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Jodie Amille
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2009.06.08 21:32:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Jodie Amille on 08/06/2009 21:33:18
The main thing I like about the tempest: It's not scary so small cruiser/battlecruiser gangs will happily engage you. Fun ship for getting fights and generally pretty cheap as well.

EDIT: small sentence change

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.08 21:45:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 08/06/2009 21:51:23
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Electric Universe
Edited by: Electric Universe on 08/06/2009 19:36:22
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Enlighten us, oh knower of all things. Extra points if you approach it NMX style.

NMX style. I'll guess your talking about NightmareX here now.

In that case, he have the 100% same opinions about the Tempest as Omarvelous have.

Omarvelous is one of the few players (like NightmareX) in EVE that really see the good things with the Tempest. Because everything in EVE is not about having most EHP and DPS when your outside of huge blob fests.

You know, a Battleship today isn't a ship that is any good to kill targets smaller than Battlecruisers effectivly. But the Tempest is pretty good at doing that though. It's one of the very few BS'es that is good at that.

The Blaster Mega is also good at that, but the Tempest is better because it can fit 2x Heavy Neuts and have better speed than the Mega. And can catch smaller targets much much easier and kill them easily because targets like cruisers and frigs wont go anywhere with no cap and no MWD when they are neutedWink.

So if you want a ship that is balanced good in killing ships from frigs to BS'es with good results, then the Tempest is good.

And the Tempest is a ship for smart and experienced PVPers ONLY. You need to know the ship in and out 110% to understand how the ship is working. And you need a butt load of skills for the Tempest to be effective in it.


Excellent. Your argument consisted of:

- The tempest uses heavy neuts
- Learn2fly your ship

Almost a NMX clone. Bravo.

Bravo for not getting it that me and NightmareX are in the same family. I'm his brother.

And because of that, we pretty much have the same opinions on things. Even in EVE. And because i'm his brother, we tend to understand things in the same ways in 98% of the cases. So that's why i have almost the same opinions as him when it's about things in EVE.

Anyways. Yes, when a Tempest can use 2x Heavy Neuts without having to take any things off the ship just to fit them is good. Any BS'es that can fit 2x Heavy Neuts have a much much higher chance to survive against frigs, cruisers, HAC's and Battlecruisers, and some very cap hungry BS'es.

Other ships like Maelstrom, Abaddon, Rokh or Hyperion have to sacrifice DPS if they want to fit neuts.

And yes. A Tempest is not a ships for newbies. It's a ship for those who know how to PVP and for those who knows the Tempest 110% in and out, like i told earlier. And you need to know how to fit the ship properly.

I have seen sooooo many times that players fits the most disgusting fits ever on a Tempest. No wonder why they gets slaughtered in the ship.

Any players who fail in one of those things will die horribly in the ship and will most likely come to the forum later and cry that the Tempest sucks. While it's not the Tempest who sucks in that situation, but the noob player.

Traderboz
SlaveMart
Posted - 2009.06.08 21:51:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Traderboz on 08/06/2009 21:51:02
Originally by: Electric Universe

Bravo for not getting it that me and NightmareX are in the same family. I'm his brother.

And because of that, we pretty much have the same opinions on things. Even in EVE. And because i'm his brother, we tend to understand things in the same ways in 98% of the cases. So that's why i have almost the same opinions as him when it's about things in EVE.
...
It's a ship for those who know how to PVP and for those who knows the Tempest 110% in and out, like i told earlier.



To clarify....

By brother, he means he is NMX. And by PVP, he means 1v1 on SiSi.

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.08 21:56:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 08/06/2009 21:58:37
Originally by: Traderboz
Edited by: Traderboz on 08/06/2009 21:51:02
Originally by: Electric Universe

Bravo for not getting it that me and NightmareX are in the same family. I'm his brother.

And because of that, we pretty much have the same opinions on things. Even in EVE. And because i'm his brother, we tend to understand things in the same ways in 98% of the cases. So that's why i have almost the same opinions as him when it's about things in EVE.
...
It's a ship for those who know how to PVP and for those who knows the Tempest 110% in and out, like i told earlier.



To clarify....

By brother, he means he is NMX. And by PVP, he means 1v1 on SiSi.

Sorry to make you a sad panda, but 5 vs 5, 10 vs 10, 20 vs 20 or 50 vs 50 on sisi is not 1 vs 1 dude.

He have done those types of fights millions of time on Sisi. And not only that, but NightmareX got 25 new kills within 14 mins with his Tempest ON TQ 1 or 2 weeks ago.

