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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2009.05.30 13:06:00 - [121]
 

Kyra Felann said "I 1001% support adding AI similar to that of Sleepers to all NPCs in missions and elsewhere. NPCs have been dumb, harvestable goodie-piñatas for too long. Make them challenging and make missions fun instead of boring slogs."
I like the new AI but have one big complaint. Pure missile ships are fine, pure hybrid ships are fine, pure projectile ships are fine, pure drone ships tough luck you're now useless and unable to take part.

The big problem with shooting drones is you can no longer use drone only setups or drone only ships. Some missions mostly in WC I noticed already drop aggro on you and swap to drones and it's a pain. I have 3 turret slots and I am unable to out damage the drones so the rats drop aggro on me and retarget the drones. I waste so much time pulling drones back and sending them out again.

It's the same problem with the Sleepers with a pure drone ship with few turrets as you're useless. It's unfair for pure drone users. Making NPCs harder is good, but making them impossible for some class of ships is not fair. Forcing us to stop using drone and using turrets is A, not fair as it forcing us to use a secondary weapon system and B, some drone ships don't have enough turrets to keep aggro off the drones and on us.


Cracken
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.30 13:17:00 - [122]
 

If you want people too mission in low sec you have too update the missions so they can be done with *gasp* a pvp fit.

All I hear is whines because people won't go into low sec in pve fitted ships too run missions hmmmzzzzzz...... wonder why.

Because a pve fits utterly ****ing fails @ doing any sort of pvp.

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2009.05.30 13:18:00 - [123]
 

Once again, I see that the developers don't actually play the game. Anyone looking for an agent pays the most attention to Division, Quality, System Security and proximity to low sec (further is better of course). The maximum number of players will be clustered near somewhere that meets the optimum combination of these factors. A limited subset of players will work elsewhere because the LP store offers them something better, but most people go for the Level 4, Q 18, Command Division agent in a 0.5 surrounded by high sec. If you can get more than one agent like this close by, then that is even better.

The new changes, while nice to see the devs pay some attention to the problem, don't do anything to address the current crowding.

It's time CCP scrapped the Quality system - either removing it completely or making it dynamic. An agent who is less visited will increase his rewards to attract capsuleers. A lot of people won't move, others will. Low sec still won't be attractive to most (just like a war-torn third world ghetto is not attractive to most), but for those who dare, it should be worth the effort.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.05.30 13:19:00 - [124]
 

PhD Dev 1: "We have to fix all those scores of guys running the same concentrated agents in Caldari".

PhD Dev 2: "I have a GREAT idea to fix all playing Caldari: what about we add MORE Caldari?"

PhD Dev 1: *paths forehead* "Why didn't I think about this first! It's groundbreaking!"

Lrrp
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.05.30 13:33:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Zaknussem


Despite your claims, Gas Cloud Harvesting does have a ridiculous entry price: Over 40 million ISK just to get started. Add 20 million for every extra Gas Harvester you want to add. So for 5 Gas Harvesters on a ship + skill book you're paying over 120 million ISK. Let's not forget the added cost and time of finding the gas as well. So considerable time will be spent just getting back the money sunk into the profession.
Quote:


Are you completely daft man? I know guys making 1 billion isk a day mining gas clouds. You complain here about the cost getting started then you make this comment:


Originally by: Zaknussem
Meanwhile, the entry level price for L4 missions is about 150 million ISK (skills, ship and fittings) and about a month of skill time training, minimum. By the time you're eligible to talk to the L4 agents, you already have that money in your wallet by running L1-L3 missions. Making that money back should take about a week at the very most.
Quote:


So on one hand 120 mil isk is a lot of isk, OTH it is not. I don't know about anyone else, a starting acct is NOT going to be lvl 4 mission ready in 30 days. How many times have we heard about a noob jumping into a BS before he was ready and losing it in a lvl 3 mission let alone a lvl 4. A casual player will not make 150 mil in 30 days nor will he gain enough standing to have access to a lvl 4 agent. As I stated in another thread, averaged out, a good miner can mine veld in hi sec and make as much a lvl 4 mission runner.


Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2009.05.30 14:15:00 - [126]
 

Without further ado, I give you... a new cohort of spelling and grammar errors in mission texts. E.g.,

Originally by: CCP Molock
So, with no further a due, I give you...

