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Moronihah Molda
Posted - 2009.07.02 15:20:00 - [31]
 

As a relative n00b, I'd like to share my experience as it may prove helpful.

    [*]The tutorial missions were great! They give a fairly simplistic approach to what a person could do in EVE.

    [*]The epic arc at times is a bit confusing when going from agent to agent. Maybe some kind of sticky in the journal or people and places that would help someone remember whom they need to talk/visit next would be helpful.

    [*]A VERY BIG reminder that taking any missions, epic or level 1 missions into a low sec areas (below 0.5) means the potential for a pirate(s) or other player(s) to interfere with your mission (Even though you are under the impression that you will only be dealing with PVE's only after reaching the mission area). My own personal example of this was I was under the impression that using an acceleration gate to go to a specific area provided a level of protection from PVP. In my case this proved to be fatal as I lost my ship and a LOT of stuff I has just salvage when I was jumped by seven pirates in the mission area.

    In talking with several other players after the event, there wasn't a single one that realized that PVP could interfere with a PVE type mission.

    [*] I think a tutorial on PVP situations would be good. For example, how to escape in your pod after losing a ship....or maybe a "Pod cannot be killed" for a n00b.

    [*] Some response in low sec (0.4 to 0.1) from Concord. It seems to me that after leaving 0.5 space there is NO response. I would rather see a gradual decrease in response so that by the time you are in 0.0 there is no response.


Thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts.



Fridge Chesthair
Posted - 2009.07.02 16:58:00 - [32]
 

Some more ideas.

1 - Stress the importance of maintaining a proper clone. Stress the method used to update a clone.

This could even include a revamp of the character sheet to emphasize clones and signal that a character does not have an updated clone. A big red ! in the character picture might help.

2 - Stress the ability of players to turn down missions from agents without penalty. Many new players I know have run missions in low sec because they did not know they could turn down the mission.

3 - Stress the danger of running missions in low sec. Agents in systems adjacent to low sec systems have a high chance of giving missions that require travel to low sec.

4 - Does the new user experience cover cosmic anomalies, cosmic signatures, and other forms of PvE besides missions?

Pesets
The Hunt Club
Posted - 2009.07.03 04:25:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Pesets on 03/07/2009 04:26:28
As i already suggested in this thread, explain the mechanics of aggression timers, sec hits and their effect on where you can go and what you can do.

Another thing i would suggest, make the NPC corp you start in depend on the Ancestry you choose (and perhaps inform the player about it). Right now, Ancestry has no real meaning, and creating a pvp char that starts in some Poksu Mineral Group might be somewhat embarrassing.

I disagree with suggestion about the tutorial that blows you up. This will just make the player less likely to trust tutorials in the future. There is already a mission in the Epic Arc that does pretty much that; and to be honest, most new players tend to find their own ways of losing ships way before they bother with the tutorials.

Also, as i suggested in yet another thread, making killmails/lossmails non-permanent might make pvp less of a turnoff for newer players. Of course obscene numbers of griefers would probably ragequit after losing such a delicious source of carebear tears. Though that would actually improve NPE even more Razz

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2009.07.04 20:38:00 - [34]
 

in game picture in picture video tutorials please.

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.07.05 04:36:00 - [35]
 

They teach mining, trading fighting all pretty well, But exploring is horrible ie analyzing/hacking it has a rough tutorial but doesnt show how to find the plex containers on overview and never has a good probe tutorial anywhere.

Probing is very important in the game for explorers and I had to go to youtube to learn how. Also I think Analyzing containers need to be marked better etc.

Also you need to teach more about not getting in big ships to fast, most newbs cry about losing ships because they are losing cruisers and BC`s and even BS`s when the yare 14 days old and it wipesout all 2 weeks of payday if they los tfrigs it would be ok.

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2009.07.05 12:24:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

The current tutorial. Are all the steps relevant? Is anything missing?



Making Mountains of Molehills feels fine to me, although you may want to add a little piece of information concerning the fact you don't NEED a Villard Wheel or w/e it was called, I remember searching for it before finding out I didn't need one.

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

The current career paths. Are they informative? Are they fun?