And i'm still not NightmareX. I have never been that. Electric was originally made by NightmareX if that's what you meant. But was later given to me because i wanted to play EVE.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.06.08 22:55:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Electric Universe
Bravo for not getting it that me and NightmareX are in the same family. I'm his brother.

And because of that, we pretty much have the same opinions on things. Even in EVE. And because i'm his brother, we tend to understand things in the same ways in 98% of the cases. So that's why i have almost the same opinions as him when it's about things in EVE.

Anyways. Yes, when a Tempest can use 2x Heavy Neuts without having to take any things off the ship just to fit them is good. Any BS'es that can fit 2x Heavy Neuts have a much much higher chance to survive against frigs, cruisers, HAC's and Battlecruisers, and some very cap hungry BS'es.

Other ships like Maelstrom, Abaddon, Rokh or Hyperion have to sacrifice DPS if they want to fit neuts.

And yes. A Tempest is not a ships for newbies. It's a ship for those who know how to PVP and for those who knows the Tempest 110% in and out, like i told earlier. And you need to know how to fit the ship properly.

I have seen sooooo many times that players fits the most disgusting fits ever on a Tempest. No wonder why they gets slaughtered in the ship.

Any players who fail in one of those things will die horribly in the ship and will most likely come to the forum later and cry that the Tempest sucks. While it's not the Tempest who sucks in that situation, but the noob player.


Okay, to re-iterate, your new points are:

- 2 Heavy neuts
- Learn2fly your ship

Most excellent.

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:03:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 08/06/2009 23:06:00
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Electric Universe
Bravo for not getting it that me and NightmareX are in the same family. I'm his brother.

And because of that, we pretty much have the same opinions on things. Even in EVE. And because i'm his brother, we tend to understand things in the same ways in 98% of the cases. So that's why i have almost the same opinions as him when it's about things in EVE.

Anyways. Yes, when a Tempest can use 2x Heavy Neuts without having to take any things off the ship just to fit them is good. Any BS'es that can fit 2x Heavy Neuts have a much much higher chance to survive against frigs, cruisers, HAC's and Battlecruisers, and some very cap hungry BS'es.

Other ships like Maelstrom, Abaddon, Rokh or Hyperion have to sacrifice DPS if they want to fit neuts.

And yes. A Tempest is not a ships for newbies. It's a ship for those who know how to PVP and for those who knows the Tempest 110% in and out, like i told earlier. And you need to know how to fit the ship properly.

I have seen sooooo many times that players fits the most disgusting fits ever on a Tempest. No wonder why they gets slaughtered in the ship.

Any players who fail in one of those things will die horribly in the ship and will most likely come to the forum later and cry that the Tempest sucks. While it's not the Tempest who sucks in that situation, but the noob player.


Okay, to re-iterate, your new points are:

- 2 Heavy neuts
- Learn2fly your ship

Most excellent.

Yeah and your really awesome points isRolling Eyes?.

Bravo for a very detailed reply back to me on why i'm wrong, yeahLaughing.

Oh wait, you don't have any reasons at all, that's why. Your only reason is Tempest sucks because it's not a ship that fits your play style at all.

Funnelhead
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:06:00 - [37]
 

It's called being succinct.

No point using a thousand words when a dozen or so will do.

Essence Praetor
PWN3
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:10:00 - [38]
 

Would a Maelstrom that has a 1560 active tank and deal 1300 DPS suck? Or is that good? Confused


Please throw me a line here I am newbie Laughing

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:11:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah and your really awesome points isRolling Eyes?.

Bravo for a very detailed reply back to me on why i'm wrong, yeahLaughing.


I've made my point countless times over several years. You however, have said nothing. You are the one going against the grain, the one with no support, the one who rolls his eyes at an entire thread of general agreement.

Make a trip over to http://www.eve-search.com and search "AstroPhobic Tempest", I'm sure you'll find plenty of math and numbers showing why the tempest is simply inferior.

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:22:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 08/06/2009 23:27:48
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah and your really awesome points isRolling Eyes?.

Bravo for a very detailed reply back to me on why i'm wrong, yeahLaughing.


I've made my point countless times over several years. You however, have said nothing. You are the one going against the grain, the one with no support, the one who rolls his eyes at an entire thread of general agreement.

Make a trip over to http://www.eve-search.com and search "AstroPhobic Tempest", I'm sure you'll find plenty of math and numbers showing why the tempest is simply inferior.

Yeah it's inferior to YOUR play style. Your not targeting smaller ships in a BS, so it's fine with me.

