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blankseplocked *** New Style Of Low Sec PVP Missions ***
 
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Cuchulain Spartan
Posted - 2009.06.01 19:05:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 02/06/2009 13:45:40

As a hi sec lvl 4 Mission Runner I regularly grind away in a safe easy boring environment so that I can take this easily earned Isk and funnel it into low sec where my PVP character lives. I would welcome a completely new PVP Mission style implementation in low sec that would allow me to continue earning an income but while doing so closer to my low sec home and in my PVP ships.

So what follows are my thoughts (a little out there) on creating a totally new low sec mission system based on 1 vs 1 PVP style of ships, skillpoints, rules and tactics. This should appeal to both Mission Runners and Pirates providing sufficient incentive for both groups while still allowing Mission Runners to be Mission Runners and Pirates to be Pirates.

Its hard to explain it but what I’m aiming for are missions that are 1 Player vs 1 NPC up to a maximum of 1 Player vs 3 NPC. This match up should provide you a tough challenge but allow you to complete the mission in 5-15 mins and still limp away somewhat intact.

And Yes, I know people will figure out exploits in my suggestions right of the bat and punch holes in the ideas but feel free to flame the ideas below, just try to at least be constructive in your flaming and offer a valid alternative to my ideas, pros and cons etc.

Have a read and let me know what you think, there’s a lot to read but I’ve tried not making it a wall of text.

I Propose This

Time:
Missions need to be short in low sec 5-15 mins max. Sitting still in a mission for any longer is certain death to being probed out. Reducing time means making mission rats weaker or having a lot less of them. I suggest a handful of mission rats that can be taking out in the 5-15 mins solo using a PVP fit ship.

Rewards:
The rewards need to be much higher than current hi sec, if not then people wont mission in low sec. The reward should be gotten for handing in the mission, not via rat bounty. This prevents Pirates from killing the rats in mission and taking your Isk. Only you get the Isk when the mission is turned in.

Poding:
There should be a big disincentive to Poding in the mission areas in these PVP low sec missions. If Poding occurs on a regular basis then mission runners will stop missioning due to lost implants. Concord can’t intervene as it is low sec and there is no Concord presence, -5.00 sec standing or lower Pirates won’t care about sec standing hits so some other disincentive is needed. A significant faction hit from the mission faction being run and/or a 50-100mil immediate wallet penalty from the Pirates wallets should prevent Pirates from Poding in the mission area. Poding outside the area is fine as per usual low sec rules. Traveling to/from the mission follows low sec rules aswell.

Travel Distance:
All missions should spawn within a 1-2 system radius of the agent. This introduces and element of risk for via traveling but not so severe a risk while still allowing Pirates a chance to catch the Mission Runner.

Accepting Missions:
It should be possible to convo your Agent from in space (within 1-2 low jumps of your agents home) and accept your mission. This will prevent the camping of a single system or station by Pirates but still keeps you nearby for them to track and scan you down.

Turning In Missions:
It should be possible to convo your Agent from in space (within 1-2 low jumps of your agents home) and turn in your mission. This will prevent the camping of a single system or station by Pirates but still keeps you nearby for them to track and scan you down.

Cancel/Refuse Mission:
This should need to be done fact to face with your agent.


Cuchulain Spartan
Posted - 2009.06.01 19:06:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 01/06/2009 19:19:09

Mission System Location:
Your mission should spawn in the system that you convo your agent from. This hopefully gives you a head start on the mission but still allows Pirates to find you in a 1-2 system radius. A maximum of 1-3 missions should be allowed per hour per system convo i.e. you can’t sit in the same system and mission there all day long, you have to move after 1-2 missions in the same system. This gives Pirates a chance to catch you in transit and prevents them from camping the Agents station. Choosing a mission while docked in your Agents system will generates a random system location as per current game mechanics

Mission Types:
All the missions should be PVP, none of this courier/hauling nonsense. They should be simple “find the bad guy and kill him”.

