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Ulstan
Posted - 2009.05.29 17:46:00 - [61]
 

Also, we have a golden opportunity to fix two birds with one stone by expanding factional warfare.

Make all NPC corps be enrolled in the FW for that empire automatically. New players should start out knowing they are 'at war' with sizeable portions of the EVE playerbase. They'll still be fairly safe in the hi sec areas protected by those navies, but it gives them some purpose and direction and doesn't tell them that they can expect a PvP free life.

Now, expand FW mechanics so that system control actually means something. When FW was introduced an amazing amount of mission runners headed out, formed up fleets, and had a blast in cheap t1 frigs/cruisers/BC's. They remarked on how much fun it was and they had no idea. This is because fighting in a group with friends in ships you can afford to lose over specific objectives is fun, while having your 2-3b investment blown apart by a blob at a gatecamp is not fun. Mission runners avoid the latter like the plague and there is often nothing like the former to show them they don't need to avoid PvP. So FW was great for breaking the ice like that.

But then nothing happened with FW and it's all just sort of languished. System control needs to matter. I suggest a tug of war system.

You can capture low sec for your empire, and convert it to hi sec.

You can capture the enemies hi sec and convert it to low sec. This would of course then affect the security ratings of nearby systems.

This would make doing well in FW to protect your' mission hubs' a PvP activity even mission runners would want to be involved in and you might see actual meaningful territory wars between the empires. Mission runners would want the front to be as far from their mission hub as possible, since any member of an opposing empire could, if they could get past the npc empire navies, come blow them up while they missioned.

Cruthensis
Gallente
Xeno Tech Corp
Self Destruct.
Posted - 2009.05.29 18:03:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: CCP Molock
we've added twenty-three new level 4 agents to TQ and also moved one agent, most of them Caldari (since a substantial majority of players running missions do so in Caldari space).


^ That's one of the dumber things I've heard this week. A substantial concentration of mission runners have already gravitated to Caldari NPC corps to run their missions, yet your idea of rebalancing this is to further unbalance the distribution of agents across the races by giving Caldari space more of them?

Why not buff the agents in other parts of the universe instead of piling everyone up in just one race's space?

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.29 18:20:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Zaknussem

Rant that sum up to:
"I want people to play in group. It should be mandatory"


No thanks.

Slave 2739FKZ
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.29 18:55:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Lrrp
Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ


The problem, contrary to popular and idiotic memes (risk vs. reward, lol) is that mission running has no competency between players, if quality of agents and numebr of missions given where a fuction of people running mission, scarcity and competition would get into play.



You're kinda wrong here. High sec missions can still have the salvage taken and salvage can be worth fully half the value of the mission (i.e. worth as much as the bounties or more).
I also remember any number of times a high sec mission runner being ganked to get his expensive officer fittings.
Then there were the times a mission buster wold sneak in cloaked, and get close to the missioner in the hopes the runner would be using smart bomb and concorde would kill the missioner. So much for non player interactivity eh?


The only real competition there is ninja-salvaging, and yous till have a lot of safe income from lps/bounties and loot (but there can be thrievery and interaction too). Also the lagents give missions all teh time, there is a neverending supply of them, unlike plexes which are limited each downtime.

So no, it's just not enough competition. Actually I would agree with more agents if the whole system is reworked to be more competitive and harder: please sleeper ai & roughtness into missions allready; epic missions allready; remove quality and adjust rewards variable to agent ussage; cap missions per day; move bounties to loot via tags (full player interaction) like faction npcs, etc.

Ozzy Decker
Posted - 2009.05.29 19:11:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Ozzy Decker on 29/05/2009 19:11:57
Is there any chance there will be a high quality(18 or so) level 4 agent for Amarr navy in high sec added that is of the command or security(anything high combat) type? It just doesn't seem exactly fair that caldari gets all the good quality agents of high combat types in high sec and those of us running amarr navy missions who prefer to avoid low sec are stuck with the best agent being personnel dropping a courier on us every couple of missions or more.

Abriana Overlord
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.29 19:13:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Whew, so glad I waited for that lvl 4 agents blog.


Laughing

Master Gotama
Posted - 2009.05.29 19:32:00 - [67]
 

Dear CCP,
Thanks for the new agents. Me likes and looks forward to ever more new content.

ugh

Tressin Khiyne
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.05.29 19:41:00 - [68]
 

Apparently CCP has NO intention of moving lvl 4s to lowsec. Every single new agent is in secure space.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.05.29 20:03:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Tressin Khiyne
Apparently CCP has NO intention of moving lvl 4s to lowsec. Every single new agent is in secure space.


And why should they?

