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Ashnazg
Corpse Collection Point
Posted - 2009.07.01 12:40:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Ashnazg on 03/07/2009 06:51:57
This thread is actually based on its German precedessor in the German forums. Many thanks to everyone there and special thanks to Magarine and Kain Simmons for their ideas for skills and corpse materials respectively.

Current situation:
T1 implants >> mission rewards / LP shop
T2 implants (pirate implants) >> faction drops
T1 hardwirings >> LP shop / mission drops
T2 hardwirings >> there are none ;)


Idea:

Needed materials and skills:
T1 implants
- drugs (Crash, Blue Pill, etc, NOT the boosters players can use already)
- gas (mainly the less precious ones, e.g. to be found in high/lowsec. implant production should NOT be an nosec boost)
- skills: Cybernetic Production I, Biology IV

T2 implants
- drugs (introduction of new, more rare drugs, that can be used in t2 production, possibly altering of the drop rates)
- gas (same as with drugs)
- the t1 implant
- a BPC of the t1 implant for invention (+datacores etc, but thats not part of this thread.)
- corpse materials
- skills: Cybernetic Productions IV (just production), Biologic Engineering & Racial Encryption Methods (invention)

T1 hardwirings

- drugs
- gas
- certain moon materials (e.g. Hypersynaptic Fibres)
- skills: Advanced Cybernetic Productions I, Biology V, Drug Manufacturing IV

T2 hardwirings

- rare drugs
- rare gas
- certain moonmats
- t1 hardwiring
- t1 hardwiring bpc (...invention, see t2 implants)
- corpse materials
- skills: Adv. Cybernetic Production IV, Drug Manufacturung V (just production), Biologic Engineering & Racial Encryption Methods (invention)

Explanations.
BPOs
ALL implants and hardwirings are REMOVED from mission rewards, LP shops, NPC drops etc. Instead the implant/hardwiring BPOs will be offered for LP in the LP shops.
Hardwirings are assigned different races.
Implants are to be found in all LP shops, hardwirings only in the science corporations (those with R&D agents)

Example: Hardwiring XY-200 is Amarr. You only find its BPs in Amarr and Caldari science corps' LP shops, NOT in Gallente / Minmatar corps. BUT: Caldari corps offers it for 150% of the ISK/LP price (the allied faction = 1.5x the base price)

Corpse materials
Player corpses can be reprocessed in stations with a reprocessing plant, the corpse itself is not destroyed in the process, rather you'd get a 'Depleted Player's Corpse' instead of 'Player's Corpse'. So the necrophiliacs still can have their corpses. ^^
When you recycle a corpse, you get certain (to be implemented) fluids, biologic materials. The amount of materials you get depends on the corpse's previous owner's amount of SP. The more SP your victim had, the more materials you get.
Thats meant as a protection from players abusing trial accounts etc to generate corpse materials. Also the clone's prices is a limit to the material's price: You get more from your corpse than updating the clone costs? Pod yourself!

Drugs
Currently they're useless. New drugs have to be implemented to offer a broader variety of materials, also the missions/deadspaces, where they drop (as standard npc loot), have to be overworked (e.g. implementing special structures, namely 'Drug Lab's, that drop those drugs en masse). The drugs should drop related to their implant's race, e.g. drugs needed for minmatar hardwirings drop from Angels/Thukkers.
Missionrunners WILL NOT lose their income, as the implants are just replaced by the raw materials.
Drugs should still be ILLEGAL. So afk hauling of implant production materials wont work. :P (would slightly increase the risk of some highsec activities)

Gas
Currently especially the gas in high/lowsec is not worth much, so with an integration into implant production you'd boost gas mining in general.

(next post.)

Ashnazg
Corpse Collection Point
Posted - 2009.07.01 12:40:00 - [2]
 

General changes - implants:
T1 implants, slots 1 - 5: No changes.
T2 implants, ~: Are the current faction (pirate) LOW GRADE imps
Faction implants, ~: The old tier 2 faction imps are the new tier 1 faction imps, additionally there will be new HIGH GRADE imps.

Example, sorted by the side effects' strength:
HIGH GRADE SNAKE > SNAKE > T2 (former LOW GRADE SNAKE) >> T1 (no side effects)
Basically Lowgrade are re-named to T2, highgrade are added.
Faction imps are still only to be found in faction spawns etc.

General changes - hardwirings:
T1 hardwirings, slots 6-10: Tier 1 1%, tier 2 2%, tier 3% bonus to whatever-effect-it-has.
T2 hardwirings, ~: Corresponding to their t1 variants:
(T1 >> T2)
1% >> 4%
2% >> 5%
3% >> 6%

There are NO faction hardwirings


New Skills: (in italics = already in game)
Cybernetic Productions (Rank 5)
-Cybernetics V
-Biology IV
--Science V


Advanced Cybernetic Productions (Rank 8 )
-Cybernetic Productions
--Cybernetics V
--Biology IV
---Science V
-Biology V

Biologic Engineering (Rank 6)
-Biology V
--Science V

RnY IX
Posted - 2009.07.01 13:30:00 - [3]
 

sounds...brilliant!

