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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2009.06.13 03:28:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Bunyip
CCP seem to be in the opinion of fixing one major topic per patch while adding some new content, and I think this is the way to go. Scanning was revamped in Apocrypha, and 0.0 sovereignty will be revamped SOON (TM). Mining and corporate management need a fix about as much as FW does, so there is hope for an eventual recreation of the activity.

Really should go back to some of the first topics regarding FW and the CSM. CCP was getting feedback on FW before it even hit Singularity (the RP community was watching its development closely).

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.14 08:26:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/06/2009 10:09:10
Originally by: Raimo

Hmm. 0.0 can have a couple of reinforced nodes that support hundreds of players (or a thousand?) fighting. Can FW have *ONE* such node to itself? All we would need is 5-15 systems that can support 50 players fighting after all... Not asking much is it?



I.e 0.0 can have 1-2 reinforced nodes, can we have 5-15. Rolling Eyes

From what I get there is a very limited number of reinforced nodes.

Reinforcing them require to dedicate 1 single node to a system during DT.
What you are asking is to dedicate 5-15 (so all of those available and even more) of them permanently to FW when it is not even granted they will be sued.

Look the blog about reinforced nodes. If the CEO of a corp/alliance ask for them and then the battle don't happen he will be put on probation and his further request of node reinforcing will not be accepted.
It is not something that it is done lightly. Reinforcing a node is a major drain of server resources. Every reinforced node is 10-20 or more system that need to be moved to other nodes. 15 reinforced nodes mean 200-300 systems that need to find space on other, already burdened, nodes.


Originally by: Sappho Ajhannis
Battles in 0.0 are admittedly easier to predict. But larger FW fleet battles do often take place in only a handful of sytems. So bring the fights to where the servers can cope - If systems x y and z are known to have more server-side resources made available, people will go to x y and z to have their lag-free FW fleet fights. Not to mention pirates and other low-sec dwellers who might like a lag-free environment.



Originally by: Nephilim Xeno
95% of all fights in FW always happen in the same systems anyway and there arent that many of them

also comparing this huge 0.0 blobs to FW is just stupid, i already stated we would never need that many hamsters than 0.0 does



And again we get to the same point: reinforce system X, y, Z for Amarr/Minmatar plus x1, y1, z1 for Gallente/Caldari = 6 reinforced nodes. More than what 0.0 get in a day (based on my knowledge, I can be wrong) and with the hope some fight will happen in those systems.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.14 09:00:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: David Caldera
Quote:
With exclamations of "All 3 FW problems that was mentioned are very serious and must be brought up now" (and similarly demanding language was used in the issues themselves) it does look to me like FW pilots feel their part of the game deserves more attention that others. You might not feel that way, and maybe even the poster didnt intend it that way (in which case he/she should rephrase their request), but to me it reads like someone insisting that their demands are heard now.
You may be right, but that's not the general attitude most Fw players adopt when it comes to the whole issue. (Though I must admit the forum is a cesspool that might give a totally different impression) I apoligise if anything I said so far implied a "want now" attitude to the issue, just so we're clear there. =)



The problem is that FW players stance, as a group, seem to be "We want this fixed now, before any other problem, CCP should know what the problem is, it is impossible they don't know what is the problem and how to fix it. They are not fixing it to spite us."

So yes, when they appear to campaign to get all CCP to work for them they get stonewalled by people with other interests.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.14 10:27:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

I'm not denying that, I'm just saying that nothing important will get affected. 0.0 and whatever still retain the same amount of resources, but things like COMBAT SIMULATORS which everyone hated would have gotten scrapped. Please re-read the example until you understand it.


Make that Mining, Industry, smoother UI, ecc., ecc.

Using something that has already been scrapped is simply using a straw target.

Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.06.14 15:39:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre on 14/06/2009 15:41:38
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 14/06/2009 10:09:10
Originally by: Raimo

Hmm. 0.0 can have a couple of reinforced nodes that support hundreds of players (or a thousand?) fighting. Can FW have *ONE* such node to itself? All we would need is 5-15 systems that can support 50 players fighting after all... Not asking much is it?



I.e 0.0 can have 1-2 reinforced nodes, can we have 5-15. Rolling Eyes

From what I get there is a very limited number of reinforced nodes.

Reinforcing them require to dedicate 1 single node to a system during DT.
What you are asking is to dedicate 5-15 (so all of those available and even more) of them permanently to FW when it is not even granted they will be sued.

Look the blog about reinforced nodes. If the CEO of a corp/alliance ask for them and then the battle don't happen he will be put on probation and his further request of node reinforcing will not be accepted.
It is not something that it is done lightly. Reinforcing a node is a major drain of server resources. Every reinforced node is 10-20 or more system that need to be moved to other nodes. 15 reinforced nodes mean 200-300 systems that need to find space on other, already burdened, nodes.



Think you're not understanding what's being asked for here. It's not "Give us 1 Reinforced Node Per FW System that we think there might be a fight happening in at some point today as we cannot reliably predict exactly where the fight may occur" it's "Can you dedicate Standard Nodes to specifically handle the FW Area's ONLY?"

For example, say a node can handle 20-30 Systems under normal Circumstances. At the moment, you never know whether the node you're on also happens to support the Likes of Dodixie / Motsu / Oursulaert / Rens etc. Instead, we're asking for Dedicated Nodes (Note: These would be Standard Nodes Permanently devoted to a Specific Set of Systems rather than Reinforced Nodes where it's Dedicated to only a Single System) where the 20-30 supported systems are ALL FW Systems with no chance of having to compete with Non-FW systems for Node resources.

