open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked [BTF] BIG Trust Fund
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.07.02 18:51:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: TornSoul on 02/07/2009 19:11:19
http://BTF.BIG-EVE.comPlease visit your user settings to enable images.
BTF.BIG-EVE.COM


As of this post the BIG Trust Fund is open to the general public.

It has in fact been operating for the past 4 months already, as it was decided to do an extended "pilot run" before opening it up to the general public.


So what is the BIG Trust Fund excactly?

Basically it's a way for you to pass on a monthly income from production of (valuable) T2 BPO's to friends, perpetually, should you decide to retire as capsuleer.

The front page of the BIG Trust Fund website describes this in tree short paragraphs, just with a bit more embelishment Wink - Please go have a look.

------

If retirering as a capsuleer, you have a couple of options with regards to your possessions:

1: Do nothing, just leave them (Good thing if you choose to come out of retirement)
2: Liquidate all or parts, and distribute the ISK and none liquidated items among friends.

The BIG Trust Fund offers a 3rd option

3: Keep the most valuable ISK making items (almost by default expensive T2 BPO's) in production with a trusted 3rd party, who takes care of of distributing the profits to designated Beneficiaries each month.


The main advantage of the BIG Trust Fund option is that, over time, it will accrue a greater amount of ISK for the Beneficiaries.

The problem is of course finding that trusted 3rd party.


4 months ago (lets call him) Mr X chose BIG as that trusted 3rd party.

Mr X approaching me about this came totally out of the blue, and was somewhat bittersweet, as it's someone I've personally had other business relationships with over quite a number of years, and I'm quite sad to see him retire.

However once the proposal was made, and the technicalities sorted out (actually before Wink), the idea took hold with me to expand this to others as well.
Mr X thought it a great idea as well, and I dedicate the idea of the BIG Trust Fund to him.

And as they say, the rest is history - The multiple Beneficiaries Mr X designated has since recieved a generous monthly payout, that easily can keep them playing EVE forever.


TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.07.02 18:52:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: TornSoul on 02/07/2009 19:10:29

I hope you enjoyed the litte writeup about the "birth" of the BIG Trust Fund Wink

I thought it would make the post a bit more interesting than "just another ad" for a service.

One other thing I'd like to mention is that I've been a bit torn between where to post this post... MD or sell forum?

Ultimatly I decided on MD, as I believe that's where most of the BIG Trust Fund's potential "clients" will come from anyhow.

I'd also like to add that I don't expect the BIG Trust Fund to be a roaring monster of monthly ISK payouts (that's not why I'm doing it) - In fact my expectations are something in the order of 0(zero) to 2 new clients a year.

The reason for this low expectation is mainly that it's a very very select few that can actually take advantage of the service in the first place, and of those, most will probably just choose to liquidate.

But for those few who wishes to beget their friends with a nice monthly income - There it is.


Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2009.07.02 19:20:00 - [3]
 

Good luck with your business... you may want to consider either creating some sort of advertising in your signature, or an off EVE resource like the eve expo - especially if you only expect to take in 1-2 clients/year as your visibility will be very very minimal.


XyphonSinclaire
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
Posted - 2009.07.02 19:46:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Dzil
Good luck with your business... you may want to consider either creating some sort of advertising in your signature, or an off EVE resource like the eve expo - especially if you only expect to take in 1-2 clients/year as your visibility will be very very minimal.



Visibility shouldn't be too much of an issue, considering the variety of other services BIG provides, including (but not limited to) The Big Lottery.

/end shameless plug Very Happy

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2009.07.02 21:49:00 - [5]
 

I like this. Good people to be doing it too =D

Drab Cane
Carbenadium Industries
Posted - 2009.07.03 01:49:00 - [6]
 

Excellent idea!

I'm not familiar with BIG's inner workings - are there already measures in place to help the corp outlast any individual director/CEO?

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.07.03 09:34:00 - [7]
 

I.B.2 doesn't make any sense, I think you're missing a negative.

Chaos Dreams
Posted - 2009.07.03 10:20:00 - [8]
 

Posting to confirm my willingness to be the beneficiary of anyone's endowment who would like to make use of this service and is looking for a worthy recipient. Very Happy

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.07.04 16:50:00 - [9]
 

@Drab Cabe

Bar every BIG member getting hit by a bus at the same time, there should not be any problems Wink


Originally by: Ray McCormack
I.B.2 doesn't make any sense, I think you're missing a negative.

Question

I.B.2 in full states : The Beneficiaries shall retain nor carry any rights to the Assets

I don't see a problem with it?
Could you elaborate?

