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blankseplocked Tweaks and Changes – The New Player Experience
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Posted - 2009.10.01 20:55:00 - [151]

i'm not english and personnaly AURA help me a lot when she was speaking, i like her voice, i find this is a cool thing, you should make different voice for the different races!!

for the tutorial, you must say/show more things, why don't use giant screen on station (with Incarna) to present some very small video to show all the PvP side of EVE wich is totally inexistant at the start of EVE and not encouraging some players to continue cause the only thing we're seing at the start of EVE are boring missions and boring skills, that's loooong, and that's why (i think) a lot of players (and friends of my) didn't pass over the first step.
Show more but not all, EVE must stay something to discover over the time.

sorry for my defectuous english !!


Posted - 2009.10.02 21:05:00 - [152]

Make part of the tutorial pvp missions, where you take your n00b ship to a room with a bunch of people on the tutorial from opposing factions. People in opposing factions are flashy red to each other, and people in friendly factions are automatically fleeted up. One big n00b battle, let them repeat the mission as many times as they like, but don't allow anything other than n00b ships in the room. Don't allow the mission to be repeated past a certain skill point level though. Give people a chance to experience pvp early on without much consequence.

Gallente Citizen1
Posted - 2009.10.05 17:09:00 - [153]

Allow skills that have no prereqs to be straight injected to brain with no learning time involved. Rank 1 only ofc and give these as a reward for the nuubie career path mission arcs.

Jojo Jackson
Posted - 2009.10.06 06:23:00 - [154]

A big and fat warning about posible scams and traps.
Or a scam/trap detector maybe?

Kiri Serrensun
Posted - 2009.10.06 21:17:00 - [155]

Based on recurring Help channel questions, in no particular order:

1: Explain meta level.

2: Explain what the yellow background and skull mean on player entries and that they don't allow shooting on sight in high sec.

3: Explain that ECCM protects against jamming, but not against NPC jamming because the programming for them is lazy.

4: Explain that warp core stabilisers prevent warp jamming from non-HIC's, but also should never be fitted on combat ships and only on non-combat ones if you already have multiple agility mods.

5: Explain jump clones.

6: Explain bookmarks, especially as they relate to wrecks in finished missions and asteroids to save trundling over there time after time.

7: Explain what rigs are, and that they go in upgrade hardpoints.

8: Explain how standings work, as related to storyline missions, shooting faction navies, and jump clones.

9: Explain what Navy tags do already!

10: Mention that Engineering raises power grid and Electronics raises CPU.

11: Explain the pod-saving trick.

12: Explain that lwesec starts at 0.4

13: Give them links to Agony Unleashed and EVE University.

14: Explain how to find new agents (using the COnnections skill, searching the map and corp info, etc).

15: Explain how to use the map to assess the safety of a jump.

And a pet bugbear--learning skills. They contribute nothing, ditch them.

Posted - 2009.10.07 02:47:00 - [156]

Idea; temporary pilot licence
(Basicly let a player borrow the skills of a existing player, would be like loaning an account so the existing player couldn't be using those skills or maybe that player)
Let a pilot fly ship he doesn't have skills for so new players could test out a profession and decide what they want to train for or could play with some older players with out having to be mining in an ibis while others are mining in hulk, and have that I'm so small feeling.

Not a good idea but maybe someone hear can improve on it...

Cutie Chaser
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2009.10.08 19:53:00 - [157]

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

• The current tutorial. Are all the steps relevant? Is anything missing?

I did all 3 branches of the Amarr tutorial this week, and they were very through and informative, and I noticed no issues,

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

• The current career paths. Are they informative? Are they fun?

They need to be further broken down tb, exploration needs to be split out and made its own career path, not rolled into one of the other ones. In it you should cover: General Scanning, Hacking, Archeology, Salvaging, Cosmic Anomolies, Wormholes, RADAR/LADAR/MAG/GRAV sites.

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

• What newbie content would you like to see added?

1. An encounter where they lose their noobship and see that death isnt the end of the world.
2. HEAT tutorial.
3. Info mentioned above for exploration
4. A new tutorial mission arc for FW that rewards the player with enough faction to join up, and each mission in the arc introduces them to a new module for their ship, yielding a well-fit tier3 frigate of the appropriate race when they finish it(and the tutorial would explain each module they have fitted, and they'd have had to use it to get past that step of the arc).