There are already enough level 4, quality 20 agents in low sec. There are often enough a couple of those l4q20 agents IN THE SAME STATION. And? Is anyone running missions there? No.

So, moving l4 missions won't do ANYTHING - except hurting CCP's subscribers base. Why should they do such a thing? Would be completely stupid.

They have plenty of agents in low sec already, from level 1 to level 5, all available. Maybe they should buff level 5 missons insteady? And increase the reward for low sec, yes?

And yes, maybe dynamic agent quality instead of fixed quality?

But yeah, scream yell whine that ccp must need to move the level 4 missions to low sec or else Eve will be destroyed, that's pretty stupid.

EvilSpork
Caldari
Posted - 2009.05.29 21:11:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: EvilSpork on 29/05/2009 21:12:12
Originally by: Dramaan
Edited by: Dramaan on 28/05/2009 23:54:49
Is this a bad joke?

No new amarr agents

No new Minmatar agents

no new pirate agents.

No new agents in low sec or pirate faction space.



i have to agree. if everyone in flying for caldari.. maybe encourage them to run missions for someone else?!
caldari is convenient due to the clusters of very high quality agents. amarr doesnt even have a q20 lvl 4 agent in highsec... at all.

cmon guys get it together. throwing more agents at the problem will only make it worse!Evil or Very Mad

edit: redeem yourselves and say this was a joke and only the first part of adding new agents.. now give ALL FACTIONS 23 new level 4 agents all over the place.

Ghoest
Posted - 2009.05.29 21:48:00 - [71]
 

This thread is a mess.

1/3 the people are whining about high sec vs low sec missions - wrong thread.

1/3 the people are whining about there only being Caldari agents added - read the whole post dim wits.


Whats being lost in the shuffle is that the old hubs have more and often better agents than the new hubs.

No one will use the ne hubs unless you make them equal or better with respect to factors players care about.

Captain Megadeath
Posted - 2009.05.29 21:49:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Captain Megadeath on 29/05/2009 21:51:54
Originally by: Veng3ance
Oh and less friggies means more "AFK" mode mission runners. Do you actually want people to play your game? Or do you want a bunch of chinese-esque farmers all over high-sec.

This blog is disgusting.


You allegations that only isk-farmers run level 4 missions is down right insulting.

PvE'ers ARE playing the game. Eve is not just PvP.

Suedomza Ralav
Posted - 2009.05.29 21:57:00 - [73]
 

The quality system should be completely separated from mission reward. Instead, it should just be used to determine appropriate standings to use an agent.

Mission rewards (both isk and LP) would be dynamically based upon use. The server would keep track of how many missions an agent had given over the last 7 days (done at downtime), and base their payout scale accordingly. Mission rewards in highsec might only be a few isk, but underused agents would see higher rewards, with the possibility of drastically underused agents (probably in low-sec) seeing rewards in the 10-20m range. Mission bounties would be the same.

This wouldn't have a drastic effect on high-sec mission running, as the mission reward is not a huge part of the mission payoff. However, people would have an incentive to move to that -18 quality agent (since it doesn't effect payout), because he isn't used as much and might be giving 3-4m mission rewards. Eventually, high-sec would be more homogenized as to mission rewards, regardless of agent quality or system security. Higher quality agents might have a bit of an advantage, since standings slightly restricts the pool of who can use them. People with high standings could use any agent, allowing them to more quickly adjust to higher paying agents, while lower standings would be limited to the lower quality agents.

Also, this system would naturally see low-sec agents, who are drastically underused, tally up massive LP/isk rewards. This would provide a financial incentive for people to dart into low-sec and try to run some quick missions for some fast isk.

Ariane VoxDei
Posted - 2009.05.29 22:12:00 - [74]
 

I have to agree with the sentiment expressed here earlier:

Where are the Amarr and other faction agents?

Also, totally agree that the the largest reason by far, that Caldari agents are so popular, is their abundance of high-qual L4 combat agents in highsec. Relative proximity to Jita is a plus, since you get better loot/salvage/mineral prices in The Forge as well.
A good example is Caldari Navy.

A bad example is Amarr's Imperial Navy, where every combatheavy L4 agent is in lowsec. Ammatar fleet is not much better in that respect.

Being experienced with Amarrian combat agents in a number of corps I happen to know some of the alternatives to the Navy, but it really could use some loving, if you want to spread people a bit more out.

Given the story background of being the largest navy in Eve by far, this is a bit of a mismatch.

