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VanNostrum
Posted - 2009.07.14 11:02:00 - [31]
 

are the new drones T3?
If not, why should they be better than T2 drones anyway?

Cyberman Mastermind
Posted - 2009.07.14 11:24:00 - [32]
 

WRT balance.
I thought that was the reason bandwith was introduced? Being able to finetune drones?

You know, like giving drone boats MORE bandwith and having better drones using MORE bandwith, thus allowing drone boats to use 5 better drones and non-drone boats only 3 (or whatever).

The limit of 5 drones is hardcoded anyway, isn't it?

Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.07.14 11:28:00 - [33]
 

Because they are tech 1 drones, they shouldn't invalidate tech 2 drones completely.

DTson Gauur
Caldari
Blend.
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2009.07.14 11:28:00 - [34]
 

Oh god, who let Siigari out of the cage again?

Siigari: If you haven't deduced it yet... NOBODY cares about your whineage.

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.07.14 11:49:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 14/07/2009 11:49:46

Where are you getting this information from?

I can't see it in eve portal or the devblog from some quick browsing.

I'll come back when/if someone decides to link to where CCP implied or said this...

Ummm, augmented drones are already ingame.

Sir Muffoon
Debitum Naturae
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:09:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 14/07/2009 11:49:46

Where are you getting this information from?

I can't see it in eve portal or the devblog from some quick browsing.

I'll come back when/if someone decides to link to where CCP implied or said this...

Ummm, augmented drones are already ingame.


http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=671

Remember to scroll down.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:12:00 - [37]
 

I could imagine it this way:

CCP > Hey guyes we give you a new kind of faction drones.
Players > Will they be this useless like your argumented Drones.
CCP > Yes, but they come from the LP store so we donīt need to fix the BPC drops of the first ones.
Players > So you still want to introduce a Drone that is fare more expensive and does less damage with a bit of more HP and tracking.
CCP > Yes, we think they would be great.
Players > For what?
CCP > Duno, we let the players find it out.

It is preaty meh, if ccp actualy want to give drone uses realy a new choice they would need to do as mutch damage as the T2 ones. The extra HP and tracking is nice but you allready have to pay for this a premium(duno, 3-5 M per Drone in the long run?), with less DPS is preaty stupid(drones are like Amno in the end in PVP and you lose the quite often).

Also the argumented drones need fixing of her stats and the drop rate of the BPCs(they are nothing more like collectors items atm).

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:26:00 - [38]
 

Don't like 'em, dont use them. These aren't for missioning.

Valkyries that have even better tracking and are twice tough for an inty to kill quickly? Yes plx!

Lunewraith
Amarr
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:26:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: The Djego
I could imagine it this way:

CCP > Hey guyes we give you a new kind of faction drones.
Players > Will they be this useless like your argumented Drones.
CCP > Yes, but they come from the LP store so we donīt need to fix the BPC drops of the first ones.
Players > So you still want to introduce a Drone that is fare more expensive and does less damage with a bit of more HP and tracking.
CCP > Yes, we think they would be great.
Players > For what?
CCP > Duno, we let the players find it out.

>snip<


First thing to come to mind is using them against Sleepers. Quote "+100% armor and shield hitpoints next to TII drones" will make them quite durable with good skills. The tracking bonus will be useful in pvp. The damage loss is the tradeoff (theres always tradeoffs) but not an overly punitive one imo.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:27:00 - [40]
 

I just want to realize that if ANYTHING, only medium drones are going to be purchased and perhaps lights for more HP. But let's be real here -- light drones are disposable due to low cost.

Sadly, heavies are not going to be purchased no matter how you cut it. 10% additional tracking on something with already awesome tracking isn't going to make it track any better.

An Ogre II tracks at 0.36 (which is pretty amazing for a gun with a 125m2 sig -- it's better than a Heavy Electron Blaster II). What good is the extra 10% tracking going to do for it?

For starters, Warrior IIs track 3.26 @ 25m2 sig. Wow.

Hammerhead IIs track 0.922 @ 125m2 sig (*dun dun*)

Ogre IIs track 0.36 @ 125m2 sig. That's fast.

Berserker IIs track 0.567 @ 125m2 sig. Pow much?


At level 5, a rack of Ogre IIs does 475 DPS. That DPS usually happens because your drones are always in range of your target (rare circumstances cause this to be otherwise, but typically if the drones are out and on the target they're hurting it).

With a 15% damage reduction, you're looking at cutting out 70 DPS. That means at level 5, a rack of Gallente Navy Ogres will do 403.75 DPS. Excited much? :\

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:32:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 14/07/2009 12:33:39
Actually I retract my statement above. I'll be getting a bunch of Fed Navy Hammerheads for missioning with. They'll be great for killing those annoying elite frigates.

Edit: Tracking boosted sentries that are now far less vulnerable to bombs ftw! Hahaha sucks to be a bomber pilot now.

CCP Ytterbium

Posted - 2009.07.14 12:38:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Rua
Rolling Eyes

Adding faction drones that do more damage than T2 would simply obsolete T2 drones in the same way faction ammo crushed the need for T2 close range ammo. For once CCP has learned from there mistakes and slotted the drones into a niche instead of just MOAR DEEPS LOLOL.

