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Lea Swiftfoot
Callide Vulpis
Posted - 2009.07.31 17:25:00 - [121]

Well, here is my 2 cents. I started eve about 3 months ago. I had just bought the collectors edition from the store and of course, like every noob, I couldn't wait to redeem the items that I got with the game. One of those items is an immediate entry into Factional Warfare. Not knowing any better I activated it. So when I was refered to the Sisters of Eve, I had absolutely no idea that I would be attacked for entering Gallente space. I was destroyed and I was left wondering what I did wrong. Confused I have been watching all the cool videos on youtube, like the new butterfly effect vid, and I am wondering if you wouldn't mind making tutorial videos explaining in greater detail the perils of the Eve universe. Mabey even have a section on your website for these videos. They should underline the basic principles of the game enough that after watching them many beginners won't be scratching their heads wondering what to do next. You should also have videos showing what each race specializes in. For example, create a video that shows what type of guns each race uses then shows the user how to properly use drones. I had no idea when I started that if you warped away while your drone was out of your ship, that you would leave it behind. I did not know how to scoop the drones back to the bay. I made a Caldari character before I settled on Amarr, and there should have been some warning that they slowly stop using guns and become missile boats. There should be a video detailing the strengths and weaknesses of the weapon types. How was I supposed to know that the Amarrian's used ammo that is unlimited. I went and bought about 2000 Frequency Crystals because I didn't know any better. Laughing There should also be a video explaining the different ammo types. I did not know that certain types gave me a range bonus/decrease. There should also be an explanation of the 2 types of guns. I also did not know that a pulse laser did more damage than a beam but had shorter range. You should also have a video about security status and concord, and what there role is in the game. To be honest, if you put out videos like this the learning curve of Eve wont be so substantial, and you may find that more people will play eve because of it. That is my 2 cents.
Thanks for listening.
-Lea Swiftfoot Cool

Posted - 2009.07.31 23:35:00 - [122]

It would be nice if new players had a starting area, similar to WoW or Age of Conan, where they have a chance to learn the game at least somewhat before they get tossed into the gankers and generally shafted and decide the game is crap and leave because they get the impression they can't DO anything.

It is irritating to a new player not being able to mine because all the belts in their starting system are mined out by the excessive number of bots.

IMO the starter systems should not allow any non-trial character in at all.

Markus Reese
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.08.04 04:44:00 - [123]

Rather short on time, so not sure if this was said earlier in the thread.

A proper tutorial video for before you enter the ship that explains about your fit. I have helped numerous new players, and there are two things that none of them ever know, and that is defence, and range when fitting. These two basics are constants, there really is no way around then.

What I propose is a short tutorial vid about your ship. Have it presented like an owners manual video. One part being range of course, so try to have your weapons all share optimal or similar ranges. Works like this. Video shows your ship, and enemy ship. Then give example of why it is better to use modules and ammo to control range, and not gun size. Show wrong way first. SHip long range, short guns cannot hit, ship moves in, long range cannot hit, thereby not doing good damage. Then show similar range fit, and how if ship moves in, to move away, or change ammo. All new players understand importance of uniformity to their offence.

Second, your defence. I always use the metaphor of a leaky bucket. Bucket is your hp. Damage is the leaks. Cap is rate you can put back into the bucket. HP increasers, are bigger buckets. resistances are patches. Then show how how resistances reduce damage you take, so the cap you invest in repair stays longer. HIgh hp will allow you to be hit longer, but when down low, your cap invest will stay for shorter time (of course explaining advantages) then show how if you use one type of tank, the slots of the other type can be used to bolster cap to improve your repair. And that in turn shows how if you use two tanks, you spend lots of cap, trying to keep a leaky bucket filled, thereby doing nothing. This is a much shorter than how I usually do the explaination, but can be done in a much more space style display. As though you were looking at a ship's information display.

The reason I really promote this is that the biggest reason I find people leaving in those I have talked to, and those who think about leaving is the loss. It is true, loss is part of eve, but a new player, just starting doesn't care, losing your ship over and over in tutorial is frustrating. And 99% of the time, it is caused by not understanding the most basic principles of range matching, and basic tanking. Give them the optional new player video tutorial, will dramatically change how new players get on in the world of eve.