Muskiet
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Posted - 2009.05.30 14:27:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Muskiet on 30/05/2009 14:34:57
Originally by: Frug
Get rid of the lame 'agent quality' system.

Oh yay, you introduced a quality -18 lvl 4 agent. guess how many people will use him?




The quality system is important if your standings still come into play when doing missions for a certain corp so that's why that still exists.

But why I don't change is because it's easy to do a mission and then sell everything I just looted/salvaged right there and then in the station I did the mission from.
You can introduce new agents a couple of jumps away from the trade hubs and I'm sure some people will make the move to get away from ninja-salvagers and the like (though I'm sure some of those will make the move too) but most people will stay in the trade hubs because it's so easy to sell everything as there are buy-orders for everything you loot.

Edit: And for those who cry and whine (want any cheese with that?) about not getting new Amarr, Minmatar, Pirate and low-sec agents let me quote something from the dev blog we're discussing which will explain why this is not the case:

"Another aspect of our content renovation effort concerns the busiest mission hubs. Naturally, the more players we have running missions in and around a given system, the more cluttered those systems become. So, as part of our long-term plan, we've added twenty-three new level 4 agents to TQ and also moved one agent, most of them Caldari (since a substantial majority of players running missions do so in Caldari space).

All of these agents are just far enough away from the busy mission hubs that we hope they'll draw a substantial number of mission-runners over to the new agents and thus help fill up some of the empty space in our growing universe.
"

Lowsecwhiner
Posted - 2009.05.30 15:00:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Lowsecwhiner on 30/05/2009 15:06:10
Originally by: Kaakao
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
you added 23 new lvl 4 agents and didnt place a single freaking one of those in low sec??????

thanks for once again screwing over every single one that lives in low sec



Low sec already has plenty of systems with up to 3x Q20 lvl4 agents. Stop whining.



But that's what we do best, we don't do anything else in eve ... give us something please ...

Jobby
Minmatar
PURPLE.
Posted - 2009.05.30 15:05:00 - [129]
 

lol

Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2009.05.30 15:23:00 - [130]
 

5 Pages of similar views without a dev response or confirmation always makes me nervous.

PvE IS the main isk income for all players out there, so why bork it by making it harder/non-solo'ble. Do we want to go to the bad old days when saving up for a battleship was a two month grinding fest. Not me.

PvE and PvP should feel more like the same thing. Every mission should be taylored in that you can lose a ship if you're not watching, they've gone some way with sleeper AI, so introduce dynamic targeting and transversal travelling to the rats in all missions. This would/should make the cross over between missions and PvP less daunting, but really it comes down to individual attitude, if you don't want to pvp, you won't no matter how many SP's you have, how much isk you have or even if the items are given to you for free.

On the subject of agent locations. More Caldari Agents suck. Amarr is a wasteland, and there's very few people there. I understand balancing the four main empires is a duanting task, and when it comes to high sec Ore you have your reasons for not doing so, however when it comes to agents and faction standing, everyone should have the same opportunities across the board.

Standardise the number of level 1 - 4 agents in high sec and low sec faction space. Spread them around in a spiral from the main systems (historically) of the starting point for that empire (amarr will be hard as they've swallowed up so many), and then let the players decide who to work for and why.

Siri Blue
Gallente
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion
Phalanx Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.30 15:29:00 - [131]
 

What about Pirate Faction agents and their neglected LP shops?

Joseph Vacher
Posted - 2009.05.30 15:55:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Thoraemond
Without further ado, I give you... a new cohort of spelling and grammar errors in mission texts. E.g.,

Originally by: CCP Molock
So, with no further a due, I give you...



I've just gone through five pages of this thread only to find that someone at the very end is as pedantic as I was planning to be. Absolutely furious.

Sharp Feather
Gallente
POS Builder Inc.
Silent Requiem
Posted - 2009.05.30 16:05:00 - [133]
 

Idea
Originally by: Gnulpie

2) Introducing new agents somewhere else in the hope that the current mission hubs will get a bit relieved from the stress (serverside). I had the hope that the whole agent-quality and reward system would get renovated, it is just not up-to-date any more. Why didn't you introduce dynamic agent-quality so that the quality (and therefore reward) will be re-calculated each downtime (or every week) - more people using the agent will lower the agents quality, fewer people using the agent will rise the agents quality.

Idea

OMG THIS IDEA IS SO GREAT QUOTING FOR EMPHASIS WITH CAPS.