Mining needs more user input (honestly, it's in need of a major overhaul), and another thing, it would be nice if Industry missions (Manufacturing, Production, Mining, Astrogeology) gave rewards OTHER than ISK.

Give a BPC of a random module for so many runs and a few levels of ME and PE.
Or give them a BPC of a named item (not COSMOS).
I kinda liked the COSMOS missions for not giving ISK, but an item (blueprint) as a reward.

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

What newbie content would you like to see added?



Give a him mission like Recon 1/3.
Make sure it clearly states you only need to fly somewhere and you're done.
See if the new player bothers to read the objectives or not.

Feijoa
Posted - 2009.07.07 22:10:00 - [37]
 

I like the idea of a player mentor. I'm fairly new, and enjoyed the starter tutorial and missions. What I'd really love to see changed is the game font! I know you can increase the size, but the font is not the most readable one! Shocked

Peace!

Vaneshi SnowCrash
Posted - 2009.07.08 19:55:00 - [38]
 

The tutorials need to be altered slightly to accomodate previous changes to the game, I covered a lot of it in making mischeif but I'll dump it here as well.

1. The player is given a racial hauler in one of the career agent missions. An actual, totally new, player can't train the skill to fly it.

2. The NPE needs to cover player - player interactions in high sec. Things like can flipping and ninja salvaging. It needs to cover this as a mission not just Aura text spam.

Daedalus II
Helios Research
Posted - 2009.07.10 12:47:00 - [39]
 

I think the market should be better explained, it's after all an essential part of the game and it contains a lot of information and power if used the right way.

I mean it's not even mentioned that you can, and should, sort orders so you don't buy stuff too expensive.

There are also the trends and graphs you can show on each item, who really understand what those mean if you don't have a degree in economics? I mean, donchian channel, what is that? I had to go to wikipedia to figure out what that means.

There are also search functions and filters, but I have a feeling very few new players know what they do.

And while we're at it, why not explain the settings of the CSPA charge and such that is expertly hidden in one of the mail tabs (why it doesn't have a tab of it's own is beyond me).

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.07.14 15:35:00 - [40]
 

I've run through the new missions and without Villard Wheels they seem more logical, but this has left the Balancing The Books arc a little empty. IIRC the ships that's awarded during this arc is the racial scanning ship, so maybe there's room for some introduction to exploration using special 'civillian scanners'.

There needs to be more racial variation in the missions. I'm pretty sure all the races get given Civillian Shield Boosters, that should be switched to that the Gallente and Amarrians get Civilian Armour Repairers. And the caldari rookie ship should be given a missile hardpoint. Civilliand combat drones could also be added to the game to give everyone some experience with drones.

(I also *really* like the idea of killing and podding a player early on in their noob ship so that they get less stressed about the dangers of the universe)


LittleBig Elmo
Posted - 2009.07.14 18:31:00 - [41]
 

A bit of a unique different sugestion and unsure where to post it so here will do...
Not sure if anyone else is in the same boat but I cant help but find the sound efffect for the ACTIVE SHIELD HARDNERS nothing more than an irritating drone.

I enjoy playing EVE with my iTunes running in the background and the sounds of the space battles mixing in with my Metallica, but whenervaer I activate the Invulnerability field (Or similar module) the constant drone forces me to lower the EVE volume entirely.

I think a good little option in the Audio sector would be to allow to mute or lower the volume of certain modules that frustrate the playing experience.

It is annoying enough that I have now removed my shield hardener for a less effective shield extender.
Funny thing is when I ask others about this I am usually replied with... "EVE has sound?" Just a thought... Thanks

Ariane VoxDei
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:00:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Vaneshi SnowCrash
1. The player is given a racial hauler in one of the career agent missions. An actual, totally new, player can't train the skill to fly it.

We had this issue up again in Eve Uni public chat a few nights ago.
It gives people on trial accounts a really bad impression of being poorly thought through. So from time to time we have to tell the various explanations/excuses exactly why trials are not allowed to train industrials.

Would be better to give them a hauling frig, like the kestrel, and a few expanders (and the hull upgrades book to cover it).
It is not optimal, but at least it gives them some sort of cargo capacity without giving them a indy.

