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Tractormech
Caldari
Stones Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2009.05.30 06:12:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Tractormech on 30/05/2009 06:24:10
Wow, this is just horrible.

You managed to make the problem obviously the same to worse - not better.

Yes more players = more agents, but damn, don't get so excited when you make these blogs and stop to think for a bit. All you have succeeded in doing is aggravate people even more after last week's fiasco.

We all know cald space is overpopulated as it is save for a few spots best left unknown. The whole npc corp/agent system needs a major overhaul and it needs it now.

L4s affect the economy more than anything else in the game. Sticking all the new L4 agents right next to the biggest trade hub in the game really doesn't help the situation. Clustering the new L4s in areas of high sec space away from current trade hubs would allow the formation of new trade hubs and the spreading out of players. If your looking for a quick fix that needs to be done, not this.

Its the L4 agents that create the trade hubs. Spread people out by keeping them away from the current hubs. Not all in Cald space.



Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.05.30 06:20:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Kyra Felann on 30/05/2009 06:32:08
I 1001% support adding AI similar to that of Sleepers to all NPCs in missions and elsewhere. NPCs have been dumb, harvestable goodie-piñatas for too long. Make them challenging and make missions fun instead of boring slogs.

This is coming from someone who--when I can stand the boredom of doing a mission--do it semi-AFK in a Dominix. I'd happily give up easy but boring money from missions for challenging but fun money from missions.

PvE combat should be similar to PvP combat. Similar fittings and tactics should work in both. The ability for mission runners to fit 'easy-mode' fittings that own NPCs but would fail miserably in PvP is a bad thing for the game, IMO. The ideal, IMO, would be similar to the Turing Test: to be unable to tell whether you're fighting a human or an NPC, at least from fitting and tactics used, if not from name and icon shown.

This would also bring the risk/reward ratio to a more even balance, which I think the majority of players would say is a good thing.

EDIT: I also support making agent quality dynamic, based on how many pilots run missions for them in a given time period. This is actually a really good idea and would accomplish the goal of spreading mission-runners out instead of continuing to support mission-hubs and would be a more elegant solution than just creating more agents.

As it is, income (ISK, LP, loot, minerals refined from loot, etc) from missions is one of the few completely infinite resources that is not limited by time or anything. There is no competition when it comes to missions--theoretically, an infinite number of missions runners could theoretically run missions non-stop for 23 hours a day and keep getting the same returns with no ill effect. Compare this to mining, trading, manufacturing, or, indeed, any other profession. Dynamic agent quality would introduce a form of competition to mission-running and I think that'd be a good thing. Too many people mining in a given system will lead to less ore available. Currently, too many people mission-running in a system may lead to more lag, but no other downsides.

From an in-character perspective, it seems like eventually a given agent would run out of important jobs and start paying less for the less important one he or she gives out.

Gyvate
Hyperion LTD.
Posted - 2009.05.30 06:35:00 - [93]
 

CCP,

Love the game, more or less. I've been around, and done most of the things one does in Eve. I spent a couple of years in 0.0 and eventually gave it up for HighSec life with a couple of friends and very casual play. My reasons are complex, but the basics are simple. I don't have time to be dedicated to Alliance life anymore, and I don't wish to be one of those members who do nothing for the team.

My idea for Agents:

Dynamic Level, Dynamic Quality

Tie level and quality of EVERY agent in the game, to how many missions you run for said agent, how successful you are at those missions, and even how many missions you turn down. Work faction standing and such into it of course.

What does this do?

1. Every corp has the potential for good agents/missions.
2. No reason to live at a busy hub if you don't want to. (will there even be hubs with this idea?)
3. Mission players can pick a home and stay if they desire.
4. Mission players can move if they need to and build another good home.

As far as the usual complaints about agent missions screwing up the game, I'd like to remind everyone, it's a GAME. A lot of people play for fun and relaxation. I like PVP, but often don't have time for it. I know people who just don't like PVP. Period. Force them to it, they will CHURN.

CHURN... Industry term for losing a customer who pays on an ongoing basis.