Because when it's about going after ships like frigs, cruisers, HAC's and Battlecruisers in a Tempest is really really fun, because your most likely going to slaughter them really fast no matter how poor the Autocannons (DPS) or EHP is.

In some PVP styles the Tempest outshines the other BS'es by miles. I'm not looking on how the stats is and then says how good it's after that. I'm going after how good it's in a REAL PVP fight on TQ in the PVP styles where it's good and where it can do a very good job.

It's even working pretty good in RR gangs to if you have a brain to fit it good.

Listening to your rant and whining about the Tempest only because some EFT numbers are not as good as the other BS'es and because it's not good for your play style is making baby jesus cry a river.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:32:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Essence Praetor
Would a Maelstrom that has a 1560 active tank and deal 1300 DPS suck? Or is that good? Confused


Please throw me a line here I am newbie Laughing


Depends on the rest of the fit TBH. Fitting an AC Mael, for example, without a MWD would suck. Fitting an active tank without a cap booster would suck. Quoting overloaded numbers would be misleading. Fitting with an XL and 3 Op Solidifiers would suck, because you can't realistically keep the cap up to maintain your tank (no matter what EFT tells you).

So on and so forth.

-Liang

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:45:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Electric Universe
Listening to your rant and whining about the Tempest only because some EFT numbers are not as good as the other BS'es and because it's not good for your play style is making baby jesus cry a river.


NMX, this is what the problem is:
- You don't PVP on TQ, and you largely base your experience off 1v1's on Sisi, and the occasional prearranged NvN's. This has huge implications in ship performance.
- You don't accept arguments based on "numbers" and "EFT" because they aren't "real eve".
- You don't accept arguments based on "real eve" and "experience", and mock, flame, and troll the person making the post as a stupid idiot that hasn't the first clue of how to play the game or doesn't have the right "play style" or a high enough IQ.
- You either completely neglect to respond to thinks which show beyond doubt that you are wrong, or you ridicule the poster and avoid the meat of their post entirely.
- You deliberately start flame wars in otherwise reasonable threads (where there is general consensus) by insulting everyone in sight. Someone usually rises to the bait and we get 24 successive pages of you throwing personal insults at everyone in sight.
- You have a very strong history of lying about who you are, and about who your alts are.
- You offer completely unsubstantiated and absurd claims that border on impossible to statistically unlikely, and insult, flame, and troll anyone who disagrees.

Basically, what I'm saying here is that when you show up in a thread, NMX (and you are NightmareX, make no mistake), and the thread goes to **** pretty well immediately. And it's not because you are arguing a logical argument and refuse to give in that you might be wrong... it's that you don't make any attempt at logic or persuasiveness - you rely entirely upon trying to browbeat the entire Eve community into believing your total horse ****! I think I speak for everyone when I say that most of us had enough of bullying in the third grade.

-Liang

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:45:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: AstroPhobic on 08/06/2009 23:47:28
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah it's inferior to YOUR play style. Your not targeting smaller ships in a BS, so it's fine with me.


I'm not? Where do you come off telling me what I do and I don't do? Watch your step.

Quote:
Because when it's about going after ships like frigs, cruisers, HAC's and Battlecruisers in a Tempest is really really fun, because your most likely going to slaughter them really fast no matter how poor the Autocannons (DPS) or EHP is.


Okay, so when you massively overpower your target, the tempest is good because it's a subpar BS. Got it.

Quote:
In some PVP styles the Tempest outshines the other BS'es by miles. I'm not looking on how the stats is and then says how good it's after that. I'm going after how good it's in a REAL PVP fight on TQ in the PVP styles where it's good and where it can do a very good job.


Such as? I can't think of a single situation where the tempest would outshine either the typhoon or maelstrom. Zero.

Quote:

It's even working pretty good in RR gangs to if you have a brain to fit it good.


As said earlier in this thread, the typhoon is a much better RR boat.

Quote:
Listening to your rant and whining about the Tempest only because some EFT numbers are not as good as the other BS'es and because it's not good for your play style is making baby jesus cry a river.


Right, numbers mean nothing, DPS is for geek fanboi EFT warrior rararara. I've heard it a million times, haven't you said it a million times? You don't understand that everything comes down to numbers. Ommitance of certain numbers (such as cap drain/s or align time) have got you and your mind blowingly-thick brother(sister, self, alternate persona) on a personal tirade against those who use them. EVERYTHING a ship is capable of can be quantified.

