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blankseplocked So I tried some spontaneous PVP last night...
 
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.06.18 08:47:00 - [1]
 

Shock and awe. By nature I tend to camp hi-sec piloting an Orca, I barely play the game.

So, Last night I thought "Hey I'm going to try this PEEVEEPEE thing everyones going on about. It'll make me HARDCORE."

Now I kinda know the basics of PVP in that I have killed a few things, but I didn't really have an idea about fit so I checked out BattleClinic for some guides. The first ship I decided to go ballin' in was a vanilla PVP HAM Drake - Passive style.

"No risk, no reward" I thought, citing the famous adage of many. So I T2 fitted and rigged this drake - nothing special. Figured it would last a little while if I get jumped.

Being an ass - and also ****y, I recieve a bit of Intel that Tama wasn't camped that night. Slightly shocked at this - I decide to grab some Terror AM's and barrel into Tama.

Annnnd it pretty much ended there, as soon as I hit the otherside of that gate I was royally ****ed. A wonderful PPPPPPPPPVP situation greeted me, ie.. 9v1.

I lasted longer than I honestly expected, probably 10 seconds. All I remember is getting locked down harder than Fort Knox, taking huge alpha from an Abaddon - and inevitably watching my ship fall apart under me.

I got podded, but i was flying Sans Implants, So i don't care about that.

So I lose a drake but admittedly due to bad intel. I chat to one of the guys and he admitted "we're shooting anything that ain't blue" and made it apparent that the level of paranoia within his corp was high enough to consider me a Spy. A spy who has history in SAK, A 5 player corp, and now a 3 player corp of my own creation.

My wallet is looking pretty brisk now, but I wasn't going to take this sitting down. (Turns out I did).

I grab a thorax I had sitting around and slam a typical T2 PVP fit on it, it was a pretty hardy ship for what it was. 15k EHP, 5x T2 Hobs, same old same old.

I load this thing up and look for alternate routes into low sec. I find a nice little pathway leading to Black Rise which i figured would have something to shoot at. If not at least I could see what I'm missing in Low Sec.

Empty empty empty. System after system had nothing in it, till in the corner of the screen I see a Red SOMETHING bug out. "Meh, this is low sec - Reds are everywhere" I say to myself. Figuring he was travelling through like I was.

Turns out he wasn't. He must have seen me jump in - so he jumped out and sat on the next gate. I've jumped through now, and I'm staring at this guy on the overview knowing that in 30 seconds or so my fate is sealed regardless of what I do.

(And why is it theres never anything to warp to easily off a gate, its always underneath you, above you or generally anywhere where it would take longest to align!)

I attempt to run to a planet and fail, I get locked down again but I actually get a shot off this time. I puff out a cloud of hobs and make a B-Line for the guy spewing HAMs at me. In honesty, I dented him... somehow.

Either way, I die again, he pods me without ransom so whatever. I'm back in Todaki again.

At this point I'm low on cash. The insurance on the 'Rax barely paid enough to replace my clone let alone buy a new ship. (well alright, I had 200m left but thats my safety limit).

I kinda sat back after losing two ships within the hour and thought... even if I could PVP well - I would have been ****ed either way.

Admittedly I was supposed to have a wingman who I was fleeted with - but he kinda just... went rogue and shuttled around Null for a while.

I'm not sure if I need to adopt a "keep fighting" attitude until my wallet is truely empty or just give up and blast veldspar safe under the veil of CONCORD?

Dillon Arklight
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.06.18 09:08:00 - [2]
 

For the first time PVP experience I would start off with frigates, they are cheap and hard to catch in a gate camp. If you run into a gate camp keep calm and count to 15 seconds before hitting your mwd and approaching the gate then keep spamming the jump button. However they wont be able to kill anything above frigate size unless your lucky or skilled. Fly around null sec for a while and attack anything that takes your fancy. USE YOUR SCANNER! Get used to loosing ships and once you get the basics of PVP then progress to cruisers. Congrats of not rage quitting after loosing your ship to a gate camp, i used to Embarassed. If you can get a corp mate or two to go with you, its a lot more fun in a group. I also believe there are some corps who run PVP training courses, if after loosing a few ships your still interested in the isk sink that is PVP then try going on one if you feel its necessary.