Important to note that while some feel this would be a good thing, I believe the game will fail if CCP loses too many customers who like the casual Eve.

Thanks for your attention
-Gyvate

Hermiod
Posted - 2009.05.30 07:36:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Hermiod on 30/05/2009 18:34:30
Yay for more level4 agents,.. But why only caldari?
This will only result in more people choosing caldari because of better mission oppurtunities. --> Caldari space will get even more crowded.
On the comment of L4 mining agents: I know of one lowsec system (Annancale iirc) that contains no less then 12 L4Q20 agents, mostly mining division. There are a few more lowsec systems that contain numerous L4Q20 agents (up to 12 i counted). Shouldn't those agents be spread out more evenly across new eden? Since ccp is so keen on "balancing" (or is it nerfing?).

Rodger Wilcoe
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.30 07:42:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Rodger Wilcoe on 30/05/2009 07:42:16
Once again, Risk vs Reward has not been taken into account at all.

SirFett
Best Path Inc.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.30 07:53:00 - [96]
 

to sum it all up : ShockedLaughing

Positive :


1) New Agents!

Negative :


1) No new Pirate Agents
2) No new Amarr Agents
3) No new Agents in less frequented Regions
4) No new Agents in lowsec
5) Agents strategicaly placed to be utterly useless to 95% of mission runners (next to lowsec etc)



Was there a meeting for this or did you randomly bash your heads on the keyboard to seed the agents and then spend 5x as much time on writing the Devblog ?
i mean seriously lol

Avalon Champion
Black Thorne Corporation
Posted - 2009.05.30 08:03:00 - [97]
 

I'm sure others can validate the stats below, however here are a few stats for people to look at, with a break down of all agents by faction, for Basic Agents (R&D, Event, story line, FW, tutorial, etc excluded).

factionName agentcount
------------------------------ -----------
Caldari State 133
Minmatar Republic 114
Gallente Federation 113
Amarr Empire 89
Ammatar Mandate 48

Over all this shows that Amarr is in some serious need of love over all agent levels, although you could argue that ammatar mandate is a sub set of ammar, but thats a moot point.

Now, lets look at the number of level 4 agents, by faction regardless of division

factionName agentcount
------------------------------ -----------
Caldari State 25
Minmatar Republic 19
Ammatar Mandate 17
Amarr Empire 15
Gallente Federation 15

This isnt too bad ammar actually has the best ratio of level 4's to the other main factions, with amattar mandate best over all, with a staggering 35% of agents being level 4, caldari has 18% of its agents at level 4, and Gallante is the worst with 13%.


Now filtering for the following divisions

divisionName
--------------------
Command
Intelligence
Internal Security
Security
Surveillance

we get the following stats

factionName agentcount
------------------------------ -----------
Caldari State 18
Minmatar Republic 16
Ammatar Mandate 14
Amarr Empire 12
Gallente Federation 11

The same trend continues, with Ammatar having the best ratio and gallante having the worst.

However with the new agent counts this moves a little and and increases the overall number of caldari level 4's to over 30.

What im trying to show is that if CCP want people to move around eve and populate more of eves systems and factions, then its about time they stopped focusing on Caldari and make other factions as attractive to the PvE community.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.30 08:11:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Originally by: Tarodir
Originally by: Frug
Get rid of the lame 'agent quality' system.

Oh yay, you introduced a quality -18 lvl 4 agent. guess how many people will use him?




Excalty, -18 agent why bother. Laughing



Because that agent will have an effective quality of 0 taking your Connections, Criminal Connections, Diplomacy, Negotiation and standings into account in addition to the agent's quality.


But the q +18 agent I am using in a 0.6 system get to +49 effective quality with all my skills.

A q -18 agent would get to +13.

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.30 08:14:00 - [99]
 

You picked the wrong approach, instead of providing agents for the other factions so players consider running for them, you just make even MORE people hop over to the Caldari!