Drek Grapper
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:48:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Omarvelous
Edited by: Omarvelous on 08/06/2009 17:33:54
I fly all 4 race's BS. I love the Tempest for Piracy.

Damage Control II
2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plate
Large Armor Rep II
Gyrostabilizer II

100MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
2x Sensor Booster II
Heavy Cap Booster II

6x Dual 425mm AutoCannon II
2x Heavy Unstable Energy Neuts

3x Projectile Ambit Rigs

5x Hammerhead II, 5x Warrior II

Locks down battlecruisers in 3 seconds. Dual neuts have saved me from tacklers, and crushed opponent's active tanks.

EFT Stats look bad when you look at raw damage, but you're not wasting time getting into damage range like a blaster boat, you have enough utility slots to quickly attack a ship on gates unlike the Amarr BS, and you move quicker than the other armor tanked races so you can avoid webs and scrams and get out if things go south.

I like being able to pick my ammo for the target's resist hole (I'm always flying with a covert ops scout), ambit rigs allow you to engage in a wide range of combat with good tracking.

Minmatar don't armor tank as well as the other races, nor do they hit as hard. They make up for it with a nice slot layout (good balance of low and mid slots for quick tackling and tank). I usually orbit around 20km firing away, and if the target is zooming at me I neut them and maintain range.

They also RR pretty well.

Damage Control II
2x Energized Adaptive Nano II
2x 1600mm Plate
Gyrostab II

100MN MWD I
Warp Disruptor II
LADAR ECCM
LADAR ECCM/Web/Sensor Booster/2nd Cap Injector
Heavy Cap Injector II

6x 800mm Autocannon II
2x Large Armor Remote rep II

3x Trimark Armor Pump Rigs

5x combat drones

Decent tank, flexible options for cap stability or eccm strength, quick locks, or webs.

*EDIT* There are things that EFT won't show for combat effectiveness. I just like how BS autocannons with ambit rigs hit a sweet spot for damage at 1/2 falloff. The tracking on autocannons is pretty good, and at 1/2 falloff (around 17-20km) you're still doing about 80% of your damage. Lasers are nice but scorch is limited to EM holes, and doesn't track as well (not to mention the ships lack the midslot flexibility to add tactical options like a web), and I don't get similar blaster damage at the 17-20 km range unless I'm in my Rokh shooting null ammo out of my neutron blaster cannons (with the Rokh's slow speed, slow lock, and lack of utility high slots).

I'm not saying the Minmatar BS are the best, I find them balanced for the type of combat I like to fly in, and I think the forums really underrate their performance. I've never been able to enjoy the tactical flexibility that I can with Minmatar BS.


Great post my good man. Very inspiring..has made me look at the pest in a new light.

Fly the ships you love and feck everyone else tbh. Cool

That's what Eve is all about. Wink

Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.06.08 23:50:00 - [45]
 

I'm going to try to avoid the flaming going on around here, I'm just going off my experience in flying all 4 race's BS. I know what the numbers in EFT say, yet at the ranges I've operated the Tempest at I've just seen some fantastic results. Results that other BS which lock slower, move slower, can't neut struggle to do.

My first BS experience was with Caldari BS, and I saw some similar high slot configurations between a Raven and the Tempest (6 primary weapons with a native bonus and 2 utility slots). I realized I would never get the dps numbers of a gank Mega/Raven, or the tank of an Abaddon, but I would gain some tactical flexibility with neuts, and a good number of mid slots while having enough low slots to fit a passable armor tank.

And Liang to quote you earlier about gate cmaping with small ships - I do have imagination (too much according to some of my corp mates), I've used assault frigs to tackle at low sec gates, but over time I've found it more effective having bigger ships which can fit a tank and throw on sensor boosters to lock quickly.

I was also referring to neuts to keep people from burning AWAY from the gate - not towards. Honestly, I've just used them to shut down Hyperion tanks, and to burn away from tackle T2 cruisers.

I dunno - I don't think the Minmatar BS suck, infact I don't think any race's BS suck (I dislike the Scorpion tbh - give it a larger drone bay por favor CCP). There's a different tool for each job. Amarr laser boats are all around pretty damn good, but not flexible (not a problem ina perfect world where you can muster up the perfect T2 cruiser compliment - sometimes you can't and BS have to do other roles).

Caldari Ravens and Rokhs are nice - and I'm still tinkering with remote shield reps with them. Again a shield tank negates mid slots tactical flexibility though (always going to lock last, no room for eccm, usually no webs, weaker tank when fitting a point and target painter, etc...)

