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blankseplocked An idea for Salvaging rights and Looting rights
 
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Leeluvv
The Black Ops
Posted - 2009.06.17 13:48:00 - [1]
 

There are numberous debates going on about the rights of people to salvage other people's wrecks and I don't want to restart that debate here. What I would like to do is raise the idea of Salvaging and Looting rights that a player can grant/sell to another player/corporation/alliance.

This is just an idea I had whilst trying to understand the flaws with the current salvage mechanics (note that this doesn't mean I agree with any of the varying points of view on salvage).

I thought about the idea of being able to claim Salvage Rights in the way that someone may do this in real life. This then led me to the idea of being able to do the same thing for Looting Rights; however, I don't know if this would be too complex and time consuming, even if it would improve the game for all parties.

Ideas that would need to be covered include:

1. Automatic rights for defined groups and players. e.g. Player A kills Player/NPC B and gets automatic Looting Rights. He can claim Salvaging Rights if certain conditions are met (conditions not defined at this point).

2. Ability to claim or request rights. e.g. Player A kills Player/NPC B, claims rights, loots and salvages some wrecks, but not all, and goes offline. Player C finds Player A's wrecks and requests Looting or Salvaging Rights from Player A. When certain conditions are met (conditions not defined at this point), such as time spent waiting for reply or payment to Player A, Player C is given the respective rights. (Does Player B maintains rights to their lost ship's wreck or do they have to obtain the rights from the new owner?)

3. Ability to transfer rights and a definition of what the transferred rights are. e.g. Player A can loot all wrecks of Player B within system C for D hours.

4. Consequences to bypassing the rights system will also need to be defined.

This could open up a whole new dynamic level within the game and you see the emergence of not only rights for looting and salvaging, but a market in the purchase and sale of these rights.

Ideas on a post card to the usual address...

Ultranoia
Posted - 2009.06.17 13:54:00 - [2]
 

No.

Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.06.17 13:56:00 - [3]
 

It would make the game way to complex. The current mechanic is just fine.

Sturdy Girl
Silent Ninja's
Posted - 2009.06.17 14:02:00 - [4]
 

The current mechanic is fine.

Leeluvv
The Black Ops
Posted - 2009.06.17 14:03:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Leeluvv on 17/06/2009 14:06:29
Originally by: Lost Hamster
It would make the game way to complex. The current mechanic is just fine.


So, if it's complex it shouldn't be done! Well, that doesn't bode well for the game, does it.

Originally by: Sturdy Girl
The current mechanic is fine.


So how can I transfer looting rights with the current mechanics? Oh, it doesn't actually exist.

Is anyone else willing to actually think before they insist on seeing their avatar on a forum?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.06.17 14:05:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Leeluvv
There are numberous debates going on about the rights of people to salvage other people's wrecks
Not really, no — just some occasional whining from people who don't understand why it was put in the game.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.06.17 14:08:00 - [7]
 

Most simple solution: Remove wreck ownership.

There would be no confusion about this issue from then on.

(Also move loot to salvaging)

Corwain
Posted - 2009.06.17 14:15:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Leeluvv
Is anyone else willing to actually think before they insist on seeing their avatar on a forum?


Judging from your little thread here I'd say no, probly not.

There are no flaws in the current salvage mechanics. Until it is in your hanger IT IS NOT YOUR SALVAGE. Have a nice day.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2009.06.17 14:18:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Leeluvv
Edited by: Leeluvv on 17/06/2009 14:06:29
Originally by: Sturdy Girl
The current mechanic is fine.


So how can I transfer looting rights with the current mechanics? Oh, it doesn't actually exist.

Is anyone else willing to actually think before they insist on seeing their avatar on a forum?


No need to get shirty. Currently you can transfer the rights through mutual trust. If you can't trust the person granting you rights to the loot then your loss. Similarly you can invite looters to your gang and they have the right to take wrecks generated while in gang. No risk for either party.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.06.17 14:30:00 - [10]
 

The concept of "rights" doesn't go far in the world of EVE.

I like it that way.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.06.17 14:31:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 17/06/2009 14:32:49
Originally by: Leeluvv
So how can I transfer looting rights with the current mechanics? Oh, it doesn't actually exist.
Yes it does:
Originally by: Container and wreck ownership
When taking is not stealing

If you do not own a loot or jettison container, you may still have an implicit right to take from it. However, this is only if the owner of the container:
  • Has given you a personal standing of 10
  • Is in the same player corporation as you
  • Is in the same gang as you (and is located in the same solar system as you).

In other words: mechanisms for allowing people to take your loot are already in place.
Quote:
Is anyone else willing to actually think before they insist on seeing their avatar on a forum?
Is anyone else willing to actually research the existing mechanics before proposing changes to them?

Simmer down and learn how the game works… Rolling Eyes

Leeluvv
The Black Ops
Posted - 2009.06.17 15:04:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Leeluvv on 17/06/2009 15:04:18
Originally by: Tippia


If you do not own a loot or jettison container, you may still have an implicit right to take from it. However, this is only if the owner of the container:
  • Has given you a personal standing of 10
  • Is in the same player corporation as you
  • Is in the same gang as you (and is located in the same solar system as you).