ADD THESE AGENTS FOR THE OTHER FACTIONS NOW.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.30 08:15:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Los Lecrosis

1. They took away all my high sec L5 agents. WTF CCP? DONT TRY TO FORCE US INTO LOWSEC IF WE DON'T WANT TO GO! Also, my corp that i run missions for used to have a L5 agent and now has none at all, so you effectively took away my ability to run L5s at all.



CCP took away nothing. Those level 5 agents were never active. Only placeholders for something that was stillborn.

Saphros
Minmatar
Lone Gunmen
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2009.05.30 08:44:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
You picked the wrong approach, instead of providing agents for the other factions so players consider running for them, you just make even MORE people hop over to the Caldari!


This!

Vote Ankhesentapemkah for new CCP content developer in 2009 Wink

(Off topic: Btw, it sure was some time ago since I saw you in our public channel Ankhesentapemkah, but you stay on target girl!)


Rovato
Posted - 2009.05.30 08:49:00 - [102]
 

1. is it sooo hard to see that caldari space is very populated because the best agents are there?? adding more agents to caldari space will make it the only place to be wich is already almost acomplished
2. adding sleeper AI to missions will make alot of ppl quit because even ppl with jobs play eve, not only kids with nothing to do at home

thorax spartan
Deserted ExPats
Posted - 2009.05.30 08:53:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ



Running level 4 missions is one of the LEAST profitable professions in Eve. Yes, the least, your saw right.


The problem, contrary to popular and idiotic memes (risk vs. reward, lol) is that mission running has no competency between players, if quality of agents and numebr of missions given where a fuction of people running mission, scarcity and competition would get into play. Then we could start to see some interesting things, like mission runners deccing other runner just to control agents! Shocked

Couple that with nerfing of npc corps which protect players agaisnt any other players and all the "problem" would be fixed. Meanwhile ignorants can spin the memes "move the agents to low sec", "risk vs. reward") and other crapp like that.


this is a idea i have been hoping to see for such a long time, but i dought it will ever happen Sad
i think it would help the pve side of the game as peeps are foced to fight for mission agent sys's banding to gether to form corp's/alliences fighting to keep lvl4 agents sys's Twisted Evil
tbh i think that 3 months max in a npc corp would be nuff(allowing peeps to learn basic's and get some isk) then kick them from the corp to either miltia or form thier own

anyway that was my 2 cents


thor

Totally Hopeless
Posted - 2009.05.30 09:06:00 - [104]
 

Good lord, more agents for the already glutted Caldari.
Way to do unmentionable things to the pooch, CCP.

And while you're at it... how about removing the science agents currently in warring regions?

Minmatar science (Core Complexion) from Amarr space, for instance??? Why in Eve are the R&D companies sitting unmolested in enemy territory???

Hyveres
Caldari
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.05.30 09:08:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Hyveres on 30/05/2009 09:24:52
One detail I noticed.. no new amarr agents , and while minmatar got some stuff they are still screwed.

One of the reasons so many people missionrun in caldari space is the fact that their agents generally do not "live" in systems bordering lowsec. Amarr Navy as one example has no good quality agents in highsec.

And we all know that Republic Fleet got 1 good highsec agent in dodixie , with the remaining good minmatar agents living in systems that border lowsec making them rather risky for the people who intent to use them.

Federation is slightly better off but compared to caldari they also lack highsec agents of ok/good quality.

Personally I started in caldari and it took me a long time to find a good alternative among the other factions.

By adding more caldari you are just treating the symptoms , not the disease which is a lack of good highsec agents for the other factions , particularly minmatar & Amarr.

Seluko
Posted - 2009.05.30 09:48:00 - [106]
 

Either CCP has gone ever more stupid than usual, or they want to kill the market even more.
Money faucets(IE. money from NOTHING) are the most stupid things to ever add to a game that is supposed to have had a market system designed by professionals.
This update proves the stupidity that plagues CCP now, that instead of FIXING the stupidity that is missions, they make them even easier.
Good job

Felysta Sandorn
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2009.05.30 10:33:00 - [107]
 

Even less of an incentive to move to lowsec... Great, well done CCP! Rolling Eyes

Agent quality should be proportional to the security of the system:
-20 : 1.0
-16 : 0.9
-12 : 0.8
-8 : 0.7
-4 : 0.6
0 : 0.5
4 : 0.4
8 : 0.3
12 : 0.2
16 : 0.1
20 : 0.0


Binarysoul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.30 10:52:00 - [108]
 

Oh wow how thrilling! more high sec agents, makes 0.0 even less tempting. hows about putting a load of agents (not pirate) in 0.0
so we don't have to chew on rats "interview with a vampire" style or mine until our hair falls out through bordom.

