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Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2009.05.31 14:56:00 - [181]
 

Edited by: Exlegion on 31/05/2009 15:29:17
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
The addition of more *high sec* level four agents (and the fact that the majority of them are caldari FFS) is just disgusting.

This is the best solution that the entireity of the dev team can come up with? In a thread started by CCP Nozh asking what needed the most fixing about the game there was a very large number of posts pointing out the lack of risk vs. reward for L4 agents in high sec. And now this?

Pretty much 6 pages of people voicing their disbeliefe and their disappointment at this announcement and not one response from CCP? the dev team is a joke. Not just one person is responsible for this. Multiple people had to sign off on this as a good idea. Clearly it isn't.

As many improvements as this game has seen, it also has to suffer through decisions like this one. Just pathetic.

Bellum,

You are not speaking for the mission runner’s population. Yes, there is a very vocal minority (mostly low security pirates) asking L4 missions be moved to low sec. But to insinuate that CCP must give in to your minority’s demand simply because “I’m louder” is illogical at best. There are already numerous low security agents which are being underused. How do I know this? Because I run missions exclusively in low security space. There are simply too many high security players that are not willing to go die to your PVP ship in low security space. The problem with low security isn’t a lack of rewards or too much rewards in high sec. The problem is overfishing in low security. And until low sec PVPers do not realize there will come a time where they will have to start using tools other than their killboards there will always be a lack of targets in low security space.

There is this mentality among a few that if players aren’t willing to risk (read throw their ships away at my guns) they should leave the game. Basically, the “come face my guns or GTFO” mentality. But I highly doubt CCP will give into this ideology in exchange for massive subscription loss.

Edit: And if the problem of overused agents is with Caldari, how would have adding more, say, more Gallente agents helped?


spinarax
Spawns of Thanatos
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2009.05.31 15:12:00 - [182]
 

yay! more mission runners \Very Happy/

Emma Royd
Caldari
Maddled Gommerils
Posted - 2009.05.31 15:48:00 - [183]
 

Edited by: Emma Royd on 31/05/2009 15:51:33
Move along, nothing to see here

Emma Royd
Caldari
Maddled Gommerils
Posted - 2009.05.31 15:50:00 - [184]
 

Edited by: Emma Royd on 31/05/2009 15:51:03
Bah clicked reply instead of edit I guess Rolling Eyes

k, anyone know when is this all going to happen? since the agent I'm using atm is moving to an area surrounded by low-sec, and I'm not gonna start low-sec mission running for anybody

Absalom Marathon
Negatum Influensi
Posted - 2009.05.31 17:44:00 - [185]
 

Even I wouldn't come up with an idea this silly. Not even after 10 beers and only giving the 'issue' 10 minutes of my time. And I'm pretty ****ing silly. There are so many 'why!'s to be shouted at this, I don't even know where to start. And I'm not going to either, others have done it better than me already.

Cors
It's A Trap
It's A Trap Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.31 17:47:00 - [186]
 

I have to ask this. Most of the agents are "close" to the previous mission hubs. Why didn't you find the lowest trafficed systems, and move the new agents to them.

Example.

Corp Police force, security agents. now has 2 Quality 16 lvl 4 agents. Old one was in Kaimon. New one is in Isaziwa. That's 2 jumps form Kaimon. They're both like 5 jumps from Jita. why wouldn't you put the new agent in a system that's as far from Jita as you could get?

jimera muroaga
Posted - 2009.05.31 17:58:00 - [187]
 


VonRijSE
Muppet Factory
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.05.31 18:10:00 - [188]
 

Quote:
...So, as part of our long-term plan...


maybe ccp should had explain those long-term plans so playerbase can get a real view on changes, cause with current info, it sucks as many have said before me

Bruzlig
Posted - 2009.05.31 18:34:00 - [189]
 

Ok let me step in on this one cause everyone is being whining cry babies. High sec lvl 4 mission runners serve a very important role in the game. All those T2 mods / faction being manufactured / found in low sec are very expensive . The only reasonable way to afford them is to run "safe" lvl 4's with high payout. The isk generated there filters to low sec and enables the pvp'ers to keep blowing each other up.

This is all about in game economics not, please give me more care bears to shoot cause I want to grief them. CCP has gone through a good deal of trial and error to make the economy work and keep each group of players as happy as possible. The best way to sum this up is that if no one is fully happy but every one tolerates the current situation, then they are doing their job.

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
Posted - 2009.05.31 19:18:00 - [190]
 

Eve is pvp first and pve second.