XE Visjerei
Posted - 2009.08.05 15:43:00 - [124]

CCP, Here is an easy one:

I have several new players tell me they "don't understand how to get to the location with the ship" on that very first tutorial mission. I know reading the mission spells it out, but with learning so many new things up to that point, I think the information on using the People & Places folder to use the Agent Missions folder gets lost in the shuffle.

Also, in starting the second part of the mission, they do not understand how to use a stargate to head to the neighboring system to complete the second part. Yes, this is very simple, but seems to not sink in after teaching them the other 86 things to remember in the last 10 minutes :)

Perhaps on of those glaringly obvious pointers to help them open the locations when they undock?

This has come up several times with friends that have joined up.

Tribal Core
Posted - 2009.08.07 23:56:00 - [125]

Originally by: Abrazzar
Two things a new player should get tought come to my mind:
1.) That losing a ship isn't all that bad. (Have them popped in a mission with superior enemies and give them a replacement with the start of the next mission)

this. then next mission, podkill them. seriously.

Posted - 2009.08.11 19:08:00 - [126]

wish for newbie areas that can only be accessed with jumpgates that cant be exumers farmed.

wish for high sec space .8+ that targeting equals concord damage gift

wish for some kind of can thief/flip = concord in .8 and above.

wish for insurance for implants

Be nice to newbs they are the future income stream. Need more to help then hinder.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2009.08.14 13:45:00 - [127]

Originally by: Ausser
1) As Abrazzar sayed, the "Fist in the Face" and getting podded would be good, but i'm not sure if it can be done in a usefull and nice way. Teach loosing stuff.

I love the old Aura comments in this regard. "Now, grab your other ship and... you know what, to do". Sad they are gone...

Markus Reese
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.08.16 23:24:00 - [128]

The epic does have the fist in the face part, one of the lvls have two of the rogue drone scrammers, and unless you are running the smaller close range, you will not take em out unless you know to take em out. Heck, they even caught my succubus off guard and popped it when I was goofing in it ^.^

Posted - 2009.08.17 11:48:00 - [129]

Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 17/08/2009 11:55:51
I'm astonished to see so many recommendations that rookies are podkilled, without a balancing suggestion for managing the cost.

Firstly, rookies have a *much* higher chance to be podkilled than experienced players. The rookie's lot is to be less experienced, less knowledgable, to have lower in-game skills, and to be massively outgunned. Gankers won't fight even a shuttle without 5 well-fitted combat ships. Rookies get podkilled because two of their five opponents are rigged for podkilling.

So - EvE's rookies quickly learn that if they PvP they will get podded.

Rookies want to train skills fast. As explained earlier, they already have to face the bizarre "Learning" skills and the corresponding "smart vs fun" choice they present. Implants are similar in a way: they help with training - except ... when you get ganked and podkilled, you lose the implants.

Hmmm - make the gankers happy, or stay in highsec and train faster?

If you want rookies to believe being podkilled is not important, make it unimportant, then slaughter away. As the game is today, this "lesson" would be an outrageous lie. Note that even if JumpClones were more accessible they're not much of a solution - you're still paying a training "tax" related to the relative effective of your "attribute-enhancing" implants.

P.S. - a complement to the previous post:
The "ship-eating" Epic Arc mission is "Burning Down the Hive". I think it's easily the most entertaining mission in the Epic Arc, but there's no warning about the Scramblers. By an unfortunate coincidence (or design?), this mission comes just at the pint when a rookie can afford to pay for a destroyer, but not to lose it. Many players learn the hard way from it not to fly ships they can't afford to lose.
A day or two's mining is far too high a price to pay to learn about Warp Scramblers or to believe the guidance about flying what they can afford.

Markus Reese
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.08.18 07:07:00 - [130]

Hmm, quite true about the price, I went and bought, fitted and rigged myself a new one right when I lost mine, but even with the good money from the epics, many newbs do the newb thing and spend it on the best stuff.

I do have one plausible solution to that mission though, that still teaches the same lesson. Instead, make it a mission where they get webbed, scrammed, etc, by say specially designed ones, not the L4 drones. say a few frigates that they warp in right on top of. just cheap things that makes the player feel like they are going to lose, then an npc appears "spawns" in and kills it when player hits hull and gives a pop up message with the "I won't be around to save you next time" with some info.

