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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.28 22:11:00 - [31]
 

25 and pursuing a medical degree

Six Across
Posted - 2009.05.28 22:13:00 - [32]
 

/facepalm...

Anyway. Tuscum, the reason I believe that players are allowed to purchase anything in the game is to ensure that they learn from their mistakes. Addmittedly it's very annoying when it happens, but this leads people to check their purchases much more quickly.
Also, it allows you to buy multiple skillbooks in order to have them ready when you need them; thus allowing you to do a quick trip to pick up all the books you need before learning them in peace. Probably more applicable to pirates than new players like yourself (and me).

It took me a dozen trial accounts to settle in to Eve. But now after a couple of months it's become mesmeric. I really hope you find aspects of this game that you like, and that you give a game this deep enough time to sink in. If after 60 days or however long it's still not for you, you'll know why.

All the best.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.05.28 22:21:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
If you're not eligable for a certain skill/item your basically blocked from that area, and guided in the right direction. Why isn't it like that in this game? i.e. I bought certain sills and when I went to train them, a message then comes up, well you not eligable to train that skill/item, and I have to research what I have to train as a prerequsite and that goes on thruouth the game.


EVE is an open game. The game client does not know what you're buying the skill book for. Many a trader makes some decent money buying skillbooks and selling them again - you don't need to be able to train the skill for that. If the game would block you from buying skills you can't use, you'd also be limited in your trading options.
Now that's just one example. The sandbox nature of EVE makes having restrictions very difficult.

TraininVain
Posted - 2009.05.28 22:22:00 - [34]
 

OP, you're right, EVE is pretty overwhelming for the new player.

What you can do is go to the "Settings" tab on the market screen and play with the options there some. Then you can use the "Browse" tab.

TBH though, a lot of the long term appeal of EVE is the depth and complexity.

Most MMOs have a relatively short burn-out time. It's about 2 years generally.

People tend to stick around a lot longer in EVE because there's more to do.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2009.05.28 22:33:00 - [35]
 

I'm 42. I love EVE because of its complexity. I paid for a year in advance after the first day.

I was completely lost when I first launched the client, but got all the basics down in about a week.

I surf these forums way to much, and can tell you that EVE is the most friendliest and helpful MMO community you will find... when they aren't killing each other. Heck pirates in EVE will often explain what you did wrong if you ask.

I must admit I read a lot about EVE. The game is so big that one has to. For example, the manufacturing side of EVE is so large that common ship modules can take the efforts of literally hundreds of people and large alliances to make possible.

Had you joined a helpful corporation, like say EVE University, I think you may have had completely different experience.

Procopius
Posted - 2009.05.28 22:35:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Flying ZombieJesus
Edited by: Flying ZombieJesus on 28/05/2009 18:59:16
Theres your skill curve






This was literally the funniest thing I've seen in years.

Grann Thefauto
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.28 22:44:00 - [37]
 

This game would be insanely boring if it didn't have the depth it did, whats why I don't play WOW. The reason we play Eve is because we like the complexity. I only play a few hours a week and work full time, but I'm still able to do fine. Heck, I even do PVP and exploration, some of the most complicated things in the game.

If you want mind numbing grinding, hand holding, and simplicity go play WOW; if you want a complex, brutal, and challenging game play Eve. Some people just don't like Eve for its Eveness and thats fine.

Shoa Jinn
Posted - 2009.05.28 22:52:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
I'm 42. I love EVE because of its complexity. I paid for a year in advance after the first day.

I was completely lost when I first launched the client, but got all the basics down in about a week.

I surf these forums way to much, and can tell you that EVE is the most friendliest and helpful MMO community you will find... when they aren't killing each other. Heck pirates in EVE will often explain what you did wrong if you ask.

I must admit I read a lot about EVE. The game is so big that one has to. For example, the manufacturing side of EVE is so large that common ship modules can take the efforts of literally hundreds of people and large alliances to make possible.

Had you joined a helpful corporation, like say EVE University, I think you may have had completely different experience.


you nailed alot of what eve is right there... cooperation. my copr is just getting into capital manufacturing and it often takes 15-20 people to crank them out in any decent amount of time

to the OP: eve is not meant to be "easy" at the begining. it starts hard and THEN gets easier. imo this is a good thing as it weeds the undesierables out much quicker. if you hate it dont give us a wall of text. just leave quietly.

Plexxy
Posted - 2009.05.28 23:01:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Player six across...Thanks you for being so understanding. For me, I don't know where to start in this game. i.e. which skills and such should I buy/train first? In other games it's not really a guessing game! If you're not eligable for a certain skill/item your basically blocked from that area, and guided in the right direction. Why isn't it like that in this game? i.e. I bought certain sills and when I went to train them, a message then comes up, well you not eligable to train that skill/item, and I have to research what I have to train as a prerequsite and that goes on thruouth the game. It's frustaiting and intimidating to a new player, and when I ask for help in the rookie chat, all I get is read the tutorial. after reading the abusive responses to my conerns, naturally I become defensive. Why can't some of the players here guide me as where to go, and what to do? Anyway, tanks.

