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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:06:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/06/2009 14:38:15
Intended audience

Perspective public company enterpreneurs, traders who want to expand their business, new auditors in search of a spot under the sun.


Introduction

In this document, I will introduce you to an high ratio of success method to grind investors reputation.
Just take into account, that not everything said is as straight as it looks like.


From dirt to the Altar

Reputation. Solid, thick reputation. Who does not want that? Many a door magically open to the Trusted, many business opportunities arise.

When you started the game, they told you how mining was the way to go. "Get a Bantam, fit 2 lasers and dig your path to richness and prosperity".
So here you went, grinding like an obsess for hours to no end.
Little could do the can flipper or the competition. You were sailing straight to a bright future, paved with Veldspar. You know the deal, Chribba is Veldspar's avatar and he's famous and all...
Of course you'd pour effort, and min maxing with the humble means you were given to.

Then one day you joined a corp and you got LOLed. "Hey dude you are but a cog, you are rolling to line up someone else's pockets with cheap, long, boring labor. The pros, are us missioneers".
So you investigate a bit and read some forums. Missioning is the way! 20-40-60 and why not 80M Isk per hour. All talk about it, all write about it, they can't be wrong. You are so going to toss your mining ship and start grinding agents' reputation in the most min maxed way!

Then one day you are talking with a random guy, highly regarded by your corp CEO. "Hey, dude open your eyes. You are but a cog in the economy. We, the Public Company Holders are the spine of EvE. We are the Titans makers, we hold the legendary T2 BPOs..." Banks lend us billions on our very word. The Big Ones trust us with their billionaire investments. Fun, fun!
You are impressed. They have to be the End Game VIPs!
Hmm... what to do... Well, you grinded your mining ships, you grinded agents, you grinded standings, you grinded missions.
So, you start reading the Marked Discussion forum and read about this divide: "the establishment" of the Trusted Ones and the "tourists", permanently in search of fame and reputation. Aka, the well known "haves vs haves not".
Well, you deserve your slice of fame, don't you? So you start reading thread after thread, debate after debate. Apparently you need to be "trusted" and have high "reputation".
TA-DA! So those are the things to grind, it was mechanically easy for the rest of the game, wasn't it?
But you soon discover it's not so linear once you switch from game to meta-game. There's those tossers called "human beings" which will scold you and tell you that reputation is earned, not given.

You draw a quick plan of action:

1) Join SCC Lounge like the good guys do, and start some conversations over there.
2) Start taking interest in the various MD discussions.
3) Visibility rule them all! So, you figure out the best way to grind reputation is to offer a nice, pointless but "noisy" bond.

The idea is that if you get to show you do good with a small project, then you'll get slowly accepted among "The Trusted".
You plan that the next IPO / bond will be twice as big, and so will be the next, your road clearly paved to success.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:08:00 - [2]
 

Now, some troll is asking on your IPO / bond thread why you did not ask for an audit! How do they dare! But well, let's give them their damn audit, anything to grind reputation faster!
Oh noes, another hooligan is demanding you cover your exposition with due collateral now. Pfft, let's toss those 200M, you have 2B in your wallet after all. It'll be good PR, well worth locking some pocket change!
The pros, The Trusted, The Elders will look at this and cast their gracious benediction and Act Of Legitimacy!




But.... WHAT????????!!!!!!??? Instead of elevating you to the Gotha Of Finance due to your Precious Deeds of taking audit and collateral protection, The Trusted are STILL WHINING!

What the hell is wrong with them!


Enough blathering, now talk about how to grind the damn rep

Still e-raging about the fact your forum stickies "copy and paste generated 200M IPO / bond" is not rescuing the success you planned, you alt tab in game and read SCC Lounge.
A guy with a short Asian Name is exactly talking about how not only reputation has to be earned, it cannot be farmed as well.

So here you see, you were dead wrong, on all the line. Plus, if you agreed on the subtitle above, you are still doing it wrong.

You were "pulling" reputation out of the others, when it'll only come to you by itself, at its own pace.
This is why you failed. By doing your 200M IPO / bond you won't earn trust at being loaned billions tomorrow.

All you'll earn is a reputation at being a diligent bond template text copy and paster and a nice clerk (which is something). Maybe a nice accountant.


Ok, I got it. In the end there's nothing called "reputation grinding". Useless guide is useless

No, it's not useless. You just started with a wrong and hasty foot and stopped reading too early.

Now take a breather and think. Since you can't pull reputation out of thin air, how do you get reputation raining over you by itself?
You guessed it: not in a quick way, sorry to ruin the parade (*watches 90% of the impatient readers leaving the page right now*).