Posted - 2009.08.18 08:35:00 - [131]

Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 19/08/2009 08:01:59
That's a nice idea Markus. It would be a really nice way to solve this - panic ("zomg I'm losing my ship") followed by relief ("who was that masked man?"). Unforgettable :)

Some info about the mission in its present form:
* It can be completed in a Destroyer via the "hit and run (warp)" technique if you have a Stabilizer. If not, anyone who didn't get some advice before the mission will get webbed, scrammed, and swarmed.
* It can be kited in a frigate, but drones are quite hard to kite (due to the speed variation). Even if you kow what to do you can get caught.
* It's technically possible, but difficult, to kite it in a destroyer, but the drones are faster than a destroyer + 1 MN AB, so it requires a special fit and a special style of kiting.

So a second path could be offerred too: explain how to kite it, and let people try it out.

Markus Reese
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.08.19 06:16:00 - [132]

Lol, the main reason that one got me so attented is that once caught, you cannot get out unless set specifically to hit fast frigates. Ie my reference with the succubus. It has a tracking bonus, and even then, with my training for gunnery, etc, I couldn't land a single hit. What I hear from new players though is that it happened again and again as they do not know about tracking speeds, webbers, etc. So they die, think they messed up, spend cash on a second ship, and go to die again. It is an excellent location to have that learning message and teach more. For me, I went and did it in a pulse laser destroyer the second time as I knew what was happening. Unless you got light missiles, or the fast tracking close range guns, you will be hosed.

Vogon Roads
Posted - 2009.08.19 14:02:00 - [133]

Room for many improvements/additions to the new player experience, as shown by this thread. However, unless the new player bothers to actually read existing content or any added content, the new player is still clueless. I propose a newbie "final exam". Yep, the new player must take a 50 question multiple choice quiz, and must pass it. If the new player fails, the new player's account is locked. Harsh? What better rite of passage in to Eve?
Questions will cover how to move in space, how to determine weapon optimal/missile range (a new mission added to cover this of course), etc.
Many will feel forcing a quiz will drive away new players, but these are the new players who will leave anyway, out of frustration.

PvP and the new player- I suggest adding an agent who gives
new players the option to accept a mission that through the mechanics of acceleration gates, sends the new player to a deadspace complex to, oh, pick up a diplomat or a space bear or something, but competing with other players to achieve mission completion. Now, this hints of " battleground", but limit the experience to once per player,
mission limited to age of player, and rookie ship type.
Perhaps this type of mission could be tied in to a chain leading to faction warfare?

I know of 3 people who did not subscribe to Eve due to difficulty reading the various menus/mission windows. They felt squinting was not very futuristic. Add more font size choices?

Posted - 2009.08.30 12:07:00 - [134]

I started my EVE trial about 2 months ago, and like probably 75% of the people who upgraded their trial, a friend of mine got me into it. This is because it takes a friend who's been there to tell you that mining and running missions are boring and makes EVE stand out is the player-run economy and PVP, not to mention they have to give you 50m isk to buy learning skills so you don't feel like you're getting left behind. So the mentor program is a great idea. And as someone said there needs to be an incentive for someone to be a mentor. This should be rather easy, as the way to avoid exploitation is simply to make the reward less than their opportunity cost but more than nothing. You want encourage the types of players that like helping people anyways and give them a little token of appreciation.

There is no way to change the learning skills without upsetting the entire EVE community who has already painstakingly trained them. The good thing is the 100% training bonus makes up for this a little bit; it only takes about a day and a half to train all the way to Learning V if you want. Maybe even make the training speed bonus 200%. It's capped at 1.6m SP so they won't really get ahead of anyone, and it will get them into the game quicker.

The fact that they have to wait 30 minutes to train for afterburners should not deter anyone at all, if it does this simply isn't the right game for them. If it gives them an incentive to log off that's fine. That's another one of EVE's strengths: an MMO that doesn't make you constantly be playing it or else you fall behind. You can play it whenever you feel like, just like any other game, and not feel like you are constantly losing ground.

