open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: New Level 4 Agents
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Author Topic

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.29 07:51:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Caldari are the most used agents not because people like Caldari missions more but because they are those with the highest number of high quality level 4 combat agents (at least for kill missions).



I wondered about the same thing at first, then I understood.

CCP's aim in this isn't to correct the unbalance in agents repartition, but to spread the playerbase for technical purposes. Most players won't skill up for a whole faction just for that, so it makes sense to concentrate on the area where most players won't have a hard time moving because of standings.


More reason to add Ammar agents (and Minmatar).

Caldari mission runners have (normally) a high faction standing with Amarr, so switching to a Amarr high quality agent will be easy and fast.

To a lesser extent that hold true for Gallente and Minmatar.

Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Sarum Industries
Posted - 2009.05.29 08:44:00 - [32]
 

CCP, you can try to avoid it and set it back again and again, but there will be the time when you will have to deal with the TOTALLY screwed lvl 4 agent system... more high sec agents.. great idea..

Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
Posted - 2009.05.29 09:24:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Amberle Vale
Originally by: The Recession
Get the Lvl 4 agents to low sec. This is the fix Eve needs. Adding more lvl 4 agent to highsec is a short term solution.


I'm in disagreement with this, Lvl 5 agents should be made compelling enough to drive players into low sec.


There is no need to accomplish L5 missions, because the L4 missions have best reward with no risk atm.

Onyx Asablot
The Vicious Circle
Posted - 2009.05.29 09:25:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie

2) Introducing new agents somewhere else in the hope that the current mission hubs will get a bit relieved from the stress (serverside). I had the hope that the whole agent-quality and reward system would get renovated, it is just not up-to-date any more. Why didn't you introduce dynamic agent-quality so that the quality (and therefore reward) will be re-calculated each downtime (or every week) - more people using the agent will lower the agents quality, fewer people using the agent will rise the agents quality.



/signed

Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.29 09:59:00 - [35]
 

hey hey

i notice most of the major points have already been mentioned so i will skip those.

the whole agent systems needs a total rewrite tbh.

Thanks for the new Minmatar Admin agent though Rolling Eyes

Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.05.29 10:06:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/05/2009 06:36:29

I see you are repeating some old mistake:

Quote:
So, as part of our long-term plan, we've added twenty-three new level 4 agents to TQ and also moved one agent, most of them Caldari (since a substantial majority of players running missions do so in Caldari space).


Looking the new agents list I see:
2 new Gallente high quality agents, 7 new Caldari high quality agents, 1 new Minmatar high quality agents,

Caldari are the most used agents not because people like Caldari missions more but because they are those with the highest number of high quality level 4 combat agents (at least for kill missions).

And you go and add another bunch of high quality agents kill mission agents for them. Rolling Eyes I haven't checked if they are all in Caldari space, but it is probable that at least some of them are. Great way to add more congestion to the smallest of the empires and the one already most populated.


You should add high quality level 4 agents to Amarr (no high quality kill agent in high sec for what I know), Minmatar and Gallente (in that order). That will break the Caldari missions hubs more than adding some Caldari agent in less used systems.

Competition from the other races, not added offer for Caldari.

Edit: Note that, checking Cribba agent finder, Caldari already had more high quality level 4 kill missions agents than Minmatar and Gallente combined Exclamation.

Further edit: Add some low level pirate agent in low sec. That will help people interested in running pirate missions.


amarr does have a few high quality level 4 agents, there are a few level 4 q 20 agents that I can think of in amarrian highsec. they just happen to be in 1.0/0.9/0.8 space meaning I get better payouts from level 4 quality 18 in 0.5. (2 surveillance agents for ministry of war) and then another one like 3 jumps from amarr, might not be q20, but somewhat high quality.

Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
Posted - 2009.05.29 10:09:00 - [37]
 

YAY! More high quality level 4 agents in empire space. You rock CCP!