There are mechanisms to help prevent you from buying skills and items you cannot use. When you show info on something, there is a prerequisites tab. When you browse the market and look at a subset of items, there will be icons indicating whether or not you meet the prerequisites as well, but show info is always better.
As far as getting started on training, the best way is to start getting learning skills up to 4 if you don't know what else to train. This will give you plenty of time to think about what you want to do.

Procopius
Posted - 2009.05.28 23:01:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Shoa Jinn

just leave quietly.


If only everyone who leaves or is eternally disgruntled just did this...

Asarah
First Star To The Right
Posted - 2009.05.29 00:09:00 - [41]
 

Quote:
the developers made this game for space enthusiasts


Exactly, hammer meet nailhead. Either you are or you arent. You aren't, so kindly GTFO and stop trying to tell the devs what to do with their game.

Infernal Travesty
Something Rotten
Posted - 2009.05.29 00:09:00 - [42]
 

I can understand how Eve seems a bit overbearing at first. I learned a lot through talking to others and asking questions.

When something is difficult you can't just turn round and say "this is ****" or you'll never amount to anything in life.

If you really want to get more into the game, join a player corp like Eve University, as earlier mentioned. They can teach you a huge amount.

Failing that... ask questions. If you don't like the rookie help channel (I agree) then use the forums or ask some random person in a local channel, or hell... ask me.

As for Evemon and EFT, they are not hacks and perfectly safe for your computer. They do not affect the game in anyway, they just take specific pieces of information and allow you to create skill plans and fit ships without spending all that isk on a mistake.

Choose a path. Plan your journey. Enjoy where it takes you.

Tranka Verrane
Mentors Administration
Posted - 2009.05.29 00:36:00 - [43]
 

I'm starting to get tired of the people who come whining on the forums asking for Eve to be dumbed down because they don't get it. It's the same kind of mentality that has that damn paperclip popping up every five seconds. Not all of us need hand holding, some of us like to find things out for ourselves, and only ask when we get stuck on something.

Eve is a niche product. Go to the News-stands and you will find lots of easy puzzle books to while away the hours with simple wordsearches, but some people like the challenge of the Times cryptic crosswords. Personally I can't do them, but do I write the Times scathing letters telling them they must make them easier so more people can do them? No I do not. I just don't do them.

I tried WoW. I didn't like it. Did I inhabit the WoW forums telling them how rubbish their game is? No, I just didn't continue playing.

If someone comes on the forums and tells us they have been playing for years and the game would be so much better if only x did/did not happen, I and many others will consider it. This kind of pathetic weaselly rant gets us nowhere.

Online games have a trial for a reason. Most games you buy from the shop will accept them back if you hate them.

If you are asking for help, then ask for it, but telling people who like the game that it sucks is just inflammatory and, plainly, wrong.

Tuscun Nebular
Posted - 2009.05.29 00:36:00 - [44]
 

Infernal Travesty
Thanks for the advice I will seek out "Eve University" and tae it from there. Oh, for everyones info, I agree that WOW is redundant, and that's why when I seen this game, I was looking forward to playing it. I just wish that I can catch on that's all.

Carlton Foster
Torque Industries
Posted - 2009.05.29 00:40:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Carlton Foster on 29/05/2009 00:42:29
Edited by: Carlton Foster on 29/05/2009 00:41:12
Number 1 piece of advice.....slow down and read EVERYTHING. Seriously, there is a lot of information out there. Go to every single screen, click on every single tab and read every single word on the screen. Right click on everything and read all the options.

For example you will notice you can right click on a skill book and select show information. Read every single word on every single tab of the show information window. You will notice a tab call prerequisites. Notice that you require some other skills before your can use that skill. Right click on those other skills and select show information, then continue this process until you know everything there is too know.

If you don't like to read then you are going to have to ask a lot of questions and hope you find someone nice enough to help you.

Eve is a thinking game. It will not hold your hand and it isn't designed too. Part of the fun is figuring it all out.

Number 2 piece of advice....as others have mentioned, join Eve University. It is a corporation specifically formed by players and for players to help them get started with the game. To learn how to join search for the corporation Eve University in the Peoples and Places window.

Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar
Noonday Sun Corp
Posted - 2009.05.29 00:44:00 - [46]
 

Eve can be very intimidating at first. That's the price you pay for have deep gameplay. The secret is to specialize in a specific area and learn it. Then you can branch out into another area. I started with mining, then I went into manufacturing, then mission running and exploration. All the while I was learning what I like to do and what I didn't. Specialization is the key when you start out.