So, the same number of systems are supported by each Node as before, it's just the Type of Systems that are different. This would also Mean Non-FW Areas wouldn't have to compete with FW Areas for Node Resources either.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.15 08:33:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 15/06/2009 08:37:32
Edit: Some spelling and grammar.

Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre

Think you're not understanding what's being asked for here. It's not "Give us 1 Reinforced Node Per FW System that we think there might be a fight happening in at some point today as we cannot reliably predict exactly where the fight may occur" it's "Can you dedicate Standard Nodes to specifically handle the FW Area's ONLY?"


Point taken.


Originally by: Gabriel Darkefyre

For example, say a node can handle 20-30 Systems under normal Circumstances. At the moment, you never know whether the node you're on also happens to support the Likes of Dodixie / Motsu / Oursulaert / Rens etc. Instead, we're asking for Dedicated Nodes (Note: These would be Standard Nodes Permanently devoted to a Specific Set of Systems rather than Reinforced Nodes where it's Dedicated to only a Single System) where the 20-30 supported systems are ALL FW Systems with no chance of having to compete with Non-FW systems for Node resources.

So, the same number of systems are supported by each Node as before, it's just the Type of Systems that are different. This would also Mean Non-FW Areas wouldn't have to compete with FW Areas for Node Resources either.


I think you misunderstood how nodes work and are allocated. Motsu (for what I know) has his node, like Jita. Maybe another couple of heavy load systems have that, so you are not sharing nodes with extremely busy systems.

Node allocation is done on the basis of average usage in the last days and common numbers spikes.
Part of FW problem is that for most of the day the number of average users in system is low, with some high spike, so part of your problem could be that you share nodes with average usage system and when you get a spike in presences you get lag.

Dedicating some nodes only to FW won't resolve the problem (I think) as those systems will be hit by the spike in the number of concurrent users all at the same time. Your fleets in being, your fleet in combat and your reinforcement will be there all at the same time on a limited number of nodes, so you risk to get all the FW system lagging at the same time. Probably it would work better to get you to share your nodes with seldom used 0.0 systems.

I think CCP has checked that but a doubt I often have reading how lag/desync work for FW wars is that the problem is somewhere in the sec/faction standing hit mechanism.
Your fights start with no or reasonable lag but they degenerate very fast. So it seem something that build up during the fight, more than what happen during a "normal" fight.

As the big difference in a FW fight is that the players will be losing standing with the other faction every time they attack a ship in one of the militias and that require one or more extra check than in normal fights.

It would be interesting to try a fleet fight with the same ships/people on the Singularity server while they are in the militia and while they are not in it to see if the difference is in that.

That could explain the small periods of grace too, as (from what I recall) there have been small changes in the faction standing hit system during those periods.


Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.06.15 09:17:00 - [97]
 

That'll teach me to post with an incomplete Understanding of how the Node System Works.

I knew Jita had it's own Node permanently assigned to it, wasn't sure about the other major hubs of the game though.

I'm guessing that you're right though. If it were as simple as reconfiguring which systems were handled by each particular Node, this would have been solved Months Ago. It's most likely something conflicting within some ancient piece of code that really shouldn't have any effect on Combat, as you said, the Standings Decreases with the opposing Corporation for shooting enemy Pilots seems to be the most obvious place to look first.

Personally, I'm guessing it'll be something daft like a Misplaced Comma in the Code for some obscure Part of the Game that has nothing to do with FW at all. So, a proverbial Needle in a Haystack to find.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2009.06.15 22:44:00 - [98]
 

Rather depressing. After all this time and effort by many people we will press CCP for...hull repair drones (/facepalms)

FW has been left to die since its release for all intents and puproses and this is FINE.
The FW players would like a bit of LOVE but we can do without.

We don't like the HATE we're getting. Since the intention for fixes was released by CCP (what was it ? six months ago ?) they have actually BROKEN vital FW stuff.

My pet hate => Cloaked plexing : This has been the death blow to the PVE part of FW. At least it put it out of its misery.

I ask the CSM to ask CCP to just give fixing the problems they've caused SINCE they announced they would improve FW a high priority.
Forget about the lag and further development of FW. We FW players don't ask for much.

Nephilim Xeno
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.06.15 23:19:00 - [99]
 

who needs lagless battles and fixes to broken mechanics when we can have hull rep drones instead !!

Council of Stellar Mismanagement

Issler Dainze
Minmatar
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
Posted - 2009.06.16 04:52:00 - [100]
 

Hey! Its time for hull tankers to get some love! Seriously voted for it but hull rep drones are not something I think are going to make Eve any better.

Issler

RedSplat
Posted - 2009.06.16 22:58:00 - [101]
 

When quoting statistics about the numbers of individuals involved in FW it is far more usefull to consider those whom are actually active- and by this i do NOT simply mean those whom log on and play the game but those that take an active role in FW features; be that fighting the militia directly or even Roleplaying.

FW is in reality one facet of EVE. One of many.

I totally understand that some of you have legitimate interests in FW and raise valid issues it has, but the CSM is not a body solely dedicated to improving Factional Warfare.

Railing at the CSM for not continuous raising an issue acknowledge by CCP previously and documented on the forums since by Devs. accomplishes nothing; aside likely re-inforcing the emerging negative steryotypes of the contributions those involved with FW have made and are trying to make to Game Dev.

Further, raising issues that are not solely connected and pertaining to FW but are things that need to be looked at by CCP in the wider game and failing to acknowledge, realize and or address this is miring your own cause somewhat. The recent CSM minutes make for interesting reading in this regard.


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