Mission Gates:
All mission areas should have gates to prevent farming/ganking via a capital or fighter support (except for a lvl 5 equivalent mission). They should also be locked to anyone but the Mission Runner. To unlock them for the purpose of Pirating the Pirate will need to probe out the Mission Runners ship. Once the ship is found (100%), the Pirates scanner receives an electronic key that allows the Pirate to open the gate. This key allows the Pirate to use the mission gate. Only 1 Pirate ship is allowed in via the gate and the electronic key gets used up once the Pirate activates the mission gate. Only a Pirate ship of equal hull class/tech is allowed enter. So if the Mission Runner is using a t2 Cruiser then the pirate can only enter in a t2 Cruiser or a weaker ship.

Agro:
NPC agro should be on the Mission Runner. If a Pirate enters the area then a large % of agro automatically shifts onto the Pirate instantly for a limited amount of time and after this time has passed the NPC agro evens out between the Mission Runner and Pirate until only 1 player remains.

Mission Damage:
The damage output from the mission rats should be omni damage. Omni tank will make getting jumped a little safer for the runner while making it fairer to enter in to PVP.

Ship Type/Fittings Player:
It should be possible to run each mission in approx 5-15 mins using a ship that is unrigged. Using t1/t2 mods should be sufficient. This reduces the cost of getting into the mission business, makes it more accessible to everyone and reduces the risk of Mission Runners suffering serious losses from Pirate Attacks.

Ship Type/Fittings NPC:
The mission rats should mainly use player ships and fittings, none of this faction ships with their own rules. These ships should be fitted exactly the same as a regular PVP ship and should follow the same rules a players does e.g. NOS, ECM, dps, cap limitations, ammo limitations, should be identical to the same ship and fittings flown by a regular player.

MWD:
Micro warp drives should be allowed in the mission area, it’s an essential part of PVP. If they are not allowed in missions areas then prevent any ship with one fitted from entering the mission area.

Loot Drop:
These should be very minimal so as not to affect the market.

Mission PVP SP Rating:
I think all players should have more than 1 group/type of overall skillpoints. So for this I propose a “Mission PVP SP Rating”. This would follow the same principle as the current Certificate system. You get assigned a “Mission PVP SP Rating” dependant on your total relevant skillpoints towards the different ship classes. You are rated on a scale of 1 to 10 in your ability to fly and use all ship classes based on your skillpoints that are directly applicable to that particular class. The higher the level of your “Mission PVP SP Rating” then the harder the opponent your Agent will put you against.



Cuchulain Spartan
Posted - 2009.06.01 19:06:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 01/06/2009 19:21:35

The Missions in General:
When you take a mission the agent should instantly check your “Mission PVP SP Rating”. After this you should be required to choose the ship type that you will bring into the mission area, so for example you choose a T1 Cruiser as your ship of choice. Based on your ship choice and your “Mission PVP SP Rating” the Agent will run an equation that comes up with a suitable NPC adversary. So if you are flying a Thorax with 10mil SP in relevant “Mission PVP SP Rating” then the agent will put you up against another t1 cruiser of equivalent SP, or 2 frigates (1 mil SP each) and a Tier 1 cruisers (6 mil SP) etc etc

Cuchulain Spartan
Posted - 2009.06.01 19:07:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 01/06/2009 19:21:48

Reserved

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2009.06.02 05:49:00 - [5]
 

I like this idea. I'd add that the mission NPC would also attempt to flee if he's losing the fight. So you would have to put a point on him and keep it there to keep him from warping off (thus failing the mission). Along with this could be a different way of finding said npc. Instead of being given the bm by the agent, you could be given only a system and told to probe him out. Given restrictions on expanded probe launchers, core probes should be able to find the site he's at.

I'd set the bounty at 0 isk and have no loot drop (save for maybe ammo and cap boosters). Isk would come from a large mission reward. For a high end BS level mission, maybe something along the lines of 30M isk and 20k LP. The key for this not to become total farming however is to have them be truly difficult and risky. The npc would need to feature full tackle and use drones just like players. In a 1vs1 basis, they should be able to spank a poorly prepared or fitted player's ship. You should also receive little or no intel on what you will be facing. So you can't do the standard pve thing of fitting specific active hardeners. I don't like the sleeper style omni damage idea. I'd prefer true player ship rules where a mega does kin/therm only (except maybe explosive drones). Instead of omni-damage mega's, make it so the mission runner doesn't know it's a mega until he get's there and is warp scrambled.