Jojo Jackson
Posted - 2009.10.09 05:02:00 - [158]

Biggest love (for all, not just Rookies) -> remove learning skills and replace them with fix amounts!
+8 to all attribs (4/4 setup) + refound training time for old player who trained 5/4 or even 5/5 with a limited 100% training time bonus maybe.

First advice to many questions in Help/Rookie channels is: "train learnings to X" where X is between all 4/3 to all 5/5 where all 4/4 eats up about 2 weeks allready.

2 weeks where a Rookie can't do anythink aspezialy with the new 50k SPs.

Posted - 2009.10.11 17:55:00 - [159]

I'm sure this is going to get a lot of boos and hisses from those who come here with new alts, but here goes.

In the game, I've noticed that, other than a very few people, starting out almost requires leaning on an established player, corp or alliance. If you try to make your way through the game on your own, you tend to fail quickly, and then have to look for someone to support you. I'm sure you lose a lot of new potential players to this sort of thing.

I suggest that there needs to be a sense of progression in the game, and a greater sense of independence as well. lowsec and nullsec are popular with people who want to be independent, but no one who hasn't been playing for years and/or has near infinite amounts of ISK or alliance teammates can even GO there. A large number of players join and immediately become pirates because it's one of the mindsets that work best here... screw everyone but yourself and get paid for it. Though pirates DO get destroyed often, let a new or fairly new player wander into the wrong part of even 0.4 sec space and watch them die without even a warning or any thing.

Highsec is pretty large, but I feel it could be made larger. Perhaps by offering some of the major corps and alliances some sort of bonus or... something for securing gates and sections of space just as Condord does... rather than assaulting people who are just passing through. i know combat is a huge part of this game, but the pirates, thieves, thugs and general grief causing types seem to outnumber average players and (if they exist) more lawful types by a huge amount.

Boost the results of completing missions so that people can progress in a noticeable way. At Level 1, getting .06 reputation... six thousandths of a point... for a mission is considered 'average'. Since you often need to gain 1.0 or more to make it to level 2, this seems ridiculous. You'd literally have to grind thousands of missions, often the SAME missions over and over, to get to the next class of missions. There is grinding, and then there's boring, mindless grinding. At least add more types of missions at the lower levels so that people don't begin to get bored doing them. Try to keep things interesting and fresh, not repetitive and boring.

I think the game has a lot of potential and chances for people to *enjoy* it; not just those who have been in it from the beginning, but everyone, new or not. Though corps and alliances are important, they shouldn't be all there is to being a part of this.

Danish Space Pioneers
Posted - 2009.10.11 22:19:00 - [160]

A personal peeve of mine is the warning about your cargohold being too small in many situations. New players can get slightly freaked out by this, and might decline taking on missions due to thinking they will fail the mission. This can easily be corrected by amending the warning, stating that you may take multiple round trips when moving goods, but that some objects are too big per unit (so "Cache of Guns" for instance, which takes up 2000 m3 in L3/L4 missions(?) can be seen to be too big for anything but haulers, but that some of the other missions where you have like 20 objects each taking up 100 m3, are doable.

Have another petion about new player experiences that I will post later

Posted - 2009.10.12 23:11:00 - [161]

Explain boosters and drugs and how you go about using them...I still don't know Embarassed, don't know if I'd use them anyways though...

Dirty Wizard
Posted - 2009.10.13 18:07:00 - [162]

A lot of the newbie mission rewards such as modules and skillbooks cannot be used. This is a throwback to when new characters started with 900k skillpoints and could use them. The mission rewards were never updated to match this 94% reduction in starting SP.

Jojo Jackson
Posted - 2009.10.14 01:12:00 - [163]

Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 14/10/2009 01:15:16
Originally by: Dirty Wizard
A lot of the newbie mission rewards such as modules and skillbooks cannot be used. This is a throwback to when new characters started with 900k skillpoints and could use them. The mission rewards were never updated to match this 94% reduction in starting SP.

Year, just did the fighter and trader missions and got "Hacking" which needs two skills at level 5.
And I got a Badger I ... but not the skillbook to fly it.
While I will not be able to use the Hacking book somewhere soon(TM) I bought the skillbook to fly the Badger now and might fly it in 1 or 2 days. So removing the Hacking book and therefor give the Industrial ship book would help.

For the Hacking skill you might introduse a new agent: Exploration
There is no singel mission from normal agents, where you need a Hacking/Analysing modul (as far as I know). So you can only use it, if you know how to scan.

So this new agent would lead you through a scanning-, hacking-, analysing- mini-arc.