Perhaps the developers have forgotten that basic bit of info? Level 4 missions make too much for little effort. They should all be moved or changed into the lower sec scheme of things. Let level 3 missions take over from level 4's in high sec. Grinding Level 4 mission runners should be made to make more effort for their isk. In fact remove the grind.

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2009.05.31 19:38:00 - [191]
 

Edited by: Banana Torres on 31/05/2009 19:38:24
Originally by: Terranid Meester
Eve is pvp first and pve second.

Really?

Then why is there only 6,630 PvP kills per day in Eve?

And why was Alliance P killed off?


DevilDogUSMC
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.05.31 22:13:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: DevilDogUSMC on 31/05/2009 22:21:33
Here is a comment worth reading...
I just got a comment and a couple of points about this new update. Tips and Guides for CCP's latest Agent Mission Update!

Make level 4 missions Harder! Please ! or put level 5 missions into high sec and include capital ship NPC's. Level 5 sites are mostly camped in from opportunistic pirates who spam the area. CCP just check the mission activity levels in those areas nobody does them hardly for that reason ( those who do mission on that level find more profit then 0.0 or pvp ) I believe thats why the NPC mission level is that high anyways.. or you might as well make them all level 3's.

These new mission sites that you are adding wont help the issue I'm afraid. Because the old sites already have massive markets based in and around them it would be like trying to get rid of ( Astroid Belts/ Schools In Jita) and we all know how that one worked outEmbarassedEmbarassedEmbarassed..

For somebody thats been playing just over half a decade it doesnt take much to gage this out. Its a good first step however dont think this will just sort the population problem out.

We hope to see more..
A Huge Fan of eve..

Devil

Tarodir
Posted - 2009.05.31 22:34:00 - [193]
 

Want lv 4 mission runners in lowsec? Change the way scanning works, i tried to run one in lowsec and got probed out in about a minute. Also everyone keeps talking about this stupid risk vs reward, what kind of risk is a mission runner too a pvper(s)? I like to know what ccp is smoking when they come up with these ideas, stop being cheap and get the high quality stuff then maybe we'll see some progress.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.06.01 02:22:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Exlegion

Bellum,

You are not speaking for the mission runner’s population. Yes, there is a very vocal minority (mostly low security pirates) asking L4 missions be moved to low sec. But to insinuate that CCP must give in to your minority’s demand simply because “I’m louder” is illogical at best. There are already numerous low security agents which are being underused. How do I know this? Because I run missions exclusively in low security space. There are simply too many high security players that are not willing to go die to your PVP ship in low security space. The problem with low security isn’t a lack of rewards or too much rewards in high sec. The problem is overfishing in low security. And until low sec PVPers do not realize there will come a time where they will have to start using tools other than their killboards there will always be a lack of targets in low security space.

There is this mentality among a few that if players aren’t willing to risk (read throw their ships away at my guns) they should leave the game. Basically, the “come face my guns or GTFO” mentality. But I highly doubt CCP will give into this ideology in exchange for massive subscription loss.

Edit: And if the problem of overused agents is with Caldari, how would have adding more, say, more Gallente agents helped?




I agree that there are existing lowsec agents that are either unutilized or under utilized. And this is indeed due 100% to the fact that the rewards are not sufficiently larger for lowsec than what can be had in complete safety in highsec space.

I'm not simply concerned with 'play the game my way or quit'. What I want to see happen is for every system in the game to have as much PVP interaction and as little NPC interference as possible. I want the game to be as close to 100% player driven as possible.

I want the market to be as near 100% player driven as possible, industry the same way, and most of all any and all major sources of RAW ISK production (like killing NPCs and missioning) be as accessible as possible to players and player intervention.

TBH Akita T said it best with his leaking pipe analogy. CCP would rather install a water pump in the basement than fix the leaking pipe that is causing the flooding in the first place.

We don't need more L4 agents. What we need is a radical restructuring and redistribution of the ISK generating agents in Eve so that the majority of the ISK producing agents (i.e. all L3s and L4s) be as close to or in lowsec as possible.

Hell, you don't even see games like WoW putting their end game PVE content in areas that are as safe as our highsec mission running hubs.