The faction standing hit for podding a mission runner on such a mission is certainly a good idea too. I love my corpse collection but there does need to be some reasonable penalty to podding someone. Applying the sec status hit to corp standing would be a good solution. I wouldn't do faction as that can create massive problems like unrecoverable standings. Corp standing can atleast be recovered by running missions for a different corp in the same faction.

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.06.02 06:14:00 - [6]
 

This is easily one of the more terrible, though admittedly better written, ideas about "boosting" low sec (even though in reality it only boosts carebearism to an absurd degree.) Most low sec systems are either empty or extremely unpopulated. Making missions that take 5-15 minutes and pay more than level 4's is a free ISK button that poses little if any more risk (and in some ways less risk) than high sec missions.

And of course the target NPCs would be prenerfed. You can't replicate actual PvPer behavior in NPCs (they tried and mostly failed with Sleepers), and people will simply not run these missions if they get too hard. If CCP were to implement this idea with the goal of getting people to Low Sec they'd have to make it easy enough for a moderately skilled player to be successful at it.

Ausser
Bubba Gump ORE Corp.
Posted - 2009.06.02 07:33:00 - [7]
 

Your concept could be called 'Olympic Games Of EVE'.

It's just another battleground attempt. In this case, it's a 'Hello Kitty Online' edition.

You could move it into high sec and just turn off concorde within the mission.

Commoner
Caldari
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.06.02 08:26:00 - [8]
 

Although your idea has merit, changing the way missions work in lowsec, i think you're making them too rewarding.

What i would rather want would be level 4 missions doable in smaller ships...same length, but requiring for example a cruiser or an AF.

That way, with having the same payout as regular level 4 missions you'd have diffrent level 4 missions for people who decide to settle lowsec.

Joss Sparq
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.06.02 10:49:00 - [9]
 

Well written post, I applaud it - but sadly I must specify only for it being well written.

Otherwise, your idea is horrible. I registered my first bodily cringe at:
Originally by: Cuchulain Spartan
Missions need to be short in low sec 5-15 mins max. Sitting still in a mission for any longer is certain death to being probed out.
I think at this point, it was clearly going to go down hill - the angle of which not so much being a gentle slope but rather more of a plunging descent into madness.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2009.06.02 11:54:00 - [10]
 

Most lvl4's take only 5-15 minutes anyways, that actually isn't a change. Blockade is the longest mission I know of and it takes a whole of maybe 20 minutes if you don't loot.

Gentle Behn
Perkone
Posted - 2009.06.02 12:09:00 - [11]
 

So basically you want ccp to hold your hand while you make isk in Low sec? Well i have Care on one cheek and Bear on the other. And i still think thats this well thought out idea is a poor one for the games cred.

Maybe just more lowsec mission agents would prevent the camped agent problem. And allow you the lowsec pve your after. Or just hit anomally's and keep your ship aligned to warp at something in your over view. Although i guess that might be a problem if your ship needs to think about ranges Laughing

Spamming Caldary Missile Mission Runner signing out

Cuchulain Spartan
Posted - 2009.06.02 13:32:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 02/06/2009 13:43:22

Originally by: Dirk Magnum
This is easily one of the more terrible, though admittedly better written, ideas about "boosting" low sec (even though in reality it only boosts carebearism to an absurd degree.) Most low sec systems are either empty or extremely unpopulated. Making missions that take 5-15 minutes and pay more than level 4's is a free ISK button that poses little if any more risk (and in some ways less risk) than high sec missions.


I'm, not looking to boosts carebearism to an absurd degree. What I wrote is mearly a jumping off point for a discussion. If things need to be made more Pirate friendly and less Carebeary then I'm all for it but trying to strike that fine line that keeps everyone happy is tough. The current low sec mission mechanic is broken IMO so a change is needed. You need something a little bit Carebear friendly to get the Carebears into low sec.


Originally by: Dirk Magnum
And of course the target NPCs would be prenerfed. You can't replicate actual PvPer behavior in NPCs (they tried and mostly failed with Sleepers), and people will simply not run these missions if they get too hard.


I agree, the new AI would be tough to code, trying to match human PVP still has a lot of variables. Sleeper AI IMO wasnt a huge step forward. All they did was make then very tough and do a lot of damage while shifting agro everynow and then.


Originally by: Dirk Magnum
If CCP were to implement this idea with the goal of getting people to Low Sec they'd have to make it easy enough for a moderately skilled player to be successful at it.