James Tundra
Gallente
Tundra Investment Fund
Posted - 2009.07.04 17:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: TornSoul
I.B.2 in full states : The Beneficiaries shall retain nor carry any rights to the Assets



The method with which you use the word, "nor" is considered archaic, the usage of the word nor is to be used after the negative word neither. Nor is used after neither to introduce the second member in a series, which is also negative.

The proper usage with your sentence would be,
The Beneficiaries shall neither retain nor carry any rights to the Assets

James Tundra
Gallente
Tundra Investment Fund
Posted - 2009.07.04 17:03:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: James Tundra on 04/07/2009 17:03:24
Double post is fail post.

Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
Posted - 2009.07.04 22:00:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: James Tundra
Originally by: TornSoul
I.B.2 in full states : The Beneficiaries shall retain nor carry any rights to the Assets



The method with which you use the word, "nor" is considered archaic, the usage of the word nor is to be used after the negative word neither. Nor is used after neither to introduce the second member in a series, which is also negative.

The proper usage with your sentence would be,
The Beneficiaries shall neither retain nor carry any rights to the Assets


Confirming that this is the case.

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.07.05 20:04:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: TornSoul on 05/07/2009 20:04:38


Based on the feedback here the wording has been changed.

Thanks.


suicide2121
Bind Torture Kill
Posted - 2009.07.06 03:48:00 - [14]
 

Fantastic service Torn.

Highly recomended for anyone who will be leaving eve and wants to leave their friends wealth that will last and not be spent on something and blown up a week later. Torn is responsible, trustworthy and a valued member of the eve community.

ShadowandLight
Amarr
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.08.05 20:53:00 - [15]
 

Torn, great service, but may i add a suggestion

instead of keeping it forever, why not something like 12 months

then, provided they give u a secert password that was assigned when they 1st signed up, they get the BPO Back

I think it will get you MORE customers if they feel like one day sometime in the future they will get the BPO back in their possession.

Either way, you rock, BIG rocks... and Cool

Trustworthy Joe
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.08.05 21:03:00 - [16]
 

i like this.


good luck with it!

BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
Posted - 2009.08.05 21:59:00 - [17]
 

I can see a BIG ripoff in the future.

Kalrand
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.05 22:48:00 - [18]
 

Quote:
Section C:
# Should a Beneficiary abandon their share, their share shall be distributed to the remaining Beneficiaries in accordance to their existing share of the Trust

1. Abandoned shares can not be re-claimed at a later date.

# Should a sole Beneficiary abandon their share, their share shall be distributed to charity at the discretion of the Trustee

1. The BIG Lottery is a registred charity


Define abandoned? What if someone unsubs for a few months?

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.08.05 22:57:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: BuckStrider
I can see a BIG ripoff in the future.


Given how BIG their anniversary lotteries have gotten, I see no reason to worry excessively about this. If they don't steal 120 bil of ticket money, they're not going to steal BPOs worth some tens of bil.

Also, Torn, I'd say that your proposal would have a lot higher chance of success if you said that the donor kept the nominal ownership of the assets. You're taking 20% of the profits, so even if they take back the asset, you've still been compensated for the time you invested in it.

Elenos
Posted - 2009.08.06 10:06:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Elenos on 06/08/2009 10:07:27
Forgive my understanding.

You pay into the BIG trust fund and then when you quit the game you promise to give monthly returns to my beneficiary - except - I've quit the game, so I can't tell / don't care if you are doing it or not. So essentially I am plying you with money until the day i quit and then you cash in with no obligation to pay out to the other party.

Its a great idea for the trustworthy. But losing a hulk and being podded by new corp members makes me feel less trusting of everyone.

Rivqua
Caldari
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2009.08.06 10:27:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Elenos
Edited by: Elenos on 06/08/2009 10:07:27
Forgive my understanding.

You pay into the BIG trust fund and then when you quit the game you promise to give monthly returns to my beneficiary - except - I've quit the game, so I can't tell / don't care if you are doing it or not. So essentially I am plying you with money until the day i quit and then you cash in with no obligation to pay out to the other party.

Its a great idea for the trustworthy. But losing a hulk and being podded by new corp members makes me feel less trusting of everyone.


I am guessing you never read the actual deal description :)

Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
Posted - 2009.08.06 10:30:00 - [22]
 

I would advise against investing in this IPO.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.08.06 10:44:00 - [23]
 

Quote:

Its a great idea for the trustworthy. But losing a hulk and being podded by new corp members makes me feel less trusting of everyone.



So, you choose a corp where their own members pod you but still preach an established corp how untrustworthly they are?

Elenos
Posted - 2009.08.06 12:09:00 - [24]
 

Don't turn the words around.

I was asking for clarification on the proposal in simple words.

I joined the corp, we had fun together, then new people joined who turned out to be scumbags.


