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5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:05:00 - [31]
 

Would they really pay for Eve with real money considering the exchange rate though? I doubt it myself.

I would've imagined RMT macroers earn enough isk to sub all their accounts using GTC's within a day or so.

But then I think noone would be able to do a financial exchange with a macro player without CCP intervention, or so they say.

Yeah my moneys on GTC's for isk.



Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:14:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Would they really pay for Eve with real money considering the exchange rate though? I doubt it myself.

I would've imagined RMT macroers earn enough isk to sub all their accounts using GTC's within a day or so.
So? The subscriptions still get paid, so their continual presence in the game still means money in CCP's pocket. Remove them and CCP earns less…

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:14:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time.

If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew!


Yeh sure. There are also 10x more game mechanics stopping you from engaging macros including: concord, buffed concord, yet again buffed concord, empire wars nerf, corp hopping, alliance hopping, blocking alliances from wardecs, noob corps, more noob corps, logoffski etc. Everything ingame, everything for macros to abuse.

And petition is worthless. Per one macro banned you have 10 new in its place: all payed by the isk "caught" one managed to get.

Cat Molina
Minmatar
Intransigent
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:16:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
But the real problem is ice harvesting. There is (almost) infinite supply of ice at always the same location. You can send in fleets of macros and efficiently scale your income with each more bot.

[...]

And what happened with your plans to move ice belts to low sec anyway? It was announced more than 1 1/2 years ago, nothing happened since then, did it?


^^This.

Macro-mining ice (in Empire, of course) wasn't a problem in the past. It was difficult to move the goods to null-sec.

But when jump mechanics were added, it suddenly became easier to buy fuel in Empire and jump it to null-sec than to actually mine your own. This is the cause of the bloated 0.0 POS networks that take forever to dismantle.

However, CCP refuses to upset this particular applecart since it would anger those in the null-sec alliances unwilling to mine their own fuel. Instead of fixing the mistake (making allowances for Empire POS owners and then moving ice products from Empire), they would rather attempt to create a new sovereignty system out of whole cloth.

Should be interesting to see the ripple effects from that. Laughing

Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:17:00 - [35]
 

What CCP should do is go over all the macro programs people use to macro in EVE, and then place safeguards in place so that all the programs are caught. It's precisely what RuneScape have been doing, and macroing there has gone from being the plague of the game to almost totally gone.

That, and nerf noob corps.

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2009.06.12 17:00:00 - [36]
 

Spawn more Chribbas in the belts and then the macros will starve

Bklyn 1
Posted - 2009.06.12 17:05:00 - [37]
 

I love how the isk buyers come running into these threads to defend the macro-miners.

Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.12 18:10:00 - [38]
 

don't forget about the market macros... they are as bad or maybe even worse for EVE than macro miners.

Edgar Wind
Posted - 2009.06.12 18:10:00 - [39]
 

i know a lot a isk farmer for isk buyer ingame.

ccp don't do nothing beacous 10 % account subscription is payer bby people farming money.

i have evidence, about this extra popolation of noob corporation character doing their work.

this is on mission but i can immagine also macroing them or salvage or mining as u said.

PJRiddick
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.13 11:51:00 - [40]
 

I found it,..haha,...
people i am sorry but i jsut reposted this discussion,..CCP if you see this,..delete the onther post that i jsut did,..mybad!
ANYWAY,...You are all right,...there are a lot of variables to macro nminers, its odd that CCP hasent come up with something yet to fwart the situation, these macros are only making things realy bad all over. drives the prices up all over and from what ive been told, this is where the isk sellers are getting there isk for the off site selling of isk, well one of the places that is. As i posted a bit ago, and i will reinerate here,...
"Macro mining is an exploit, almost as big and bad as the POS exploit and is a bannable offence by the EULA"
And i ahve given a solution to the problem of the macros,...make up a script where we can convo them and if they dont respond in a certain amout of time, then pop them, with out concord intervention.
I dont feel its fair that these macros reap all the reward for running macros while im spending hours relentlessly mining and the macros are off playing golf, or playing with there boyfriends or what ever.....Just seriously torks me off

Lilla Kharn
Amarr
Posted - 2009.06.13 11:52:00 - [41]
 

If you made 5 alt corps and then war dec'd each other 5 ways, then declared mutual, will anyone war dec'ing those corps have to pay an exorbitant amount of money to have the dec?

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.06.13 13:48:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Would they really pay for Eve with real money considering the exchange rate though? I doubt it myself.

I would've imagined RMT macroers earn enough isk to sub all their accounts using GTC's within a day or so.
So?


My point was the part you cut off at the end.

I heard CCP's plan originally was supposed to be to just let the macroers do what they like as it's too much work to keep banning them, but isolate them from the real players by having a heavy hand with RMT transactions and such.

This appears to be failing very badly in part because all the isk they would use to buy GTC's will be macroed isk where they can easily afford to drag the GTC prices up and pay whatever they need to stay into the game, while this will also be pumping hundreds of millions of macroed isk into real player account circulation who they buy the GTC's off, the worth of ISK falls again, helping to wreck the economy a bit more on top of their mining.