Daan Sai
Polytrope
Posted - 2009.05.30 11:13:00 - [109]
 

You'd would have thought that they'd stop and look at *why* so many mission with Caldari agents, but noooo. They run in Caldari space because of the best selection of quality agents in 0.5-0.6 sec space, not really very hard.

What we needed was a rebalance and new accessible quality agents in the other three empires, not more Caldari agents.

This is really a missed opportunity, sadly.



JonJames
Posted - 2009.05.30 11:23:00 - [110]
 

Whilst i'm not to fussed about the changes themselves as i can't do level 4's (though it does sound an improvement) I do think the use of the term "Dungeons" to describe certain areas is a bit off. It sounds a bit to medieval for a space game that is set in the future, perhaps a new definition should be invented...

Nova Satar
Sileo In Pacis
Posted - 2009.05.30 11:35:00 - [111]
 

Good to see Republic Security services still stuck with their one level 4, whislt caldair navy push into the 20's.

Confused

HyperZerg
Posted - 2009.05.30 11:45:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: HyperZerg on 30/05/2009 11:50:10
Move all level 4 Agents to lowsec
Move all other Agents to lowsec too !
Move all Belts to lowsec!
Move all scanning-Content to lowsec !
Move all Stations to lowsec !

Did I missed something ?

btw, nice new Amarr Agents

gro3ny
Caldari
DAB
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.05.30 11:50:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: gro3ny on 30/05/2009 12:28:29
Edited by: gro3ny on 30/05/2009 12:09:04
This update is only "part of CCP's long-term plan." I think there will be more tweaking and new agents. Calm down people.

Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2009.05.30 11:59:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: "Gnulpie"
That is not the right thread to discuss your ideas, but your above statement is so wrong that I cannot let it slip uncommented.

Running level 4 missions is one of the LEAST profitable professions in Eve. Yes, the least, your saw right.

What is more profitable you might ask? Trading is by far more profitable (e.g. rag to riches, apprx. 10 bil per month with only very little time each day invested), low sec/0.0 exploration, gas cloud harvesting/booster production, invention, wormholes, 0.0 ratting, moon harvesting, t2/t3-material reactions etc. all professions are much more profitable than running level 4 missions and need a lot less time.


Wow, talking out of your backend must be hard. I'll agree, trading and moon harvesting are more profitable, and my words should have been "Mission running is one of the most profitable professions in EvE." That's my bad. But the rest...Rolling Eyes

Low-sec exploration is not worth it, while 0.0 exploration (and 0.0 ratting, last I checked) are only slightly less profitable than L4 mission running.

Despite your claims, Gas Cloud Harvesting does have a ridiculous entry price: Over 40 million ISK just to get started. Add 20 million for every extra Gas Harvester you want to add. So for 5 Gas Harvesters on a ship + skill book you're paying over 120 million ISK. Let's not forget the added cost and time of finding the gas as well. So considerable time will be spent just getting back the money sunk into the profession.

Booster production? Oh sure, let's ask all the booster producers out there about all the money they're rolling in. Especially that corp (whose name I forget at the moment) who had a monopoly on several booster products. They eventually had to resort to POS exploits to stay afloat.

Depending on how you approach it, Invention either takes lots and lots of time or lots and lots of money. Even then, only a few select items are guaranteed to give a profit...and the market for those items is saturated already.

T3 production? Have you missed all the talk about the profits there? The top industrialists in EvE have gone over the whole process and done the numbers and reached the conclusion that it isn't worth it. Which is a huge blow to CCP, who are now going out of their way to make T3 ships more viable by fiddling with bonuses and giving T3 subsystems small "I WIN" buttons, but that's another matter entirely.