Space Wanderer
Posted - 2009.06.01 07:15:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: Space Wanderer on 01/06/2009 07:17:24
Nothing wrong with spreading the playerbase from hubs, and I actually also don't agree with those who ask for them in lowsec of not putting the agents in lowsec. It's not like lowsec agents are so crowded that you need new ones to spread the crowd. Very Happy

What I am concerned though is that people will just continue with their usual hubs/treadmill. A much better way to encourage people to use less crowded agents would be to scale rewards from missions for each agent dynamically compared to the overall number of missions asked from all players. That would encourage players to go to lesser crowded agents, would make lowsec agents economically much more feasible, and would just make sense from an economic standpoint. It would be a win/win change, I think.

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2009.06.01 07:21:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Kern Hotha
If you're really hoping that these agents will lure mission runners away I don't think it will succeed. The criteria for a good level 4 agent are:

1. Agent quality 15+
2. 0.5 or 0.6 system
3. No low sec within 2 (preferably 3+) jumps

By those criteria I see maybe one agent worth looking at on the list. Just sayin'.



I did not check the systems where agents have been added to see how many fit the above criteria, but this quote rings true for people looking to stay in hi sec and if CCP truly wants to spread out the mission runners in hi sec then they need to consider this.

thorax spartan
Deserted ExPats
Posted - 2009.06.01 07:24:00 - [197]
 

ok i have to admit to my shame i run missions, lots of them but they way things are there is no insentive to go into lowsec to run missions.

iam not the smartest player but even i know after 3yrs playing that if i took my paladin/nighthawk etc to run lvl4's that i would be probed out in mins and if iam lucky going home in my pod YARRRR!!

thats not to say i would not take my pally into lowsec but the rewards that are on offer at mo are just not worth it, i would be and iam beter off going into lowsec in a harb or hac if i wana pewpew Twisted Evil which iam doing more as iam starting to find missions very boring and the grind kinda gets u down Sad

there are things that would entice me and other like me to lowsec to run missions, making them unscannable for one, and increasing the rewards is another(i know this prob wont ever happen but there u go)

adding more agents is not the way to solve this prob if ccp cnt figure that out then were does that leave every one?

puting a set amount of time a player can stay in a npc corp in one thing that could be done to stop farming(having players in corps fighting over a good agent sys willnot only make the game more fun but will make all the carebears band together to fight off highsec merc's and other carebears for for cntrl of mission sys's Twisted EvilTwisted Evil )


anyway

end rant
ty for reading



thorax spartan

sxndy
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2009.06.01 07:59:00 - [198]
 



Please send more mission runners into low sec.

My mission busting business has suffered greatly due to the economic downturn and I may soon have to start making pirates redundant.

This is a plea from the soul, how can you tuck into your 8 course Icelandic meals when you know that little pirate kids are running about with empty bellies?

Have a heart CCP Crying or Very sad


Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.06.01 10:23:00 - [199]
 

Am I the only one who is not too concerned about agent quality? Most of my (alt's) mission income comes from bounties, loot & salvage, which are not affected by agent quality.

Gefex
Genco
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.01 11:03:00 - [200]
 

Pedantic I know, but saying 'more busier' is a crime against the English language. Its a double comparison.

I'd put a big red mark on that news report and write "E- must try harder"

Tildah
Posted - 2009.06.01 11:55:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: Exlegion
Edited by: Exlegion on 31/05/2009 15:29:17
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
The addition of more *high sec* level four agents (and the fact that the majority of them are caldari FFS) is just disgusting.

This is the best solution that the entireity of the dev team can come up with? In a thread started by CCP Nozh asking what needed the most fixing about the game there was a very large number of posts pointing out the lack of risk vs. reward for L4 agents in high sec. And now this?

Pretty much 6 pages of people voicing their disbeliefe and their disappointment at this announcement and not one response from CCP? the dev team is a joke. Not just one person is responsible for this. Multiple people had to sign off on this as a good idea. Clearly it isn't.

As many improvements as this game has seen, it also has to suffer through decisions like this one. Just pathetic.

Bellum,

You are not speaking for the mission runner’s population. Yes, there is a very vocal minority (mostly low security pirates) asking L4 missions be moved to low sec. But to insinuate that CCP must give in to your minority’s demand simply because “I’m louder” is illogical at best. There are already numerous low security agents which are being underused. How do I know this? Because I run missions exclusively in low security space. There are simply too many high security players that are not willing to go die to your PVP ship in low security space. The problem with low security isn’t a lack of rewards or too much rewards in high sec. The problem is overfishing in low security. And until low sec PVPers do not realize there will come a time where they will have to start using tools other than their killboards there will always be a lack of targets in low security space.

There is this mentality among a few that if players aren’t willing to risk (read throw their ships away at my guns) they should leave the game. Basically, the “come face my guns or GTFO” mentality. But I highly doubt CCP will give into this ideology in exchange for massive subscription loss.