No doubt there are alternatives (mostly with only one or two L4 combat agents in the whole corp), but ignorance and lack of thought prevent most from seeing them. And of course the low agent count makes it a pain to deny certain missions (anti empirefaction and rogue drones).
Just to name 3 examples:
Ministry of Internal Order - Penirgman, Domain. L4 Q16.
Sarum family - Nakri, Domain. L4 Q15.
Imperial Armaments - Ziona, Domain. L4 Q-10 :(

Tarodir
Posted - 2009.05.30 01:21:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Frug
Get rid of the lame 'agent quality' system.

Oh yay, you introduced a quality -18 lvl 4 agent. guess how many people will use him?




Excalty, -18 agent why bother. Laughing

Captain Megadeath
Posted - 2009.05.30 01:55:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Tarodir
Originally by: Frug
Get rid of the lame 'agent quality' system.

Oh yay, you introduced a quality -18 lvl 4 agent. guess how many people will use him?




Excalty, -18 agent why bother. Laughing



Because that agent will have an effective quality of 0 taking your Connections, Criminal Connections, Diplomacy, Negotiation and standings into account in addition to the agent's quality.

Tarodir
Posted - 2009.05.30 02:48:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Originally by: Tarodir
Originally by: Frug
Get rid of the lame 'agent quality' system.

Oh yay, you introduced a quality -18 lvl 4 agent. guess how many people will use him?




Excalty, -18 agent why bother. Laughing



Because that agent will have an effective quality of 0 taking your Connections, Criminal Connections, Diplomacy, Negotiation and standings into account in addition to the agent's quality.


Still won't draw many people away from the hubs with their plus quality agents. So they are nerfing their own change even before its put ingame.

Los Lecrosis
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.05.30 03:23:00 - [78]
 

OK I am thoroughly fed up with CCP for three reasons:

1. They took away all my high sec L5 agents. WTF CCP? DONT TRY TO FORCE US INTO LOWSEC IF WE DON'T WANT TO GO! Also, my corp that i run missions for used to have a L5 agent and now has none at all, so you effectively took away my ability to run L5s at all.

2. They are about to delete my L4 agent and force me to move 9 jumps, this really really sucks when you already have a well established highsec research POS etc. No compelling reason was given.

3. CCP's answer to laggy mission hub systems should be MORE server bandwidth, and ADD NEW AGENTS, without deleting old agents that people enjoy using in their base of operations. Also L5 agents rewards were a joke.

PLEASE PLEASE CCP dont take away my agent! I will be VERY angry and may even cancel one of my three accounts in protest!

Thanks for listening.

-Los

Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2009.05.30 03:28:00 - [79]
 

I don't see how, but if you say equipping Caldari with another Surveillance Q18 in 0.5 and Minmatar with an Administration Q0 in 1.0 will lead to a better spread throughout highsec and more balance between the agents qualities of the empires, well... I was about to say I believe you.

But I really do not see how.

Caldari has more L4 agents, with better quality, in lowser truesec systems, deep enough in highsec so that the missions don't take you out of it.
For comparison (I only know the Minmatar case so it will be my example) the few high quality L4 agents Minmatar has, are for the most part so close to lowsec, that every 2nd to 3rd mission involves a highsec/lowsec border crossing.

And because this is a mission devblog, I'd like to reiterate two things:
- why do some factions have L5 agents close enough to highsec to spawn missions there while others don't?
- pirate factions (major and minor) still miss their L5 agents

Aurre Fauralle
Posted - 2009.05.30 03:47:00 - [80]
 

I agree with Los Lecrosis, BRING BACK the level 5 agents in highsec! Why are all the highsec players getting stiffed, and the agents are all moving, (which really sucks) and we are being forced to move to lowsec, which is NOT COOL! CCP you are blowing it bigtime on this one, you will deter or lose a lot of your playerbase, especially younger players, who are more easily discouraged when FORCED to pvp!



Arekaine
Gallente
Shadowmen.
Galactic System Lords Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.30 04:02:00 - [81]
 

Sounds fine to me. Spreading out the lvl4 agents means all those adorable ninja salvagers will actuly have to work to find their targets. Less lag for everyone and more space will be filled up.

Lvl5s don't need to be in Hi sec. Just get a group and move in a PvP fleet. I run missions all the time with a PvP build and it works fine

Los Lecrosis
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.05.30 04:08:00 - [82]
 

Akrekaine youre missing the point. Not all people want to be forced to PVP. I want to be able to do L5 missions in Highsec, and not have a-holes trying to gank me the whole time. The missions are hard enough without having to worry about being blobbed by lowsec pirates in my expensive mission ships.