It would also seem incredibly hippocritical if they have and do let GTC exchanges with macro RMT's slide with all the isk they've seized in the past from people who've unknowingly recieved laundered isk.

ceaon
Posted - 2009.06.13 14:05:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: PJriddick
Dear CCP
I am making this in the public forums to discuss what can be done with the macros that are in EVE,..all over eve to be exact. The other night i was out trying t mine when 3 or 4 macros come in and to the point they were having macro wars,....kind of funny actually,..they were all fighting over the roids,...all there miners shooting allthe roids and circleing the roids,....I jsut left,..that was all i could do, bu tthats not the point here.
These macros seem to be in game all over EVE and CCP,..you dont seem to do anything about it. Ive reported it before,...but nothing seems to be done about it, and its getting worse.
This just realy takes away from those of us that want to play the game as it is intended to be played. Those that macro seem to reep the benifits of such a program that is for sure, but here i sit, trying to make good but the macros have beet me to it.
Is there anything tha tyou can do about this?
I do have a solution CCP,...but you wont like it, but it is a solution.
before i start poping macros, ill email one of you guys with my intent, and ill try to contact the macro and give him like 30 minutes to respond. If i dont here anything from him after 30 minutes then he gets poped. of course ill get my ship concorded,...but ,..if i talke all the precautions to contact the macro,...Ill be reimbursed my ship,...

Its a suggestion CCP,...and a fair one to boot. macors are not allowed in the game. do something about it. These macros are ruining the game almost as bad as the POS deal a while back.

I awate for your reply on this matter.

-=+>xXx<+=-
riddick

sir i have 4 accounts and 2 pc and sometimes i mine whit all of them, that make me a macro ?

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.13 14:22:00 - [44]
 

People who say ccp doesnt ban macroers because they make money from them, think before making stupid posts. If CCP could kill all macro'ers, and effectively shutting down RMT, then all the RMT'ers would need to buy their isk with gtcs, and ccp would become rich.

10% macro'ers? 90% of internet statistics are made up...



And brilliant idea OP, no concord protection for everyone who autorejects chat invitations Rolling Eyes

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2009.06.13 14:24:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Bklyn 1
I love how the isk buyers come running into these threads to defend the macro-miners.


I love these 'EVE-patriotism' responses: "You're either with us, or you're an isk-buyer."

LOL

KB

Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.13 15:24:00 - [46]
 

I petitioned a guy who clearly used a macro to spam. The spam moved over from local chat to a private convo that I initiated, and then it kept going repeatedly with variants of spam messages for over an hour until either I or the macroguy closed the convo window.

If I search for the guy, his name get listed and that makes me think ccp did not ban him at all.

I want to say that I really hate the isk spam in my "national" chat, one day I will quit because of this. I don't know what ccp is really thinking about this. It's a shame!

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.06.13 15:38:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
People who say ccp doesnt ban macroers because they make money from them, think before making stupid posts. If CCP could kill all macro'ers, and effectively shutting down RMT, then all the RMT'ers would need to buy their isk with gtcs, and ccp would become rich.
Question is, though, who would buy all those GTCs…? In order for CCP to become rich, there would have to be an influx of players (or at least accounts) to swallow that increase in GTC availability. There is a finite demand for how many GTCs can be sold — any more than that and you start to cannibalise existing subscriptions and add zero income (because people stop subscribing and start buying the GTCs the reformed RMT:ers dump on the market for next to nothing).

…well, unless CCP introduced NPC buy orders on PLEXes, but then their journey to the dark side the tranformation to clear cut ISK-faucet-for-$$$ would be complete, and would put RMTers to shame in how much it would screw up the economy.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.06.13 15:43:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Tzar'rim
Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic).

AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic.


The rule is:

if you do something clever with game mechanics to avoid being blown up, it's never an exploit.

if you do something clever with game mechanics to blow someone up, it is usually an exploit.

So changing corp to escape a wardec is fine. But changing corp to sneak up on someone is an exploit.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.06.13 15:47:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Cat Molina
Originally by: Gnulpie
But the real problem is ice harvesting. There is (almost) infinite supply of ice at always the same location. You can send in fleets of macros and efficiently scale your income with each more bot.

[...]

And what happened with your plans to move ice belts to low sec anyway? It was announced more than 1 1/2 years ago, nothing happened since then, did it?


^^This.

Macro-mining ice (in Empire, of course) wasn't a problem in the past. It was difficult to move the goods to null-sec.

But when jump mechanics were added, it suddenly became easier to buy fuel in Empire and jump it to null-sec than to actually mine your own. This is the cause of the bloated 0.0 POS networks that take forever to dismantle.

However, CCP refuses to upset this particular applecart since it would anger those in the null-sec alliances unwilling to mine their own fuel. Instead of fixing the mistake (making allowances for Empire POS owners and then moving ice products from Empire), they would rather attempt to create a new sovereignty system out of whole cloth.

