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blankseplocked Petition - Make Federation like the one from Starship Troopers movie
 
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2009.07.15 19:02:00 - [1]
 

"Out of the ashes of Caldari Prime comes first...sorrow...then anger"

"The only good Caldari is a dead Caldari"

"In Villore, the Federal Senate convenes..."

"We must meet the threat with our valour...our blood, and indeed are very lives. To ensure that Gallente civilization, not Caldari, dominates this galaxy now and ALWAYS!"

"President Foiritan announces plans for an offensive against the State, source of the Leviathan that occupied Caldari Prime"

Enough said.

Plz CCP :(

Gief us a spine!

Xiao LoPan
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:29:00 - [2]
 

eve doesn't need 2 fascist states, want mindless jingoism roll calderi, want decadent hedonism roll gallante, and really who doesn't want decadent hedonism.

Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.15 23:13:00 - [3]
 

i think the caldari are rather close to the starship troopers federation. an economy built for war.


Victor Michaelle
Gallente
Posted - 2009.07.16 17:10:00 - [4]
 

There are extremist elements like that in the Gallente population, they just arn't in power (thankfully). There's nothing to say you can't roleplay one like that, though, and there may still be a few of them in high positions within the military, or in the senate.

People like that were ruling the Federation back in the days of the old Caldari war (the breakout), when we were bombing Caldari Prime and stuff. They gained popularity in some hatewave triggered by some Caldari military action I think

Dengen Krastinov
Amarr
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.07.16 22:52:00 - [5]
 

already taken

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2009.07.17 04:37:00 - [6]
 

In general most of the replies in this thread seem to demonstrated a core misunderstanding of the State's organization, structure, and Caldari culture as well as the deeper underlying complexity that exist within the Federation.

I will first address the poor responses then your request Seriphyn.

Races will be in ( ) because they simply represent a majority of any of the empires and lead to the misrepresentation of the national goals as aligning directly with the basic cultural archetypes presented. Seriphyn you have encountered this in our characters interactions.

Originally by: Xiao LoPan
eve doesn't need 2 fascist states, want mindless jingoism roll calderi, want decadent hedonism roll gallante, and really who doesn't want decadent hedonism.


Originally by: Dengen Krastinov
already taken


Eve has a single totalitarian national government and that is the (Amarr) Empire an Imperial Theocracy.

The (Caldari) State is a confederation of largely independent corporate entities, where the strength of centralized power varies depending on the current state of foreign affairs. While individual corporations may appear "facist," this is an artifact of them being corporations. Corporations are focused on making a profit and thus efficiency and unity of effort is key. Each of the corporations values their independence and freedom to act without the oversight of an outside organization (for example the Federation's government). However, within a corporation in order to achieve the goal of profit and pursue a unified goal, personal freedoms and independence is significantly discouraged. This is one of the major sources of friction between the State and Federation.

The (Gallente) Federation is a federation of cultures and civilizations of different backgrounds. The majority's ideals & culture have been largely adopted by the whole, but there remains cultural uniqueness. This uniqueness is in part inspired by the very ideas of the majority: individual freedom and independence. There are other ideas that go along with these and are a result of democracy, for example the government/people putting laws into place that put requirements on corporations. Decadent hedonism can be a by product of extreme pursuit of individual freedom and independence, however the vast majority of Federal citizens live what amount to very average modern western lives (possibly having a very popular virtual fantasy world that people spend hours playing each week).

Originally by: Victor Fyretracker
i think the caldari are rather close to the starship troopers federation. an economy built for war.

No; on both counts. The Starship Troopers Federation's economy was no more geared towards war than the economies of the United States and Soviet Union in World War II. When an entity enters a true war of survival, of such titanic proportions that the future fate of humanity (or a significant chuck) is on the line, its economy turns towards supporting that war. War expends resources that need to be replaced and thus creates movement in the markets in quantities that rapidly expand economies or you lose the war.

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2009.07.17 04:38:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
Modified quotes from B-rated, poor ass adaptation of classic Science Fiction literature.

Enough said.

Plz CCP :(

Gief us a spine!

So I think part of the problem stems from a single word that once appeared in the Gallente racial description.

I think the Federation is more than capable of having a spin and it has shown it does in a few ways. The question is do you pursue a nationalistic approach (Blaque) or a more "global" approach (Fortrain)?

Playing a Federation loyalist (well) gives you the opportunity to explore the internal conflicts within western society.
Plenty of examples that may as well be ripped from the headlines:
- Influx of (Matari) immigrants.
- Dealing with foreign (Caldari) corporations who are not constrained by the same guidelines as your native corporations
- How to handle large (Amarr) tyrannical states with smaller client states, but are crucial to continued regional/world stability?
- How to handle developing nations (Minmatar) who just threw off their dependence on one of those tyrannical states and keep those foreign corporations from setting up operations there?
- How do you maintain national defense when there is little reason for those most invested to join the military, relying on those very immigrants the might despise to defend them?
- How does one deal with new internal secret police?

These are just a few, but there are spins on it that don't exist in the real world at the moment like:
- There a more jobs than there are people to fill them and thus labor is needed
- One of your neighbors successfully rebelled against your system and is now a powerhouse (with a grudge against you).

I think there is plenty to do with the current Federation; it just has to be appropriately played up.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.17 09:27:00 - [8]
 

I think the Caldari and Gallente have a lot of things in common.