If you cannot see the uses for HP boosted uber tracking drones then you should try to experience more of eve's gameplay and gain a better understanding of mechanics so you can better understand gamechanges. As a frigate pilot I am NOT looking forward to dealing with light drones that have twice as many hitpoints and better tracking...


This mainly. We wanted to introduce new faction drones that were not better in any single way than their Tech II counterparts not to overshadow them. We provided them with a different role for what they are meant to be used into, primarly Factional Warfare and low-security space PvP.

Of course they still have their uses in other activities, like mission running and ratting, but may provide less appeal than pure damage oriented drones in such circumstances.

Consider faction drones like a different tool in your arsenal to accomplish a different goal. If you want pure damage where there is little chance your drones will be targeted, go for Tech II; if you prefer to lose a bit of DPS for increased survivability, pick faction. There is a choice for you to make and options to consider, choice which would not exist if we made them best at everything.

Rua
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:41:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Rua on 14/07/2009 12:42:06
So to sum up this thread you are whining because you didnt get a dps boost?

Baaaaw CCP won't gief me moar deeps baaaaaw. Seriously grow up, so what if faction ogre's are not going to be an auto-choice everytime you load your drone bay. It is a good thing that it's not an automatic choice, EVE need's less "best in slot" and more tradeoffs.

Just because you cannot think of a situation where trading off dps for more HP is a good thing does not mean no-one else has. For instance I would be using them in any outlawed domi, because they can take twice as much punishment from sentry guns as T2 can.

Edit: dev quoted ugh epeen +1

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:41:00 - [44]
 

ibtm

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:46:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Consider faction drones like a different tool in your arsenal to accomplish a different goal. If you want pure damage where there is little chance your drones will be targeted, go for Tech II; if you prefer to lose a bit of DPS for increased survivability, pick faction. There is a choice for you to make and options to consider, choice which would not exist if we made them best at everything.

Do you have any plans for giving the ability for drones to do more damage than the traditional methods as of right now?

Tiny Tove
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:51:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Consider faction drones like a different tool in your arsenal to accomplish a different goal. If you want pure damage where there is little chance your drones will be targeted, go for Tech II; if you prefer to lose a bit of DPS for increased survivability, pick faction. There is a choice for you to make and options to consider, choice which would not exist if we made them best at everything.

Do you have any plans for giving the ability for drones to do more damage than the traditional methods as of right now?


Can you leave the horse alone?
It's dead. It just popped it's head up to confirm it is dead. But that was just a reflex. It's definitely dead. Flogging it won't bring it back to life.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2009.07.14 12:54:00 - [47]
 

/me mutters boost gallente

Tiny Tove
Posted - 2009.07.14 13:00:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
/me mutters boost gallente

Amusingly, it was called a nano nerf.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.14 13:01:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 14/07/2009 12:33:39
Actually I retract my statement above. I'll be getting a bunch of Fed Navy Hammerheads for missioning with. They'll be great for killing those annoying elite frigates.

Edit: Tracking boosted sentries that are now far less vulnerable to bombs ftw! Hahaha sucks to be a bomber pilot now.


Yeah sounds great to abandon 15 M in Sentrys instead of 4 M now for warp outs, awsome.

I think I heard the "Donīt like them donīt use them." about the argumented drones to(ofc this would only matter if the BPC drop rate would get fixed). Many people are all so exited about "new stuff" than they realise that it sucks to lose a extra 10-15 M any time they have to warp out, or get blown up and we will see how fast people realise that the ok advantage(HP, tracking) is barly worth the cost but not the drawback in the end(-10% DPS).
Then we end up with another useless item.

There is not this huge point in the extra HP beside using them under gate aggro(where even T2 drones are quite expensive to use) or in Drone ships where the HP Bonus makes some sence, even if people prefere to shoot the ship instead of the drones in most cases since it is quicker to kill it than all of his drones. OK the "A ceptor attacking my lonly ship somewhere." and I have no Neut fitted is a fair point but this is extremly rare.

TL,TR We will see in 6 Month if people use them and if people complain. I think we know how good CCP is at unnerfing prenerfed things, so It might be more effective(if effective at all) to point out the flaws of this idea before the get live on the server. Rolling Eyes


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.07.14 13:06:00 - [50]
 

Good stuff in "will cost more" non-shocker.

I'd forgottn the hp bonus from drone ships. These things will be pretty tough.

Looking forward to trying a Sniper Ishtar with FN Omni tracker as well. CN Wardens should be nice for that.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.14 13:14:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Originally by: Rua
Rolling Eyes

Adding faction drones that do more damage than T2 would simply obsolete T2 drones in the same way faction ammo crushed the need for T2 close range ammo. For once CCP has learned from there mistakes and slotted the drones into a niche instead of just MOAR DEEPS LOLOL.

If you cannot see the uses for HP boosted uber tracking drones then you should try to experience more of eve's gameplay and gain a better understanding of mechanics so you can better understand gamechanges. As a frigate pilot I am NOT looking forward to dealing with light drones that have twice as many hitpoints and better tracking...