Despite what some people say you dont become an expert PVP'er straight away. Each ship you loose teaches you a lesson. The good pvp'ers can go weeks without loosing a ship the great PVP'ers loose a ship a day and learn something new with every loss mail.

Wow got a bit carried away, you could probably just read the first line of my post for some good advice. Fly dangerous.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.06.18 09:16:00 - [3]
 

I'm afraid you tried to jump into the deep end with bigger ships in a dangerous part of low sec, alone. Best to go with another guy or two who know what they are doing. Don't give up. Smile

Firkragg
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.06.18 09:19:00 - [4]
 

Yeh if you are trying to learn how to pvp solo the trick is to keep it cheap. When i started trying to learn i flew alot of t1 cruisers and unrigged bcs. As i recall a t2 fit cruiser is only a few mill loss after insurance and the t2 fit myrm was about 10mill loss which at the time was what i could roughly afford to loose. If your finding even t1 cruisers hard on your wallet then you may need to find a new income source.

Another thing that i see commonly recommended is pvping in frigates. Now this has the advantage that they are dirt cheap so you can quite literally throw them into any situation you want and if you die it doesnt matter and you probabaly will learn something. The downside to the frigate method is that there is alot of targets in low sec that you will have no chance of engaging (although you might as well try since your in a frigate anyways)

Finally i really recommend trying some sort of pvp lessons like the agony unleashed pvp training. You sign upto their class and then they have a roam were they go over basic skills and techniques and apparently is all well done with lots of good supporting material. Anyways hope all this info has been useful.

Ironnight
x13
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.18 09:25:00 - [5]
 

Try frigs size ships first,tech II are the best, but rifters and Punishers are quite fun too. If you want too try out pvp training try agony unleashed http://www.agony-unleashed.com/news.php they run some fun classes with lots of people goin out in tech I frigs, they rarely disappoint and they are pretty cheap.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.18 09:55:00 - [6]
 

Just keep pressing the warp to button (when you selected random destination) when your ship is about to die, and your pod should be fine.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.06.18 09:58:00 - [7]
 

Reven must be trolling Very Happy

I don't believe you're poor, I don't believe your story as it has too much 'lack of braincell'/newbie stuff. Good read though.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.06.18 10:30:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Tzar'rim
Reven must be trolling Very Happy

I don't believe you're poor, I don't believe your story as it has too much 'lack of braincell'/newbie stuff. Good read though.


Does sound like a troll, and yah it was a quite good read.

rcs619
Element 115.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.06.18 11:23:00 - [9]
 

Yeah, we've all been in those kinds of situations. It sucks, and it can be frustrating. If you really want to fight someone, and actually want to be sure you have a chance, you might want to give our Tetra Games service a look. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1098320 We offer organized PvP in a controlled environment. To be sure BOTH fighters have a fair shot, and the chance to make some ISK with the betting system we have in place.

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.18 11:45:00 - [10]
 

I've PvPed for a while and even now I only really use frigates, 'cause when you're a bit cash-strapped a 500k T1 raiderfrigate isn't much of a wallet dent, and it means you can last a long time between grinding / GTC's / valuable kills, regardless of how many ships you lose. My advice is to use frigates untill you can effectivly judge how to deal with most scenarios, then move onto cruisers, but for gods sake to start out just fit T1. Saves you a crapload of cash per ship.

DaDutchDude
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.06.18 13:21:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: DaDutchDude on 18/06/2009 13:21:12
First off: kudos for throwing yourself in the deep end and trying to get your PVP on. Many (including myself) put this step off for a long time, but once you get a taste, it becmoes quite enjoyable. At the same time, it seems like you're making some classic mistakes, and I hope that by pointing them out and suggesting alternatives, you'll get more success in the future.

Small ships are better to start off PVPing
Fly small ships so you have plenty of opportunities to avoid fights. The reality is that when you PVP solo, you'll have to be very selective about who and what you take on, but when you use a big ship, jumping or warping into an area almost automatically means you are committed to a fight. These ships cost more money to loose, esp when you T2-fit them. At the same time, you'll be amazed at how well frigates and destroyers can do in solo and small gang PVP. Don't go with the 'bigger is better' theme, it's simply not always true.

Also, T2 is nice, but expect to loose many ships, so cheap T1 will usually do fine while loosing. Remember that your goal shouldn't be at first be to win fights, but to learn how to fight. Getting out of a fight you're loosing would be more of a valuable learning experience then winning a fight just because you had a better ship with bigger guns.

