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blankseplocked Idea - For Mom - Cloaked pocket grid
 
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Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.07.12 14:13:00 - [1]
 

Basically a form of Siege/Triage mode for a Mothership.

When it enters this mode, it creates a "cloaked pocket grid" about the size of a Med POS bubble.

All ships inside the grid are cloaked relative to all ships outside the grid, but the ships inside the grid are not cloaked to each other.
You are free to lock any ships inside the grid, except the Mom while it is in this mode.

Only the CPG (cloaked pocket grid) can be scanned down, similar to how Wormholes are scanned down. When you scan one down, you end up on grid with it, but at a random distance.
The way to discover where it is would be to watch for ships warping to and from the CPG, their backets would appear as they accelerated and deccelerated outside the CPG.

The mode haves 10min cycles and lasts as long as there is stront to support it in the Moms cargo hold.

Things you should probably be able to do while inside the CPG.
-Lock other ships
-warp out
-use cloaking devices
-jump to cyno
-log out, as in POS
-have gang mates warp to you

Things you should probably not be able to do while inside the CPG.
-pop cyno
-actvate clone vat bays

This could allow the Mom to function as more of a Mothership to ships in hostile space.
If used with Recons/Stealth Bombers, it would be very hard to pin down. Ideal for extended Black Ops missions, just down't warp your Black Ops to it very often.





Ardetia
Caldari
Killer Koalas
Posted - 2009.07.12 16:43:00 - [2]
 

i think this is a great idea :)
CCP will have to make this viable and not too overpowered

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.07.12 23:06:00 - [3]
 

A few things I forgot to mention and should clarify:

-This isn't a shield, its a pocket grid that cloaks all within it from the rest of the solar system.
-An enemy could enter the CPG just as easily as anyone else, once it's found.
-Might want to allow the Mom to be targeted while it's in this mode, but its defenses should be far greater than normal.
-The pocket grid probably shouldn't be able to be created on an existing perminate grid, such as a POS, Astral Body, Station, and etc. This probably shouldn't be able to be deployed right next to a POS or Station.

-Rho

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.07.13 08:27:00 - [4]
 

Quote:
Only the CPG (cloaked pocket grid) can be scanned down, similar to how Wormholes are scanned down.

Then what's the point? If the mom+fleet is on grid, you can see it anyway, and if it's off grid, you can probe it down in the same way that you can probe down individual ships atm.

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.07.13 12:11:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: steave435
Quote:
Only the CPG (cloaked pocket grid) can be scanned down, similar to how Wormholes are scanned down.

Then what's the point? If the mom+fleet is on grid, you can see it anyway, and if it's off grid, you can probe it down in the same way that you can probe down individual ships atm.


The point would be to make it harder to probe down than any of the individual ships, including intercepers.
I guess it esentially would be a "cloaked safe spot" being generated by the Mom, that anyone could enter if they were able to find it, but I think it should be able to be scanned down somehow.

And when you do probe it down, you should only end up on the same grid as the CPG, at a random distance, not right next to it.
You would need to observe non-cloaked ships entering and leaving to get a good idea of where it is at.

If that fails due to only cloakers comming and going, it would be a matter of finding a "cloaked" Med POS bubble sized object within the grid you are on.

This should be a challenge to find, but not impossible to find. And if it is detected, the defenders should have a fair chance to get the Mom out.




Bibbleibble
Posted - 2009.07.13 12:16:00 - [6]
 

I've always thought that motherships should have a deadspace generator, that runs off a limited supply of fuel.

Whilst it is running you cannot warp onto the grid with the MS on, but you can warp out.

As long as the fuel is limited, and there is no way into the deadspace bubble with other ships, it should be fine, and a whole new purpose for the Mothership.

Mark Galean
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.13 13:51:00 - [7]
 

/signed

This would be fun, and give moms an even better roleset ingame. One thing that it should disallow though is that the vat-bays should be disabled, as in that it goes into 'station-mode' (kind of like triagemode, anyone?)

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2009.07.13 13:58:00 - [8]
 

I prefer to see a remote cloaking device another smaller ship will fit and help generate a cloak for the capital class vessel.

Possibly the often spoken of tech II tier III battlecruisers, working in a flagship capacity setting up this deadspace around the mothership, creating something more than just a cloak with their shared bond.

Re'taka
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.07.13 14:03:00 - [9]
 

Idk this has potential, A mother ship jumps in system, warps to a safe and setups a cloaking field, it looks like a good place to stage from, but you might want to limit the range to be very small on this field. You don't want more then the ship can clone jump in fitting inside the field. This way its a good logistics platform for gangs working deep in enemy space. But doesn't allow you to hide a whole fleet.