Should be interesting to see the ripple effects from that. Laughing


Most people in null-sec alliances would cry tears of joy if the POS spam were reduced

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.06.13 15:47:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Blane Xero on 13/06/2009 15:47:44
Leaving a corp is fine; Setting a corp up with 3-4-5-6 (Etc) different body corps and hopping between them as one goes to war, is not.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.06.13 15:53:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time.
This is about the extent of what happens. We find them, we report them, and that's it. They're still ingame and still macro mining. It's as if filing a petition against known macro miners is useless as no action is ever taken against them.


If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew!
Unfortunately due to concord, a players loss in trying to stop macro miners is more than the macro miners loss. It is not financially feasible to kill them.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.13 17:33:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Furb Killer
People who say ccp doesnt ban macroers because they make money from them, think before making stupid posts. If CCP could kill all macro'ers, and effectively shutting down RMT, then all the RMT'ers would need to buy their isk with gtcs, and ccp would become rich.
Question is, though, who would buy all those GTCs…? In order for CCP to become rich, there would have to be an influx of players (or at least accounts) to swallow that increase in GTC availability. There is a finite demand for how many GTCs can be sold — any more than that and you start to cannibalise existing subscriptions and add zero income (because people stop subscribing and start buying the GTCs the reformed RMT:ers dump on the market for next to nothing).

…well, unless CCP introduced NPC buy orders on PLEXes, but then their journey to the dark side the tranformation to clear cut ISK-faucet-for-$$$ would be complete, and would put RMTers to shame in how much it would screw up the economy.

Looking at the plex/gtc prices, and how much they used to cost, there can be quite a few extra sellers of gtcs without problems. And when they become cheaper more people will start using alts.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.06.13 17:54:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time.

If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew!


Yeh sure. There are also 10x more game mechanics stopping you from engaging macros including: concord, buffed concord, yet again buffed concord, empire wars nerf, corp hopping, alliance hopping, blocking alliances from wardecs, noob corps, more noob corps, logoffski etc. Everything ingame, everything for macros to abuse.

And petition is worthless. Per one macro banned you have 10 new in its place: all payed by the isk "caught" one managed to get.


Yeah, this pretty much. Virtually every change to hi-sec in the last 2 years has been a relatively greater benefit to macroers/sweatshoppers than to anyone else.

When will people realise that making the game safer and easier disproportionately advantages ISK-farmers/macros over normal players?

And CCP tolerating for months on end utterly blatant macroing (like we see in Igunn, to name an especially egregious example) doesn't really motivate me to spend time and effort petitioning. If you actually want to have players police the macro/farmer problem, then that's fine - but end the huge bias in mechanics that hinder us from doing so.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.13 17:58:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: RedSplat
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic).

AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic.


Continuous 'Corp Hopping' to avoid wardecs is classed as an exploit.



Wrong. You can always leave a corp. And you can always join a corp.

Dream less.

If you are convinced try petitioning it.

You will be sorely disappointed.

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2009.06.13 17:59:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition (to which nothing will be done about) including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time.

If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew!


fyp...b/c we all know CCP needs the income from the macro accounts, no matter how many times they say theyre on a "crusade" to keep them out of the game.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.13 18:09:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Zaiyo Modi
I petitioned a guy who clearly used a macro to spam. The spam moved over from local chat to a private convo that I initiated, and then it kept going repeatedly with variants of spam messages for over an hour until either I or the macroguy closed the convo window.

If I search for the guy, his name get listed and that makes me think ccp did not ban him at all.

I want to say that I really hate the isk spam in my "national" chat, one day I will quit because of this. I don't know what ccp is really thinking about this. It's a shame!


Banned people stay on the character list, they aren't biomassed.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.13 19:43:00 - [57]
 

If basic isk earning game play in EVE required more intelligence than a simply macro can provide, the problem will be solved.

Unless, you think, the player base can't deal when mining isn't a task anymore that can be automated, but requires intelligence decisions within regular intervals.

ovenproofjet
Caldari
Therapy.
Posted - 2009.06.13 22:54:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: ovenproofjet on 13/06/2009 22:56:23
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time.

If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew!


And what exactly do you do with these petitons? Burn them for heat at CCP? I sent in a petition about a GROUP of obvious macro miners and I've yet to get a reply about it. Suppose you guys are more worried about these guys subscriptions than actually caring about the very game you've spent, what, 10 years working on? Sounds pretty crazy actually.

Surely with the number of angry people you get posting threads and replies like this you'd think you might do something to aid THE MAJORITY of your player base

PJRiddick
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.13 23:23:00 - [59]
 


Regardless,...one that leaves a corp is not a problem withme,..its ging into a npc and macroing and having concord protect yoru ars is a problem,...
Big Brother is watching!,...that seems to be the problem.

-=+>xXx<+=-

Originally by: Tzar'rim
Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic).

AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic.

PJRiddick
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.13 23:25:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Tzar'rim
How would it be different from a corp of miners with active pilots that came into 'your' belt and started to mine 'your' roids?


Teh miners that i comne accrost are ususally polite,..and if you ask them tomove, they do. I ususally mine with my alt, and if they are mining alone, ill ask them to belly up, and mine with me, ill even go so far as to ask them if they want me to haul for them. Out where i am as in other systems, we all know each other,..prolem is that there are those that are macros,..and im starting to see who those are too.


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