BTW, I'm 50 and have been playing for almost 3 years now. I played WOW for a year and a half before that and leveled 3 characters to 60 (the max when I played). By the end, I was totally burned out. By contrast, every time I think I'm getting tired of Eve, I can find something different to train for that gets me interested again, because the game has so much depth.

Tuscun Nebular
Posted - 2009.05.29 01:08:00 - [47]
 

OK guys, and again thanks for the advice. I guess that I'll give it another go, and joing "Eve University". and i'll try to make time to read EVERYTHING? I work on average 12 hours a day on my job, and it's not going to be easy, but i'll give it another try...I see divorce in my near future (Kidding)Thanks again.....

Tranka Verrane
Mentors Administration
Posted - 2009.05.29 01:25:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
OK guys, and again thanks for the advice. I guess that I'll give it another go, and joing "Eve University". and i'll try to make time to read EVERYTHING? I work on average 12 hours a day on my job, and it's not going to be easy, but i'll give it another try...I see divorce in my near future (Kidding)Thanks again.....


You don't need to read everything; as stated above pick what you want to specialise in and read a guide on that. When you have that down do the same with the next thing. Don't try to do it all at once.

Eve is a shoot-em-up game, a trading game, a strategy game, a stealth game, and a whole lot of other games and meta games besides, all combined into one package. Concentrate on one at a time.

Xiao LoPan
Posted - 2009.05.29 02:16:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Beovylf
Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
Edited by: Tuscun Nebular on 28/05/2009 16:45:59
Too bad because it as a good story line. (Space adventure) the term used loosely


This is hilarious. Newsflash... EVE is a SPACE ADVENTURE.

Quote:

For the most part the developers made this game for space enthusiasts with no room of simplification to new commers!


What the F is a commer? Is that some slang term for commie?


aren't those the new race in "alien nation"

Morbius Titus
Posted - 2009.05.29 02:26:00 - [50]
 

Oh good troll is good.
I bow before you sir, because surely you can not be serious and all that.
I do not know what is worse?! You with your posts or so many people taking it seriously, even trying to help you. Either way, you should be kind of ashamed of yourself because, because of people like you, genuine players needing help will be getting it less and less.

Tranka Verrane
Mentors Administration
Posted - 2009.05.29 02:39:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Morbius Titus
Oh good troll is good.
I bow before you sir, because surely you can not be serious and all that.
I do not know what is worse?! You with your posts or so many people taking it seriously, even trying to help you. Either way, you should be kind of ashamed of yourself because, because of people like you, genuine players needing help will be getting it less and less.


Tbh your post is more of a troll than his is. Help is elastic, we have more time to reply than we need, and we have time to help those who have actual questions as well as respond to whiners. Believe it or not this part f the forums is the only oe that is mainly sensible questions and not whines of oe sort or another.

Linesh Motex
Posted - 2009.05.29 04:05:00 - [52]
 

This game is time consuming but it's actually not as time consuming as WoW. People complain all the time about how they need to spend weeks training skills. In WoW you are going to have to be in game every day to get up to the end game and then play 5 hours a day just to play with the big boys.

In EVE you can set a skill to train and go do something more productive, yes it may not be what your paying for but i love the fact that i can get stuff done while leading a more healthy social life then i had when i was hardcore WoW raiding. EVE is the mold breaker in the MMO world. I've only been playing for about a month and think this game is awesome.

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.05.29 05:00:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Morbius Titus
Oh good troll is good.
I bow before you sir, because surely you can not be serious and all that.
I do not know what is worse?! You with your posts or so many people taking it seriously, even trying to help you. Either way, you should be kind of ashamed of yourself because, because of people like you, genuine players needing help will be getting it less and less.


Why does every single thread have to have someone calling it a troll? Sometimes people just aren't happy.

Th0rG0d
Terminal Pharmaceuticals Inc.
Posted - 2009.05.29 05:04:00 - [54]
 

Eve takes patience, and fairly quick comprehension skills. The first time I bought anything, I bought it 4 times before I realized that it was in another station....Embarassed

As for training, I went 2+ days before realizing that I should always have something training. Thank Go..CCP for the training queue!! If you don't know what to train, train anything you have, Frig to lvl 5 is a good start, and will take you some time till you start to get a hang of it.

You don't need all the time in the world, just an hour or so a day working through the tutorials or less if that is all you got. Eventually you will start slacking in other areas of life to make time for EvE thoughLaughing


Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.05.29 05:08:00 - [55]
 

When posting the EVE Learning Curve, can you also post a link to the EVE Wiki New Citizens Useful Threads page?

