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Vizroth
Posted - 2009.06.09 12:43:00 - [1]
 

I respect that Eve is a game which is loyal to the people who been playing since the beginning and it makes it extremly hard for new players to ever be competitive in PvP. What I'm wondering is... if I'm interested in PvP and I don't want to be completely destroyed every time I engage in a skirmish; Should I be expected to train 15m skill points in combat?

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I actually don't mind that older players should have the ability to destroy my ship with out effort but it's the fact that when I'm training combat I'm not good for anything else. I can't train my extraction skills, industrial skills, leadership skills etc... I just have to wait a year before I can be competitive.

I guess this is why so many people have two accounts because unless things have changed you can't train your alts while training your main. It seems to me like a good idea would be the ability to train one combat skill and one non-combat skill so players can enjoy the best of both worlds.

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But the main question is... what can one do while waiting for their combat skills to reach an appropriate level or am I approaching the game in the wrong way?

Thanks

Leana Darkrider
Minmatar
Creatio -ex- nihilo
The Donkey Rollers
Posted - 2009.06.09 13:11:00 - [2]
 

If you want to play this game solo, then you need alot more skillpoints.
But don't think that skillpoints will save you from leaving the battlefield alive. Tactics are more important then having millions of skillpoints.

If you want to roam with mates, your skillpoints are less important. Tactics are even more important here. If you can fly a frigate, and your mates cruiser or battlecruisers, you can do a good job tackling someone and you mates will do the damage.

Like I said, it's all about tactics. and yeah, patience. you need patience in this game Wink

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.06.09 13:12:00 - [3]
 

To be effective in PvP you need:

<racial> frigate III (frigate)
Small <racial weapon type> I (guns/turrets)
Propulsion Jamming I (webifier & warp jammer)
Afterburner I (afterburner)
Energy Grid Upgrades II (capacitor power relay)

All in all, that's a few hours worth of training.



I'm a huge carebear now, but when I started playing I actually was in a 0.0 corporation. I trained those skills and went out tackling stuff so my corpmates could get a chance to kill said stuff.

Rezark
Minmatar
MicroFunks
Posted - 2009.06.09 13:19:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Rezark on 09/06/2009 13:20:07
Coming from a recently returned player (Left in 2007) with still comparatively low skill points to most players, I would say you're probably just getting stuck into a mindset that you're useless to do anything.

In all honesty, it doesn't take very long at all to get most skills to level 3 training. Sure, you'll be a lot more specialized if you're at l4/l5 with skills, but if you want to get a taste of different things, it never hurts to try out training up a few extra skills in other categories.

In regards to PVP, I've taken out a few people in Low Sec in just a Rifter. If you want to get started in PVP, FW is a good thing to do because you can function as a tackler, etc.

I think Eve is what you make it. I too was discouraged when I left Eve for the first time, but I've come into it with a different mindset this time around.

That said, maybe its not your cup of tea.. it does take a bit of time to accomplish stuff. Some people like that, others don't. :)

Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2009.06.09 13:51:00 - [5]
 

If you want to solo, you need a lot of skillpoints in the core areas - there's really no way around it. Doesn't take a year but it does take a few months.

That said very few people in this game solo. It's not a solo game - all you need is a few basic skills and the proper mindset to get you going. Lots of people still fly T1 frigs in FW, you can be in AFs and interceptors in a couple of months, both of which are reasonably decent solo ships.

It's what you make of it. If you're scared and can't handle loss, you'll never be successful in pvp in EvE. You just gotta go for it and be able to take it on the chin while you're learning the ropes.

gfldex
Posted - 2009.06.09 14:12:00 - [6]
 

Nearly all players had ppl ahead of them when they started to play. Some where successful other where not. But ofc, lack of SP is always a nice excuse.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.06.09 15:41:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 09/06/2009 15:41:42


If you want to play it solo, you will never have enough SP to feel you're competitive, even if you would have most relevant skills to L5 and the rest to L4.
If you play in a group, the larger the group, the less relevant your SP total is... down to the point where a couple of days, a week tops of training will do just fine.

Of course, there's this other thing in EVE - when you fight, you are EXPECTED to die. Quite often.
Surviving is not your main target, killing (or assisting in the killing of) as many enemies as possible is your goal.
And it's not on a "per battle" basis, but on a "per week/month/year" basis Twisted Evil

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.06.09 17:18:00 - [8]
 

I rolled an alt the other day and withing 2 days I had her pvping in Faction War, with a couple frigate kills under her belt.

She has 300 000 SP.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.06.09 17:22:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Vizroth


I guess this is why so many people have two accounts because unless things have changed you can't train your alts while training your main.




Why would any MMO let you train or skill up 2 or characters on one account? I know of none that do, so don't look at that as a fault of EVE's.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.06.09 18:07:00 - [10]
 

You don't need 15 million skill points to specialize in one job.

Those with millions and millions of skill points have specialized in many different jobs. I have almost 10 million SP and I've specialized in mining, ECM warfare, covert op ships, scanning, L4 running battleships, and interceptors.

And that's only 10 million SP. Think of what you can do with just a fraction of that.

Olvel
Posted - 2009.06.09 20:54:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Vizroth
I respect that Eve is a game which is loyal to the people who been playing since the beginning and it makes it extremly hard for new players to ever be competitive in PvP. What I'm wondering is... if I'm interested in PvP and I don't want to be completely destroyed every time I engage in a skirmish; Should I be expected to train 15m skill points in combat?

You do not need 15m skill points.

You do not need to wait a year to start PvP.