Having recently completed all of the tutorial and career path missions, a lot of the suggestions that are being made have already been implemented. There is a mission where you lose a ship (or at least I did; flew towards something, it blows up and npc's come and kill you) but they told you to insure your ship first (I chose not to) and then you learn your lesson and it's just the cheapest frig.

There needs to be a way to introduce PVP as quickly as possible. Maybe as simply as having "sparring" between two cadets in the rookie corp with the rookie ships or even frigs, with real loses but also very low stakes.

There is nothing about scanning whatsoever in the tutorial however. A lot of the more complex aspects of EVE can be left out as some things just take experience and it can be too daunting if you throw everything at a new player at once, however I feel scanning should be included. EVE is a big, complex game and it is not possible to learn everything about it in a week, or even 3.

Overall the tutorials do a very good job of introducing new players to the basics of EVE, and what they have available to them to try out in terms of careers. I, personally, did every single one of the career agent missions, and the epic arc, and had fun doing all of it. The first mission you do after the epic arc is when you realize that missions are incredibly boring and pointless. After you've been getting 250k+bounties a mission, going to a lvl 1 for 20K that's basically a repeat of what you've been doing just doesn't cut it. Which is fine, I mean some people might enjoy that, as well as mining, but at the beginning it's all fun because it's new.

The biggest improvements I think that could be made are introducing PVP early on, and the bigger beginning training speed bonus. Maybe even give them the first tier of learning skillbooks so that if someone starts out from scratch and doesn't know anybody they don't need a couple million isk right away.

State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.09.01 21:00:00 - [135]

Improve character creation and add more fluff like images!
Especially important is adding pictures for each bloodline, so new players know how each bloodline looks.
Also, some clarification as to what your ancestry does(doesn't do), I had a friend ask me 'what class do you want me to choose?' and I was like "uhm, what?" and apparently he thought the ancestry was some sort of class..

Atata Kaiko
Posted - 2009.09.04 23:04:00 - [136]

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 25/06/2009 16:31:53
<snip>Specifically, we would like feedback on the following:
The current tutorial. Are all the steps relevant? Is anything missing?

Yeah, they're fine.
The current career paths. Are they informative? Are they fun?

The combat ones are okay, but the industry and business ones are pretty dull. But that's the nature of these parts of the game. Mining, trading, manufacturing isn't challenging, engaging or interesting after the first couple of times. It's also too easy to "cheat" - e.g., just buy a couple of Afterburner-I instead of making them.
Last but not least:
What newbie content would you like to see added?

More career paths. In the old missions the pirate you fought would offer you a chance to join them - this should be something players can follow right away. What about military careers, mercenaries, etc. The three basic ones "introduce you" to the game, but not its depth. It would be nice if there were "Level II" career agents who followed from there and gave you more paths to follow.

Posted - 2009.09.09 00:44:00 - [137]

Edited by: Raqs on 09/09/2009 00:44:49
Add Audio to the Tutorials.

I started this game 2.5 months ago and ran through every tutorial. In some cases, I found the tutorial difficult to follow. In (almost) every other game I've played that required a tutorial to grasp, there is audio behind each step.

For example, have the tutorial agent vocalize how to undock your ship, or, when you reach the deadspace with a depleted asteroid field, vocalize how to customize the overview to see that little roid put there for your industry tutorial. (EVERYBODY in rookie help chat asks about that mission, btw). Vocalize the fact that they'll need to equip a mining laser to complete the mission.

Add Audio to the Tutorials.

I know it sounds stupid to you people who have been playing forever, but the UI for this game is intimidating for new folk.

And hey, character creation was awesome! I loved hearing about the races, and although the races don't really mean much as far as stats are concerned, it was wonderful getting to actually hear about them instead of having to read through incredibly small text to descern all that background.

Add Audio to the Tutorials.


Mira Walsh
Posted - 2009.09.09 02:37:00 - [138]

At least include a part in the tutorial where ninja-salvaging is described. Many new players lose their ships and might EMORAGEQUIT after shooting the ninja salvager. But still i stand firm in changing the way salvaging rights is given. CCP should soften the appearance of EVE as a 'harsh, brutal and unforgiving' monster and give it a 'mature, vast and rewarding' image.