Ardetia
Caldari
Killer Koalas
Posted - 2009.07.13 14:10:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Rhohan
Originally by: steave435
Quote:
Only the CPG (cloaked pocket grid) can be scanned down, similar to how Wormholes are scanned down.

Then what's the point? If the mom+fleet is on grid, you can see it anyway, and if it's off grid, you can probe it down in the same way that you can probe down individual ships atm.


The point would be to make it harder to probe down than any of the individual ships, including intercepers.
I guess it esentially would be a "cloaked safe spot" being generated by the Mom, that anyone could enter if they were able to find it, but I think it should be able to be scanned down somehow.

And when you do probe it down, you should only end up on the same grid as the CPG, at a random distance, not right next to it.
You would need to observe non-cloaked ships entering and leaving to get a good idea of where it is at.

If that fails due to only cloakers comming and going, it would be a matter of finding a "cloaked" Med POS bubble sized object within the grid you are on.

This should be a challenge to find, but not impossible to find. And if it is detected, the defenders should have a fair chance to get the Mom out.




it should work like a regular cloak except the cloak is the bubble
once you are within 2-5km of it it will decloak and voila Embarassed

Lifelongnoob
Caldari
The Motley Crew Reborn
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2009.07.13 15:04:00 - [11]
 

why not dock your ships on the mom and cloak the mom?

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.07.13 16:26:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lifelongnoob
why not dock your ships on the mom and cloak the mom?
I presume because then you'd have an invisible Mom, and a **** ton of defenseless Pods.

Ardetia
Caldari
Killer Koalas
Posted - 2009.07.13 16:44:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Lifelongnoob
why not dock your ships on the mom and cloak the mom?


the dock is a lie

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2009.07.13 18:43:00 - [14]
 

How about less cloaks

Too many ninja ideas nowadays..

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.07.13 20:07:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ardetia


it should work like a regular cloak except the cloak is the bubble
once you are within 2-5km of it it will decloak and voila Embarassed


This would be problematic when there are ships warping to and from it.

A cloaked hostile would be able to enter the field, cloaked, and give intel on what's in there.
Then you could have anything you want warp to the scout, once a course of action is decided.

Also, a defending cloaker could exit the field and observe if there are hostiles trying to sweep for the CPG.

Could be interesting. Smile


steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.07.13 23:31:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Rhohan
Originally by: steave435
Quote:
Only the CPG (cloaked pocket grid) can be scanned down, similar to how Wormholes are scanned down.

Then what's the point? If the mom+fleet is on grid, you can see it anyway, and if it's off grid, you can probe it down in the same way that you can probe down individual ships atm.


The point would be to make it harder to probe down than any of the individual ships, including intercepers.
I guess it esentially would be a "cloaked safe spot" being generated by the Mom, that anyone could enter if they were able to find it, but I think it should be able to be scanned down somehow.

And when you do probe it down, you should only end up on the same grid as the CPG, at a random distance, not right next to it.
You would need to observe non-cloaked ships entering and leaving to get a good idea of where it is at.

If that fails due to only cloakers comming and going, it would be a matter of finding a "cloaked" Med POS bubble sized object within the grid you are on.

This should be a challenge to find, but not impossible to find. And if it is detected, the defenders should have a fair chance to get the Mom out.





Would you tie down a ~20B isk ship for 10 minutes just to make your safespot slightly harder to find?

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.07.14 11:29:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: steave435

Would you tie down a ~20B isk ship for 10 minutes just to make your safespot slightly harder to find?


Its more than just a slightly harder to find safespot. The only feature disabled on the Mom would be the Clone Vat Bay.
You would be free to regroup, rearm, refit, repair, and swap ships as needed.

Even when it is successfully scanned down with a 100% hit, you should only land 200km-300km from it when you warp in, and if you're only looking for it with cloakers, good luck, unless there are non-CovOps cloak ships comming and going.

Sweeping for it with Inties would be a dead give away of course, but the Mom should have enough time to stop the cycle, align, and warp, then cloak at a Safe. Just make sure you have plenty of jammers in case a small fleet of Heavy Interdictors show up.

This shouldn't be for the average 10 man gang, but a small fleet of dozens working in hostile space. Basically, the defender should be able to disrupt what you are doing, but it should be very difficult to destroy the Mom of a competent gang. Just don't expect to use this in all situations.

In a dis-organized defenders space, you could probably use this freely with all ships types.

In a well-organized defenders space, you should probably use this only with ships that can use CovOps cloaks, and expect to be disrupted, frequently.

You may end up playing the old cat and mouse game but this isn't your friendly CovOps just hanging around and looking at things, so it needs to be dectectable to some degree.
But, once detected there should be a heavy advantage to the Mom pilot to get out safely, as long as he is supported by enough friendly pilots.