Gallente BS I've grown to like over time. Nothing does the job of ending docking or gate aggression games like a 1300 dps blaster boat. I'm growing to like NULL ammo more, since 700 m/s is awfully slow. 800-900 dps at ~15km isn't too bad. The drones and the occaisional spare mid slot make for some great tactical flexibility bested only by Minmatar.

Amarr/Caldari - Gank and Tank - not flexible
Gallente - Gank or tank - flexible with drones and mid slot availablity
Minmatar - Gank or Tank (to a lessor degree) - flexible with capless weapons, utility slots, and a decent ammoun of mid slots to play with.

Just my 2-cents, I may be wrong, but all I can say is I have a blast pirating in a Tempest, and most of my gunnery is in hybrids... YARRRR!!

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.09 00:07:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Electric Universe
Listening to your rant and whining about the Tempest only because some EFT numbers are not as good as the other BS'es and because it's not good for your play style is making baby jesus cry a river.


NMX, this is what the problem is:
- You don't PVP on TQ, and you largely base your experience off 1v1's on Sisi, and the occasional prearranged NvN's. This has huge implications in ship performance.
- You don't accept arguments based on "numbers" and "EFT" because they aren't "real eve".
- You don't accept arguments based on "real eve" and "experience", and mock, flame, and troll the person making the post as a stupid idiot that hasn't the first clue of how to play the game or doesn't have the right "play style" or a high enough IQ.
- You either completely neglect to respond to thinks which show beyond doubt that you are wrong, or you ridicule the poster and avoid the meat of their post entirely.
- You deliberately start flame wars in otherwise reasonable threads (where there is general consensus) by insulting everyone in sight. Someone usually rises to the bait and we get 24 successive pages of you throwing personal insults at everyone in sight.
- You have a very strong history of lying about who you are, and about who your alts are.
- You offer completely unsubstantiated and absurd claims that border on impossible to statistically unlikely, and insult, flame, and troll anyone who disagrees.

Basically, what I'm saying here is that when you show up in a thread, NMX (and you are NightmareX, make no mistake), and the thread goes to **** pretty well immediately. And it's not because you are arguing a logical argument and refuse to give in that you might be wrong... it's that you don't make any attempt at logic or persuasiveness - you rely entirely upon trying to browbeat the entire Eve community into believing your total horse ****! I think I speak for everyone when I say that most of us had enough of bullying in the third grade.

-Liang

Keep lying that i'm NightmareX isn't going to make you look any good here on the forum. Accusing peoples of being someone i'm not is not a good way of going.

All of the points over is nothing more than blatant lies and accusing.

And if you haven't seen it yet. Then NightmareX does PVP on TQ today when he have the time.

And coming with lies that he doesn't do PVP on TQ is also making you look like an idiot. Sorry had to say it.

Because when you see this at the link here, and then see how many kills he got from that fight, then you can see that he's doing PVP on TQ in a close range Tempest today.

And when he have the time to do PVP, then he's doing a seriously nice job in PVP to.

So he have the full right to say how a Tempest is today in PVP. Ofc he can't post here for a while though, but he will say the same as i'm saying anyways, so it doesn't matter.

So can you show me any evidence that you have used a Tempest with a good close range setup lately and shown that you can do a good job in it?.

If not, then please shut the hell up and let the peoples that use the Tempest today say how the ship is instead of the EFT warriors.

One more accusing and more lies from you, i have no other choices to just report you for lying me right in the face about who i'am.

I will say it one more time, and if you don't want to listen, then just shut up about it. But i'm still not NightmareX, i can't be him, it's not possible. I'm 2 years younger than NightmareX and i'm not even born in the same city as him.

Traderboz
SlaveMart
Posted - 2009.06.09 00:27:00 - [47]
 

I think people fail to differentiate between a ship being useless and a ship being worse than the other ships in its class (or the worst). It's not really a hard concept, but it's one most people here are missing. When someone says the Tempest is worse than other battleships, they're not suggesting it's useless. To that end, just because you argue that the Tempest has uses, that does not mean it's better than the other battleships (i.e., not the worst BS). In a game like EVE, it's difficult to quantify what's "best" and what's "worst", but there certainly are some ships that come out on top and others that lag behind.

I've seen several times where people say that it might have **** DPS, it might have **** tank, but hey, it can still do X. Okay, fine, of course it can do something. Every ship can do something, and obviously the Tempest doesn't have 0 dps and 0 tank. The fact that it can do something doesn't really mean anything, since no one is arguing it's a purely useless ship. What matters is what it can do relative to other ships in its class (i.e., other battleships), and that's where Tempest really falls behind.