4 thumbs up! Very Happy

<3 <3 <3

stuff


Pnandor
Posted - 2009.05.30 16:34:00 - [134]
 

These 23 new agents mission is only for 3 breeds?

Is Amarrian forgotten?

Aramis Rosicrux
Gallente
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
Posted - 2009.05.30 16:35:00 - [135]
 

We need more R&D agents, we need to move the really good agents to low sec, and we already had a crapload of opportunities for Caldari players.

Why another gift to the Caldari?

Three new Galente agents, and all of them in hi sec? Where's the benefit there?

You might as well just delete all the Non-Caldari stuff and rename the game Caldari Stooges?

EPIC FAIL!

Evil or Very Mad

Ellspeth Murdron
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.30 16:46:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Kern Hotha
If you're really hoping that these agents will lure mission runners away I don't think it will succeed. The criteria for a good level 4 agent are:

1. Agent quality 15+
2. 0.5 or 0.6 system
3. No low sec within 2 (preferably 3+) jumps

By those criteria I see maybe one agent worth looking at on the list. Just sayin'.


3. Not exactly... lowsec can be adjacent as long as it's a different constellation: Kill Missions don't cross constellation boundaries.

WheatGrass
Silent but Friendly
Posted - 2009.05.30 16:46:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: WheatGrass on 15/08/2009 17:35:03
Thank you, CCP.

I hope that these "twenty-three new level 4 agents" have an equivalent level of grammar and spelling mastery.

Edit...
I've been doing my part to help with the problem being addressed with this solution. It's nice having a level 4 InterBus agent all to myself. Soon my standings will be at 10 -both with the agent and the InterBus Corp (not faction). Yet, I wonder what I will do with 190k of worthless InterBus LP. I suggest that this concern be looked into -if it isn't currently being done.

How about this as a solution to the problem? (-Also reported here.)

Why have I been running missions for this corporation? It's partly as a 'political' statement, partly as a stated goal, and partly as an experiment to see just what incentive there is to run missions for corps with no LP store. So far the gates to the Jove Empire have yet to be thrown open for me where the other good InterBus agents are. I've been given no opportunity to increase standings with The InterBus faction as a result of running such missions. (All of this work has been accomplished solo and without battleship skills.) Surely, there must be some redeeming incentive to this madness.

Edit...
My progress with this is posted under the Make certain factions more valid for missionrunning Assembly Hall thread, post #30.

Bak Vlok
Caldari
AFK
Posted - 2009.05.30 17:09:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Thoraemond
Without further ado, I give you... a new cohort of spelling and grammar errors in mission texts. E.g.,

Originally by: CCP Molock
So, with no further a clue, I give you...



Spelling fixed, it's the least we players can do Cool

Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2009.05.30 17:18:00 - [139]
 

Quote:
If you're really hoping that these agents will lure mission runners away I don't think it will succeed. The criteria for a good level 4 agent are:

1. Agent quality 15+
2. 0.5 or 0.6 system
3. No low sec within 2 (preferably 3+) jumps

By those criteria I see maybe one agent worth looking at on the list. Just sayin'


Proof I guess that they don't know what motivates a missioner to select a particular agent. Despite years of topics here on the forums about it.

But they DID say "as part of our long term mission plans..." wtf-ever that will entail. All I know is every time they have touched missions they got nerfed. Doesnt appear to be an obvious one here so meh, good show I guess, no matter how wrong headed and useless.

Btw, the fact that Amarr still has almost no decent lvl 4 kill agents outside of LowSuck or a massively lagged hub is lame as hell.

Yee Do
Posted - 2009.05.30 17:20:00 - [140]
 

Agent quality should be attached to the pilot's relationship to the corporation, so if you have done enough missions for a particular corporation, all of their agents at a particular level should regard you the same way. This means you don't have to pack up your mission hub every week chasing the bouncing ball that dynamic quality brings, and people could pick and choose where to play, not CCP.