Ok, now that they have gone...
First of all you'll have to start something real. That is, not a "200M bond because I plan building lucrative T1 ships, on BPCs while at it and to sell them in that cozy NBSI low sec system".
You may start with something small. If you are in a corporation, ask to be teached and become their trader / advisor / industrial. Your good deeds will slowly spread, you'll be backed by being trusted to administer i.e. 10B on behalf of your semi-famous corporation.

If you are a loner, you want to embark in something "social", because admit it, there's little fame coming off pressing "build 10 x Iteron Mark V" and selling it on market. You'll need something like i.e. a delivery service, something people can be happy of and talk their friends about.
If you post on MD, try giving friendly, sensate advice (yes, I should begin following my own advice I know, I know) without going for the "big e-fame hits".

After a while - it'll take months - something will click and The Big Guys will stop bashing you by default.
At this point your activity might have a NAV of 2-3B... if you feel inclined, if you feel you did your "duties" you can start a 2-3B bond that actually makes sense, and the others will know that.
You won't state "it's to build T1 BS at a low sec POS" this time, because you'll actually have a clue and will start the bond "to improve my existing business I already have". Without any farming effort off you, some posters will say "yes I am using his services since 3 months and he's fast and good" - such is reputation when it decides to rain upon you).

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:10:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 06/07/2009 11:40:55
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2009 10:21:06
You'll clearly state how you'll accept reservations after the audit's result. People will want to give you money even before that, because they know it's money well invested in someone who earned his way up (and did not social engineer a grind).

Of course, being quite good at your job you have been doing since a while, you'll succeed and people will pressure you at starting new and bigger bonds. Without anyone talking about scam. Actually the investors will ask you to take their money.

So here it ends this "guide". I told you, not everything said is as straight as it looks like.



Edit: added a second part at

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1096296&page=2

Edit: added a third part at the same URL stated above.

Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:12:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Ji Sama on 12/06/2009 14:13:50
This is a very good post, and a MUST read for anyone wanting to stay in MD for longer than one OP....
GJ thank you for taking the time to do this VV... IMO you already have a good rep...

eVaLF
Retirement Retreat
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:14:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Now, some troll is asking on your IPO / bond thread why you did not ask for an audit! How do they dare! But well, let's give them their damn audit, anything to grind reputation faster!
Oh noes, another hooligan is demanding you cover your exposition with due collateral now. Pfft, let's toss those 200M, you have 2B in your wallet after all. It'll be good PR, well worth locking some pocket change!
The pros, The Trusted, The Elders will look at this and cast their gracious benediction and Act Of Legitimacy!




But.... WHAT????????!!!!!!??? Instead of elevating you to the Gotha Of Finance due to your Precious Deeds of taking audit and collateral protection, The Trusted are STILL WHINING!

What the hell is wrong with them!


Enough blathering, now talk about how to grind the damn rep

Still e-raging about the fact your forum stickies "copy and paste generated 200M IPO / bond" is not rescuing the success you planned, you alt tab in game and read SCC Lounge.
A guy with a short Asian Name is exactly talking about how not only reputation has to be earned, it cannot be farmed as well.

So here you see, you were dead wrong, on all the line. Plus, if you agreed on the subtitle above, you are still doing it wrong.

You were "pulling" reputation out of the others, when it'll only come to you by itself, at its own pace.
This is why you failed. By doing your 200M IPO / bond you won't earn trust at being loaned billions tomorrow.

All you'll earn is a reputation at being a diligent bond template text copy and paster and a nice clerk (which is something). Maybe a nice accountant.


Ok, I got it. In the end there's nothing called "reputation grinding". Useless guide is useless

No, it's not useless. You just started with a wrong and hasty foot and stopped reading too early.

Now take a breather and think. Since you can't pull reputation out of thin air, how do you get reputation raining over you by itself?
You guessed it: not in a quick way, sorry to ruin the parade (*watches 90% of the impatient readers leaving the page right now*).

Ok, now that they have gone...
First of all you'll have to start something real. That is, not a "200M bond because I plan building lucrative T1 ships, on BPCs while at it and to sell them in that cozy NBSI low sec system".
You may start with something small. If you are in a corporation, ask to be teached and become their trader / advisor / industrial. Your good deeds will slowly spread, you'll be backed by being trusted to administer i.e. 10B on behalf of your semi-famous corporation.

If you are a loner, you want to embark in something "social", because admit it, there's little fame coming off pressing "build 10 x Iteron Mark V" and selling it on market. You'll need something like i.e. a delivery service, something people can be happy of and talk their friends about.
If you post on MD, try giving friendly, sensate advice (yes, I should begin following my own advice I know, I know) without going for the "big e-fame hits".