As Hacking and Analysing is part of the fighter-mission now, you need somethink to replace this steps.
How about using ECM, NOS/NEUT, scrambler, target painter, tracking disruptur?

Amandin Adouin
Posted - 2009.10.14 03:23:00 - [164]

Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 14/10/2009 03:36:54
Okay I really hope some devs are still reading this... I have some pretty strong feelings about the New Player experience that I would really like the devs to hear.

First of all I love this game. I've been playing for almost two years now and I have recruited many people into the game - some have stayed, many have not. I am VERY excited about the upcoming changes and I can't wait to see where this game goes. Again, I love this game... so this is all purely in the interest of making it a better game.

First of all, I think the new player experience stinks. And after watching the videos from Fanfest I think you guys are heading in completely the wrong direction with that.

This game is extremely complicated. Yeah we all love it like that. I know. And I know the player base is very intelligent and there is somewhat of a 'well I learned the hard way so should you' mentality... however, if we enjoy playing this game, we should want to see it succeed - thrive - grow - compete. And the first step in that is making the new player experience more simple - more elegant. I don't mean easier. I mean elegant solutions that slowly draw the player in, teach him the ropes in a natural way and then... let the player naturally discover Eve and all the complexity and layers it has.

1) The first thing I recommend for this is - GET RID OF ALL THE READING!
When I started, I didn't want to read a couple dozen small boxes of boring text - and I'm one of those "readers" in rl ;)
I wanted to play the game. And now... I come to find out that you, in trying to improve the New Player experience, have not only gotten rid of Aura - the only good part - but added masses of MORE reading. No one wants to go through that CCP. Come on. Coming from a person who likes to read, and who's first language is English... I can only say that most new players coming from other games will just try to skip through all that, get frustrated and quit. And god help those who can't read English as well as we do. Please don't have the mentality of 'we wouldn't have wanted them anyway' - you need to keep getting new players to not stagnate, to fund future efforts, and to stay competitive. I almost quit in the beginning... now I'm a relatively successful player running a corporation and dipping my toes in all parts of the Eve experience.
So - bring back Aura - get rid of the text screens - find ways of teaching new players in a more natural, elegant way.

2) The second thing I would improve is the UI. You guys did a wonderful job at being very ummm, complete... but frankly the UI is bland, old fashioned, and confusing to new players.
Let's simplify it. Let's make it more intuitive to old gamers and new gamers alike. In my ideal world, you would get rid of the Overview completely. We'd use WASD keys or a more responsive double-click system to move around, with right clicking and context menus/using shortcut keys and click to use modules. This would look so much more modern and would be much more intuitive. The UI could stay as is for now in stations, as it is more relevant there.

3) Third thing - Liven up the place a bit. Eve is a vast lonely place - most of it feels lifeless. And the cool stuff you put in is pretty inaccessible to new players - like the plexes and wormholes.
The changes to the planets and moving the stations closer is a good start. And I hear you're adding comets, ring mining, etc. Great! We want more! Let's see more NPCs at gates and stations, more billboards, space trash, whatever! Liven the place up! And move things closer! We have all these beautiful ships and we're shooting at red Xs - why can't we move things a bit closer across the board - so your whole screen isn't just a mass of red and green and purple symbols. People should be able to scroll out to get that view if they want it, but we should also be able to play scrolled in!


Amandin Adouin
Posted - 2009.10.14 03:33:00 - [165]

Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 14/10/2009 04:51:49

I think bringing that sense of life to the world will help with immersion and retaining players - give them eye candy and pretty colors Razz.

A few of the above mentioned points by other players are also very valid - the new player feels extremely helpless and it is very demotivating. And there is ALOT of boring grinding of the same missions over and over again for very little reward. More shooting at red Xs. Yay. If something could be done to empower new players faster, perhaps a shorter learning curve (faster), perhaps a well developed "story" that makes them feel like a hero... but also makes them stronger. And the change to newbie skills is awful honestly; now newbies feel even weaker when they start. You could have figured out some better way to balance the races imo, without taking away all the starting skills and "flavor". And yes the learning skills can be very demotivating. Something should be changed with them.

As for killing off the player in a tutorial - I don't know about that honestly. I can see why you'd want that, being a seasoned player. But the beginning is rocky enough for most people starting - that may just be the straw that breaks the camel's back. You're dealing with a lot of gamers coming from other games - games that offer hardmodes where the player won't die ever... people don't like to "die". I understand Eve is different, you're just losing a ship, etc... But they may not understand this. They may just leave.