Low sec is not always the best place to start PVPing
Low sec has a lot of restrictive rules on PVP. Fighting on gates or stations is usually not feasible for small ships (T1 cruiser and destroyer / frig hulls), because if you shoot at somebody unprovoked, the station / gate guns will pop you. Engaging at belts is fine with a frig, but if you warp to a station for repairs, you'll still get popped unless you wait out your agression counter. These and many other rules and exceptions to those rules make combat quite complex and thus not very newbie friendly.

0.0 on the other hand is a great place to PVP where things are much simpler. The greatest danger is the presence of bubbles, but when you know what to do (make bookmarks, scan gates, return to the gate when jump leaves you in bubble) and have a fast small ship, most situations are easily avoidable or survivable.

Become a thinker before you become a fighter
The description of your second encounter gives a lot of clues. It shows how your opponent thought out and planned, and you assumed, and as it turned out, assumed incorrectly, to add insult to injury.

I'm not aware of the exact situation, so my analysis is based only on the information you gave in your post. However, I think your choices were most likely based more on a sense of 'oh ****' instead of calm analysis. The calmness only comes with experience, and I know for myself I'm still not there even having been in a PVP corp for a while now. Based on your info, I probably would have headed back to the gate, not fired at the opponent, jumped back through and warped off on the other side, while my opponent was stuck because he couldn't jump because of aggressive acts.

To make a choice like that though, you need to think about these things before you act, have a complete plan and only then start acting. I know I still find myself acting on impulses and loosing almost every time, while when I think and stay calm, I either win or survive.

In low sec, you should almost always be able to get your pod out safely. When you know you're going down, select a celestial and align to it, and start spamming the 'warp to' button. Pretty much only smart bombs or lag will be able to still get you killed in that situation. Again, this needs thinking before something happens, not waiting untill your ship has exploded to act. And again, you first need to 'know' these things, and then you need to be experienced enough to stay calm, think and then act.

I'm not saying that to be arrogant, because I consider myself still a PVP newbie and make my share of mistakes, but I just hope to instill in you PVP is often not about ship size or T2 guns.

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2009.06.18 13:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Wacktopia on 18/06/2009 13:50:47
Haha, yeah, been there.

PvP is by far the most fun I've had in EVE but you need to get used to how to learn it. I think you made two classic mistakes.

Mistake 1: Going solo. Solo PvP is for advanced players who really know what they are doing, not learners in battlecruisers (yep, I learnt this the hard way too). Start with something smaller and cheaper. There are loads of great Cruiser fits floating around that dont cost the earth and which the insurance coveres well.

Mistake 2: Big is always better. Its normaly to assume that because your beefed up Drake looks pretty tough in the face of rats that it will hold up well in a PvP fight - wrong. The bigger your ship the quicker and more likely you are to get locked, pointed, trapped and killed.

My Advice: Get in a cruiser and get in a corp/gang/fleet of about 10 players who know what they're doing so you can learn the ropes. If you are looking for a corp, eve-mail me.

Also: Spend some time in 1.0 somewhere quiet learning how to warp your pod out fast. Unless you are in 0.0 in a bubble or you get smart-bombed you should have ample time to get your pod out every time.

Finally: If you jump through onto a red again the safest option is normally back through the gate:...
1) Dont panic!
2) Wait for ~25 seconds and remain cloaked (so your session timer nearly elapses)
3) Click "approach" on gate and turn on your MWD (you should either be fast or have enough tank to get there :) )
4) As you approach 3km start spamming the "jump" button.

If the other guy agresses (shoots) you then they will not be able to jump through for at least a minute, giving you time to escape the other side.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.06.18 16:38:00 - [13]
 

First off, and I know some people like to solo hunt in BC's, but I would recommend jumping down to a frigate hull for your solo hunting.

I would recommend an AF, but solo pvp in an Interceptor can be a blast as well provided you pick the right targets... which leads me to point two.

Pick your targets. In both scenarios above, you lost the fights before you engaged. Due to bad intel or whatever. The first case would have been easily avoided with a t2 frigate as you a should be able to warp out of any camp before even a sensor boosted inty can catch you (unless you get unlucky).

Learn to use your directional scanner like a pro. I always have it open, even when I pve (Not only because I live in 0.0, but i just generally like to know what is in space around me).