Thankyou :)


M4U53R
Gallente
The Aussie Connection Corp
Posted - 2009.05.29 06:33:00 - [56]
 

Yes, it's very complicated and confusing. Armor hardners, resistance plating, energized plating... wtf? There are SO many items, it's extremely confusing. Not to mention, where do you get what from? How do I use X? Why won't Y talk to me? Why did that guy just blow up someone?

So of course I love it. ^_^

It takes thought. If you want a more casual game, there are plenty out there - good ones too, I'm not putting any down. If you want one you can sink your teeth into, do many different things, than Eve is likely more your style. You don't need to do hours of research (but it helps). You can simply make mistakes, most are easy to recover from. The epic arc/newbie mission/tutorials really do teach you most of what you need to know: read those and you're set for a long while.

It's a good thing it's as hard as it is though, because it retains interest longer. There are a lot of people who enjoy the challenge. Yes, wrecking your 1.5 billion ISK ship is heartbreaking, but that makes it all the more valuable as well. Ok, maybe not heartbreaking... it's not like we were dating... but still, it chafes pretty good.

Ever wonder why people get bored with some of the more casual games and bounce from newest to newest? No, it's not really the bugs. It's because they have no depth.

Anyway, regarding some of your actual points - skills.. so you trained a few you don't need, so you bought a few you didn't need (yet). Someday you probably will use those. It's not like you really wasted time! As for not locking you out... that'd take away the reality. First off, some people trade. Buy low, sell high, including skills (although tbh mostly I think those are people, who, like you, bought the wrong skill). You'd leave them out in t he cold just because they already had it? Or found someone who'd bought it by accident, and didn't care or didn't know they could sell it for pretty much what the NPCs sell it for? That's one aspect. Another is, hey want if you wanted to train it later? I've done that - buy it when I have money (since I can never seem to hold onto it :P) and leave it in the station til I can use it. That's planning, that is. Again, you'd leave that out?

And frankly, if you're not used to reading what you buy/are going to buy now, be warned: caveat emptor rules the market place. If you see a deal too good to be true, it probably is! Buying the wrong skill is like a minor wake up call to learning to check a little bit more carefully. The market is more or less governed by very realistic principles - which is what makes it fun!

As for it being a great game like wow - I'm sorry to inform you, it already is a great game and it's nothing like WoW. Thankfully.

Oh and I'm 39 with 3 kids :)

Kezzle
Posted - 2009.05.29 06:45:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Kezzle on 29/05/2009 06:47:49
Unforgiving? No. Since cash is so easy to come by, and mostly what happens, at the most reductionist level, when you screw up is that you lose some money, I reckon it's really rather forgiving. If you want to get everything right first time, and never take a little step back that can be easily regained, then yes, there are many pitfalls.

The three "career path" tutorials cover a lot of stuff you need and making them mandatory would improve the new player experience, IMO, but would be contrary to the spirit of the game. They also don't cover one or two vital aspects.

Edit: Oh yes, and the reason people are allowed to buy skills they aren't eligible to "inject" yet is so that they can buy a whole planned skill-path at one visit to the skills shop. Otherwise there'd be a long gap between finishing training the prereq. and starting on the skill you were aiming for. If you have already fetched the skillbook, the gap is only as long as it takes to return to the relevant hangar.

aDore Him
Posted - 2009.05.29 07:57:00 - [58]
 

You should not try to understand everything:

Jump into your ship.
Do what you want to do and do just that.
Get better at this.
.
.
.

I never was in the industry or research tab at a starstation, I never clicked on a blueprint... Why? Its stuff that has no effect on me and probably never will.
On the other side I browse the marked for combat stuff very often and try to get as much out of the energy grid of my ship as possible.


If you want to learn everything at once the learning curve is a ****ing wall... If not it gets better ;)

Vain Eldritch
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.29 08:17:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Tuscun Nebular
]When they made this game, they forgot to take into account that there's working people out there and catered the game for mostly young people who for the most part are students.


I'm considerably older than the average age of Eve players (28), have a job and a family, and I think the exact opposite. Eve allows me to play and advance, due to the skill system, while fitting actual ATK time around my busy life. In my case, Eve is the perfect game.

Cowboy Nuggets
Minmatar
DruNks In SpAce
Posted - 2009.05.29 08:35:00 - [60]
 

I scanned most posts, but didnt see this addressed:

SKILLS - If your browsing the market for skills and you see a little book icon with a red background, then you dont have the prerequisites to train that skill. If you see a little book with a green backgroud, then you do have the prereq's to train the skill. If you see a check-mark instead of either aforementioned book icons, then you already have that skill trained.

It seems kinda intuitive, but some people may not get this right off the bat. Yes, there is a huge learning curve to Eve, but it's well worth it to learn this game. Myself, I had been off and on trying to get into this game, until finally I joined Eve University, and then I really started to learn things and get into the game. I'd suggest joining some type of training corporation, the game totally transforms once you go from noob corp to a real corp.


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