In most practical situations, the utility highs/lows don't make up for the crappy stats, and even with utility in mind, other ships tend to do it better. I tried recently to justify purchasing a couple more Tempests, but every time I looked at it, I just ended up buying more Phoons.

Oh well, back to watching this thread. I always am entertained by the lies NMX comes up with and how easy he is to troll, but I will give him this: he comes up with some really creative lies. I love how awesome his ships are on SiSi (who cares) and how his alt morphs from a stranger to a friend to a brother to a... what's next? Only time can tell.

Stay tuned...

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.09 00:36:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 09/06/2009 00:42:10
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 08/06/2009 23:47:28
Originally by: Electric Universe
Yeah it's inferior to YOUR play style. Your not targeting smaller ships in a BS, so it's fine with me.


I'm not? Where do you come off telling me what I do and I don't do? Watch your step.

Quote:
Because when it's about going after ships like frigs, cruisers, HAC's and Battlecruisers in a Tempest is really really fun, because your most likely going to slaughter them really fast no matter how poor the Autocannons (DPS) or EHP is.


Okay, so when you massively overpower your target, the tempest is good because it's a subpar BS. Got it.

Quote:
In some PVP styles the Tempest outshines the other BS'es by miles. I'm not looking on how the stats is and then says how good it's after that. I'm going after how good it's in a REAL PVP fight on TQ in the PVP styles where it's good and where it can do a very good job.


Such as? I can't think of a single situation where the tempest would outshine either the typhoon or maelstrom. Zero.

Quote:

It's even working pretty good in RR gangs to if you have a brain to fit it good.


As said earlier in this thread, the typhoon is a much better RR boat

1st thing.

Maybe your doing it in another BS than a Tempest, but you can do it better in a Tempest if your smart if your going after smaller targets.

You know, it's something that is called mixed sized gangs to, not only RR BS gangs. And in a mixed sized gang the Tempest is good.

I'm not saying the Tempest is poor against other BS'es, because it's not. It's just that some other BS'es are just some few % better than the Tempest in some things, but it still doesn't make the Tempest to be poor in PVP.

2nd thing.

Again, ever heard about mixed sized gangs?.

3rd thing.

A Maelstrom is not better at killing HAC's than a Tempest is. 2x Heavy Neuts = Insta death to all frigs, Cruisers & HAC's with no cap injectors.

A Maelstrom will still just hit them, but the HAC's can just MWD away and get out. With a Tempest, you have them webbed, scrambled and neuted, so they aren't going nowhere then.

So against a mixed size gang the Tempest will do a better job. It will kill the targets faster than the Maelstrom can.

4th thing.

Well i'm not using the Typhoon for RR works. If i'm gonna use a ship for RR it's the Tempest or a Blaster Mega. Simply because a Tempest can both do RR good and still be flexible against smaller targets, while a Blaster Mega can do RR good to, but have a massive DPS to kill the targets fast and easy when it's about the same size as the Blaster Mega is and bigger targets.

If it's about RR BS gang vs RR BS gang ONLY, also with only BS'es, then i might have used a Typhoon over a Tempest. But because there are all ships from frigs up to Battlships today in gangs, you need a ship that can kill everything good. Not only to kill BS'es and bigger ships very good and then sucks at killing everything else.

Continues on next reply because i'm out of characters left here to write the rest.............

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.09 00:37:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 09/06/2009 00:40:33
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Electric Universe
Listening to your rant and whining about the Tempest only because some EFT numbers are not as good as the other BS'es and because it's not good for your play style is making baby jesus cry a river.


Right, numbers mean nothing, DPS is for geek fanboi EFT warrior rararara. I've heard it a million times, haven't you said it a million times? You don't understand that everything comes down to numbers. Ommitance of certain numbers (such as cap drain/s or align time) have got you and your mind blowingly-thick brother(sister, self, alternate persona) on a personal tirade against those who use them. EVERYTHING a ship is capable of can be quantified.

5th thing.

Numbers means something, but real PVP skills / experience is 50% of how things is in PVP today. If your a damn good PVPer, you can do a really nice job in a ship that isn't so good stats wise.

But if your a horrible PVPer, then you can't kill nothing and then just dies even in the best ships that are in EVE for the type of PVP style you are doing.

So calling a ship for poor is not a right way to call things for, because every players in EVE is different and have different play styles.