Edit: And if the problem of overused agents is with Caldari, how would have adding more, say, more Gallente agents helped?




You perfectly strike "Bellum Eternus" for 10 000 points of forum damage.




Mister Xerox
Posted - 2009.06.01 12:01:00 - [202]
 

CCP did something with this entire idea that equates to ramming phallic objects into dogs...

Definately not a well thought out plan in the least. Ask the CSMs, they're the ones still actually playing the game... we hope.

Rewarding the Caldari and screwing every other empire is completely idiotic.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.01 12:09:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Zaknussem

Originally by: "Venkul Mul"
Originally by: "Zaknussem"
Rant that sum up to:
"I want people to play in group. It should be mandatory"


No thanks.


Your attitude suggests you could benefit from some social interaction. Grinding up that high Gallente Federation standing must have taken alot of time. Lonely time. Believe me, I know what it's like. Wink I can understand that you don't want other people in your missions. After all, they're so easy to run, you can enjoy a good book in the meantime. Hell, you barely have to be in front of the computer to run them.

But most of all, I can understand your whine because my suggestion would pretty much kill your solo career. You'd have to change. Adapt. And you definetely don't want that. Solo work in EvE is still possible, though. Ask Vladimir Norkoff what he's doing. At worst, he has two spineless part-time assistants. Doesn't sound so bad, does it?



Even more on the line of "group play should be mandatory" plus some personal attack.

So you want to force that on all playerstiles?

2 People to stat a invention job? Mining in gorup or no mining at all? and so on?

MMORPG or not, forcing players to group with other characters to do something is a bad solution. You already interact with the other players whatever you do.


Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
Posted - 2009.06.01 12:49:00 - [204]
 

Any response yet?

Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2009.06.01 14:16:00 - [205]
 

Edited by: Syekuda on 01/06/2009 14:16:47
Is it that long and hard to craeate an agent ? that could explain why theres been not much addition to agents. If not, then why only caldari and some minmatar and gallente? Honestly, there should be more agents in other factions mixed in high sec and low sec.

but good work on the current agent list thought, I guess this should help reduce the load on the current systems we have

Jotobar
Posted - 2009.06.01 15:09:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Tobias Lee
This is definitely long overdue but with only 5 x q18 agents those are the only ones that count since people will flock to them.


Either I'm wrong or you are. Isn't the max effective quality 30? My 0.5 caldari navy agent is at 28 and she's got a base of 9 or something with very little invested in social skills. Completly selfish question that only slightly relate to the topic but humor me.

Point beeing, there's alot more agents to choose from than the q18 ones.

Dav Varan
Posted - 2009.06.01 15:13:00 - [207]
 

Peops allways flock to the highest quality lvl4 agent as they give the best rewards.

If you have quality attribute peops will allways clump together.

Remove quality ( or Make them all +20 ) peops will spread out to low populated systems.

6 years and you still dont get this ?

ok so you may have to tweak how standing are accumulated if you make them all +20 but this would solve mission hubs for good.


Gabriella Fox
Posted - 2009.06.01 16:35:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Dav Varan
Peops allways flock to the highest quality lvl4 agent as they give the best rewards.

If you have quality attribute peops will allways clump together.

Remove quality ( or Make them all +20 ) peops will spread out to low populated systems.

6 years and you still dont get this ?

ok so you may have to tweak how standing are accumulated if you make them all +20 but this would solve mission hubs for good.




Also a good acceptable solution to population make them all equal , or a more complicated one make it dynamic the more an agent is use the lower the rating goes and regenerates so much each down times force mission runners to move away from level 4q-20.

Moonmonkey
Amarr
Orange Clover
Posted - 2009.06.01 17:18:00 - [209]
 

So long as there is even one lvl4 agent in empire its pointless to limit the number of lvl4 agents in empire. All you will endup with is overpopulated mission hubs. Give each faction 40+ lvl4 agents in empire and let people spread around. As for low sec, low sec lvl4 missions should spawn a faction rat or two and low sec agents need to be spread around. Does Ammatar (Assah system) realy need 6 lvl4 Q20 agents?

Ky Vatta
Majority 12
Posted - 2009.06.01 18:52:00 - [210]
 

Rolling EyesOK, we got more Caldari L4 missions, but only 1 new one in The Forge region....there are plenty of systems far enough from Jita with no L4 agents....


And still no more decent L4 Amarr agents (must be coz Blood Raiders are crap)


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