I still don't see how the idea offers anything to people. Once you have left the game you have empowered a 3rd party to look after your stuff and continue to produce from it and distribute the profits to a beneficiary.

Explain to me how other than trusting the OP, the beneficiaries stand to gain anything from this ? I am NOT slating the trustworthiness of the OP.
But at face value this is an elaborate "can I have your stuff when you quit" plea.
The idea behind it - reward your trusted mates when you can longer play is very admirable however the mechanism is so open to abuse the idea would just seem implausible. If you had unconditional trust to the third party then it makes sense.
However if the 3rd party defaults then the people upset are a) the beneficiary who has no power over the controlled goods and b) you, if you come back to the game and find someone making profits off your old stuff and refusing to give/sell it back to you or pay out any dividend to your chosen beneficiary.

Fleshbot
Posted - 2009.08.06 16:53:00 - [25]
 

Or just leave it to the Eve University. These guys provide a great service.

You can always dish out your other assets to your friends (I presume if you have a profitable BPO you lots of other assests as well).

Incidentally what happens after your friends retire? Does the money just get deposited into the dead account


Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.08.06 17:09:00 - [26]
 

Elenos, you should do some research before you start questioning possibly the most trusted corp and individual in EVE history.

Teras Menac
Gallente
Tarantula LLC
The Ancients.
Posted - 2009.08.06 17:18:00 - [27]
 

How are you managing the work to keep those BPOs producing? Is that what your corp is going to be dedicated to? Is there a limit to your capacity to manage various BPOs?

Teavan
First CityWide Change Bank
Posted - 2009.08.06 17:32:00 - [28]
 

I am astounded at the number of people that don't know BIG. Neutral

Elenos
Posted - 2009.08.06 18:45:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack
Elenos, you should do some research before you start questioning possibly the most trusted corp and individual in EVE history.



umm this bit was relevant

"I am NOT slating the trustworthiness of the OP."

I even put it in capitals :-/

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.08.06 19:09:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: ShadowandLight
Torn, great service, but may i add a suggestion

instead of keeping it forever, why not something like 12 months

then, provided they give u a secert password that was assigned when they 1st signed up, they get the BPO Back

I think it will get you MORE customers if they feel like one day sometime in the future they will get the BPO back in their possession.

Either way, you rock, BIG rocks... and Cool


We might expand it to something like that in the future (I'm not ruling it out)

The main reason for not doing it right away is that I the first while would like to keep everything in the spirit of the favor Mr X asked me for.

Ie. his "Can/would you do this for me?" I'd like to keep as close to that simple promise/idea as possible, so that it's truly his last will that unfolds (both with the BPO's he left behind, and with the idea itself)

Secondly - As a personal preference I prefer to keep things as much IC/ingame as at all possible (which rules out the out-of-game hokey-dokey identity stuff for now)

---

Originally by: Kalrand

Define abandoned? What if someone unsubs for a few months?


If someone unsubs for a several months without letting us know, they do run the risk of being declared as having abandoned their share.
Roughly quarterly I will check if people are still around, or if I'm simply wasting time and ISK, wiring their share into a black hole.
It's hard to set up a hard rule for this. But we are not in any rush to declare shares abandonded.

---

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Also, Torn, I'd say that your proposal would have a lot higher chance of success if you said that the donor kept the nominal ownership of the assets. You're taking 20% of the profits, so even if they take back the asset, you've still been compensated for the time you invested in it.

See my reply to ShadowandLight.

This whole concept has all kinds of possible extensions and add'ons that can be implemented. But for now I'm keeping it simple (see reply to ShadowandLight again)

---

Originally by: Elenos
I still don't see how the idea offers anything to people. Once you have left the game you have empowered a 3rd party to look after your stuff and continue to produce from it and distribute the profits to a beneficiary.

Explain to me how other than trusting the OP, the beneficiaries stand to gain anything from this ?
<snip>
If you had unconditional trust to the third party then it makes sense.



Please read about how this whole thing came about in the first place.
It wasn't my idea, but that of a Settlor who came to me.
So... Trust was there from the outset.
If you don't have that trust, the BTF is not for you - Simple as that.

There's really not much else I can add to put your worries at bay I'm afraid.

---

Originally by: Teras Menac
How are you managing the work to keep those BPOs producing? Is that what your corp is going to be dedicated to? Is there a limit to your capacity to manage various BPOs?

In the BIG scheme of things it's hardly even a drop in the bucket compared to all the other stuff BIG is involved in.
We have been doing pretty much the same thing for years with the BMBE (but for a limited time at a time - until a loan is paid of), no to mentione the BIG Deal, and various other ventures.
Is there a limit? Theoretically I guess there is, but Practically we are no where near it.




Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only