You should be able to, within a minute of entering a system, know who is in local, who is probably docked up (if there is a station in system), who is at a POS, who is safed up and what ship types you are likely to face.

You cannot just go out and find random spontaneous pvp in EVE and expect to win.

You need to act like a predator.

Jas Dor
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.18 17:47:00 - [14]
 

1. Study low sec mechanics. I'm just guessing but when that Drake engaged you he took gate gun aggro (which is probably what was doing the most damage to him). On the other hand that Thorax you where flying could only attacking things in belts (no gate guns). There isn't really a good reason to be in a belt in low sec these days. Miners can make more mining trit in empire and L4 missions have the rats beat.

2. Next time pack ECM drones. Gives you at least a chance to GTFO.

3. Consider joining a PvP Corp. Really if you want to PvP join a corp that specializes in it.

zombeee
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.06.18 20:26:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Reven Cordelle

(And why is it theres never anything to warp to easily off a gate, its always underneath you, above you or generally anywhere where it would take longest to align!)


A common misconception; you're not "aligned" to anything when you go 0 m/s. whatever direction you choose, you will warp at the same time. You don't have a direction when you're not moving.

RoboM
Heavens Gate Consortium
Dead Reckoning Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.18 21:25:00 - [16]
 

Hey Reven,

You are on the right path trying to PvP - imho its the most interesting aspect of the game. Also congrats on taking your losses without eally whining.

If you want to learn more about PvP join a specialised corp - it will save you a lot of isk and you will have a lot of fun.

Now about your fight with that nasty pie drake (yes I was the pilot Wink). Most of the dmg on me was done by the gate guns.

Nothing personal about not offering you a ransom on your pod, but these guns were hurting (my drake was gank fitted) so I had to get out fast and didn't have time for a chit chat.

Nice fight and maybe you will catch me next timeWink

If you feel like joining the dark side and turning pirate drop me a line

o7
RoboM


Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.06.18 21:26:00 - [17]
 

enjoy pvp it is the best any game has to offer and you came to the right one :)

(TL:DR)

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2009.06.18 22:56:00 - [18]
 

Not a troll. He's not saying anything offensive, unless the truth bothers you. Some guy wants to start playing EVE, you could point him at this thread and say "Yeah. Its pretty much like that for the first couple weeks, if not months. Frigates are your friend."

Next time, fly a t1 frigate. Not sure what races/weapons you fly so good t1 frigates = rifter, merlin, incursus is ok, (griffin but not for solo), tristan is ok. Not alot of choices really, most t1 frigs suck hard. Best way to learn though. Don't fit implants, maybe not even fit t2 modules, just t1 unnamed. There are not alot of targets you can physically kill in a t1 frigate, but losses are cheap. Really cheap.

Don't trust anybody in eve ever either. Only your corpmates and you boot them or leave corp as soon as the teach you otherwise. Same goes for your blues.

Caelum Dominus
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2009.06.18 23:03:00 - [19]
 

It never ceases to amuse how sitting on a gate for hours upon end killing people 10v1 can be fun to anyone... but that's EVE in a nutshell.

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2009.06.18 23:04:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
Don't trust anybody in eve ever either. Only your corpmates and you boot them or leave corp as soon as the teach you otherwise. Same goes for your blues.


That's a good point: if you get attacked in low-sec make sure you find out which corp they belong to and change standings to -5 or -10, which will put a orange/red minus [-] sign next to all the other members of the corp. Very handy next time your in the area!

Darkwolf
Caldari
TOG Empire
Combat Mining and Logistics
Posted - 2009.06.19 01:32:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Reven Cordelle
(And why is it theres never anything to warp to easily off a gate, its always underneath you, above you or generally anywhere where it would take longest to align!)


Something you're obviously not aware of... When you jump into a system, although your ship visually appears to be aligned in some arbitrary direction, your ship actually has no heading at all unless you decloak or start moving.

What this means is it takes an equal amount of time to get into warp regardless of what direction your target is. That's why very slow ships can sometimes appear to warp sideways.

Artassaut
Minmatar
Shadow Striders
Property Management Solutions
Posted - 2009.06.19 05:25:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Darkwolf
What this means is it takes an equal amount of time to get into warp regardless of what direction your target is. That's why very slow ships can sometimes appear to warp sideways.


Love mah freighters. Happens to capital ships too.


 

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