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SIlhohuette
Posted - 2009.06.04 03:22:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Infernal Travesty
Thanks for the advice I will seek out "Eve University" and tae it from there. Oh, for everyones info, I agree that WOW is redundant, and that's why when I seen this game, I was looking forward to playing it. I just wish that I can catch on that's all.



Eve University is awesome on paper, but unfortunately it was a total failure for my friend and myself. They were always at war. And when "at war" you're not allowed to do anything but join a fleet or sit in a station. You get penalized for missioning, mining etc during that time. And before anyone says it's for members protection please note we were warring with corps with like 3 people in them - it was stupid.

Many people were friendly, but there were enough jerks to make asking questions uncomfortable. Their intro for new members is near 80 emails, and they actually expect you to read them all and remember the information with fluency. Not only that, the most valuable portion of Eve University is available to anyone, member or not so theres not much reason to actually join.

See here

My friend and I ended up joining a smaller, family like corp and we're enjoying the game much more. So bear that in mind before applying with that botched project.

Olvel
Posted - 2009.06.04 16:30:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: SIlhohuette
Eve University is awesome on paper, but unfortunately it was a total failure for my friend and myself. They were always at war. And when "at war" you're not allowed to do anything but join a fleet or sit in a station. You get penalized for missioning, mining etc during that time. And before anyone says it's for members protection please note we were warring with corps with like 3 people in them - it was stupid.

Many people were friendly, but there were enough jerks to make asking questions uncomfortable. Their intro for new members is near 80 emails, and they actually expect you to read them all and remember the information with fluency. Not only that, the most valuable portion of Eve University is available to anyone, member or not so theres not much reason to actually join.

See here

My friend and I ended up joining a smaller, family like corp and we're enjoying the game much more. So bear that in mind before applying with that botched project.

It really depends on what you're looking for.

If all you want is an instruction book, then those pre-recorded classes will be great. And they really are very helpful. Some of the better documentation out there.

But EVE University is a lot more than just the pre-recorded classes. There are live classes, free/cheap skillbooks, tons of helpful people, free ship replacement during wartime, organized fleet PvP/mining/whatever operations, random contracts for free/cheap gear... All at absolutely no cost to the player - the normal tax rate is 0.0%

Part of what EVE University teaches you is how to exist in a player-run corporation. Part of what it takes to exist in a player-run corporation is following the rules of that player-run corporation. Obviously those rules will vary from one corp to another... Some of them are pretty lax... But you'll be expected to follow those rules. And if you can't follow those rules, there isn't much point in joining the corp because you'll just get booted before too long.

EVE University is a fairly large corp, which can be good or bad, depending on the day. It can be difficult to get a useful answer. It can be hard to be heard amongst all the other noobs. I can take a while for things to happen. It can be hard to get to know people. It can feel abstract and impersonal. Again, it depends on what you're looking for. If you want a family-type environment it can be hard to find that in a large corp.

SIlhohuette
Posted - 2009.06.04 20:32:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: SIlhohuette on 04/06/2009 20:49:42
Edited by: SIlhohuette on 04/06/2009 20:49:30
Edited by: SIlhohuette on 04/06/2009 20:45:29
Edited by: SIlhohuette on 04/06/2009 20:44:17
Edited by: SIlhohuette on 04/06/2009 20:43:07
Edited by: SIlhohuette on 04/06/2009 20:42:09
Edited by: SIlhohuette on 04/06/2009 20:33:15
Quote:

It really depends on what you're looking for.

If all you want is an instruction book, then those pre-recorded classes will be great. And they really are very helpful. Some of the better documentation out there.

But EVE University is a lot more than just the pre-recorded classes. There are live classes, free/cheap skillbooks, tons of helpful people, free ship replacement during wartime, organized fleet PvP/mining/whatever operations, random contracts for free/cheap gear... All at absolutely no cost to the player - the normal tax rate is 0.0%

Part of what EVE University teaches you is how to exist in a player-run corporation. Part of what it takes to exist in a player-run corporation is following the rules of that player-run corporation. Obviously those rules will vary from one corp to another... Some of them are pretty lax... But you'll be expected to follow those rules. And if you can't follow those rules, there isn't much point in joining the corp because you'll just get booted before too long.

EVE University is a fairly large corp, which can be good or bad, depending on the day. It can be difficult to get a useful answer. It can be hard to be heard amongst all the other noobs. I can take a while for things to happen. It can be hard to get to know people. It can feel abstract and impersonal. Again, it depends on what you're looking for. If you want a family-type environment it can be hard to find that in a large corp.



