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blankseplocked [Proposal] Black Ops BONAR
 
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Zastrow J
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.06.02 16:38:00 - [31]
 

Think this through before dismissing it simply because I'm a goon. The range, cooldown, charge time, and whatever can all be decided later, all we're talking about in this thread is the concept of BONAR.

What do you have with a Black Ops battleship? You have an 800m isk hull which is about as effective in combat as a tech 1, 100m isk battleship, and will require more expensive fittings. For the extra three quarters of a billion isk you can slowboat faster cloaked, and use the covert portal generator. Obviously this isn't worth the increased cost. What do you consider the role of a blops bs? To be the flagship of a cloaking gang? A big slow battleship that can't warp cloaked just doesn't fit in with a recon gang. It does need an entirely new role.

Obviously any new mod that would potentially disable a cloaking device would have serious implications. This type of mod needs to have limits. Putting this type of module on a cheap disposable ship like a T2 frigate would make them ubiquitous. Putting the mod on an expensive T2 battleship keeps the module rare while giving a unique role to an otherwise underpowered ship. We're talking about the broad concept here and not specific stats, so feel free to discuss other limitations such a mod should have, like what range it should have, skill req's, or cooldown time.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.06.02 16:43:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 02/06/2009 16:43:41
Originally by: Zastrow J


Obviously any new mod that would potentially disable a cloaking device would have serious implications. This type of mod needs to have limits. Putting this type of module on a cheap disposable ship like a T2 frigate would make them ubiquitous. Putting the mod on an expensive T2 battleship keeps the module rare while giving a unique role to an otherwise underpowered ship. We're talking about the broad concept here and not specific stats, so feel free to discuss other limitations such a mod should have, like what range it should have, skill req's, or cooldown time.


Putting a BONAR on any ship would be a huge boost to gate camps, particularly those with bubbles. They will become standard equipment for all camps, mostly eliminating the ability of even covert and recon ships to slip through.


Bubble prevents warp, BONAR decloaks... all over.

Heartstone
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.06.02 16:44:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Zastrow J

(Portalling is cool but difficult/rarely used and more of a gimmick, similar to clone vats)


In case you were wondering this is the point when I stopped reading.


Zastrow J
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.06.02 16:52:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 02/06/2009 16:43:41

Putting a BONAR on any ship would be a huge boost to gate camps, particularly those with bubbles. They will become standard equipment for all camps, mostly eliminating the ability of even covert and recon ships to slip through.


Bubble prevents warp, BONAR decloaks... all over.


We thought about this. Pringlescan suggested a firing time similar to a titan's DD, 10 seconds or whatever. And really do you honestly think a billion isk uninsurable T2 battleship is going to be standard equipment on gatecamps? God I hope so. Baiting and setting traps to kill such an expensive ship would be awesome.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2009.06.02 17:30:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Heartstone
Originally by: Zastrow J

(Portalling is cool but difficult/rarely used and more of a gimmick, similar to clone vats)


In case you were wondering this is the point when I stopped reading.




Yup

Ahz
Posted - 2009.06.02 18:24:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Zastrow J
Obviously this isn't worth the increased cost.
Cost arguments in Eve are problematic at best. The game continually generates ISK and characters live forever. Large corps are turning out Titans on a weekly basis.

The only true metric of whether or not something is useful or correctly valued is whether or not people use it. BO adoption is low but slowly growing. The ship has the correct feature set. It needs simple additions to support it's role: Fuel bay, etc...

BONAR is a new role for a new ship.

Hyrieus
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.06.02 23:50:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Heartstone
Originally by: Zastrow J

(Portalling is cool but difficult/rarely used and more of a gimmick, similar to clone vats)


In case you were wondering this is the point when I stopped reading.




I wasn't, thanks though.

Oam Mkoll
Caldari
Stealth Squad
Posted - 2009.06.03 06:35:00 - [38]
 

I'm afraid that from that point on every gang would be expected to have 6 of the BONARs to fire them repeatedly, kinda like the anti-tackle DDD on standby to rescue other titans. Besides it's a counter for cloaked campers which is impossible to counter. Sorry, nice idea but can't support it.

Mos7Wan7ed
Gallente
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Posted - 2009.06.03 07:03:00 - [39]
 

the current usage and current price is not a good enough reason to put a mod like this on a ship like that.

sure even the hint that ccp would allow you to put a titan dd on it for the next patch and you'll see every last BOBS sold in under and hour. doesn't mean its a good idea to allow them to have titan dd fitted to them.

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.06.03 14:41:00 - [40]
 

If not on a Black Ops, some kind of Covert Jump Portal compatible destroyer (another ship class that needs lovin)

Shadow Devourer
Posted - 2009.06.03 15:00:00 - [41]
 

Great idea - supported.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.06.03 16:14:00 - [42]
 

Not supported. I have several characters that fly nothing but covert ops and recons, and while I spend the majority of the time watching my screen, and while the OP suggested the sonar to have a limited range.. sure I could warp to a SS and stay cloaked and be 'safe'. I still don't like the idea of having a tool to de-cloak ships, in general, at all.

Perma-cloaking isn't godmode. It has counter-measures, and recons are squishy. It's main strength is the harrassment-tool it brings; i.e. just sitting there for hours, disturbing people.

If something anti-cloaky needs to be introduced, it should go towards non-covert ops ships (minus supercaps, who'd fly supercaps but huge alliances if they had to hug a POS nonstop). Not something that strikes cloaking overall.

Not supported.

Juliter
Minmatar
The Drunk Brigade
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2009.06.03 17:13:00 - [43]
 

remove the cynosural field lvl 5 req for covert cyno field generator(lvl 4 will be fine) and boost the cpu and pg of BO ships...pheraps give em some EW bonus like recon ships and cover ops cloaking....