Overall I think you guys are doing a great job with all the upcoming changes... but the new player experience stinks honestly - and it seems to be getting worse, not better.

When I started, I was about to quit and I saw one person in the newbie corp tell someone else "don't worry it gets better". That made me stay. And ever since, I've told many many others that. But there's a reason why so many people leave this game in the first couple weeks. They somehow need to either be given all that is so great about Eve sooner, or make the new player experience COMPLETELY different - or preferably a combination of those two. And we CAN fix this. I do not believe there is an issue with the fundamental gameplay. I understand my points may seem a bit radical compared to the some of the more minor changes being suggested and implemented- but I strongly believe you will have to think outside of the box regarding some aspects of this game and the new player experience to expand your market share and grow your loyalty base. Yes, we all love Eve as is pretty much - dangerous, intelligent, hardcore... and it doesn't have to lose ANY of that. But we can make some changes, while retaining everything we love about Eve, so that new players will stay and get to see all that IS great about the game. And you'll get more money. Lots and Lots of money. I promise ;)

... I found this video on Scrapheap Challenge. This guy is an idiot. But he had some very valid points about the beginning experience - thoughts that I, and my friends all had when we started... (I remember when I started I couldn't figure out how to move - then I started moving 'somehow' and I couldn't stop. It scared the daylights out of me).

One more thing.. I happen to be a female gamer. I think Ambulation will be great for getting more girls to play. But please try to think of other things that might appeal to this demographic maybe a bit more than males... like ship designs, customization, etc.

Anyway, thank you for reading. Please take some of my suggestions into consideration... Good luck!

Posted - 2009.10.14 20:50:00 - [166]

For new players, agent missions are really the starting point and at the moment they seem to be just a little bland. The actual missions are cool, but bland in the way in which you interact with the agent- you dont feel as if you are an elite pod pilot serving a megacorp, its more like doing errands for your grandma. Try not to to get the wrong impression from me, the actual mission content is good, but the sense of reason is gone after a few missions.

Solution: 1) Animate agent avatars and give them a voice. Voice acting helps invoke emotion! 2) When wis/incarna arrives, this is the perfect opportunity to really work on agent missions, interacting with characters in stations and in space. I'd like to refer to the much loved short; clear skies <>
If missioning was similar to this you would retain many more players- it would provide more rpg elements for hardcore rpgers who might lose interest in the sandbox.

The new starwars mmo is an mmorpg and anyone who wants to role play in sci fi will be there, but why not have them in eve instead?? Some real role playing agent missions with lots of character interaction; through voice and body language, in stations and out.

thanks for taking the time to read this

Cutie Chaser
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2009.10.16 20:22:00 - [167]

Originally by: Cutie Chaser

They need to be further broken down tb, exploration needs to be split out and made its own career path, not rolled into one of the other ones. In it you should cover: General Scanning, Hacking, Archeology, Salvaging, Cosmic Anomolies, Wormholes, RADAR/LADAR/MAG/GRAV sites.

I hear ther eis now an exploration tutorial agent on SiSi, WOOT!

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.10.18 01:17:00 - [168]

So I made a new char recently. 72 hours to get api so i was like meh just train wat im training for up to 1.5mil sp. Then i got api. Plan went from 90 days to 45 days just by training learning skills. DAMN is that ever huge.

Suggestion: Whatever % to make it worth not to train learnings for up to 1.5mil. Lets call it 1,000%. Training learning skills will invalidate this bonus. Also factor in... like "Are yousure you want to train learning skill? It will invalidate your 1000% bonus to skill training. No, No, No, Yes" If they still hit yes. "Are you really really really sure you want to train learning skill? It will invalidate your 1000% bonus to skill training. No, No, No, Yes"

Soon as 1.5mil is reached. Pop up char sheet say they dont have the 1,000% bonus anymore. Instead they can get 100% training bonus up to 2.5mil if they train learning skills.

The other thing... you give rookie ships out that are unfit and dual purposed. Then this happens.

I say boost rookieships nicely like giving 2-3 slots for each rack. Then more or less properly fit it with civie mods. Then give an option instead of insta spawn rookie ship when docking in station. Like a window opens asking if you want a pvp ship or pve miner or nothing.