After a while - it'll take months - something will click and The Big Guys will stop bashing you by default.
At this point your activity might have a NAV of 2-3B... if you feel inclined, if you feel you did your "duties" you can start a 2-3B bond that actually makes sense, and the others will know that.
You won't state "it's to build T1 BS at a low sec POS" this time, because you'll actually have a clue and will start the bond "to improve my existing business I already have". Without any farming effort off you, some posters will say "yes I am using his services since 3 months and he's fast and good" - such is reputation when it decides to rain upon you).



Whats cool is if you offer a service you make profit on at same time, you make double the isk Shocked

eVaLF
Retirement Retreat
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:20:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Ji Sama
Edited by: Ji Sama on 12/06/2009 14:13:50
This is a very good post, and a MUST read for anyone wanting to stay in MD for longer than one OP....
GJ thank you for taking the time to do this VV... IMO you already have a good rep...


If you really read into this, he is trying to attack me I think. He talked about bond which I did, he talked about "Service" which I did. I could be way off, and I am a forum ***** but hey sounds like me.

He forgets I had a very good rep before this, and even with the EBANK thing possibly hurting me some, I don't plan on letting it slow me down. If I wanted to scam I would have done so when I had 600bil in my hands not now when I have 40-50bil Isk.

Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:21:00 - [7]
 

MD rep is like a freighter. If you're out to get one and don't know how or what to do with it, you're wasting your time. You'll get a rep precisely when you need it.

Oh, and every once in a while some asshat will come along and try to blow it up, just for lolz.

Lecherito
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:22:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: eVaLF
Originally by: Ji Sama
Edited by: Ji Sama on 12/06/2009 14:13:50
This is a very good post, and a MUST read for anyone wanting to stay in MD for longer than one OP....
GJ thank you for taking the time to do this VV... IMO you already have a good rep...


If you really read into this, he is trying to attack me I think. He talked about bond which I did, he talked about "Service" which I did. I could be way off, and I am a forum ***** but hey sounds like me.

He forgets I had a very good rep before this, and even with the EBANK thing possibly hurting me some, I don't plan on letting it slow me down. If I wanted to scam I would have done so when I had 600bil in my hands not now when I have 40-50bil Isk.


Yeah, picked up on this as well. Everyone's a critic.

-L

Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:23:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Ji Sama on 12/06/2009 14:27:13
actually evalf, i think its you that is reading that into it..
imo he is just addressing a trend we are seeing, yes the bond your assisting in is one of these.
he is not attacking your service imo...
which is a really nice service, much like the scs. and we need more like you and VV...
actually you should let VV in your little circle then you could compete directly with the scs, ie you have an trusted 3rd party (LoW), you can broker/manage/present and vv could audit these small upcomming ipo/bonds...


i agree with the OP.
that comming to the md and making a small bond you dont profit from isnt rep building!

Deitis Montage
Caldari
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:56:00 - [10]
 

This is a very good read, a must for anyone entering the MD forum

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:03:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/06/2009 15:03:46
Quote:

If you really read into this, he is trying to attack me I think.



Not at all. I am actually studying a possible thing to do for / with BSAC... but it's a long, long term project because it costs RL money.

I don't even have an idea on what should I be about, because I'd LOVE to join your project.

This guide came up because:

- It's days I see people slapping a small bond together and saying they do it because so they'll build up rep.

- The Asian name guy in SC Lounge is real (damn me if I recall his name) and abitual poster in there.

- I can't be honest if I don't tell I somewhat fell in this same pitfall myself (even if the "progression" I talk about is of a fictional person, I did quite different).
In fact Bad Bobby was right.




TLDR version: this guide is NOT made with ill intentions, any and ALL the similarities are pure coincidence I did not plan in advance (except the Asian name wise man).

Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:04:00 - [12]
 

you made a great OP VV you should be proud imo!

ingenting
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:39:00 - [13]
 

good read, and i agree with ji sama

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:23:00 - [14]
 

As for the initial "stimulus" at writing this stuff, this is the forum origin which made me recall what I read in game:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1096128

1. A reputation isn't something you choose to build or not build, it's a natural byproduct of your behavior, personality, and actions.

RothimusPrime
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:29:00 - [15]
 

Enjoyed your post, thanks
I myself am fairly new around here and appreciate all the help/guidance that several of you give.

Mordou
Mordou Manufacturing and Trade
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:47:00 - [16]
 

This is certainly a helpful guide, thanks for taking the time to right it up. I also felt this was directed at meShocked I guess a lot of new people around here could say the same thing though.