Rolling Eyes

Indigo Johnson
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.29 10:12:00 - [38]
 

This is interesting. Will the new "regig" of high sec missions, the removal of structures and the odd ship mean a decrease in the isk/hr of high sec missions. Surprised

Altaree
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.05.29 10:57:00 - [39]
 

REALLY!?!?!

Um, Right idea, wrong solution. Caldari agents aren't the problem. The EXTREME lack of good Level 4 Quality 18+ agents in other corps is. People cluster with caldari because that is where the good agents are. Give the other corps in other areas of space good agents too! When looking for a really good agent I look for:
1) Level 4, Q18+ combat agent. Hopefully more then one.
2) in a .6 or .5 system (better LP)
3) easy access to slots
4) a nice number of belts in the system or near by.
5) off the main pipes.

There are VERY few systems like this outside of caldari space. While in caldari space there are many.

Kronsur Boon
Posted - 2009.05.29 11:10:00 - [40]
 

This change looks like "feeding the fat kid". Adding more mission agents for the most popular races does, on the surface seem like a good idea, but this doesn't solve the problem of over crowded mission hubs.

Removing the smaller ships from the mission, also seems like a good idea, but again unless the remaining ships are beefed up, all the risk (being warp scrambled) is removed from these missions.

Unless there is a mechanic added to the game to make players move around the universe, players will always gravitate to the highest quality, safest mission agents.

I do hope this is the start of a number of changes to the mission system that will balance the risk & effort to reward.


Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2009.05.29 11:16:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Indigo Johnson
This is interesting. Will the new "regig" of high sec missions, the removal of structures and the odd ship mean a decrease in the isk/hr of high sec missions. Surprised



More like the opposite. Less lag, less worthless frigates to waste your time on and new lvl4 highsec agents. You can just focus killing ships, that earn you the big bucks and are easier to destroy with BS-size weapons. This is a buff to mission farming and so will increase the isk/hr of highsec missions. I'm not sure if the difference is anything worth while until we get to see how they actually tweaked the missions. Might be, that the situation will basicly remain as usual.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2009.05.29 11:22:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Kern Hotha
If you're really hoping that these agents will lure mission runners away I don't think it will succeed. The criteria for a good level 4 agent are:

1. Agent quality 15+
2. 0.5 or 0.6 system
3. No low sec within 2 (preferably 3+) jumps

By those criteria I see maybe one agent worth looking at on the list. Just sayin'.


This. Anyone who runs missions will eventually end up at the 'best' agent. These changes won't change that.
Only a change in game mechanics might change that.

Making Caldari an even more popular choice is of course epic fail.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2009.05.29 11:46:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Kern Hotha
If you're really hoping that these agents will lure mission runners away I don't think it will succeed. The criteria for a good level 4 agent are:

1. Agent quality 15+
2. 0.5 or 0.6 system
3. No low sec within 2 (preferably 3+) jumps

By those criteria I see maybe one agent worth looking at on the list. Just sayin'.


Kern and Chainsaw have already quite covered what I was planning to say after looking a bit at that devblog.

Altho I will add, that those are not the main criterias for creation of mission hub - the main criteria is having several agents in close proximity allowing one to 'cherrypick' only profitable missions without running into 4h timer. If agent cluster is combined with quoted 3 conditions you will get major missionrunning hub - even if you place it in hi sec pocket inside zerozero space.

XLR Eight
Viziam
Posted - 2009.05.29 12:58:00 - [44]
 

who cares about community feedback

typical

Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2009.05.29 13:42:00 - [45]
 

In the futile effort that these words will reach CCP ears, I make this post. This latest change only demonstrates again that CCP has lost their sense of direction in regards to EvE and are clueless as to what problems ail their game, let alone how to solve them.