Fryrr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:03:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Feijoa
I like the idea of a player mentor. I'm fairly new, and enjoyed the starter tutorial and missions. What I'd really love to see changed is the game font! I know you can increase the size, but the font is not the most readable one! Shocked



This has been mentioned more than a few times, hopefully it's on the list somewhere although not necessarily in relation to the NPE

Also CCP Soundwave do you still own a hulk? (this is important)

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:05:00 - [44]
 

Quote:
Essentially, this line will feature everything from learning to warp scramble, to getting your newbie ship horribly blown up (ok so I lied, you will spend a little time on fire).


This has been missing from the new player experience for a LONG time. I would encourage CCP to introduce players to the concept of what happens when they lose a ship and how to recover from it. Specifically, teach them the first unwritten rule of EVE Online - never undock in a ship that you can not afford to lose.

Syberbolt8
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:15:00 - [45]
 

Quote:
Essentially, this line will feature everything from learning to warp scramble, to getting your newbie ship horribly blown up (ok so I lied, you will spend a little time on fire).



I think they should explode no less then 5 times in the first 24 hrs, and each time it should tell them, that this is part of the game, time to get used to it now instead of later, and tell them, dont fly what you cant afford to lose.

Sobon
Caldari
Phantom Squad
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:22:00 - [46]
 

I support the changes leading to more newbie ship deaths, while they are young and fly cheap enough ships to replace with few tears, rather then getting headstrong with their new cruiser(Or destroyer or what have you) that they barely sc****d the cash up for, and charging into lowsec to die a horrible and humiliating death.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:24:00 - [47]
 

The tutorials are meant to be meaningful ways of experiencing death, while at the same time experiencing a loss that the player feels without being discouraged by it. When you die in EVE, you lose your ships, for most people, that is hopefully not an experience that makes them quit. It is though, an experience people need to be familiar with.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:25:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Sobon
I support the changes leading to more newbie ship deaths, while they are young and fly cheap enough ships to replace with few tears, rather then getting headstrong with their new cruiser(Or destroyer or what have you) that they barely sc****d the cash up for, and charging into lowsec to die a horrible and humiliating death.


Yea, exactly.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:26:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Fryrr
Originally by: Feijoa
I like the idea of a player mentor. I'm fairly new, and enjoyed the starter tutorial and missions. What I'd really love to see changed is the game font! I know you can increase the size, but the font is not the most readable one! Shocked



This has been mentioned more than a few times, hopefully it's on the list somewhere although not necessarily in relation to the NPE

Also CCP Soundwave do you still own a hulk? (this is important)


Of course, several in fact, as all real men should.

Trabber Shir
Caldari
5I Incorporated
Posted - 2009.07.15 22:40:00 - [50]
 

Last time I checked out the tutorials, the overview was not covered anywhere near well enough. There should be a mission with a lot of random junk where you have to find something that is not shown on the default overview settings and an explanation of how to use the overview to find it by setting up filters.

Tiny Carlos
Posted - 2009.07.15 23:26:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Tiny Carlos on 15/07/2009 23:27:13
Quote:
it is NOT cool to be faced with so many "fun vs smart" options (ex. training Learning Skills vs more fun things)


This is big.

I can't think of a way to solve it, learning skills were a mistake from the start. It really hurts new players experiance when they realise that, if they want to be competaive long term, the best thing is to train up skills that help you train up skills for the first week or two.

Downtym
Amarr
Ajo Heavy Industries
Posted - 2009.07.15 23:29:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 25/06/2009 16:31:53

Last but not least:


What newbie content would you like to see added?



1. PvP:

A. Aggression mechanic: What causes you to get flagged, what happens when you get flagged, timers, jumping restrictions, and docking restrictions. Call it "Concord, Thieving, Lowsec, and You".

I've personally spent at least 10 hours play time explaining these mechanics to other players. While I do so enjoy my little seminars and the time with the newbies, their level of ignorance of the aggression mechanics is frightening.