Louis Trenker
Deep Exploration Projects and Programs
Posted - 2009.07.01 14:49:00 - [4]
 

Great idea, love it, would also give some use to all the funny stuff you find around.

Kaylan Jahlar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.07.01 15:24:00 - [5]
 

Love this!

Daedalus80
Gallente
Posted - 2009.07.01 16:02:00 - [6]
 

I like the Idea of Imps/Hardw. being produced by Players. Thatīs why I support that.

But Iīm not about the drugs thing. It doesnīt make much sense to me to use them to make electical ciruits that Imp/Hardw are. There are so many other useless items that seem to fit better.
Thing is, I donīt really see the necessity of having an illegal activity in the production-chain of a legal product.

The body-salvaging thing sounds interesting. But if you salvage the corpse, you have to cut it apart, therefore the body is being destroyed in the process. Collect it or make money out of it, not bothTwisted Evil

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.07.01 16:24:00 - [7]
 

Supporting this so implants will be used more in 0.0.

Mashashige
Minmatar
Eternal Perseverance
Hellstrome Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.01 18:49:00 - [8]
 

I like very much.


The concept is great, gotta make sure that if its implemented we get proper prices - we cant have every idiot in the game with a full snake set... or can we?Twisted Evil

Bunyip
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.07.02 02:00:00 - [9]
 

Agreed....to an extent. While I would love to see further development in items acquired from NPCs (as in very few items - T1 BPCs and skill books only, perhaps), this idea does need some work. Instead of NPC drugs (which could be used in T2 boosters), how about other trade goods? The possibilities are wide open, but you have a good start.

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.07.02 02:52:00 - [10]
 

Approve... minus the corpse bit... that's just morbid and I can already hear the up-in-arms rioting of parents when a game encourages players to use parts of dead bodies to help improve your character's attributes.

Maybe use salvage instead.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.07.02 06:48:00 - [11]
 

I start to wonder why we actually have LP stores if all the LP items are just going to be sourced from other places instead. Faction weapon spec skillbooks were good in LP stores, and then got seeded on market. Now you want to do that with implants as well? The only thing left will be faction loot, and faction loot tends to be crap because it's limited by tags, and nobody collects tags because you have to lose access to half of empire permanently to get tags in quantity. The current system is fine. I'm all for player industry, but this just seems like an attempt to extend it for the sake of extending it.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.07.02 08:21:00 - [12]
 

CCP had promised implants production from the Midas expansion (the fabled industry expansion), later it was shelved with most of that expansion.

Some of your suggestion are interesting (even if I feel Herschel has pointed a real problem) but this need to be implemented carefully.

Quote:
Example: Hardwiring XY-200 is Amarr. You only find its BPs in Amarr and Caldari science corps' LP shops, NOT in Gallente / Minmatar corps. BUT: Caldari corps offers it for 150% of the ISK/LP price (the allied faction = 1.5x the base price)


This could end with Caldari getting missile, railguns and shield related hardwiring and Gallente only getting blaster hardwiring.

Then there is the fact that no LP store sell BPO. They only sell BPC. Giving them the opportunity to sell a unlimited number run and copyable BP make the reward almost useless in a short timespan. If you add the absurd number of LP necessary to get a BPO from the LP store and you will see that we risk some serious repercussion on the market.

BTW: there are already several T2 hardwiring. Look those requiring cybernetics V.

Bunzan Cardinal
Ascendent.
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.07.02 09:33:00 - [13]
 

i like this Very Happy it would also decrease the cost of the implants i'm sure. I get tired of paying tens/hundreds of millions just for the basic attribute implants.

Scoop EMP
Nuclear Fuel Services

Posted - 2009.07.02 13:48:00 - [14]
 


Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.07.02 15:26:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Bunzan Cardinal
i like this Very Happy it would also decrease the cost of the implants i'm sure. I get tired of paying tens/hundreds of millions just for the basic attribute implants.


You're not a very old player, are you? Two years ago they cost about 3x what they do now.

Myyona
Minmatar
Ataraxia Pharmacies
Posted - 2009.07.02 16:07:00 - [16]
 

While I like the idea of being able to manufacture implants I do not see the reason why to use existing resources for their production. Those resources are already in use somewhere else so let them stay there.

Instead it should be some completely new resources and methods for gathering and production that should be needed to produce implants.

Ashnazg
Corpse Collection Point
Posted - 2009.07.03 07:07:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Ashnazg on 03/07/2009 09:29:25
First: Thanks for all comments here. :)

As far as I can see, there are some major drawbacks in some eyes.