Hermiod
Posted - 2009.05.30 18:03:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Hermiod on 31/05/2009 11:19:53
Edited by: Hermiod on 31/05/2009 11:18:53
Edited by: Hermiod on 30/05/2009 18:44:09
Edited by: Hermiod on 30/05/2009 18:07:26
Edited by: Hermiod on 30/05/2009 18:05:37
After some searching i found these results for systems (all low/no sec btw) containing multiple L4-Q20 agents:
Hophib (10): 5 x Ministry of War, 5 x Civic Court law school
Ziziert (10): 8 x Zoar and Sons Factory, 2 x Imperial Armaments
Annancale (12): Astral Mining Inc.
Ualkin (11): 5 x Minmatar mining Corp, 4 x Republic Justice Department, 2 x Freedom Extension
Assah (6): Ammatar Fleet
PFP-GUII (5): Quafe Company
Anohel (5): Creodron
Gayar (5): Ammatar trade registry
Balirmoult (5): Material acquisition
Esesier (4): Ducia Foundry
Yahyerer (4): Amarr Navy (all internal security btw)

There are many more systems with 4 or 3 L4Q20 agents all over lowsec New Eden. Why not spread those out for a better "balancing"?
I like the idea of agents slowly decreasing their quality (not level), the more intense they are being harvested.

Tithia Jadetiger
Caldari
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2009.05.30 18:30:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Tithia Jadetiger on 30/05/2009 22:37:24


I have a feeling that the devs who made this update really have no f-ing clue in regards to mission runners and what they actually are looking for when selecting agents. Not to mention that this "Update" will do nothing to drag 99% of the players in the current mission hubs away from these places. The reality of the situation is that the level and quality system should be removed in favor of a dynamic system where a new player builds up reputation to better paying missions with a single corp and all its agent/corp. If a player wants to move to a new agent/corp elsewhere in the game they would in turn be required to do a series of special referral chain missions to start off at the same level of quality missions with a new agent/corp.

Tithia Jadetiger
Caldari
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2009.05.30 18:35:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Yee Do
Agent quality should be attached to the pilot's relationship to the corporation, so if you have done enough missions for a particular corporation, all of their agents at a particular level should regard you the same way. This means you don't have to pack up your mission hub every week chasing the bouncing ball that dynamic quality brings, and people could pick and choose where to play, not CCP.


+1

Lowsecwhiner
Posted - 2009.05.30 19:56:00 - [144]
 

The amount of ridiculous ideas that make their way on the forums is amazing no wonder CPP doesn't read them . I hear mostly request to destroy other peoples game play , what are lowsec player after exactly ? how is ruining someone else game time make yours better ? is it the only way you can think of making Eve better ?

As for the change it is good because it might have a real impact on some hubs. I said might ...


my suggestions for low sec:

1)spread those level 4Q20 around low sec space (doubt it will change much but it is an obvious start)

I don't have anything else I have no clue what peoples in low sec do other then gate camping and shooting travelers.

Raukho
Evoke.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2009.05.30 21:16:00 - [145]
 

To many Caldari agents.

MIRKINZ
Caldari
The Ankou
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.05.30 21:56:00 - [146]
 

And maybe the reason so many people do caldari missions is because the lack of agents for other factions(minus gallente of course). And Amaar highsec agents are SERIOUSLY lacking!! Go try to find a lvl 4 amarr navy agent in high sec by domain or tash murkon. they are so lacking that you have to gain faction with Minitry of internal order if you want anything!

*Oh and could you also put a few random outposts in the middle of the drone regions with a bunch of LvL4 missions for some sort of pirate faction.

That is all......

Earthican
Minmatar
DARKFELL EXCURSIONS
Reverberation Project
Posted - 2009.05.30 22:07:00 - [147]
 

frack it ban me if you want but CCP I think ur reasoning that the minmatar don't have anything good so don't give them anything good is complete bull****.

Shart McBart
Posted - 2009.05.30 22:55:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Sidrat Flush
5 Pages of similar views without a dev response or confirmation always makes me nervous.


They only respond to fanbois ... not ****ed off customers.

Fennicus
Amarr
United Trade Coalition
Posted - 2009.05.30 22:58:00 - [149]
 

More agents is good.

More high quality combat agents in hisec space, is, er, extremely questionable, especially when compared against agent quality for the other races.

I wonder what the reason behind this move is. Perhaps richer farmer means a better T3 market? Rolling Eyes

Earthican
Minmatar
DARKFELL EXCURSIONS
Reverberation Project
Posted - 2009.05.30 23:23:00 - [150]
 

Petition Body
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1084247

hello?

Hello?

HEY YOU

This entire 5 page thread and the dev blog are offensive in that it clearly ...


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