You can also give the noob-corp corp fiitings put there by ccp. Point newbs there for guidance. Like the first time the new character jumps into a navitas... have the navitas corp fitting come up.

frigs - 6 each race. total 24
cruisers 4 each race total 40
dessies 1 each race total 44
barges 3 total 47 - 1 for coveter total 46
industrials 1 each race and you get 50 total.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.10.18 01:26:00 - [169]

Edited by: Jason Edwards on 18/10/2009 02:03:59
Another suggestion:

Up the alpha clone sp to like 2mil sp. Make clones something they need to even know about until much later in the game.

Also have the learning skills all injected @ 0 for everyone new.


Another thing that can be done. Create aura into like Ms office's coathangar dude. Like "I see you are trying to sell things on the market. Would you like to know more?" Kind of like the welcome pages but actually interactive. Do it as they go. Instead of 1 big tutorial(that attempts to teach everything there is to know) that just reinforces the eve learning curve.

Moreover. You could also do the "New capital experience" Something midgame for new pilots to capships can go do. Maybe even virtually. That way newbs who just fit their dread who never put a siege module on it. Dont need to ask how to siege their dread. Or people asking how they get their capital from system to system. or people asking how they can dock in a carrier.

Also default market range should limit purchases to highsec. Filter out lowsec and 0.0. Ive seen pirates put up small ammo onto the market @ good prices and close to the newb systems. Just to get newbs to goto low sec to pick up the ammo.

Posted - 2009.10.19 01:08:00 - [170]

1) Ditch the learning skills or replace them with something better. Alternatively, have stats directly affect what you do in game, even if the effect is minimal, and easily lost in RNG noise. As long as stats only affect the speed at which you learn skills, there is no need for the learningskills themselves other than being an annoying time (and money) sink, both for new players and alts.

2) The bussiness and industry careerpaths are simply too similar, with the bussiness path being the easier of the two. At the same time, the industry path is basically only about mining and manufacturing.
2.1) Change the Bussiness careerpath into an Intelligence careerpath.
2.1.1) Remove the mining parts from the bussiness career path (now Intelligence careerpath), and instead let the rookie procure some materials through the use of his civilian salvager, analyzer or decoder modules and through using the Market.
2.1.2) Add 1 or 2 exploration missions to the Intelligence Career path, including a trip through a wormhole ending some 5-6 systems away
2.2) Add research and copying to the Industry career path

3) Create a 3-dimensional model of the skill tree. It will help people find an "aim" in their career. Currently, one has to accidentally run into a module, ship or skillbook to find out that it's there, and what the requirements are. A visual skilltree will allow people to draw their paths "bottom up" instead. "I am here, and if I combine it with that, I can go there". It simply feels more progressive and inviting to the player to see where he can go, instead of the "you can't do that yet" feel that the current system gives.

4) Tutorials for the more experienced players. You simply can't put everything into the tuts, especially if it's going to take a month or 3 before the player actually has the skills to do certain things. So some things could be mentioned in the beginner tutorials, but not explained in depth. Such things could be placed into a tutorial that unlocks once the player trains the proper skills to do those things. For example, a player trains the skill to use probes to lvl 1, and receives a mail from Dr X at station Y because he has an important mission, which is actually a small chain of 3-5 tutorial missions explaining the use of probes.

Tylara duChelm
Posted - 2009.10.22 06:09:00 - [171]

As a newbie myself. . .

#1) A better in game explanation of signal radius and speed and how it relates to damage.

#2) A better in game explanation of projectile size and how it relates to damage.

#3) Discussion/explanation of heat and thermodynamics.

#4) A mission where the player has to be part of a bigger fleet. Say a scripted battle with a couple BS on each side, and the player is along as support/tackle. Demonstrate that playing a role is just as useful as raw DPS. Honestly this would be a good whole new line to create, since I could easily see 10 missions demonstrating the various roles that can be played in base frigates. The three above requests could be rolled into this line as well.

#5) The newbie experience shouldn't end with the end of the tutorial. You can blitz through all three tutorials in a day, and still be just as green as when you started, really.

And most important, and what has ruined my fun the most:
#0) An explanation and demonstration of the >>Faction<< standings, and making it clear that running ANY storyline mission incurs a negative faction hit on the enemy factions. Further, when someone finishes the tutorial they shouldn't have too much of a negative standing with anyone. . . it serves to limit the game. If I wanted to join a pirate faction, certain avenues were closed to me after the tutorial, simply due to killing the NPCs there.

And even more important:
#00) A mechanic to repair negative faction standing, and in fact a revamping of the whole faction/corp standing system. As things stand currently you need to meta-game the system to remain neutral if you are an active player. Even relatively innocuous FedMart missions will throw you against Caldari or Amarr on occasion, and as a newbie you generally don't know enough to not take the missions. So if you are new, and simply following what the game tells you to do, you can go KOS to two of the primary factions in under a month. This is EXTREMELY negative "new player experience." (I was close to KOS at the end of my 21 day trial.)

