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Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.23 11:36:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Ryoji Tanakama on 23/06/2009 11:47:00
Edited by: Ryoji Tanakama on 23/06/2009 11:41:02
I'm sure I'm flogging a years dead ressurected and re-killed horse of the zombie apocalypse but...

Why can't we have a high-cargohold ship with a reasonable tank and 6 or 8 high slots, no turret or missile points but a bonus to tractor range and salvager speed? If it's t2 based off racial industrial and has ~1000 basic cargohold then there's a reasonable training requirement, cost and potential loss involved.

Personally I think it's well overdue, and I'm sure it's been discussed.

I was thinking:

racial industrial skill +5% resists per level (or +7.5% boost ammount) and +5% max velocity per level
salvage barge skill +5000m tractor range per level and -5% salvager cycle time per level.

This helps it survive under fire and brings it's tractor bonuses in-line with a marauder at level 4, requiring an investment of time to surpass a marauder in this respect. It's major advantage would be it's salvage efficiency and available cargohold. With a base speed around 80-100m/s you'd be expecting approximately 300ms with an afterburner slotted which i think is reasonable.

1000 base cargo for caldari/minmatar shield tanking ships w/ 2 or 3 lows and 4/5 mids
800 base cargo for gallente with 4/5 lows and 1/2 mids
either 6 or 8 high slots
Cruiser-like HP levels

Armour tankers have a potential cargo advantage based on their low slots, but would sacrifice tank. Shield tankers would have an easier time dedicating low slots to cargo expanders but have to consider their afterburners more carefully.

It shouldn't be able to compete with industrials for sheer volume, but should happily handle the loot from a level 4 and similarly be able to cope with exploration/wormhole content. With 8 high slots it would have the option of fitting a scanner/cloak for wormholing while retaining a superior tractor/salvager loadout.

A second variant could be created with fewer high slots but hacking/archaeology bonuses.

Flame away :D

**Edit for typing failure

Flapkonijn
Diamonds and Guns
Posted - 2009.06.23 11:39:00 - [2]
 

Uhm arn't their kindish already salvage ships?

Small fast en good salvaging = Destroyer
Lazy long range good Salvaging = Marauder

Or am i missing the point?

Flap

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.06.23 11:42:00 - [3]
 

Destroyer, Marauder, and Orca baby!

Tractor bonus, and tons of cargo space!

Laughing

Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.23 11:43:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Flapkonijn
Uhm arn't their kindish already salvage ships?

Small fast en good salvaging = Destroyer
Lazy long range good Salvaging = Marauder

Or am i missing the point?

Flap


You are missing the point. Destroyers are not ideal, they are made of paper and have limited cargo, though they do the job pretty well they can't do it easily under fire. A marauder is also limited by cargo (unless it's a paladin) and can't fit the same amount of salvagers or tractor beams. What I'd like is a specialised high-training requirement ship that takes the best of both of those options for those willing to invest the time, with more efficiency and practicality for high danger situations.

Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.23 11:45:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Destroyer, Marauder, and Orca baby!

Tractor bonus, and tons of cargo space!

Laughing


It's not always practical to drop your orca through a wormhole, or even possible to take it through an accelleration gate.

it also has 3 high slots, so is not efficient in the slightest.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.06.23 11:48:00 - [6]
 

Gee... I'm sorry.

I didn't realize you were looking for a "one stop shop".

A single ship that would be capable of doing everything you could possibly dream of doing with a ship, all at the same time.

Cus we have so many of those in the game already...

How about... getting a few friends in Destroyers, and an Indy to haul it all for you? This is an MMO after all. Very Happy

Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.23 11:51:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Gee... I'm sorry.

I didn't realize you were looking for a "one stop shop".

A single ship that would be capable of doing everything you could possibly dream of doing with a ship, all at the same time.

Cus we have so many of those in the game already...

How about... getting a few friends in Destroyers, and an Indy to haul it all for you? This is an MMO after all. Very Happy


Yeah... I mean... heaven forbid I could buy a single ship for a single job... not like I can buy a ship that shoots lasers AND tanks...

Heck, I have one that can fly in a straight line and round corners. Clearly too powerful and needs a nerf.

Lame argument is lame to be honest.

Yes I want a single ship that can fulfil the salvaging needs of a gang. It really isn't too much to ask.

Flapkonijn
Diamonds and Guns
Posted - 2009.06.23 11:54:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Gee... I'm sorry.

I didn't realize you were looking for a "one stop shop".

A single ship that would be capable of doing everything you could possibly dream of doing with a ship, all at the same time.

Cus we have so many of those in the game already...

How about... getting a few friends in Destroyers, and an Indy to haul it all for you? This is an MMO after all. Very Happy


^^^This^^^

And you have never flown marauders have you?
1000k+ Cargo is not enough for salvaging???
salavage is 0.01m3 in size (or aroundabout that).
Unless your slavaging a fleet of titans i think you'll be ok :-P
And no i don't think there should be a OMGWTFPWN ship with 20K cargo 100km tracking range 80% bonus to salvage rate Laughing

Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.23 11:58:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Ryoji Tanakama on 23/06/2009 11:58:36
Originally by: Flapkonijn
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Gee... I'm sorry.