Story of A Young Caldari Pilot

Posted - 2009.09.12 10:33:00 - [139]


I have been playing this game now for 4 weeks. The thing i would like to se is a "free for all" frigat, no fleet allowed pvp area. A wh system that was connected with all the hubs, that was 0.0 space. You could only enter it with a frigat, you could only exit same place you came in. And you were uable to form a fleet while in that system. And you could only use a tech 1 frigat. That way there would actualy be a viable pvp option in the game. If all you could use/lose was a frigat, then more ppl would be able to partake and enjoy pvp in this game. And then the outcome of pvp would be skill/setup/experience related, reflecting who the best player is, not who has got the largest amount of corp mates covering there back related.

Besides the lack balanced pvp i think the game is good so far.

Uronksur Suth
Posted - 2009.09.21 01:55:00 - [140]

1. Make sure new players know that Ninja Salvaging is a valid tactic.

2. Have the mining tutorial missions explain more clearly that belts CAN be mined out. As it is, every third question in the Rookie Help channel is something along the lines of "I warped to this belt but there's nothin there...."

Uronksur Suth
Posted - 2009.09.22 02:14:00 - [141]

Explain in a tutorial that Corporation taxes do not apply to every transaction.

T'Nuk Layor
Posted - 2009.09.22 23:48:00 - [142]

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
from blog post

1. Corporations exist.

2. They are awesome.

3. Not joining one as soon as possible is silly.

I read this my first week in game and acted on it. As an actual new player, I can tell you this is complete crap. Please update to say:

1. Corporations exist.

2. Some are awesome.

3. Joining one before you have trained skills and built ships to fight is silly, because our most experienced players have become bored griefers who declare war on any corp that accepts new players.

Twitch Strayhan
Posted - 2009.09.23 15:27:00 - [143]

a few things i had trouble learning or haven't yet learned.

It took a friend teaching me to learn scanning with on-board scanner tactics, or probes.

I haven't done the industry side in a while, but when i started there wasn't much help learning from the tutorial.

Just how dangerous if lo-sec??? Yeah, found that one out the hard way as a noob.

The biggest one!!! Doing some missions will make you lose standings with other parts of the empire. When i lost my ability to fly into 1/4 of the empire i was upset because i had no idea what i was doing.

Additional note. Best game i've ever played...... +1

Posted - 2009.09.23 18:38:00 - [144]

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

What newbie content would you like to see added?

just make new player familiar whit losing stuff Laughing

Posted - 2009.09.23 18:47:00 - [145]

Originally by: T'Nuk Layor

3. Joining one before you have trained skills and built ships to fight is silly, because our most experienced players have become bored griefers who declare war on any corp that accepts new players.

do you got any numbers
i mean number of corp that are recruiting n00bs in empire and how many of them are declared i want to see some %

Herpes Sweatrash
Posted - 2009.09.24 11:16:00 - [146]

I think the main points have been covered...

main problems in rookie channel

lack of asteroids
no idea how to fit ships
mismatching gun and ship (ie lasers on merlin)
no clear idea of what each races ships or combat styles are like

also imo rookies need a good advice to specialize or end up with a very lacking character that won't be capable of any pvp outside of frigate tackling aka the player controlled webifying drone for a very long time (nice to see thermodynamics req drop though).

RalShae Marques
Posted - 2009.09.24 21:57:00 - [147]

Edited by: RalShae Marques on 24/09/2009 22:02:13
I've read about half of the responses so far. And I had a couple ideas.

Thought bubbles/voice queues while on the tutorial mission. As if the tutorial agent has a video camera in your ship and is watching you as you go. He/she then speaks up with thoughts and tips as the turtorial goes along. Make it so when these bubbles pop up, no other input is allowed anywhere else on the screen until the user dismisses the thought bubble.

For example. Your tutorial agent sends you to kill a bad guy in deadspace. You do so. Before you leave the thought bubble window opens up with. "I see there are asteroids here. Take the time to mine them before coming back." With input disabled, the player couldn't accidently warp home before seeing/reading the thought bubble.

This could be handy for the desire for noobs to get killed. Once the player is killed, the bubble pops up with. "I had a hunch this might happen. Don't panic. Loosing your ship isn't the end of the world. Come back to the station, and we'll fix you up with another." Then when the mission is continues. The bubble then says. "I won't be so generous in the future, so make sure you have your clone updated. And have enough ISK to afford a replacement ship."