Eve corps don't teach people how to follow orders real life does. The military was my educator for instance and the bastards were cruel and efficient at it. So trust me when I say following order was not my problem, working beneath bad management, however, was. The first wardec came and all mining, missioning ceased. Fine I dealt with it. However, after being prohibited from leaving the station for a full week we're were only allowed a couple of days to pursue our own goals before we went to war again. This cycle of war continued for weeks until finally we quit. As I mentioned above we were warring with corps of like 3 people so there wasn't any fighting to be part of. We were literally just sitting in the station. Trust me, after 2 weeks of this I was ready to quit the game as this was a very lackluster intro to the game. Thankfully my friend stopped me.

The bottom line is this: Eve University essentially created nothing more than a database with a chat window. It's true that there are some perks like replacement ships and free skill books. But then, they only offer the cheapest of ships and books. These perks are so affordable to begin with that their practical value to the player is nearly negligible. Anything else is out of your pocket. Which is fine, but don't dress up the free stuff as more valuable than it is.

Since leaving the corp I've learned there's really nothing to be gained from the University. I'm not short on experienced/wealthy players to tap with questions or mountains of valuable data to sift through. But where I'm at now questions are actually answered, I get to explore this game as I want, and I'm developing fun, engaging relationships, which is the most important element in this game. I also get contracts and help, organized mining/missioning, advice and guidance.

I regret sticking with the Uni for as long as I did and that's why I made this post. Because I hope to prevent other new players from a bad experience as well. I'll concede that there's some great people in the University. In fact, I still have a few noted down so I can remember them later. But from real life experience I get a sense they've

Tranka Verrane
Mentors Administration
Posted - 2009.06.05 13:06:00 - [124]
 

I just want to agree with most of the comments about Eve-Uni; myself and some friends have been trying to get an alternative off the ground recently. We already have a channel and a mailing list and weekly op off the ground and have recently added a forum and are working on a dedicated killboard. The difference is we don't require that you follow any particular career path and we don't require that you join any particular corp or alliance.

You can find us in the Channel 'Mentors' ingame, just add it using the channels and mailing lists tab and typing the name in directly. We always welcome those seeking help and are always happy to accept those with wisdom to impart too.

Maestro Chemics
Radioactive Battle Bunnies
Posted - 2009.06.05 13:17:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular

As far as some of you stating that you do full time college, have a wife and kids, as well as holding a full time job while playing this game, you're so full of ****! If that's true, you should be actually be flying for NASA, so take that and shove it!!



Funny, funny, Funny. If you insult me over the internet, then I will insult you too.

Go **** yourself.


Kindest regards,

Your friendly neighbourhood "full time student"

Hakkar'al Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.05 16:40:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Edited by: Tuscun Nebular on 28/05/2009 16:45:59
Edited by: Tuscun Nebular on 28/05/2009 16:42:43
Edited by: Tuscun Nebular on 28/05/2009 16:04:36
I've been playing mmos for some years now, and i've played mostly D&Ds. My last game was with World of Warcraft, and when I seen this game I tought it would be a good change, and at first, I really liked it.

Then as I went on I realized that it's just too complicated


Not that anyone will read page umpteen and a half, but still

These are your opinions. They are obviously based on facts you *think* are correct but are totally incorrect. Except that the learning curve of this fantastically complex game is very steep.

Obviously you don't like steep learning curves - many, many others do. Eve is not for you, get over it. Dont know why venting in a game forum would do anyone any good really.

Get Paid
Posted - 2009.06.05 17:04:00 - [127]
 

Give it a few months then make up your mind. there isnt always going to be instant action every time you log in. its a game with in the game. Eventually if you stick with it you'll find your place and something that suits you and encounter obstacles once you've found something you enjoy.

CCP Eris Discordia

Posted - 2009.06.05 17:24:00 - [128]
 

I just want to drop in and say that the OPīs post means I should look at the tutorial for skill training and see if we can make it clearer and explain that some skills require other skill requirements to be trained first etc.

Sometimes messages of players that are leaving can be very valuable to us Smile If EVE isnīt for you thatīs a shame but if you gave up on EVE because of a tutorial that didnīt explain things well enough that is something CCP could improve.

maddmaxx III
Caldari
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2009.06.05 17:35:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Hakkar'al Gallente
Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Edited by: Tuscun Nebular on 28/05/2009 16:45:59
Edited by: Tuscun Nebular on 28/05/2009 16:42:43
Edited by: Tuscun Nebular on 28/05/2009 16:04:36
I've been playing mmos for some years now, and i've played mostly D&Ds. My last game was with World of Warcraft, and when I seen this game I tought it would be a good change, and at first, I really liked it.

Then as I went on I realized that it's just too complicated


Not that anyone will read page umpteen and a half, but still

These are your opinions. They are obviously based on facts you *think* are correct but are totally incorrect. Except that the learning curve of this fantastically complex game is very steep.

Obviously you don't like steep learning curves - many, many others do. Eve is not for you, get over it. Dont know why venting in a game forum would do anyone any good really.


lol I love how other people try and tell players eve is not for them, like they have some sort of say in wether a person should play this game.

