somehow deal with these shady characters. We must be dealt with! Very Happy

T'Nuk Layor
Posted - 2009.09.23 00:11:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Landrassa

On the flipside...just how bad is it to be wardecced in the first place? Park the retrievers, fit out those rifters and merlins and go out there to make some stuff happen. Very, very few "griefer" corps will not grudgingly give respect to a bunch of noobs that is ready and willing to take it on the chin and take down a few Recons with them while they're at it. Hey, they might even consider taking in some of those noobs. Dealing with wardecs is easy, as long as you accept that war is the way of the universe. Losing ships is fine, and you'll learn from it.


Spoken like someone who hasn't been a noob in a long, long time. Pretty much all griefer corps I have run into look for the least experienced adversary. If they wanted a challenge they would be in 0.0. Players with three year old accounts will wait hours hoping my pathetic two month old self will undock.

I can jump in my frigate and fight, get vaporized by someone with way more ship, way more skills and way more experience than I do, and have no hope of winning. Where do I get the money for another ship? And clones?

People like you are part of the problem. You lack the confidence to fight experienced players and CCP lacks the backbone to deny you new players to feed on. Smells like the slow death of another MMORPG to me.

Alarik Semler
Posted - 2009.09.23 08:15:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: T'Nuk Layor
Originally by: Landrassa

On the flipside...just how bad is it to be wardecced in the first place? Park the retrievers, fit out those rifters and merlins and go out there to make some stuff happen. Very, very few "griefer" corps will not grudgingly give respect to a bunch of noobs that is ready and willing to take it on the chin and take down a few Recons with them while they're at it. Hey, they might even consider taking in some of those noobs. Dealing with wardecs is easy, as long as you accept that war is the way of the universe. Losing ships is fine, and you'll learn from it.


Spoken like someone who hasn't been a noob in a long, long time. Pretty much all griefer corps I have run into look for the least experienced adversary. If they wanted a challenge they would be in 0.0. Players with three year old accounts will wait hours hoping my pathetic two month old self will undock.

I can jump in my frigate and fight, get vaporized by someone with way more ship, way more skills and way more experience than I do, and have no hope of winning. Where do I get the money for another ship? And clones?

People like you are part of the problem. You lack the confidence to fight experienced players and CCP lacks the backbone to deny you new players to feed on. Smells like the slow death of another MMORPG to me.


This. The average "wardec" corp has no intention of looking for "goodfights", they are there simply to cause other players grief and drink the noobtears. The first time they do run into a corp that has a couple of decent PvP alts in it you will find them sitting in station as much as any 3 month old miner, smacking in local about how they choose to do this anyway.


 

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