The first time I lost my ship I thought.. "What just happened?" Followed by.. "Now what do I do?"

Different idea:

Skill bonusing during tutorials. As a skill is demonstrated, skill points are rewarded for that skill.

For example. The tutorial sends the player to deadspace to mine. The player does. As he completes the mission, the tutorial agents rewards a few hundred skill points to the Mining skills.

This would speed training, and reward the player in a way that implies. You demonstrate a skill, you get better at the skill.

Arban Staz
Posted - 2009.09.29 22:07:00 - [148]

How about a mission in which the newbie gets scammed?

Send them on a mission to buy some special item that can't be traded by players - they arrive in system and see it on market for 100,000 isk, but wait... what is this? Someone posting in local that they need a quick sale and just accept this contract for 20,000 and its yours. Oh - didn't you read the fine print on the item description? No, its not quite the same item, sorry bud.

Newbie returns to agent who says "tough kid, but its a harsh universe out there".

Eagle Hawkstrike
Posted - 2009.09.30 03:51:00 - [149]

Starting out as a miner person i found it hard to get into it as newbie areas always had miners in there that could get exhumers and mining barges. It would be good for small sections where newbies start to be mining barge and exhumer free zones, as its hard to find any good minerals in the newbie zones to get the missions done unless you jump on right after downtime. This is the main issue i have with the newbie starting, should this be implemented then a message should also be issued to new players saying "if you wish to continue on mining as your profession aim for mining barges and exhumers but to use them you must be outside the newbie zones".

The change would probably just be as simple as making it so that you can't undock or use the gates in the newbie zones in your mining barges or exhumers.

Posted - 2009.10.01 15:27:00 - [150]

Hello.From what i understand, you at CCP want more players to explore null sec and low sec and populate it.Well, most of us would do that, but you make this very hard for the new player to acomplish.Why? Because reaching these systems and staying them is very hard.

For example, i am in a 4 member corp.We want isk, we want to explore, we want to interact with other corps and alliances and we have courage.So null sec seems like the the best place to be.Unfortunatlly, we are not invited.Why should we invest all our money into ships and pos and items to move in null sec, if there is a 99% chance to encounter a gate camp and loose everything? how does that motivate us to go there in the 1st place? we might not even make it there.Null sec systems are taken over by large alliances that gate camp so nobody can even reach the end of low sec space.In my oppinion its to easy for them to keep soveregnity and too hard for us to get to null sec because of these damn gate camps.By introducing warp disr bubbles you made reaching 0.0 alive very hard.We,the new players, cant ever compete with the strong players out there, thus we cant go to null sec without getting podded.I like the concept of pvp, but i dont shoot everything in sight like 90% of the players in eve wich play this game like a arcade single player game.I like to live and let live.Why should i (a big corp) blow up a lonely miner in 0.0? unfortunatlly they all do that.

Its to easy for them to kill us! you jump, and jump until you reach 0.1 sec space, and there you get scrambled, shot and podded.Its to easy for them to imobilize a player, kill him, and its too hard for us to defend against that.The only way to avoid that is to fit warp core stab. wich have a HUGE drawback.So my question is, how do you expect us to even explore null sec, if we have no chance of ever reaching it or geting killed as soon as we get there? I would like to go, or even move to low sec, but i know its a suicide mission, i will lose my ship and be broke and back in empire, totaly discouraged and probably never wanting to go explore null sec again.So please think this trough, and figure out a way to enable less wealthy players to benefit and make a living in low sec 0.0.We dont go there as we are too affraid to loose everything we worked so hard for in empire.Null sec should be a pleasant, dangerous but fun experience to all players, but so far, its dangerous, period.So if you want more players in null sec, try to make our lifes easyer.You give more and more power to greedy alliances and player, enabling them to destroy and "traumatize" a player in such a way that he wont leave 0.5 any time soon.This might sound stupid to some people, but this is why me, my corp, or my friends, dont even consider exploring a 0.0 system, not to mention moving there.Right now i cant even kill a rat or mine veldespar safely without getting killed by some ivisible jackass who thinks killing a destroyer with a navy raven is cool.

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