Olvel
Posted - 2009.06.05 23:22:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: maddmaxx III
lol I love how other people try and tell players eve is not for them, like they have some sort of say in wether a person should play this game.

I don't think anybody feels that the OP shouldn't or can't play EVE... Merely that this probably isn't the game for them.

I mean, when the OP shows up complaining that the game is too time consuming and complicated, and indicates that it should be more like WoW... Well, maybe EVE isn't the right game for you.

Kezzle
Posted - 2009.06.06 15:51:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
I just want to drop in and say that the OPīs post means I should look at the tutorial for skill training and see if we can make it clearer and explain that some skills require other skill requirements to be trained first etc.


Worth mentioning the little icons that let you see the pre-reqs you're missing, in the Market window. That has application beyond just skills. Also, there are some odd skillbooks given out in the "career" tutorial mission sequences. Hacking, for example, is pretty useless to begin with and giving out the Hacking skillbook might encourage serious SP investment which is probably inappropriate for a beginner. Giving out Salvaging without Survey also seems a bit odd.

Cazzah
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2009.06.09 07:21:00 - [132]
 

To those who have had issues with Eve University, I'd like to apologise on behalf of the corp. We are always looking to improve our services to the newbies of Eve. I'm sure those of you who were frustrated with the wartime rules will be pleased to know that we have changed the way Eve Uni deals with wars.

When wars come a knocking the corp splits into peacetime and wartime divisions - the chat is taken to an out of corp chat channel - that way those who wish to mission, mine and work together may drop corp, while being treated as an Eve Uni member and being able to chat with corp members, ask questions etc in the shared chat channel.

As a result, those who want to fight, can fight, and those who don't want to don't have to even while classes continue to be taught and the chat channels are still used by everyone.

Even if you have left Eve University and have no intention of coming back, for those who have had issues with particular people in management, I recommend you send a message to Chks, our Student Relations manager, so that we become aware of the issues and you save future students from the problems you encountered.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.06.09 18:21:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
I just want to drop in and say that the OPīs post means I should look at the tutorial for skill training and see if we can make it clearer and explain that some skills require other skill requirements to be trained first etc.

Sometimes messages of players that are leaving can be very valuable to us Smile If EVE isnīt for you thatīs a shame but if you gave up on EVE because of a tutorial that didnīt explain things well enough that is something CCP could improve.
This has been my #1 complaint about EvE. I like the game, but EvE has, undeniably, the worst tutorial than any other video game in video game history.

Will Strafe
Caldari
The Praxis Initiative
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.06.09 22:39:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
You know. you ppl should here yourselves. If someone complains about the features in this game, right away, we're lacking the intellect smarts, or patents to continue. But yet a lot of the writers here clearly state that when they started playing, they were also intimidated and in some cases, they actually quit and returned to the game on several occasions. the developers should have it the reverse, the games attractions should entice the player, not chase them away, and a lot of the posters admit that they were chased away at first.

As far as help in the help chat is concerned, just stay there and see what being discussed, that's if you can see what's being writing there. At times you can't slow up the scroll because of the spam that being displayed, and then most times, when you ask a volunteer for some guidance, your told "Read the tutorial" That's help! The tutorial doesn't tell you which skills to buy/train first! because I'm so new, I don't know too much about this game. I don't know where I'm going with it! Example of what I'm trying to convey is, if you have the money to buy skills and you don't really know what to train, or what part may fit your ship, and you buy that item, and it's no good or you have to do 3 prerequisites, so now, whatever little isk I had is gone on something worthless at the time, and you're out of luck! Why can't this game be setup to GUIDE a person in the right direction? In most games your block from doing or buying something that you don't need at that particular time. Yet, I have to look at hundreds of item/skills to actually see what prerequisites I would need, now when you're totally new to the game, It gets confusing, and by some posters own admittance, it is frustrating!

As far as some of you stating that you do full time college, have a wife and kids, as well as holding a full time job while playing this game, you're so full of ****! If that's true, you should be actually be flying for NASA, so take that and shove it!!

Now in response to some of you stating that I'm looking for "handouts" "Free stuff" "Isk" "having my hand held" Is nonsense! If I'm playing a game, I want to earn what I get, otherwise the fun is nonexistence for me, so take that **** and shovel it somewhere else. being I already bought this game, and have a 60 day free subscription, I'll give it a shot and make the best of it.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste any more of my time writing for tit and tat which game is better and such, it's just not productive. From now on, before I purchase a game, I'll make sure that I read the reviews first. With all of this reading that you guys are doing, why not check out the gamer magazine reviews in regard to this game on avg. it gets an 6.5 to 7.0 WOW gets 9.5 I know, I know, 'GO BACK TO WOW YOU LOSER"


Look, take my advice, I honestly donīt think this game is for you. How long have your complaints been legit, and for how long have you just been trolling now?