The problems with Level 4 missions are the following:

# Risk vs reward ratio is out of balance. It is currently the most profitable profession in EvE.
# It's a profession that goes "against the grain" of EvE. It actually discourages in-game player interaction, and forces players to adapt ship combat tactics that have no use outside of missions.
# It's a low risk profession. Many here want to claim that it's a "No Risk" profession but that is incorrect. An example of "No Risk" professions are ninja salvagers.
# Imbalanced distribution of agents. The reason most mission runners are in Caldari space is because the highest amount of good mission agents are in Caldari space. As a result, "mission hub" systems are created where system traffic is in the hundreds and lag is omnipresent.

The solutions to these problems, in the proper order:

# Either increase the risk or decrease the reward. Both suggestions are being harped on constantly these days by forum lobbyists, whom want the game changed to suit their playstyle better. Do not give in to these demands. However, there is one solution that will go some way toward addressing this problem without catering to a specific part of the playerbase. See next point.
# Introduce Sleeper AI into all missions. It will encourage player interaction by forcing mission runners to band together to complete the missions, and will call upon new ship combat tactics, which are much closer to the "standard" combat tactics of EvE. Thus, a more stream-lined game.
# By introducing Sleeper AI into missions, you are increasing the risk by a huge factor. Caution must be taken in making sure the balance is restored, not thrown into the other direction (too much risk for the reward). This will require that all missions be revised to take the new AI into account. If done properly, this should result in a profession that is balanced (fair risk for a fair reward).
# The last point is what you were trying to address with this latest change, but utterly fail at doing by going the wrong way about it. You should not have added a single new Caldari agent, but added loads of new Amarr agents instead. In Amarr space. The Amarr faction has the largest space of all the four Empire factions, yet it's a veritable desert. It needs more content, like high quality agents.

My suggestion for your latest change? Roll it back so that all the new Caldari agents are Amarr agents in Amarr space. Let that one Caldari agent that moved stay at his new home, but that's about it. Also, fire whomever gave the green light on this change. You do not need someone this ignorant about the game working at the company.

Also, what happened to letting the playerbase having a voice about this BEFORE rolling this change in? Why was this not a part of a patch, and therefore introduced with a few days notice? This screwup of yours might have been avoided. It has actually come to that point that the playerbase knows better what's good (and not good) for the game than you guys do.

Originally by: "Chainsaw Plankton"
Sleeper AI in missions wont change anything as well missions are most often soloed and the dual boxers usually just throw enough tank on each ship that it will just be a minor annoyance to have your drones shot at.


For the low-level missions, what you say is true. But they're not the problem, are they? Sleeper AI makes it impossible to solo L4 missions, which is kinda the point. Care must be taken to ensure that the same applies for L3 missions, otherwise we'll see thousands of Ravens soloing L3 missions. Or just outright banning BS's from L3 missions. L5 missions will need a look as well, as they will become überhard, but barely worth it.

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.29 14:44:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: XLR Eight
who cares about community feedback LOUD NOISES!

typical
I fixed that for ya.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.05.29 15:14:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Zaknussem
# Risk vs reward ratio is out of balance. It is currently the most profitable profession in EvE.


That is not the right thread to discuss your ideas, but your above statement is so wrong that I cannot let it slip uncommented.

Running level 4 missions is one of the LEAST profitable professions in Eve. Yes, the least, your saw right.

What is more profitable you might ask? Trading is by far more profitable (e.g. rag to riches, apprx. 10 bil per month with only very little time each day invested), low sec/0.0 exploration, gas cloud harvesting/booster production, invention, wormholes, 0.0 ratting, moon harvesting, t2/t3-material reactions etc. all professions are much more profitable than running level 4 missions and need a lot less time.

Please stop throwing around completely wrong statements.

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.29 15:32:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Typhado3 on 29/05/2009 15:31:50
Originally by: Zaknussem

What is more profitable you might ask? Trading is by far more profitable (e.g. rag to riches, apprx. 10 bil per month with only very little time each day invested), low sec/0.0 exploration, gas cloud harvesting/booster production, invention, wormholes, 0.0 ratting, moon harvesting, t2/t3-material reactions etc. all professions are much more profitable than running level 4 missions and need a lot less time.