This is how to share rights, not transfer rights.

Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2009.06.17 15:23:00 - [13]
 

The second you decide that people suddenly need some kind of "right" to salvage wrecks you've already taken a stance on the issue.

Currently you don't need any rights for salvage so giving people a way of buying/selling those is

a) either pointless.

b) or based on changing the current status quo towards a system where you're somehow being punished for salvaging wrecks of others.

So, no thanks for me.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.06.17 15:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sturdy Girl
The current mechanic is fine.

highonpop
Gallente
Sucker Punch Industries
Posted - 2009.06.17 15:38:00 - [15]
 

i like the idea that i can shoot at someone for stealing my stuff.

if you enact this granting of rights mechanic, you also would need to do the same thing for cargo cans.

If someone isnt in my corp of my fleet they have no business messing with my stuff. so i will shoot them if need be.

also if im bored and would like a fight, all i need to do is go steal someone's loot. YARRRR!!

RedSplat
Posted - 2009.06.17 21:23:00 - [16]
 

No Missionbears, no salvage for you. Have some player induced risk with your cake.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2009.06.17 22:59:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Leeluvv
What I would like to do is raise the idea of Salvaging and Looting rights that a player can grant/sell to another player/corporation/alliance.


Why do you need any rights to salvage anything? It's salvage. It belongs to no one.

Ghoest
Posted - 2009.06.17 23:17:00 - [18]
 

the current salvage situation is good

your ideas are dumb

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.06.17 23:23:00 - [19]
 

There aren't "numerous debates", there are numerous complaints. CCP has already flatly stated their position on salvage rights over and over, and they will not be adding salvage flags.

That said, feel free to quote this for posterity in the event they actually do add those Mad

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2009.06.18 03:16:00 - [20]
 

In before being moved to features and ideas forum.......


seriously dont post this stuff here, if you have an idea put it in that forum, thats what it is there for.

-10

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.06.18 03:23:00 - [21]
 

So many times I got a field of wrecks and I am too tired or drunk to sal them, so I raise the flag in local asking if anyone wants to salvage and nobody answers.

Either people WANT to steal it and see it being given to them as boring, or they think it's a trap, or by now everybody in local has blocked me for being a weeniehead.

Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2009.06.18 05:39:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Kessiaan on 18/06/2009 05:39:04
The only fix the current system needs is to be able to tractor a yellow wreck / can (with appropriate flagging).

Looting / salvaging rights are way too complicated and totally unnecessary. If you and your buddy are out doing whatever and he's cleaning up, does it matter if he flashes red? Why do you care? Just make him able to tractor the wrecks and all will be fine!

Lana Torrin
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.06.18 05:46:00 - [23]
 

Hi! Your idea.. Its ****!

CCP Applebabe

Posted - 2009.06.18 05:58:00 - [24]
 

Moved to " Features & Ideas Discussion ".

Gray Phantom
Posted - 2009.06.18 15:35:00 - [25]
 

Quote:
I thought about the idea of being able to claim Salvage Rights in the way that someone may do this in real life.


But you didnt think very much did you. Because you didnt reaserch real life salvage rights very well.

After a full 2 mins research -

in maritime law, the rescue of a ship or its cargo on navigable waters from a peril that, except for the rescuer’s assistance, would have led to the loss or destruction of the property. Under some jurisdictions, aircraft may also be salved. Except for salvage performed under contract, the rescuer—known as the salvor—must act voluntarily without being under any legal duty to do so, apart from the general duty to give assistance to those in peril at sea or to stand by after a collision. So long as the owner or his agent remains on the ship, unwanted offers of salvage may be refused. A derelict—a vessel found entirely deserted or abandoned without hope or intention of recovery—is, however, fair game for anyone who comes across it. Typical acts of salvage include releasing ships that have run aground or on reefs, raising sunken ships (or their cargo), putting out fires, and so on.

To help you I bolded some.
Oh and just because you shot the ship to create the wreck does not make you the 'owner'. The owner is some poor exploded Sansha pilot. You are lucky the loot is tagged as yours.

leich
Amarr
Sad Panda'z
Posted - 2009.06.18 15:37:00 - [26]
 

FAIL

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.06.18 15:41:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 18/06/2009 15:41:54
The easiest solution to the whole "problem" is quite obvious.

When you salvage a wreck with loot still in it, what happens? A jet can spawns.

So... change it such that killing a ship immediately spawns a neutral wreck and a corp tagged jet can.

Then any salvager can tractor the wreck, while only the combatant and their friends can tractor the jet can.

That way salvaging remains an open ended profession, while the combatant can still claim their loot.


EDIT: For those who would suggest lag or whatever... they'd both time out after the usual 2hrs. And you can set your Overview to only display Wrecks or only Jet Cans if that is what you're after.


 

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