I know a Blaster Mega is much better than a Tempest stats wise. But the Tempest is much better than a Blaster Mega to be flexible and to kill smaller targets fast.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.06.09 00:47:00 - [50]
 

Off-topic. ~Weatherman

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.09 00:47:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 09/06/2009 00:54:45
Originally by: Traderboz
Oh well, back to watching this thread. I always am entertained by the lies NMX comes up with and how easy he is to troll, but I will give him this: he comes up with some really creative lies. I love how awesome his ships are on SiSi (who cares) and how his alt morphs from a stranger to a friend to a brother to a... what's next? Only time can tell.

Stay tuned...

Is this Sisi?.

Laughing

He got 25 kills within 14 mins there.

NightmareX is still my friend even when he's my brother. But this isn't what the topic is about.

And NightmareX haven't posted in this topic at all. I don't know what the hell your rabbling about when he's not even in this topic.
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Off-topic. ~Weatherman

Thank you for making me to send a report of your accusing. Have fun.

EDIT: And MEGALOLS @ your reply there. You didn't even had a single word against what i saidLaughing. Now that's what i call for pwned in the face when you don't know what to answer back.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2009.06.09 00:53:00 - [52]
 

solo/very small gang, maelstrom rocks. RR gangs tempest or typhoon, typhoon gets better tank.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.06.09 00:57:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: AstroPhobic
Such as? I can't think of a single situation where the tempest would outshine either the typhoon or maelstrom. Zero.


Yeah, even the Typhoon is better at sucking than the Tempest...it really is a junk ship lol.

Vee Zee
Posted - 2009.06.09 00:59:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Electric Universe
\
NightmareX is still my friend even when he's my brother. But this isn't what the topic is about.



Please stop posting.

Thanks.


Traderboz
SlaveMart
Posted - 2009.06.09 01:04:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Traderboz on 09/06/2009 01:04:23
Quote:
Is this Sisi?.

He got 25 kills within 14 mins there.



I'm sure your proud Tri stomped MH (although c'mon, it's MH), but that proves absolutely nothing about the Tempest.

Although I find it kind of funny you want to throw that battle out there. I'm certainly not advocating ships be balanced around killmail damage, but if you actually flip through those kills, you'll notice the top person on just about every single kill mail is an Amarr or Gallente ship. I think I saw maybe one killmail with a Matari ship on top, and it was't you. The Minmatar ships are never on top, and usually closer to the bottom. Even on the small ships (BC's, HIC's, even the BB/Falcons), it looks like the Amarr/Gallente ships are the ones doing the damage. Embarassed

Props to Tri for winning that fight, but I'm not sure that proves anything about your Tempest's performance. Laughing

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.09 01:14:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 09/06/2009 01:29:47
Originally by: Vee Zee
Originally by: Electric Universe
\
NightmareX is still my friend even when he's my brother. But this isn't what the topic is about.



Please stop posting.

Thanks.



You toLaughing.
Originally by: Traderboz
Edited by: Traderboz on 09/06/2009 01:04:23
Quote:
Is this Sisi?.

He got 25 kills within 14 mins there.



I'm sure your proud Tri stomped MH (although c'mon, it's MH), but that proves absolutely nothing about the Tempest.

Although I find it kind of funny you want to throw that battle out there. I'm certainly not advocating ships be balanced around killmail damage, but if you actually flip through those kills, you'll notice the top person on just about every single kill mail is an Amarr or Gallente ship. I think I saw maybe one killmail with a Matari ship on top, and it was't you. The Minmatar ships are never on top, and usually closer to the bottom. Even on the small ships (BC's, HIC's, even the BB/Falcons), it looks like the Amarr/Gallente ships are the ones doing the damage. Embarassed

Props to Tri for winning that fight, but I'm not sure that proves anything about your Tempest's performance. Laughing

OMGRolling Eyes, it's not about getting on top of every killmails there you dumbass. It's about DOING A GOOD JOB IN THE SHIP.

It's not about having the highest e-peen stats on the ship and about getting 1st on the killmails.

It's all about having a ship that can do the job very effective and it's much more important to be in the fight than just having a goal to get 1st on every killmails.

Well ok, your goal is to have the highest stats so you have something to do e-peen of. And your 2nd goal is to get 1st on every killmail. That's fine to, because everyone is different in EVE.

But my goals are like i told over. The most important for me is to be in the fight to support my corp mates and to have a ship that can do a good job on what we are going to fight.

That's what's the most important things for me when i'm joining a gang.

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2009.06.09 01:30:00 - [57]
 

This thread obviously needs more trolling and/or unconstructive responses.

