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Turin
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.05.28 15:49:00 - [271]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Originally by: Malcanis
...Likewise these missionbears you're trying to reason with. They don't care that their activity wrecks the game in numerous ways, so your arguments that missions should be reformed because of this damage carry no weight with them...

...So they'll lie, strawman, throw abuse, etc etc etc. I went through all this last year...

...I tried my level best and ran into the same class of pig-headed, blind, selfish, obstinate and mendacious fools that you're arguing with now...

It's a good thing you're above us all in your high horse sniping your usual hating rhetoric from the clouds. Keep hatin' away o/.


Matrix here is a particularly fine example of the type of poster I was referring to.



Malcanis here, is an excellent example of the type of poster I was refering to.

Turin
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.05.28 15:54:00 - [272]
 

Originally by: skye orionis
What I've been advocating is a simple dynamic agent quality system which models mission scarcity.

Agents keep track of how many missions they have available, and as users accept a mission from one agent, another random agent has their pool of missions increased. Agents with a larger pool of missions will have lower standing requirements (because they need *someone* to do these missions), and will offer better rewards. When all an agents missions are gone they won't give any more.

So there are
* The pool of missions *never* runs out, there's always an agent with missions for you somewhere in the universe.
* Popular agents will have very few missions available, will require higher standings, and give lower rewards. Less popular agents will start to give better rewards, and give them to whoever they can get to take the missions.
* This means that mission hubs would disappear, the best place to do missions is where nobody else is doing them. This is simple supply & demand.
* agents in low-sec will be the best agents, because the supply of mission runners who aren't afraid of low-sec is very small.

The awesome thing about this, is that from a programming perspective this ridiculously simple to implement, and it regulates one of the biggest sources in the system.

Here' the thread



I think your idea sucks.

1.) Agents in low sec already offer far better rewards than empire agents. It doesnt matter. Missions runners will NEVER go to low sec in mass. THey dont want to be ganked. And you know they would be.

And if your in a ratting / mission ship, you will have NO chance in a PVP fight. No one wants that.

2.) Youll have a lot of instances of someone having to jump 15-20 gates per mission. Youll spend far more time traveling, and far less time killing. Screw that. Id rarther watch paint dry than make a ton of gate jumps just to run one mission, only to have to do it again to run another mission.

So, no thanks. And I dont even run missions. I mine for my money.



Nouva MacGyver
Caldari
MacGyver Communications
Posted - 2009.05.28 16:32:00 - [273]
 

Originally by: Lrrp
You complete moron, Go and show everybody here how lvl 4 missions are such great isk opportunity's. Take any agent and average the isk made over 10 consecutive missions and divide by the time it takes to do the missions. In the end you will realize that with the price of trit being what it is, in the same time span you could mine Veld and make as much isk. But then you know that.


But you see, missions are infinite, with you (the player) being able to run as many as you're able and willing whilst you're logged on whereas Veldspar is finite, depending on what has been mined prior by yourself or your competition (other miners, ore thieves, etc). I'm afraid you've arrived at a flawed result of averages based on hypotheticals not taking these factors into consideration.

Regards.

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.05.28 16:33:00 - [274]
 

The only reason I stopped running missions in lowsec is heavy interdictors.

Putting all lvl 4's into lowsec wouldn't make me go back.

Black Leather
Posted - 2009.05.28 16:33:00 - [275]
 

There is one thing and one thing only that would get me running missions in low sec space.

As prolly 4 out of 5 will end in a gank, the missions can't be completed and after a day I would not have the standings to run them anyway.

The solution is to remove or drastically reduce the standing loss for non completed missions from low sec agents.