Please stop throwing around completely wrong statements.


Gonna have to say I disagree with the ones i bolded. low sec exploration is definetely not worth more than lvl 4's and 0.0 ratting is around the same (really conditional as to which ones better). As for gas harvesting.... seriously no it's pretty **** profit with rediculous investments and setup, and you say all these take less time than a lvl 4 mission?

Lrrp
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.05.29 15:40:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
CCP, you can try to avoid it and set it back again and again, but there will be the time when you will have to deal with the TOTALLY screwed lvl 4 agent system... more high sec agents.. great idea..


I know of 1 low sec system that has 4 lvl.4 Q20 agents and it is practically empty. So why put more agents in low sec if no one is going to use them? CCP correctly see's that the agent usage is in high sec. You pirates got what you wanted when missions became scannable, then when you saw low sec become a ghost town you now are whining to get all the lvl. 4's into low sec. Stop being so transparent.

Slave 2739FKZ
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.29 15:49:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Zaknussem
# Risk vs reward ratio is out of balance. It is currently the most profitable profession in EvE.


That is not the right thread to discuss your ideas, but your above statement is so wrong that I cannot let it slip uncommented.

Running level 4 missions is one of the LEAST profitable professions in Eve. Yes, the least, your saw right.

What is more profitable you might ask? Trading is by far more profitable (e.g. rag to riches, apprx. 10 bil per month with only very little time each day invested), low sec/0.0 exploration, gas cloud harvesting/booster production, invention, wormholes, 0.0 ratting, moon harvesting, t2/t3-material reactions etc. all professions are much more profitable than running level 4 missions and need a lot less time.

Please stop throwing around completely wrong statements.


The problem, contrary to popular and idiotic memes (risk vs. reward, lol) is that mission running has no competency between players, if quality of agents and numebr of missions given where a fuction of people running mission, scarcity and competition would get into play. Then we could start to see some interesting things, like mission runners deccing other runner just to control agents! Shocked

Couple that with nerfing of npc corps which protect players agaisnt any other players and all the "problem" would be fixed. Meanwhile ignorants can spin the memes "move the agents to low sec", "risk vs. reward") and other crapp like that.

Mission running should more like explroation and plexes, all the problem then would be finished, and better yet, CCP COULD control the biggest ISK faucet in the game.

Veng3ance
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:00:00 - [51]
 

Are you guys dense?

Removing frigs from missions and adding new agents in HIGHSEC just makes it now EVEN FASTER to grind missions (less frigs to kill) and more convenient.

Why don't you go finish the other so called "features" first.

CCP.... the mission running masters Rolling Eyes


Argus Greymoore
Gallente
Something for Nothing
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:02:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Argus Greymoore on 29/05/2009 16:03:36
Remove agent quality. This is something I've supported for a long time. If all L4 agents are the same in terms of payout for missions, you have less incentive to stay in a lagged out mission hub where there's a better chance for ninja salvagers.

Sure, the hard-core mission runners are going to still cluster where there's a group of L4 agents so they can accept only the most lucrative missions, but for the more casual mission runner, there'd be no reason to run a mission in the hub system when an L4 in a more quiet system will do.

Edit: Grammer.

Veng3ance
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:03:00 - [53]
 

Oh and less friggies means more "AFK" mode mission runners. Do you actually want people to play your game? Or do you want a bunch of chinese-esque farmers all over high-sec.

This blog is disgusting.

Bootch
Not so innocent bystanders
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:20:00 - [54]
 

Avele Lelynier is lvl 3, not 4

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:33:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Typhado3

Originally by: Gnulpie
gas cloud arvesting/booster production, invention, wormholes
...
much more profitable than running level 4 missions and need a lot less time.


Gonna have to say I disagree ... As for gas harvesting.... seriously no it's pretty **** profit with rediculous investments and setup, and you say all these take less time than a lvl 4 mission?