And if you do just sit back and let those skills train for a year, doing nothing, you won't have a clue what to do when you finish training.

Grab a cheap frigate, get some friends together, and go kill something. You can be useful in a fleet with less than a day's worth of training.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.06.09 20:55:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 09/06/2009 20:55:40
Originally by: Vizroth
I respect that Eve is a game which is loyal to the people who been playing since the beginning and it makes it extremly hard for new players to ever be competitive in PvP. What I'm wondering is... if I'm interested in PvP and I don't want to be completely destroyed every time I engage in a skirmish; Should I be expected to train 15m skill points in combat?

I actually don't mind that older players should have the ability to destroy my ship with out effort but it's the fact that when I'm training combat I'm not good for anything else. I can't train my extraction skills, industrial skills, leadership skills etc... I just have to wait a year before I can be competitive.

I guess this is why so many people have two accounts because unless things have changed you can't train your alts while training your main. It seems to me like a good idea would be the ability to train one combat skill and one non-combat skill so players can enjoy the best of both worlds.

But the main question is... what can one do while waiting for their combat skills to reach an appropriate level or am I approaching the game in the wrong way?

Thanks


You would make an excellent point if EVE PVP consisted of 1v1 arena honorduelz with the same ships/fittings.

Kuranta
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2009.06.09 21:15:00 - [13]
 

Rest assured, you can catch up pretty fast.

For one, training a skill to lvl 4 will give you a 20% boost in the same time an older player skills from 4 to 5 for a 5% boost. The skill on lvl 5 might unlock better ships/mods, though.

Since skills can only be trained to lvl 5, at one point, the vet will have to start to crosstrain to another race - if you specialise, you will catch up within a reasonable timefreame.

Furthermore, in PVP your RL skills (knowing your enemys ship and it's abilities, your fitting, knowing the game mechanics) are way more important than SP.

Maestro Chemics
Radioactive Battle Bunnies
Posted - 2009.06.10 00:34:00 - [14]
 

As it has already been stated above you do not need many skillpoints to do PvP.

When I started not so long ago I was having the same thoughts as you are having now. But after a week or so of doing missions and learning game basics, I applied to a corp which I'd found here on the forums in the recruitment section, and began learning the basics of PvP. I think you would do yourself a favour if you did the same, and found a cool bunch of people to fly with.

You will notice that skill points do not matter when you're with good people. They will help you find an appropriate role for fleet (most likely as a tackler). Think also of the personal experience that you could have gained in that year.

Aeon Noblemagus
Minmatar
Jupiter Force
Posted - 2009.06.11 07:14:00 - [15]
 

just last night our corp did a suicide t1 cruiser roam into 0.0,
while i wasnt there i was on vent with them

But we/they got a curse, a T2 recon ship got killed by four (4) cruiser, 2 rupture's and two thorax's.
We lost 5m i think altogether, he lost 150m. and one of the guys only approx 3m SP total. So there is no excuse.
http://www.eve-stovokor.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=334

few nights before that we did a suicide roam with 5 frigs, we would have killed a hurricane if we warped in on top of him,and a interceptor if we had a disruptor.

Iria Ahrens
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.06.12 05:59:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 12/06/2009 06:01:22
Anyone that thinks that you need a lot of skill points to be effective in pvp needs to read this article and watch the video.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1025677
What made the difference with them was player skill, not character skill.

waiting is a waste. The only way you're going to get good at pvping is by pvping.

Bestofworst
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.12 07:23:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Bestofworst on 12/06/2009 08:42:22
First few days you can do:

Tackling
or
EWAR

And also don't knock Destroyers. They are inty killers in 0.0

Edit: Let me expand on this.

My first weeks of the game were in Eve University, I spent the wars as a tackler as I trained other skills needed to get where I needed in Eve, and during the last bit I also dabbled in some EWAR.

After that leaving I joined FW and did Cruiser DD while still tackling. And as I went to 0.0 I flew Cruisers, Destroyers, and more firgates and I'm still around 5mil SP and having a ton of fun.

Honestly, don't rush yourself, have fun with the ships you can fly well. Nothing can **** you off more than losing your expensive battleship because you didn't have the skills to fit it or fly it properly.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.06.12 08:26:00 - [18]
 

I started piracy at about 9 months, If I had any clue as to what I was doing I could have started far sooner.

hell a battleship with 4 neuts and 4 t1 guns, drone bay of ecm drones, and buffered to hell can be rather valuable to pirate gangs.

A Battlecrusier with most skills to 4, and tech 2 weapons is nice to have, field a decent buffer, quicker lock time, faster at getting the **** out, and ~500dps


Mikayla Grey
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.12 09:27:00 - [19]
 

The blah blah you can never have enough sp stuff comes from bitter vets that never really tried to pvp. Typically they run missions until they have 20 mill sp and then go out with their shiny battleship to low sec without a clue on how to use it in pvp. Once they inevitably get blown up they go back to being a bitter missioner.

Talianax
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.12 10:15:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Vizroth


But the main question is... what can one do while waiting for their combat skills to reach an appropriate level or am I approaching the game in the wrong way?

Thanks


You are not getting EVE or have been told rubbish.

Yes, veterans may have a edge in flying ships that may require longer training, but a 6y old veteran in a t1 frigate will go down to a 'newb' in a decent bigger ship 1 on 1.
9/10 cases that is.

I've seen new players in t1 ships rip T2 cruisers apart.

So the more SP the better ofc so you have much more choice of modules and ships you will be flying, but more SP does not mean they will always beat you.








 

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