Nova Soldier
Caldari
ROMANIA Renegades
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2009.06.03 17:28:00 - [44]
 

Hell yeah.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.06.04 05:17:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 04/06/2009 05:19:08
Excellent idea!

Put up large warp disruption fields all over the gate, have a couple of black ops BONAR ships around, and there's absolutely no way anyone is getting through that gate camp.

Brilliant!

But foolish, as this will reduce territory warfare in nullsec down to gatecamps. POS bashing would just be cleanup work.


NickSuccorso
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.06.04 06:39:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 04/06/2009 05:19:08
Excellent idea!

Put up large warp disruption fields all over the gate, have a couple of black ops BONAR ships around, and there's absolutely no way anyone is getting through that gate camp.

Brilliant!

But foolish, as this will reduce territory warfare in nullsec down to gatecamps. POS bashing would just be cleanup work.




Yes, because nobody fits a Microwarpdrive in 0.0. If you go with the idea that the module has to take some time to spool up, I don't see any reason why any COCD equipped ships shouldn't escape from that so called un-passable camp. Hell, non COCD ships using standard cloaks should be able to also. Personally, I think it'd be ****in great to come up on a gang of Black Ops BS on a gate surrounded by a bunch of bubbles, like in the scenario you suggest. That'd be an awful expensive camp to lose.

McFly
Peanut Factory
Posted - 2009.06.04 08:17:00 - [47]
 

Decloaking Burst Sounds Awesome to me, although it would require a lot of work on CCP's part as they've previously stated when a ship is cloaked in the eve engine it basically doesn't exist until something hits it. So maybe some sort of way to use this module to trigger the automatic decloak from objects.

Also the BONAR, is a little more tactical, due to not wanting to decloak your own forces with it. But it wouldn't be too hard to use 2 BO's one with Bonar and BO Cyno, other with the bridge and stealth bombers next door.

But does sound promising, I'd use one just to hunt those cloaking ratters all over 0.0, you know the ones that cloak in the belt just as you land and ur not sure if they are to the left or slightly up or... DAMMMIT!!!!

Tsubutai
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.06.04 09:32:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: NickSuccorso
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 04/06/2009 05:19:08
Excellent idea!

Put up large warp disruption fields all over the gate, have a couple of black ops BONAR ships around, and there's absolutely no way anyone is getting through that gate camp.

Brilliant!

But foolish, as this will reduce territory warfare in nullsec down to gatecamps. POS bashing would just be cleanup work.




Yes, because nobody fits a Microwarpdrive in 0.0. If you go with the idea that the module has to take some time to spool up, I don't see any reason why any COCD equipped ships shouldn't escape from that so called un-passable camp. Hell, non COCD ships using standard cloaks should be able to also. Personally, I think it'd be ****in great to come up on a gang of Black Ops BS on a gate surrounded by a bunch of bubbles, like in the scenario you suggest. That'd be an awful expensive camp to lose.


If it can't catch cloaky ships at a gate, how exactly would it be useful? I don't like this idea because it seems that either it instantly kills the utility of COCD ships or its a useless gimmick.

Spyra Gryra
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
Posted - 2009.06.04 11:45:00 - [49]
 

The Spyra Gryra supports this. You are a wonderful man.

Grann Thefauto
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.06.04 17:34:00 - [50]
 

No we don't need decloaking. Cloaking is one of the only legitimate anti-blob tactics.

Slave 2739FKZ
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.04 17:52:00 - [51]
 

original idea

NickSuccorso
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.06.04 18:37:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: NickSuccorso on 04/06/2009 18:37:22
Quote:
If it can't catch cloaky ships at a gate, how exactly would it be useful? I don't like this idea because it seems that either it instantly kills the utility of COCD ships or its a useless gimmick.


Who said that it can't at least aid in catching cloaked ships?

Mr Laden
Posted - 2009.06.05 11:37:00 - [53]
 

first FIX the blackops by giving it more love to the seperate fuel bay.

And is this guy REALLY in a CSM delegate? OMG

Tobruk
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.06.05 14:11:00 - [54]
 

Quote:
BONAR



supported

Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence

Posted - 2009.06.05 14:31:00 - [55]
 

Smile

Kralin Ignatov
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Posted - 2009.06.05 17:21:00 - [56]
 

although i like the idea of this module, i do not think it is needed to reinvent the Black Ops.

Black Ops has great potential, just needs more buffing from ccp to be truly effective.

However, the module is a good idea. Perhaps a chance for a t2 tier 2 Battlecruiser?

Big Bit
Posted - 2009.06.05 18:51:00 - [57]
 

I would lower the radius to 20 km and have it not be able to decloak gate cloaks.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.06.05 19:00:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Big Bit
I would lower the radius to 20 km and have it not be able to decloak gate cloaks.


The gate cloak thing wouldn't help at all. Just wait for the cov ops to leave gate cloak, enter their own cloak, then decloak them as they slow-boat out of the bubble and they all die.

Big Bit
Posted - 2009.06.05 19:07:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
The gate cloak thing wouldn't help at all. Just wait for the cov ops to leave gate cloak, enter their own cloak, then decloak them as they slow-boat out of the bubble and they all die.
No, that meant to save you from lag death or give you time to look what is around you. I want to see mine death, not to wake up in station, knowing nothing.

DCBomB
Gallente
Eventhoriz0r
Posted - 2009.06.06 06:42:00 - [60]
 

I think that if it's implemented, we could assume that it won't affect gate cloaks weather we want it to or not.


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