Thing is, you could go all heartened up in here, realising grownups find their kicks here, but as I read you; first time someone gives you a punch to the nose the whole ordeal with you will start up again.

WoW... yes itīs an MMO, theres an endboss in there. Game keeps directing you towards it. And the grind keeps getting heavier and heavier as you get closer.

Theres no Darth Vader in Eve, the game doesnīt point you towards any endboss and a fine title. The thing is, if you're going to play Eve like you play WoW, then you will end up the equivalent of a WoW chinese farmer. And those reviewers who didn't get Eve, I know thats exactly what they did. And you will too and will never get it.

The thing is, Eve is space. And if you are not in there somewhere fighting for territory, then you aren't playing it. Ask the alliances, ask the pirates, ask the bigtime trader and the merc corp wardeccing. Ask the Carebear billionaires, they all know. They fight for territory.

Xiao LoPan
Posted - 2009.06.10 01:17:00 - [135]
 

If you want a simpler casual friendly game, there are plenty out there, you'll be happier playing those than in trying to get eve turned into one, if you want a scifi game there are a few coming down the pike as we speak.

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.06.10 11:18:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 10/06/2009 11:21:48
As a new player myself I found the new tutorials very good and they DID cover the aspects the Op complained about in great detail. Eve will always be a game where players have to think a bit and work out things for themselves which is why its so refreshing from the patronising idiot proof games out there which I got to hate.

Its not hard to push a button to see how it works or see what happens if you double click in space (which IS in the tutorial and its obvious anyway to be honest) EVE makes it VERY clear its not a game for those who want it easy yet in my experience its not actually that hard at all.

And seriously who reads manuals for a MMORPG? They are out of date before they even get to the printers. Its a lot more fun working it our for yourself anyway, its why I like this game. Making mistakes has value and is part of the game. Learning any MMORPG is part of the game. EVE is not a game to rush or expect to power level in a week so you can fly around in flashy ships and show off to your mates. Its far deeper than that. Learning the game is a fun aspect not an annoyance to get round.

EVE has the best player support I have ever seen with countless resources and guides. There is even beginner Corps to help players out and players who spend their own free time to help others. What other game does that? But when I look at the beginners channel its clear the majority have not even done the tutorials or think to 'click the button and see for yourself' Really if a player can't work out the basics he is better off playing a lot easier game anyway.

Unfortunately a certain popular MMORPG has programmed players to expect to be hand held every step of the way. If they do not understand something its the games fault, its never them and the scream on the forums about it always claiming 'I have a life I don't have time...your all elitists..etc etc'. (I know as I played it for 4 years and watched as the moaners and the lazy took over all aspects of the game and it became idiot proofed to the point of boredom, including even the high end game)

As to that review its clearly wrong. The vast majority of reviews that are not extremely old or plain incorrect give very good marks for this game. I saw a review yesterday on a popular game site that stated the ONLY way to make ISK was to mine...how wrong can that review get? And anyone that plays a game without selecting several reviews to read to get the feel of the game is not doing even basic research. Reading one bad review is not research.

And then you have a 14 day free trial to try it out. I cant really see EVE doing any more than they have without dumbing the game down which would be a tragedy of course.

EVE with its training system is the least time consuming as well, the assertion its not is plain made up. What other game can I log off for days or weeks and still level up?

EVE used to be a hard game to get into, I know that from when I played a few years ago. That's changed a lot now.

Grek Forto
Crosshair Corp
Posted - 2009.06.10 14:45:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Edited by: Tuscun Nebular on 28/05/2009 20:59:42

YEAH! I looked up those out of game tools in the forums as you said, and there's nothing but compatibility problems and running issues. Why should I have to spend countless hours reading forums from other players? The program should be set up where a person isn't intimidated by the game. A persons first experiance should be pleasant and fun, then as you go further into the game, it becomes more challenging. By the way, is eft and evemon programs from eve online, or are they some sort of hacks? If they are hacks, you can be banned! either way, I wis that I could get a refund for this game. Oh, by the way, just take a peek at those magazine reviews! These are professionals in gaming and they all agree that eve isn't such a great game....


EVEMon and EFT are not "hacks" you noob. And secondly, EVE got rated 88% of 100% in PCgamer Sweden, which they say is a very good score. They say that it is hard learn, but once you have learned it is fun as hell. Not every MMO is easy-mode like WoW, which also takes time to be good at you sod.

Sky Montana
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.06.10 15:18:00 - [138]
 

I got to your first complaint... and it was stupid. So I stopped. If anything this game caters to people with no time to actually play it. Skill training doesn't require you to play the game... the only reason to play is to get ISK. Games allows you to keep advancing your character even if life suddenly gets a bit busy.


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