Meanwhile, the entry level price for L4 missions is about 150 million ISK (skills, ship and fittings) and about a month of skill time training, minimum. By the time you're eligible to talk to the L4 agents, you already have that money in your wallet by running L1-L3 missions. Making that money back should take about a week at the very most.

Quote:
Please stop throwing around completely wrong statements.


I've corrected the errors in my statement. Now it's time for you to practice what you preach.

Originally by: "Venkul Mul"
Originally by: "Zaknussem"
Rant that sum up to:
"I want people to play in group. It should be mandatory"


No thanks.


Your attitude suggests you could benefit from some social interaction. Grinding up that high Gallente Federation standing must have taken alot of time. Lonely time. Believe me, I know what it's like. Wink I can understand that you don't want other people in your missions. After all, they're so easy to run, you can enjoy a good book in the meantime. Hell, you barely have to be in front of the computer to run them.

But most of all, I can understand your whine because my suggestion would pretty much kill your solo career. You'd have to change. Adapt. And you definetely don't want that. Solo work in EvE is still possible, though. Ask Vladimir Norkoff what he's doing. At worst, he has two spineless part-time assistants. Doesn't sound so bad, does it?

(That is another problem that Sleeper AI will also fix. Macro bots will have a harder time as well running missions. That can only be good, can't it?)

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2009.05.30 12:06:00 - [115]
 

Giving other empires good agents (not Caldari), making lowsec and 0.0 missions vastly more profitable so it´s worth doing and worth fighting over good mission systems, and making ratting more dependable for income in 0.0 as well would be much better than just making Cal space even more attractive.

Saphros
Minmatar
Lone Gunmen
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2009.05.30 12:18:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Saphros on 30/05/2009 12:18:42
And now back to the real issue... (Or rather an amateurs thesis on the issue anyway)

Quote:
The Caldari are often called "the Chosen Race" of Eve, not because of any fictional feature but rather because CCP (the game's creators and developers) often appear to favor this race when coding new game elements. In fact, the majority of Eve players are Caldari.


In other words, The Caldari players are like Pop music artist as they are the ones in the music industry that are generating the most IRL-ISK and thus the ones getting the most love and attention from the music industry.

Does it make sense? ugh




Pnandor
Posted - 2009.05.30 12:31:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Pnandor on 30/05/2009 12:34:18
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Out with the old, in with the new. Whether it’s the discovery of new areas of space or new graphics and effects, EVE Online continuously evolves. Joining the evolution: content. In addition to renovating some old missions and new dead space areas, a slew of new Level 4 agents have made their home in New Eden far away from some of the more busier mission hubs. CCP Molock gives us the lowdown on what the Content team has been up to of late in his latest dev blog.

Update: The location of Kotasen Isanakka has been corrected in the blog. It was originally listed as Uesuro, but the agent prefers the food in Unpas, so can be found there instead.



Okay where is Amarrians agents?

Irish Blend
Posted - 2009.05.30 12:39:00 - [118]
 

I apporve of this effort to attempt to social engineer the behaviour of players.

People will gather. That is long term behaiour

Your fix is short term

Put in a long term fix - gates on the number of missions an agent will hand out at one time, gates on agents handing out new missions if the local communications beacon has too many connections.

Oh wait, this would help to fix the Jita nonesense also.

Every player in the game will gravitate to a single "best place" in game...just don't make one place the best.


Mykpilot
Gallente
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.05.30 12:52:00 - [119]
 

I'm pretty sure a lot of people here complaining about L4 missions really just want everything set to 0.0

Tobias Lee
Star Mercs
Posted - 2009.05.30 12:54:00 - [120]
 

This is definitely long overdue but with only 5 x q18 agents those are the only ones that count since people will flock to them.

I would also like to see the ability to fix your standings below -2 with the use of bribes or special missions to fix standings and also those epic level 2 3 4 missions you sorta promised.

Also revising lvl 5 so maybe they can be in high sec? and the rewards for em.


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