This mainly. We wanted to introduce new faction drones that were not better in any single way than their Tech II counterparts not to overshadow them. We provided them with a different role for what they are meant to be used into, primarly Factional Warfare and low-security space PvP.

Of course they still have their uses in other activities, like mission running and ratting, but may provide less appeal than pure damage oriented drones in such circumstances.

Consider faction drones like a different tool in your arsenal to accomplish a different goal. If you want pure damage where there is little chance your drones will be targeted, go for Tech II; if you prefer to lose a bit of DPS for increased survivability, pick faction. There is a choice for you to make and options to consider, choice which would not exist if we made them best at everything.


Ok, so a Drone cost 1.25m and 1250 LP atm(and I think this LP will be worth a bit more than the standard ones since you also have other nice offers). So calling it 3 M/Drone on the market would be actualy low. That is 15 M for 5 Drones(what makes them pointless for anything apart of HAC, CS or BS).

The HP advantage is only worth it if the drone get shot(what is not this likly since you might want to loot them and killing the ship first is faster most of the time). The extra tracking is nice, but nothing special and hardly worth 10% damage.

If the drones would cost the same as T2 that might be ok but this will not be the case and the simple reason why people wonīt realy use them in PVP.

At least go -5% damage instead of -10%(what is the same diffrence from Faction to T2 guns).

Btw Faction amno killed the T2 close range Amno market because T2 close range amno is awfull in most of the cases by his penaltys(tracking mostly) that make them mostly useless at her intendet range(closerange). Rolling Eyes

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.07.14 13:44:00 - [52]
 

the equivilant or warrior 2's with more health and trcking , that would scare loads of small ship pilots Very Happy

LUH 3472
Posted - 2009.07.14 13:44:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: LUH 3472 on 14/07/2009 13:46:31
i find it nuts that a heavy dron that is even smaller in size and muc more manuverable then a small frigate cant hit it

that just doesnt fit from a realisitc standpoint but then was eve evere realistic

the speeds are ok
no quarrely with that but tracking hello ccp what changes are you making again

without really having looked at it thouroughly i call this one fail

edit: otherwise i like the changes been madeSmile

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.14 14:11:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Armoured C
the equivilant or warrior 2's with more health and trcking , that would scare loads of small ship pilots Very Happy

This, and Valks, holy **** do want.

Just because they don't have higher damage doesn't mean they'll be useless.

If anything, CCP fix the damn drone rigs! and maybe alter the Ishtars bonuses to remove the gun damage bonus for another drone bonus, make it an actual drone ship.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.07.14 14:49:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Armoured C
the equivilant or warrior 2's with more health and trcking , that would scare loads of small ship pilots Very Happy

This, and Valks, holy **** do want.

Just because they don't have higher damage doesn't mean they'll be useless.

If anything, CCP fix the damn drone rigs! and maybe alter the Ishtars bonuses to remove the gun damage bonus for another drone bonus, make it an actual drone ship.


This. +5% drone speed/level please!

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.14 14:55:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 14/07/2009 14:55:05
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Armoured C
the equivilant or warrior 2's with more health and trcking , that would scare loads of small ship pilots Very Happy

This, and Valks, holy **** do want.

Just because they don't have higher damage doesn't mean they'll be useless.

If anything, CCP fix the damn drone rigs! and maybe alter the Ishtars bonuses to remove the gun damage bonus for another drone bonus, make it an actual drone ship.


This. +5% drone speed/level please!

That is my dream bonus, admittedly, but I'm not sure if it would be approved.

Super Speeding Warrior II's, it would be a flurry of movement and an interceptor wreck.

Yes please change the Ishtar bonus to that!

rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2009.07.14 15:27:00 - [57]
 

If you're going to boost drones, then I demand that every ship that has drone bonuses, such as Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim, Ishtar, Dominix, Myrmidon, etc. loses turret slots.

I don't care how it's done, whether it be a drone damage module that needs a turret slot, or a drone bandwidth reduction dependent on turret count, whatever.

Cypherous
Minmatar
Lions of Judah Incorporated
Posted - 2009.07.14 15:37:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Rua

Just because you cannot think of a situation where trading off dps for more HP is a good thing does not mean no-one else has. For instance I would be using them in any outlawed domi, because they can take twice as much punishment from sentry guns as T2 can.

Edit: dev quoted ugh epeen +1


Yes because drones even with double HP can tank sentry fire that stuff hurts

Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
Posted - 2009.07.14 15:37:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Drones seem to be capped. WHY?


Because CCP said so. Skill Lasers.

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.14 15:55:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: rodensteiner
If you're going to boost drones, then I demand that every ship that has drone bonuses, such as Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim, Ishtar, Dominix, Myrmidon, etc. loses turret slots.

I don't care how it's done, whether it be a drone damage module that needs a turret slot, or a drone bandwidth reduction dependent on turret count, whatever.


They had better been boosted entirely to compensate, but i'd agree with that no problem.

Would be easier just to remove, you know, the gun bonuses on some of them.


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