I didn't realize you were looking for a "one stop shop".

A single ship that would be capable of doing everything you could possibly dream of doing with a ship, all at the same time.

Cus we have so many of those in the game already...

How about... getting a few friends in Destroyers, and an Indy to haul it all for you? This is an MMO after all. Very Happy



^^^This^^^

And you have never flown marauders have you?
1000k+ Cargo is not enough for salvaging???
salavage is 0.01m3 in size (or aroundabout that).
Unless your slavaging a fleet of titans i think you'll be ok :-P
And no i don't think there should be a OMGWTFPWN ship with 20K cargo 100km tracking range 80% bonus to salvage rate Laughing



Actually I've flown a golem on-and-off since they arrived.

Also if you'd bothered to read your answer would be less infantile :)

Flapkonijn
Diamonds and Guns
Posted - 2009.06.23 12:12:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Flapkonijn on 23/06/2009 12:13:50
LOL i won't turn this into a mud flinging contest Cool
The reason i gave a infantile answer is because i agree with Ryoji.
It's Multiplayer game... And yes your right i can fit a tank and DPS on a ship but both would be medium.
in a pvp siuation you'd fit for EITHER extreme tank or extreme DPS you do both you lose 90% of the time. (Unless with a fleet then you fit towards each other to make a combined tank dps RR EW or whatever group...again multiplayer wins)
So bottom line is Destroyer is great with a friend... Same for marauder...

So Find a friend and have fun salvaging. :-)

/not signed

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.06.23 19:00:00 - [11]
 

What's needed isn't actually a salvaging ship. Any ship can salvage well, since salvage takes up so little cargo space.

What's needed is a looting ship. This has consistently been the core of all proposals I have seen on here, including those I have made myself. Nobody wants a ship that's better at salvaging. What we want - most of us anyway - is a ship that is better at looting, without being as ridiculously expensive in terms of ISK and skills as the Marauder is.

(I actually own a Golem, fitted for looting and salvaving, but I'm thinking of all the new players for whom Marauders are inaccessible.)

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.06.23 19:03:00 - [12]
 

Except the salvaging ship you proposed would only be useful in salvaging wrecks that were destroyed by you/your fleet. I'd go for it as long as you allow anyone to tractor wrecks.

Creiger Rykov
Posted - 2009.06.23 19:27:00 - [13]
 

I use an Exequror (or however the heck ya spell that). At Gal Cruiser 4 and fitted with Cargo Expander 2s (and non-rigged) I have about 1740m3 of cargo space. Usually one trip clears a lvl 4. At most two.

KaiserSoze434
Posted - 2009.06.23 22:11:00 - [14]
 

I love the idea of a salvager ship. Possibly with bonuses to salvage. Or here a wild idea, a tractor mod that pulls everything tractor-able within a certain reasonable radius. Give it an insane cpu or pwr grid cost but -99% when fitted to "salvage barges" or whatever.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.06.24 17:26:00 - [15]
 

I would support a specialized salvager that is based off a retriever hull and has
* 6 high slots
* 100% tractor beam range bonus
* 1000% bonus to quantity of scrap metal salvaged from wrecks. (Guaranteed 1 unit per wreck)
* Cycle time on salvager modules cut in half

That last one is to help increase the supply of trit on the market and stop veldspar being the most valuable ore anywhere outside of deep 0.0.

It'll still be as slow as a retriever, which means it'll not be the machine of choice for ninja salvagers who may have to travel between gates and fly from wreck to wreck.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.06.24 20:30:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Gee... I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were looking for a "one stop shop". A single ship that would be capable of doing everything you could possibly dream of doing with a ship, all at the same time. Cus we have so many of those in the game already... How about... getting a few friends in Destroyers, and an Indy to haul it all for you? This is an MMO after all. Very Happy


(quoted post condensed from its bizarre, poem-esque one sentence-fragment per line form)

My problem is that shoehorning a destroyer, which is supposed to be an anti-frigate combat platform into a salvaging role just because of its many high-slots bugs me. Why should there not be a ship specialized for salvage? The best low-end ship for salvaging shouldn't be a combat ship. Hell, I wouldn't expect it to be much if any more effective than a current salvage-fitted destroyer. Using a destroyer as a salvage-ship is a silly as using a US Navy destroyer as a salvage-ship or a AEGIS cruiser as a fishing ship or a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier as a cruise ship.

I'd like to see more "civilian" and "race-neutral" ships anyway. Why are almost all ships designed by the factional governments? Why don't NPC corps design ships? There are T2 ships supposedly designed by corps, but they're designed by corps only in their descriptions--in reality, they're "invented" by capsuleers and are based on the same racial hulls as T1 ships.

Basically, I'd like to see more non-combat ships similar to ORE ships (but designed by a corporation other than ORE), including salvage ships, science vessels, etc. This makes more sense from a role-playing perspective, if nothing else. It's silly for almost all ships used to be government/military designs. With the huge variety of NPC corps out there, only ORE designs its own ships from scratch?


 

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