I have a couple suggestions for the above. One would be a slight revamp, where a player-corp could "Declare war" on an empire faction, and do as many missions for the opposing faction's militia or navy as they want. They're KOS for the factions they're at war with, but once they're done with their war, the corporation negotiates a treaty (Possibly involving reperations missions) and the players (And PC corp's) standing is plunked back to -2.0. Naturally there'd have to be a cool-down timer for this sort of war dec, say 30 or 60 days.

Alternately you could make ship kills count against CORPORATE standing, not FACTION. Currently running a level 4 navy mission against Amarr or Caldari can drop my standings with them a whole point. . . but does NOTHING to improve my gallente standing. This is nuts, since I am just repelling an invasion fleet. (No one punishes an AA gunner who is shooting down aircraft bombing his home) So mission kills count against the navy corp faction. Also, certain storyline gains shouldn't hit enemy faction at all. If I'm turning in criminal dogtags to a data-center agent, why should my Amarr faction standing drop? The whole system is biased towards negative standings in a way that FORCES people to play the meta-game, and can screw people that simply follow natural quest lines.

Posted - 2009.10.22 17:41:00 - [172]

First a bit of history: I totally screwed up EVE in the beginning. I did the beginners tutorial, then missed all the others, and promptly got killed in my rookie ship on my very first real Agent mission by one lousy Angel highjacker. I had no idea that training skills were as important as they and consequently didn't even really train any for the first month or so. I got my first t1 frig and basically made money by ratting. I loved cruising up and down the systems and doing some of the newbie plexes, but I didn't know how to salvage or what an AB is. In general I made almost all the mistakes a person can make. The only reason I stayed with Eve is because I loved flying around in the huge universe.

I was terrified of losec because of all the warnings about getting killed. As a consequence it took me ages to gather the courage to actually go there. As a condequence I am a terrible PvPer and am only just learning the ropes now.

The one thing I have learnt now in Eve is to almost always inform yourself as much as possible BEFOREHAND as to what you plan to do.

Many n00bs who expect some hand-holding are left baited, scammed, penniless and killed in their first few days. Eve loses another player and CCP loses another customer.

CCP, IMO, needs to:
1. As others have said, find some way to introduce new players to PvP, be it via a mentoring system (make Eve-Uni official for example) or via a new player only PvP area (only players within their first 14 days can go here and only in rookie ships). Of course, the temptation for older players to abuse this is great as they will still have the better experience, but I'm ways can be found to do this, very similar to the current Red vs. Blue war where only t1 stuff is allowed.
2. Again, players need to learn that dying has consequences, but that it isn't the end of the world.
3. Faction standings and sec status really has to be improved. Like many players my standings with some factions are so low (unintended) that I can never really get them back up.
4. The mechanics of the game need to be explained somewhere or new players need to be taken through a tutorial where they have to read an eve-wiki article to progress, for example.
5. All of the professions need more detail.
6. Rookie players need better protection until they have reached some basic level. Rookies being baited and killed is one of the major reasons new people leave again, IMO.

Posted - 2009.10.22 17:59:00 - [173]

Ok, background first. I've been playing Eve for about 2 weeks, and was and still am involved with a hardcore raiding guild in World of Warcraft, so Eve's complexity was less intimidating for me than for most new players.

Here's a list of things that I feel were poorly explained by the first 3 tutorials.
1) The afterburner skillbook wasn't provided, and it didn't seem to be necessary to complete any of the missions.
2) The use of drones wasn't explained at all.
3) I spent a while on part 2 of Balancing the Books as I didn't understand the function of acceleration gates.
4) The first mining mission that requires you to fully mine out an asteroid confused a lot of people.
5) I declined a mission, assuming I'd be able to come back to it later. I ended up having to petition to restore the tutorial path. Better explanation of this is required.
6) I was left confused about the pros and cons of the various ammo types, for hybrid charges in my case.

Generally there's a lot of duplication in the mining and trading tutorials, so I'd suggest merging these, or creating a mining/exploration tutorial, and an industry and trade tutorial.
The reward of an Industrial for the trading and mining paths is a terrible choice. Its not even usable by trial accounts, it requires a 500k ISK to buy the skillbook, a significant sum for a rookie, and it isn't even any good at mining despite the misleading name. This effectively funnels trials into the combat path. The Eve epic arc also forces players towards combat.