B. Lowsec: A more thorough explanation and demonstration of low sec would be nice. An explanation of NPC stations, pirate missions, and the pirate factions would be a big boon. Quick fun thing to do: Open a convo to a (new) player and ask the following, "True or False: There are NPC stations in Lowsec that belong to the NPC 'pirate' factions. True or False: These stations have agents that will give you missions. True or False: You can gain faction with the pirate NPC's. True or False: If you gain enough faction the NPC pirates stop shooting at you and become friendly. True or False: If your faction with the NPC pirate corporations drops low enough you will not be able to dock at their stations. True or False: NPC pirate corporation stations obey the exact same mechanics as their high security counterparts."

C. Illustration of primary combat mechanics

The tutorial needs some way to demonstrate the following concepts:

Missile Explosion Speed versus Target Speed
Missile Explosion Radius versus Target Signature
Missile Flight Time versus Target Distance

Turret Signature versus Target Signature
Turret Tracking Speed versus Target Angular Velocity (Stop saying it's Transverse, it's not. It's relative Angular Velocity.)
Turret Optimal and Falloff versus Target Distance

ECM Strength versus Sensor Strength

Drones: How to use them and why they're the best weapons in the game.

Tanking: Active versus Passive. Resistance versus HP. Scripted illustrations would be nice.

D. Faction warfare

Besides buffing Faction warfare there needs to be a tutorial that does a significantly better job of explaining Faction warfare.

E. Probing and using the directional scanner

This is another one I've spent hours going over with people.

F. Safe spots and bookmarking

G. On Grid/Off Grid mechanics

Covering mobile warp disruptors would probably save a lot of people from the eventual hair pulling when they're trying to figure these fiddly things out.

H. Locator agents

You'd be surprised how many people I've met with year+ old 'toons and I have to educate them as to the EXISTENCE of Agents that can Locate. It's the best kept secret in EvE and is only a secret because the game doesn't tell you about them anywhere.

2. Corporation Standing versus Faction Standing versus Concord Security Standing

This needs a better explanation of the repercussions of increasing or decreasing one or the other. Examples would be great. Maybe take the player on a scripted "This is what happens when you increase/decrease your standings."

3. Isolate newbies during training

Seriously. Stuff all the training newbs into a special wormhole that you programatically control. Too many people take particular pleasure in messing with newbies to make the tutorial viable for 99% of the population. Newbies should be insulated for the purposes of the tutorial. Obviously, warn them before they leave the Newb Farm that they're entering a universe populated by complete and total jerks.

4. Exploration, wormholes, Escalation sites, etc.

All the exploration stuff needs help.

5. Capital Ships, Cyno fields, Jump Bridges

Seriously. There needs to be an illustrative tutorial on Capital Ships.

6. POS's

See number 5.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2009.07.16 00:08:00 - [53]
 

TAX

NPC

CORPS

That is all.

Doc Ara
Posted - 2009.07.16 00:21:00 - [54]
 

I'm 100% new to EVE, and have just "finished" the training missions this last week or so. I'm probably going to be showing some ignorance here, but then again my view will probably be similar to anyone else who is totally new. If I'm making some obvious mistake, then it's probably something that needed to be explained a bit better Very Happy

1) Mission timers/rejection. I realize that timed missions/loosing delayed missions is part of EVE but having the first three missions arcs stop if you delay too long seems detrimental. I only managed to finish one of the three because the agents for the other two stopped talking to me after I went away for a week of holiday. I realize that it says you will be penalized if you reject/delay, but it seems that you should have a bit more leeway with the first three agents. I didn't even realize I had delayed the missions in the first place, much less how I'm meant to manage missions now while playing casually. I also don't quite understand how to win them back now that they won't talk to me. This could definitely be explained/managed better early on.

2) Now this may be a side-effect of not finishing two of the training missions, but it was also really unclear to me what to do next if you wanted to keep running missions. I eventually figured out that I could filter the map to show me available agents, but it was by no means obvious. In general I think a bit more explanation of the mechanics behind agents would be really useful.

3) As others have mentioned exploration and an introduction to PvP seems lacking to begin with. I'm still not quite certain how to do either.

I hope that helps a little coming from a total newbies perspective.