Well the good news is I am at 4.3 with "The Elders, I hear at 5.0 I can propose an IPO/Bond without the Riot Gear Cool

I kid, I kid Laughing As a noobie around here any help is appreciated Very Happy

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2009.06.12 17:30:00 - [17]
 



If you want to build reputation, I suggest you read this article.





Hexxx
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.12 17:41:00 - [18]
 

DBANK had their teeth kicked in by the MD community at first. They kept on doing their thing regardless...and by consistently performing and proving everyone wrong for months...they earned a decent reputation.

Cogwheel
Gallente
New Eden Credit Bureau
Posted - 2009.06.12 19:12:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Cogwheel on 12/06/2009 21:10:59
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
"Hey dude you are but a cog, you are rolling to line up someone else's pockets with cheap, long, boring labor. The pros, are us missioneers".


Quote:
"Hey, dude open your eyes. You are but a cog in the economy. We, the Public Company Holders are the spine of EvE. We are the Titans makers, we hold the legendary T2 BPOs..."

Crying or Very sad I feel so marginalized



Laughing

Edit: needed some emphasis and whitespace corrections

Pastiche
Posted - 2009.06.12 20:25:00 - [20]
 

/me goes back to his mineral hauling and T1 ship building. Watching the larger cogs grind along.


V.V. great post, entertaining read. I thought that getting rep involved doing your thing, doing it well and doing it visabily. i.e. eVaLF, Ji Sama, DBANK, EBANK, One Stop Research, CCSM, etc.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.06.12 20:56:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/06/2009 20:56:06
Quote:

V.V. great post, entertaining read. I thought that getting rep involved doing your thing, doing it well and doing it visabily. i.e. eVaLF, Ji Sama, DBANK, EBANK, One Stop Research, CCSM, etc.



You see it "visibly" but there's a work done in game before you see that effect. They are not just "plastic rep" built entirely on a forum.

Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
Posted - 2009.06.12 21:29:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Hexxx
DBANK had their teeth kicked in by the MD community at first. They kept on doing their thing regardless...and by consistently performing and proving everyone wrong for months...they earned a decent reputation.


^^That..

Mova B
Posted - 2009.06.12 22:46:00 - [23]
 

LMAO Laughing

Protip: Don't ever show your cards to some forum ***** in MD crying for audit...

Lui Kai
Better Than You
Posted - 2009.06.12 23:15:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

- The Asian name guy in SC Lounge is real (damn me if I recall his name) and abitual poster in there.


\o/

M4ria
Posted - 2009.06.13 10:25:00 - [25]
 

So you want rep, to get loaned Billions ? Quite an achievment to use money that is not yours to get more money. How about earning a stack of cash and make it grow by yourself ?

Noone needs Rep.....

And btw you get a bad rep way faster then a good rep anyways. So one dumb mistake or being at the wrong spot at the wrong time and you'll have a bad 'branding' for quite some time.

So why invest time to 'earn' a good rep ? just do your thing and have fun while doing it!

Lui Kai
Better Than You
Posted - 2009.06.13 10:31:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: M4ria
So you want rep, to get loaned Billions ? Quite an achievment to use money that is not yours to get more money. How about earning a stack of cash and make it grow by yourself ?

Noone needs Rep.....

And btw you get a bad rep way faster then a good rep anyways. So one dumb mistake or being at the wrong spot at the wrong time and you'll have a bad 'branding' for quite some time.

So why invest time to 'earn' a good rep ? just do your thing and have fun while doing it!


You do realize you mostly just paraphrased the OP....right?

Lecherito
Posted - 2009.06.13 12:31:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: M4ria
So you want rep, to get loaned Billions ? Quite an achievment to use money that is not yours to get more money. How about earning a stack of cash and make it grow by yourself ?

Noone needs Rep.....

And btw you get a bad rep way faster then a good rep anyways. So one dumb mistake or being at the wrong spot at the wrong time and you'll have a bad 'branding' for quite some time.

So why invest time to 'earn' a good rep ? just do your thing and have fun while doing it!


You do realize you mostly just paraphrased the OP....right?


Thank god we have Lui to make these absolutely critical observations.

-L

Krylon Rhae
Posted - 2009.06.13 12:50:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
1. A reputation isn't something you choose to build or not build, it's a natural byproduct of your behavior, personality, and actions.


/this

Just as in R/L. A good reputation comes with time and a commitment to words - actions - deeds. Sad to say, there are no short cuts.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2009.06.13 12:59:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

- The Asian name guy in SC Lounge is real (damn me if I recall his name) and abitual poster in there.


\o/


I was initially struggling to guess which one it was, but my money's on Ji Sama for the time being.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.06.13 13:03:00 - [30]
 

Nope, it's Lui Kai Wink


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