The benefits of Dense and Concentrated Veldspar are far too small, and are also poorly explained. If these were buffed to 50/100% bonus yield it would give an advantage to small scale newbie miners who could seek out the choice deposits, versus the big Hulk users who just mine out entire belts.

For a beginning hauler/trader, courier contracts are very unsafe. There should be a warning if a courier contract paths through low sec space, or involves docking at a POS. Being pointed towards each faction's major trade hub would also be nice.

The aggression timers shouldn't pop up when you are attacked by NPC rats, its just confusing.

The default market UI is TERRIBLE. Making meta level more transparent would make it much easier to sort through the various named modules. And again, without using a 3rd party program(EFT) its easy to buy a bunch of modules/weapons you can't actually fit. The default UI is also rather poor when it comes to finding available level 1 missions. I shouldn't have to tab out to a 3rd party website to do this.

Learning skills should be removed. They punish a player who actually wants to PLAY the game at the start, since they'll have fewer skillpoints in the long run. And they require yet another 3rd party program to use effectively. The same goes for attribute remaps. Remaps also punish players who want to start off as generalists, vs characters who start with a defined focus(IE alts).

There didn't seem to be any info on the race selection screen regarding what types of defence/offence each race specialises in. This is odd since its their only defining characteristic in-game.

Low level implants act as a barrier to low level PvP and low sec exploration. I acquired a full set of +1s fairly quickly, but they still comprise about 20% of my net worth so I can no longer risk getting podded. Earlier access to jump clones, or restricting implants to older characters, would help here.

Finally, I feel the standing penalties from level 1 missions and particularly storyline missions are both poorly explained, and rather restrictive for new players.

Don't get me wrong, theres loads of stuff I do like about the game. The backstory, the level of mechanical detail, the helpful players in rookie chat. But there are many issues I have noticed that are somewhat unwelcoming for rookies.

Markus Reese
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.10.23 06:39:00 - [174]

I have read alot of what was said, and much of it actually is in game. Problem is it is hidden amongst the help stuff as read only files. What is needed is as part of the installation package, a tutorial video set. Something that trees out or however and visually shows players, with game footage, how things work. Interactive tutorial is all fine and dandy, but when learning how to drive, they don't have you pull onto a highway then hand you an instruction book.

Posted - 2009.10.23 08:44:00 - [175]

I’ve been playing over a year and still really enjoy creating new characters and playing through all the starter missions agents.

I think the process has got a lot smoother over the last year, but these are my suggestions.

First thing, all new characters should be encouraged to do ALL the starter agents missions.

Let new players know they can play solo under NPC corp if they want to, or join a corp of their choice after this.

Give them the solo feel first so they can pilot a ship and get the basics. Classic solo play is mining, mission running, production, and research (research is not really mentioned by any of the starter agents).

Then give them a pvp or team play type experience, even just a mission where an NPC character joins them on the mission to help.

Then at the end of the starter missions explain about non-npc corps, pirating(as a profession), sec status, what you are legally allowed to do where, etc...

They will then be fully equipped and ready to make a choice in Eve.

Posted - 2009.10.23 09:23:00 - [176]

Edited by: Bomberlocks on 23/10/2009 09:24:10
Originally by: Isabol Morreax
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 25/06/2009 16:31:53 [snip]If you have any feedback, please make sure to log on and run them, so your feedback is up to date.
Your blog says:
The tutorial has come a long way, from not existing when the game launched (the new player experience consisted mostly of clicking away pop-up error messages), to the well structured and informative introduction we have today. Based on feedback from the playerbase, we are going to make tweaks and changes, to make it even more newbie friendly and interesting. One of the added goals for this expansion is to make sure that a player that completes the tutorial is aware that:

1. Corporations exist.

2. They are awesome.

3. Not joining one as soon as possible is silly.

As a newbie: .... Does not transition well. Of all your goals the above and the designed focus on PVP has reiterated why I leave your game.