The easy and more appealing it is then the more lower skilled players it should attract. As I said, the mission dificulty should be decided based on your "Mission PVP SP Rating" thus making it more challenging as your skills increase.


Originally by: Ausser
Your concept could be called 'Olympic Games Of EVE'.

It's just another battleground attempt. In this case, it's a 'Hello Kitty Online' edition.

You could move it into high sec and just turn off concorde within the mission.


Yup, it looks like that but its not what I'm aiming for. Some tweaks should prevent 'Olympic Games Of EVE'. Having hi sec battlegrounds would also be nice. It would let Carebears dip their toes in PVP in a safer environment than low sec hopefully resulting in more wanting to live in low sec.


Originally by: Joss Sparq
Otherwise, your idea is horrible. I registered my first bodily cringe at:
Originally by: Cuchulain Spartan
Missions need to be short in low sec 5-15 mins max. Sitting still in a mission for any longer is certain death to being probed out.
I think at this point, it was clearly going to go down hill - the angle of which not so much being a gentle slope but rather more of a plunging descent into madness.


I'd gladly see the time and difficulty increase to get both sides onboard.


Originally by: Gentle Behn
So basically you want ccp to hold your hand while you make isk in Low sec? Well i have Care on one cheek and Bear on the other. And i still think thats this well thought out idea is a poor one for the games cred.


No hold handing, I make plenty of Isk nice and safe in hi sec. I also make some pretty decent isk in low/null space. I want CCP not to hold peoples hands but maybe a finger or two, just enough to coax them into low sec until they realise that it aint all that bad. What better way to motivate than with lots of Isk while still providing a challenge.




Cuchulain Spartan
Posted - 2009.06.02 13:43:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 02/06/2009 13:44:43

Originally by: Commoner
What i would rather want would be level 4 missions doable in smaller ships...same length, but requiring for example a cruiser or an AF.


I like this idea. Smaller cheaper faster more nimble ships make the risk a lot less than what it currently is from an Isk loss point of view. That should promote more players with lower skills and smaller wallets to participate. Plus its easier to turn and run in a small ship if things go south.



CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2009.06.02 15:33:00 - [14]
 

Moved to Features & Ideas.

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2009.06.02 15:49:00 - [15]
 

You have new pvp style npc's to kill already there called sleepers.


Cuchulain Spartan
Posted - 2009.06.02 16:54:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Rip Minner
You have new pvp style npc's to kill already there called sleepers.




Popping Wormhole Sleepers and encouraging more of the Eve community into running low sec missions are two totally seperate concepts.

Marzaris Onbarny
Posted - 2009.06.03 16:24:00 - [17]
 

First off your suggesting a huge change to pvp. a 100 mil redux in the podder wallet? why would they not send all there money to an alt first? Point being EVE is not meant to be safe. look at highsec. Goonswarms youtube video of there high sec hulk destruction was proof enough of that. Eve is about the griefers.

I dont pvp much, and when I do it tends to be in larger fleet situations but low sec and nul sec are about over powering the weaker forces. Make the missions short so we can compplete them without danger of being probbed, make the rewards on mission complettion so the pritates cannot kill the last guy and force you to decline the mission (if missing special loot) or give a direct penality to the podders? let alone the idea of giving MORE rewards for easier faster missions?

No I think the agent st up and greater lp and payout rewards is enough. If you dont want to fly missions in low sec don't. I dont I think its to risky solo.

But for the games sake dont ty to change the very basic nature of the game. You can choose to kil anyone thats the beauty. You might get concorded or podded in the attempt but in eve its your right to make that decision.

low sec mission running is as intended, there is no need to change.

Ghoststalker01
Posted - 2009.06.05 12:02:00 - [18]
 

So what your saying, essentially, is that you want to make lowsec missions easier than highsec one, with better rewards that cant be taken from you, with next to no risk of being ganked?

Elroth
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2009.06.05 12:40:00 - [19]
 

high sec should be for new players, trade, research and manufacturing and to some degree mining.
to be honest i think all missions higher then level 2 should be in low sec.
if you get harassed doing the missions in low sec. adept. make friends. form alliances with other missions runners to make it safer.
it can work. just ask anyone living in Irmalin



 

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