Electric whatever NMX's alt is seems to not get what Liang, Astro and Trader are trying to explain. The Tempest while still a battleship just isn't as good as other battleships.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.06.09 01:41:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Omarvelous
I've used assault frigs to tackle at low sec gates, but over time I've found it more effective having bigger ships which can fit a tank and throw on sensor boosters to lock quickly.


We found it was better to have them in small ships (T1 frigs work great for this) for making the initial tackle, and then letting the more experienced/SP'ed pilots take the damage role.

Quote:
I was also referring to neuts to keep people from burning AWAY from the gate - not towards. Honestly, I've just used them to shut down Hyperion tanks, and to burn away from tackle T2 cruisers.


Ah I see... I don't often see people burning away from the gate... it's almost always a better choice to burn to the gate. As for shutting down Hype tanks... yeah, i've used the Neuts to shut down active tanks before, but that generally happens when I'm out solo or in a suuupppeeeerrr small gang. I generally find that by the time the neuts would have made a difference (they generally have cap boosters unless you're hunting mission runners), either they have back up on the way or I had the time to hit them until they ran out of cap boosters.

Quote:
I dunno - I don't think the Minmatar BS suck, infact I don't think any race's BS suck ... Amarr laser boats are all around pretty damn good, but not flexible


I underlined the part that really hurts... exactly as I was saying earlier. Most of the time, the Minnie BS's are compared to whatever's "good" right now (currently, laser BS's, previously, Ravens and Throns). In almost all of the ways that are measureable, it really doesn't "do the job".

Thus, we come down to my two essential arguments against what you've put forward about versatility:
- In a cap boosted world, neuts are more useful than more DPS strictly in the case when you have all day to break their tank (and thus you could have run them out of cap boosters without their backup showing) or you're attempting to force an inty/"nano" HAC to disengage
- More DPS is virtually always a better option because 200 more DPS means you overcome their tank that much faster - hopefully fast enough to get out before their backup arrives! The old arguments for why people should fit plated Neutron throns apply here, and are perhaps even more true here than they were there.
- Battleships generally shouldn't be making primary tackle (even on gates), and thus the ability to get that tackle is generally overrated (IMO/E). The ability to hold and kill something that it has already engaged, however, is paramount.
- The ability to GTFO, I agree, would be nice if engagements with battleships tended to have less than 20 participants. Ad that scale, small agility and navigational bonuses are really quite weak.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't hate Minnie BS's. I think they make great oversized battlecruisers, and the phoon can really be awesome in RR gangs. But they're really not good battleships when compared to the other races.

Quote:
Caldari - Gank and Tank - not flexible


I'm not sure I agree with this... I tend to find Caldari to be the most flexible race.

-Liang

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.06.09 01:47:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: SuiJuris
This thread obviously needs more trolling and/or unconstructive responses.

Electric whatever NMX's alt is seems to not get what Liang, Astro and Trader are trying to explain. The Tempest while still a battleship just isn't as good as other battleships.

It's not good as other Battleships in some things yes, but the Tempest is still better than other BS'es at other things again.

That's why i'm saying that calling a Tempest for poor or anything like that ONLY because it doesn't perform so well in SOME things where other BS'es are a little better doesn't make it to a poor BS at all.

So if this is how you look at things, then i can say omg an Abaddon is really horrible at killing smaller ships inside web range. YEAH YEAH it suck really bad then. Yup, it stinks etc etc.

I can't really say an Abaddon is poor only because of that, because the Abaddon is pretty good at something else.

If we are going to tell how it is, then no BS'es are poor or crap. Because every of the BS'es have it's uses and are good where other BS'es are crap, and where the Blaster Mega for example are very good, there an Armageddon can be really horrible. And where the Blaster Mega are horrible, there the Armageddon is good.

You get the point yeah?.

Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.06.09 07:07:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
- I know that ships have different mineral costs, and my assumption is that this is what guides the Maelstrom and Rokh to cost ~10-15M less than the Abaddon/Rokh (on average). That said, the Abaddon does appear to be an anomalous point with prices being almost universally in excess of 140M.



Data point: from average-ish mineral prices in Minmatar space, we get the following perfect-build costs for tier 3 BS:

Abaddon 130M
Hyperion 129M
Maelstrom 107.5M
Rokh 117.5M

And I've found that threads improve immensely if I just skip over any posts by Electric Universe and NightmareX; I recommend doing the same. It's not like he has any credibility and/or reasonable points which need refuting. ugh


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