Captain Booyah
Dawn Vigil
Posted - 2009.07.16 00:39:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Captain Booyah on 16/07/2009 00:41:11
The main issue I have with the current NPE is that it gives you reasons *not* to play.

For example, you get given a skillbook and a module. That's great, but it'll be 30 minutes before you can train the skill to attach the module. In the long term 30 minutes of skill training is irrelevant, but to the player who was excited about getting an afterburner, it tells you, "Log off".

You can lose people right there.

I'd propose giving people the first level of skills instantly so they can at least attach the module without interruption.

This character was created for a friend of mine who tried the NPE and didn't subscribe. I decided I would do the training skills grind for him, so that he can experience a new player experience in EVE without being told by the game that he needed to come back later.

Also, the tiny font size upset him.

EDIT: I will also echo the comment that the offer expiry on the career/tutorial agents needs to be dropped. I had to file a petition to finish the career agent chain on this character.

Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.07.16 01:03:00 - [56]
 

Three things.

1. Losing your pod is no worse than losing your ship. (especially if you have no implants)

Having a mission where you get podded, and then taught about upgrading your clone could possibly achieve this...


2. Only fly what you can afford to lose

3. You can own -- and it is a good idea to own -- more than one of the same ship type.

Rather than giving them the ship, give them the isk to buy one, use a mission to check for it, and reward them with a second one.
Next mission: they lose the ship. When they get back, they are told " That's why I told you, you should get another one. Always make sure you have a spare ship, or isk to buy one. Unless, you like flying the <newbie faction ship name> "

TROI McCloude
Posted - 2009.07.16 01:29:00 - [57]
 

i think new players should stat in their own cluster of systems where they can make gangs mine simple ore and learn the basics of eve. the new players are then fixed on having to complete a basic training mission arc (with one or two missions that require help from other new players. after completing say a 15 part arc they get the "keys" to a wormhole that drops them in a random empire region to start their eve career..

the tutorial "constellations" are very limited and the market is also limited.

this way:

*protects new to eve players from scamms and unprovoked pvp
*teaches the basics of eve without information overload
*keeps trial accounts seperate from main universe
*cuts down on scammers and isk spammers on trial accounts (these should be banned anyway)

Kelarik
Posted - 2009.07.16 01:59:00 - [58]
 

I tried starting EVE some time before the NPE came in and found it rather daunting, and left. Came back shortly after Apoc was released, and found the NPE very informative and helped set me on the right path, however, like everything, it can be improved.

What I'd like to see is an optional advanced tutorial on some of the finer points of the game that are briefly mentioned in the basic tutorials, such as progressing to higher level missions, faction-specific ship fitting overviews, and some tips as to what skills benefit what roles (an explanatory word about the Certificates would suffice as they do a rather good job of guiding skills for different roles).

I will say though, as harsh as it may sound, that the difficulty in starting the game is a rather nice way of keeping the community intact, if you make it too easy to get to grips with the game there's always a risk you'll open the floodgates for the overly-vocal minority of bad players. Just look at what happened to WoW.

Anyway, I digress. The only other thing I could say is lock neural remaps from characters for the first 2 million SP or so, unless they specifically choose to disable the lock... I know I regret messing around with mine in the early game.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.07.16 02:36:00 - [59]
 

Quote:
The last change we are looking to add is a special mission line for players who have done one or more career paths. This mission line should ultimately point you towards faction warfare, rewarding the player with enough standing to join a militia upon completion


haveing enough faction standing to join Min millitia in Faction warfare, even without actualy being in the faction millitia seems to lock you out of doing the Amarr arcs of the newbi epic if you try. This has been reported so hopefully you will be able to tweek this.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.07.16 02:37:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The tutorials are meant to be meaningful ways of experiencing death, while at the same time experiencing a loss that the player feels without being discouraged by it. When you die in EVE, you lose your ships, for most people, that is hopefully not an experience that makes them quit. It is though, an experience people need to be familiar with.

. . . um I never lost a ship in the tutorial arcs. in fact unless you get hung up in the terain at the one jumpgate one you dont even risk getting down to armor that I can recall.


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