Vira Vix
Posted - 2009.05.30 04:09:00 - [83]
 

BRING BACK HIGH SEC L5 MISSIONS! WHY THE HELL THEY WERE REMOVED IN THE FIRST PLACE IS BEYOND ME. GET WITH THE PROGRAM CCP!

Knight Destroyer
Caldari
Redneck Messiahs
Posted - 2009.05.30 04:10:00 - [84]
 

once again haulers/traders are left out Sad

why cant create a few agents where they utilise a freighter? it be good to have level 4 hauling missions that require like 500k m3 haul meaning freighters have a good use for once.


any chance anyone at CCP see this and comment if can do something for the haulers of new eden with dusty freighters?Cool

Dramaan
Posted - 2009.05.30 04:16:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Aurre Fauralle
I agree with Los Lecrosis, BRING BACK the level 5 agents in highsec! Why are all the highsec players getting stiffed, and the agents are all moving, (which really sucks) and we are being forced to move to lowsec, which is NOT COOL! CCP you are blowing it bigtime on this one, you will deter or lose a lot of your playerbase, especially younger players, who are more easily discouraged when FORCED to pvp!





/sarcasm on: why not make hi se more profit then 0.0 move all good ore to hi sec so we don't have to pvp and take risk.
Make moon ming avibal in high sec so we empire can make lot of isk on /sacasm off

Chek in sydycate searc for good lvl 4 agents there is wery few of them.
How can alot guys run pirate mission in 0.0 and earn alot of isk and you can not do same in low sec?

And still there are no plex for pirate factions.

In eve if if you gona rp pirate faction you are worse off then those who rp empire factions.

time for ccp rely hit boost for pirate faction and more space for them.




Andysrighthandman
Posted - 2009.05.30 04:34:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Dramaan
Originally by: Aurre Fauralle
I agree with Los Lecrosis, BRING BACK the level 5 agents in highsec! Why are all the highsec players getting stiffed, and the agents are all moving, (which really sucks) and we are being forced to move to lowsec, which is NOT COOL! CCP you are blowing it bigtime on this one, you will deter or lose a lot of your playerbase, especially younger players, who are more easily discouraged when FORCED to pvp!





/sarcasm on: why not make hi se more profit then 0.0 move all good ore to hi sec so we don't have to pvp and take risk.
Make moon ming avibal in high sec so we empire can make lot of isk on /sacasm off

Chek in sydycate searc for good lvl 4 agents there is wery few of them.
How can alot guys run pirate mission in 0.0 and earn alot of isk and you can not do same in low sec?

And still there are no plex for pirate factions.

In eve if if you gona rp pirate faction you are worse off then those who rp empire factions.

time for ccp rely hit boost for pirate faction and more space for them.








how about having a pirate faction highsecConfusedQuestion

john roe
BearingPoint
Posted - 2009.05.30 05:02:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Kaakao
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
you added 23 new lvl 4 agents and didnt place a single freaking one of those in low sec??????

thanks for once again screwing over every single one that lives in low sec



Low sec already has plenty of systems with up to 3x Q20 lvl4 agents. Stop whining.



qft

john roe
BearingPoint
Posted - 2009.05.30 05:03:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Tressin Khiyne
Apparently CCP has NO intention of moving lvl 4s to lowsec. Every single new agent is in secure space.


usualy best lv.4 (q20) agents are in low sec, mate.

Mister Xerox
Posted - 2009.05.30 05:20:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Dramaan
Edited by: Dramaan on 28/05/2009 23:54:49
Is this a bad joke?

No new amarr agents

No new Minmatar agents

no new pirate agents.

No new agents in low sec or pirate faction space.




Word for word the sad truth... caldari do missions by quasi-macro half-asleep behavior as it is and they get 23 MORE??? WTF?

I'm still stuck with my sucky q3 l4 in Amarr highsec, no matter what system there's only 1 l4 whereas caldari may have 3 or more (all solidly bounded by riskless highsec). Matari have their grouped L4 agents 1j from lowsec if not *in* lowsec.

I thought L5 was supposed to be the upper limit of lowsec action, and there was once a suggestion of L6 for 0.0, but they've either failed (L5) or never been implemented (L6).

This is a joke, an insult. Might as well just throw out amarr/min/gal and make all new characters caldari.

Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
Posted - 2009.05.30 06:12:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
2) Introducing new agents somewhere else in the hope that the current mission hubs will get a bit relieved from the stress (serverside). I had the hope that the whole agent-quality and reward system would get renovated, it is just not up-to-date any more. Why didn't you introduce dynamic agent-quality so that the quality (and therefore reward) will be re-calculated each downtime (or every week) - more people using the agent will lower the agents quality, fewer people using the agent will rise the agents quality.

THIS. Shocked


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