- Drugs: It's indeed somehow weird, that there would be an illegal part in the production of an legal product. Well, see the mission "war of the softdrinks" (or so), especially the recipe. If I am right, there is one drug mentioned in it. So when Quafe produces special soft drinks using illegal drugs, they could also be used in implants. Perhaps the empire factions had certain certificates by CONCORD, that allowed them to use drugs in production, pretty much as today's pharmacy uses morphium etc as well.
To the ingame logics: My thoughts were mainly, that you'd have to use the drugs, so the body doesn't repel the implant.
But it wouldn't destroy the idea's basic structure if you use something else than drugs.

- Corpses: Well, yes it is morbid. ^^ But I don't really care about the maturity aspect.
More interesting is an chronicle I think I read a long time ago, but I couldn't find it to link it here. There was a passage which descibed how a body was dissolved into its basic materials, which could be used in further processes. Perhaps someone else does know which chronicle it was.

- LP shop: Right. Uhm, a first idea would be that LP shops could seed researched BPCs (for T1 production) and unresearched BPCs (for invention). Not sure about that, though. Any real ideas around here?

- Existing resources: I personally think there are by far enough different items ingame. If you add new purposes to old things, you still increase the variety ingame. Somehow. :P

- T2-Hardwirings: Yeah, someone mentioned that in the German forums as well. ;)
Not sure about that, as I am not used to them. Perhaps see them as special t1 hardwirings? (Higher prod costs, other skill requirements in productions than normal hardwirings?)

Edited for less errors.

Franga
NQX Innovations
Posted - 2009.07.03 09:13:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Franga on 04/07/2009 00:02:55
Supported for sure.

EDIT: Just re-read and am not sure where you're going with the idea of drugs being useless? They're excellent as is, tbh. Maybe a little on the expensive side for the harder core drugs, but the standards are spot on, imo.

Why do you say they're useless?

And finally, I still support the idea of corpses being used in implant production. And implants being able to be produced as a general rule.

Nursultan
Pyrotechnics Inc.
Posted - 2009.07.03 11:03:00 - [19]
 

I support this idea - corpses should have their use.

JackdeRipper
Titans of Doom
Posted - 2009.07.03 11:20:00 - [20]
 

We need this :)

Jurinak
Posted - 2009.07.03 11:51:00 - [21]
 

good idea, good concept you made around.

Love the idea,

AAA+

Silvermoon Armanis
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.07.03 14:22:00 - [22]
 

This does sound interesting. Id like to see it work

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.07.03 19:58:00 - [23]
 

Why?

Kralin Ignatov
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Posted - 2009.07.04 02:44:00 - [24]
 

kewl

Xenon Barinade
Caldari
Helix Protocol

Posted - 2009.07.04 07:56:00 - [25]
 


Mahai Ano
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies

Posted - 2009.07.04 16:26:00 - [26]
 

Yes, I want depleted corpses!

Ashnazg
Corpse Collection Point
Posted - 2009.07.04 18:14:00 - [27]
 

@Franga:

I dont mean the boosters, theyre actually great, as far as I can see.

What I meant are the trade good drugs, you current find in missions etc. They dont have any use, apart from being a trade good. Example: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Blue_Pill

Uronksur Suth
Posted - 2009.07.05 07:38:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Nursultan
I support this idea - corpses should have their use.


Shocked

Rama Alcoholic
Gallente
The Fallen Circle Reloaded

Posted - 2009.07.07 11:46:00 - [29]
 

very nice! We really need this.

Verys
I Heart Chaos

Posted - 2009.07.07 13:15:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Verys on 07/07/2009 13:15:50
I like the idea of moving on towards implant manufacturing but I think there are a few problems along the way.


First of all production:

- The drugs which you suggest to be implemented are highly illegal in most empire regions and if they are produced the same way now as when they are now then this makes me wonder how they do it without making implants illegal.
- The gasses are some uncommon it's silly either they boost more gas clouds in high-sec/low-sec or it should not be included in production
- Corpse remains based on sp point might be a little too heavy for the server
- T2 implants should only be able to be produced by buying a bpc from the faction shop of said pirate faction to keep them highly priced production process remains same and they keep dropping from wrecks so you don't undercut 0.0 folks

What I suggest is that implants are build up out of sub-assemblies just like t2 manufacturing to keep the price a bit higher.

Per example a perception implant would exist out of:
- Bio-Electronic neural link (biomass (read corpse), high grade minerals, new R.A.M unit Bio-Electronical Engineering)
- Processing unit (build up out of mid grade minerals, miniature electronic, t1 salvage)
- Implant housing (low-grade minerals)

With a system like this (mine is just an example) you get a more advanced line of production instead of the straight forward put everything togheter and watch it magicly transform to an implant.


Skills:
Rather name Biologic Engineering into Bio-Electronic Engineering to really point out the link of bio and electronic interfacing. Other than that the requirements seem good. Not too high not to low.


In the end I support this idea but the implant production should not be as straight forward as t1 production or include any gasses or drugs.


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