JuicyCakes
UK Corp
Posted - 2009.07.14 17:38:00 - [18]
 

Very interesting idea, though I see a problem with it.

If you get 4-5 probers to all scan down the deadspace, or have 1 prober do multiple scans, you can average out the scanned positions to get the actual position quite easily.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.07.14 18:05:00 - [19]
 

Actually I think this has quite a bit of potential - especially if we can tweak the cloaking mechanics of capital ships.

Take away the ability for Caps and Supercaps to cloak, they can still fit a cloaking device which will reduce their signature radius for scanning, but I've never liked the idea of 5 mile long ship becoming invisible. Give the mothership module this cloaked grid capability, it can be completely hidden because it's not a permacloak, it needs fuel to keep running. I don't think that making it unscannable is such a bad idea.

Inside this cloaked safe spot most things are possible so it's a spot for fleet logistics in a hostile system. But there should be no cynos in or out of this grid (after all that would disrupt the cloak and give away your location).

So when a titan JB's in a fleet it brings a mothership along as a support ship to setup a staging area, titans will be unable to cloak unless they have a mothership to generate this secure grid.


Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.07.15 11:58:00 - [20]
 

I'll take this a little further...

I've been hesitant to go along with this CPG not being scanable, but I guess it furthers the idea of the Mom creating a "safe haven" for a fleet in hostile space.
I've always thought that only certain ships should be able to fit a cloak, such as T1 Astrometrics, or T2/T3 with Cloaking bonuses.

If the the removal of the cloaking ability for most ships, and this added ability to the Mom happened at the same time, it would remove some frustration that roaming gangs have had with cloakable ratters, and dramatically increase the importance to having a Mother Ship with you on extented infiltration operations.
Kind of allowing it to fulfil its actual "Mother Ship" role.

-So, give the Mom the ability to create an unscanable "cloaking field" in which the ones inside it are not cloaked to each other. They would be free to perform most actions, such as remote repping, changing ships, and etc.
-Only allow the fitting of cloaks on T1 Astrometrics, or T2/T3 with Cloaking bonuses.
-Or, allow the fitting of cloaks on all ships, but only the "cloaking" ships cloak, the rest have their scan res reduced dramatically, resulting in ships such as inties being nearly impossible to scan.

The unscanable cloaking field by the Mom can be countered by spys, instead of scanning.



el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.07.15 14:15:00 - [21]
 

Wait ... so you people all agree that Motherships need to have a battlefield purpose relative to their cost?

Blasphemy. Wink

JuicyCakes
UK Corp
Posted - 2009.07.15 14:26:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Rhohan
I'll take this a little further...

I've been hesitant to go along with this CPG not being scanable, but I guess it furthers the idea of the Mom creating a "safe haven" for a fleet in hostile space.
I've always thought that only certain ships should be able to fit a cloak, such as T1 Astrometrics, or T2/T3 with Cloaking bonuses.

If the the removal of the cloaking ability for most ships, and this added ability to the Mom happened at the same time, it would remove some frustration that roaming gangs have had with cloakable ratters, and dramatically increase the importance to having a Mother Ship with you on extented infiltration operations.
Kind of allowing it to fulfil its actual "Mother Ship" role.

-So, give the Mom the ability to create an unscanable "cloaking field" in which the ones inside it are not cloaked to each other. They would be free to perform most actions, such as remote repping, changing ships, and etc.
-Only allow the fitting of cloaks on T1 Astrometrics, or T2/T3 with Cloaking bonuses.
-Or, allow the fitting of cloaks on all ships, but only the "cloaking" ships cloak, the rest have their scan res reduced dramatically, resulting in ships such as inties being nearly impossible to scan.

The unscanable cloaking field by the Mom can be countered by spys, instead of scanning.





I think that idea is really awsome, but the official counter should not be "spies".

Maybe a possible counter could be a titan system wide mini-doomsday script that does 30 damage per shot (with the current reloading times) and that decloaks all ships temporarily.

Destruction Theory
Posted - 2009.07.15 16:52:00 - [23]
 

You've sort of gone.. downhill m8, I think that instead of the mom having the module, it has the CAPABILITY to absorb remote cloaking devices from other ships, and when 10 are being used at once on it, it creates the field your talking about, but it is scannable, but its 100% harder then anything else

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.07.15 17:17:00 - [24]
 

No no no... It's quite simple really.

Since the discovery and subsequent invention of Tech 3 devices, it's become apparent that pilots can be tied symbiotically to their ships in order to increase performance.

That's why a pilot loses SP when their T3 explodes.


So... we'll make this Remote Cloaking Bubble Generator and it can be used by any Capital, but the pilot will pay for each activation by sacrificing 1 level off their highest trained skill.

Laughing


 

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