Why set your new players up to be ****d in this game? Telling them that Corporations are anything but the viper pit they are is not right! Corporations are set up for one reason and one reason only in this game, to **** the unsuspecting and ill prepared. All of them. This game is a sandbox and should be advertised as such. A game full of people preying upon everyone else in-game. Prepare them to start all over again and again and again. Do not hide the fact the game forces the player to become a willing victim, over and over with dependence on alliances and corporations. There is no alternative but to start over again and again. Read the news, join any corporation other than your own, and you are going to start over - soon.
Stress that.
I'd not have removed all my players if not for the increased focus on PVP. I recently joined a group of PVPers. Was enjoying it, or trying to - had a bit of a hard time doing to others what happened to me. Was getting over it, until one of the members sauntered in bragging about how he had tricked a bunch of newbies into making him a director, and how he took everything from them. Yuk! Yuk! Yuk! snicker. Months of communal work, gone through no fault of their own other than believing they need to be in a corporation. and the game is encouraging this ****. That happened to me my first months in this game. ....

I was extremely lucky in that I didn't get ganked or wardecced in my first month because I was so incredibly frustrated I would almost certainly have quit. It is EXTREMELY disheartening to new players and new player corps when, because of your inexperience, you get a can flipped, baited and killed. It is EXTREMELY stupid the way CCP advertises the game. The "butterfly effect" and the "make zillionmegbillion isk in 1 month" bulllshit are only going to make CCP look even more like a real life version of one of the griefer corps, i.e. lie about how easy Eve is, get some dumb n00b to subscribe to the game, take his cash and his time and then laugh at him as he emoragequits, only to look like an even bigger bunch of dumbasses yourselves when you find the number of subsciptions going down again because the n00bs are getting preyed on so heavily.

My advice: Stop lying to the new players (and the older ones as well, thank you), and just admit from the outset that Eve is brutal and you will get killed, have all your stuff stolen, humiliated etc, by a bunch of fat, white males with no social skills, either in game or in real life, and that it will only stop once you start doing it yourself.

Quagmire Elucidate
Posted - 2009.11.03 01:58:00 - [177]

Newcomers training bonus increased when referred by a freind.
When someone gets a 21 day trial, they should also get a 100% learning bonus for 2.1 Million SP's.
This will encourage more people to join and stay longer since they will have more skills built up during the trial period.
They will have more incentive to play more right from the start.
This will also give them a chance to offer a little more to any corporation looking for new recruits.


Hern Dunor
Posted - 2009.11.04 18:41:00 - [178]

Having just run through the first half of the Caldari Cashflow for Capsuleers series, I have a point I think needs addressing. The Caldari no longer have any option to start with missile skills. Yet, the first ship you offer Caldari newbies is...the Condor, with 2 launcher hardpoints. The next mission offers rocket launchers (but of course no rockets). Could you at least toss in the Missile Launcher Operation skillbook before handing out missile ships and launchers, or change the first frig to a turret boat? A Bantam, if nothing else?

School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.11.06 09:25:00 - [179]

In my trial-account period i made 4 chars ( 1 for each race), decided i liked eve and made my real char.
That char is now almost 2 months old, in a cattlecruiser with skills to easy do lvl2 combat-missions and work hard to complete lvl 3 combat missions Laughing.

This means I have done the tutorial 5 times, completed the follow-up epic arc completely 1 time.

I found 2 careerpaths good for their purpose:
one to learn about combat, the second to learn mining, manufacturing.

The careerpath that made you "learn" salvaging, decoding etc was a failure i.m.o. because it didn't teach anything useful. It certainly didnt strees the financial bonus of salvaging wrecksSad.

I missed a mission in wich you lose your ship. This could be right after you get your first upgrade to the ibis.
Then let us do a mission where you can only take your ibis. Let it get destroyed (warp bubble). That way you could not only explain concepts like "bubbles" but also stress the point of insurance etc.

Instruction on how to form a fleet would be also appreciated. Maybe a mission in the epic arc would be suitable for this. It would however mean that a NPC forms a fleet with you and be a supporting wingman. I don't know how hard that would be to implement.

A final point:
the placement of the text-windows was sometimes a distraction. I lost my first ship to the bomb in the hotel, because i clicked in the textbox and didnt warp away quickly enough Embarassed.

Hope this reaction helps you to make the first days eve experience even better.

Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2009.11.12 13:51:00 - [180]

Bring Back some of the old tutorials that I saw when I started playing right before emperian age.
I particuarly liked the one explaining gate camping and some pvp basics.
I remember it including the advice "immobilize, incapacitate, annihilate." Good stuff.

The new tutorials are just plain awful compared to the old ones. Sure the old ones had really bad names that didn't tell you what they were about, but that's no reason to nuke all that good content and replace it with something even worse.

So bring back the old tutorials where the lady read them to ya. I miss those, more importantly, when I get nublets to train I have nothing at all to refer them to concerning pvp.

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