Ridiculous investments? 4-5 gas cloud harvesters and that's all.

I can say that I tried ALL of the things I mentioned, so I know what I talk about.

Cytoserocin gas ... just lookup the price in Jita if you want and then calculate how much you can harvest and then you easily see that I am right. Of course you must not harvest the cheap mykoserocin Razz

stupidity
Don't Dec.
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:59:00 - [56]
 

I have not yet seen anyone mention that this has already happened and we only hear about it after. I have been running my missions for my "NEW" agent since teh 24th when I noticed a LVL 4 high quality in a less laggy system. I am not sure when the change was made, but i have logs in my wallet from my "NEW" agent on the 24th.

Lrrp
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.05.29 17:07:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ


The problem, contrary to popular and idiotic memes (risk vs. reward, lol) is that mission running has no competency between players, if quality of agents and numebr of missions given where a fuction of people running mission, scarcity and competition would get into play.



You're kinda wrong here. High sec missions can still have the salvage taken and salvage can be worth fully half the value of the mission (i.e. worth as much as the bounties or more).
I also remember any number of times a high sec mission runner being ganked to get his expensive officer fittings.
Then there were the times a mission buster wold sneak in cloaked, and get close to the missioner in the hopes the runner would be using smart bomb and concorde would kill the missioner. So much for non player interactivity eh?

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.05.29 17:12:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Argus Greymoore

Remove agent quality. This is something I've supported for a long time. If all L4 agents are the same in terms of payout for missions, you have less incentive to stay in a lagged out mission hub where there's a better chance for ninja salvagers.



Even better - replace agent quality with a dynamic count of how many missions they have available. Agents with lots of missions available require lower standings to access (since they've got this big backlog of work to clear) and give better rewards (please work for me! I'll give you more money).

When someone accepts a mission from an agent that agent's available mission count decreases, agents with zero mission count will not give out any missions. To stop the universe running out of missions we can pick another random agents of the same level & faction and increment their pool of missions by 1.

That'll remove mission hubs altogether, and provide more incentives to go to agents in parts of space not frequented by other players.

Come on devs, this is really easy to implement and solves so many problems with overpopulated systems.

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.05.29 17:19:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Ulstan on 29/05/2009 17:26:10
Originally by: The Recession
Get the Lvl 4 agents to low sec. This is the fix Eve needs. Adding more lvl 4 agent to highsec is a short term solution.


That's a ******ed idea. The people who run level 4 agents in hi sec are simply not interested in going to low sec. They will run level 3's and/or quit the game.

The people interested in running L4's in low sec are already doing so, as thats' where the best L4 agents are.

There are issues with missions/agents. This blog doesn't address them nor does it appear to be intended to. CCP is adding some new agents to reduce congestion. That's it. They aren't overhauling the mission system.

if they were, I'd recommend getting rid of agent quality entirely. No one uses -18 quality agents ever. Those are all pointless agents. Then you could try to implement some sort of dynamic rewards based on how often the agent is used. This would make low sec agents give preposterously huge rewards because no one ever uses them, which would make slipping into low sec and running a mission or two for the 10m-20m bounties actually worth considering.

And the people saying missioning is the best profession for money making are sadly mistaken. They are also mistaken if they think it is a low risk or risk free profession. It is the riskiest hi sec profession available.

For better or worse, hi sec mission running has become a backbone of the EVE economy. It works out well for me, as I like to make my money off the market and L4 mission runners both supply and buy tons of goods. If they went away that would cripple large sections of the EVE market. Missioning is also very important because it scales infinitely, unlike mining or ratting or complexes. This gives people who can't be on right after down time something to do still.


Ghoest
Posted - 2009.05.29 17:44:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 29/05/2009 17:48:57

Lustrivik is a better Minmatar hub than the new Minmater agent hubs by far.
Why would anyone move?


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only