Both basically nationalistic. The Caldari might view themselves as the most efficient, while the Gallente think themselves as the most civilised.

A certain Hedonism is also present in both societies. Gambling is widespread within the State and the Luxuries some higher ranking Caldari enjoy can be easily compared to those of rich Gallente People (with perhaps the exception of some real fanatics like Tibus Heth).

The Gallente take the Hedonism even farther and also have a widespread drug problem on many of their worlds.Public service is in the Federation on an all time low (at least before the war). So the Military is forced to use Immigrants and even more Drone controlled Ships. Also most of the Fleet was mothballed before the War and likely in a poor condition.

I think Caldari and Gallente have lots of elements of western Civilisation, with their conflict between Collectivism and Individualism.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.07.17 10:11:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 17/07/2009 10:15:12

big problem here: everybody is trying to boil national characters down to as few words as possible. the attitude seems to be "Caldari = nationalistic, efficient, corporate", "gallente = hedonist, liberal, French"

We're talking a body of people substantially larger than the cumulative total population of the world here, and that's just the State. Trying to assign singular conceptual characteristics to such a gargantuan mass of humanity is essentially the same as that old Star Trek trope of a species wearing a hat - you had your warrior races, your logical types, and humanity at the middle of it all posing as some kind of hyper-flexible morally superior types with a mission to demonstrate that passion and daring can be constructive.

No. There are three political blocs in the State, comprising eight megacorporations. Each mega owns or at least influences the opinions of untold thousands of smaller corporations, some planet-based, others space-based. Each such corporation involves tens of thousands of individuals.

There is no room in a culture that large for a single overriding statement of character. What Dex described above, about efficiency and results being paramount may be a valid perspective on the Lai Dai orthodoxy, but NOH for example might actually prefer a bit of initiative and free-thinking in its citizenry, and Hyasyoda might downright rely on it.

All of the above goes double for the Federation.

If I were to try and compile a list of Caldari traits, it would be long, detailed, and occasionally contradictory.

Ruthless, principled, unscrupulous, honourable, collectivist, independent, proud, subservient, nationalistic, meritocratic, patriotic, callous, cold, conservative, traditionalist, formal, professional, mercenary, capitalist, materialist, spiritual, calculating, introverted and so many more that can't be summarized in one word. There is no single word that describes somebody who seems distant and unapproachable at first glance, but turns out to be interesting and likeable once you've got to know them. no single word conveys being slow to make friendship, but intensely loyal once one has formed. How do you go about summarizing a culture which is formal and proper at most times, but still knows how to throw a wild party when the time is right?

One thing I love about the Caldari is the insinuation (from the Civire female description) that the State has near-total gender equality, and probably a very high tolerance for ethnicity, which is perfectly in keeping with a meritocratic attitude. That's not something that gets touched on very often, and it isn't a mark of a society defined by widespread oppression. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Again, much of the above and more holds true for the Gallente. You can't dismiss them as "hedonistic" in no small part because that term is often catastrophically misunderstood. Hedonism does not mean a pursuit of gluttonous excess - it merely means the pursuit of pleasurable experience. For some, the most fulfilling and pleasurable experiences are those pertaining to finding a higher cause and devoting yourself to supporting it. Patriotism and military service and can both fulfill a hedonistic impulse, depending on the individual's values. The difference between hedonism and gluttony can be the difference between willingly signing yourself over to somebody else's authority, and being into sexual domination and bondage.

The Federation has its own character, one that I'll not attempt to summarize here. It is emphatically NOT spineless, however. Anything but, in fact: I'd argue that it takes more spine for a person raised in a culture that traditionally places a high value on personal freedom and the pursuit of private fulfilment to sign up for military service, than for a person raised in a culture which values sacrifice for the collective good to do so.

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2009.07.17 13:50:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
There is no room in a culture that large for a single overriding statement of character. What Dex described above, about efficiency and results being paramount may be a valid perspective on the Lai Dai orthodoxy, but NOH for example might actually prefer a bit of initiative and free-thinking in its citizenry, and Hyasyoda might downright rely on it.

One, we are not in disagreement.

I was attempting to describ the corporate drive towards profit earnings as driving efficiency. Initiative and free-thinking and free thinking can be done in efficient manner. This corporate efficiency archetype (to which I am not immune) is part of how the State ends up getting improperly portrayed. (There are plenty of inefficiencies there)

---

A great piece of Prime Fiction for understanding how much Caldari culture varies is Masks of Authority.

Dengen Krastinov
Amarr
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.07.18 09:54:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Dengen Krastinov on 18/07/2009 09:55:40
When I said already taken I meant that my alliance , the Federal Republic, is the manifestation of Starship Troopers in eve, nuff said. The federation is not a fascist government nor is the caldari state.

When a political scientist after ww2 tried to typify **** germany he said that it wasn't really capitalist because it lacked the market freedom of the west, but it wasn't communist because it lacks the collectivization and state control of all aspects of culture.

The Federal Republic is a fascist alliance with one supreme dictator and a sub council of cronies that dispose of the potentates orders to the lesser "work, work" peasants.

If your interested in joining a fascist government and pledging your "courage, duty, and honor" to our cause then join chat channel VENGIR for more information.

We accept all SP's depending on merit and maturity. Based in low sec.


 

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