With no worries about standing loss I would be happy to take the extremely high risk of running low sec missions against the dubious chance of coming out of them alive and a little bit ahead in the amount of ISK in my wallet.


skye orionis
Posted - 2009.05.28 16:40:00 - [276]
 

Originally by: Turin

1.) Agents in low sec already offer far better rewards than empire agents.
2.) Youll have a lot of instances of someone having to jump 15-20 gates per mission.



you really need to learn to add 1 & 2 together -
'Agents in low sec will offer better rewards and have more missions available so you won't have to travel around looking for agents in hi-sec that have missions availabl'

Originally by: Turin

And if your in a ratting / mission ship, you will have NO chance in a PVP fight. No one wants that.



Quotes like these are utterly ridiculous, PVP fits aren't magically better than mission fits. PVP fits have to sacrifice slots for things like warp scramblers. And then if they want to invade your mission space they'll need an expanded scanner to scan you down in your mission space, and then they need to have a PVP fit with an afterburner rather than an MWD.
Basicly, a solo PVP ship is going to be at a disadvantage to a solo PVE ship when compared in terms of tank & gank.

The mythical solopwnmobile does not exist.

But, pirates, unlike missioners are quite happy to work in gangs, that's how they offset their disadvantage. So, all missioners need to do is make use of the MM part of MMORPG and make some friends.

Shaun Klaroh
Caldari
Universal Fleet Operations
Posted - 2009.05.28 16:46:00 - [277]
 

I've been reading into this PvP thing and it looks like it could be fun, but at the same time, from what I've been hearing, making a living off of it is near impossible without exposing yourself to other pirates when moving goods.

Either way, the decisions I made regarding my mission work are pretty much echoed:

Standing Loss for failed missions.
Ship replacement costs.
Fitting differences. (Heavy missiles or torpedoes for L4s versus hitting fast moving frigates?)
Gloatmail
Public Killboards

If those change in a few ways, I'd move out to see a bit of low-sec running, but getting caught isn't just an annoyance at this point, it is a complete and utter devistation to a new mission runner's wallet. Don't forget that these changes these people are suggesting don't just affect that people that are AFK L4 running, but they affect those people are are just getting into L3/L4 missions.

Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.28 17:13:00 - [278]
 

Edited by: Matrix Skye on 28/05/2009 17:22:35
Originally by: skye orionis
Quotes like these are utterly ridiculous, PVP fits aren't magically better than mission fits.

PVP fits are better for PVP than are PVE ships. What's ridiculous is you arguing they aren't.
Quote:
PVP fits have to sacrifice slots for things like warp scramblers. And then if they want to invade your mission space they'll need an expanded scanner to scan you down in your mission space, and then they need to have a PVP fit with an afterburner rather than an MWD.

Once you pinpoint the deadspace entrance you dont need a probe scanner. If you're a respectable pirate you'll already know that MWD is useless in deadspace so you'll fit an afterburner instead. A scrambler on a PVP ship just means you'll be able to hold down the mission runner for as long as the fight is in your favor. As soon as it goes sour disengage and fly off. Chances are, and I'm being lax here, the PVE ship isn't fitting a scrambler.

Quote:
Basicly, a solo PVP ship is going to be at a disadvantage to a solo PVE ship when compared in terms of tank & gank.

Bulls**t. Utter bull. And you know this. Mission ships are slow, big targets, aimed at hitting other big slow moving targets. No scramblers, no ECM and with resists protecting against NPC resists. And fitting a ship half PVP and half PVE is just LULZ.

Quote:
But, pirates, unlike missioners are quite happy to work in gangs, that's how they offset their disadvantage. So, all missioners need to do is make use of the MM part of MMORPG and make some friends.

MM = Massively Multiplayer. This doesn't in any way mean I have to hold hands with other players. There are lots of pirates that go at it solo. You have a problem with them also? Somehow I suspect your bias is just toward missionrunners. And I'm not saying I want to play in a "bubble" alone either. I'll go to low sec when I can make it through lazy gatecamps and not have to spend half of my time docked because I'm being scan probed.

Rhinanna
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.28 17:15:00 - [279]
 

Quote:
No it does not because you edited out the second part of the problem.


Err what? Yeah keep taking those good drugs man, they aren't affecting your brain at all! :) Traders, plexers, miners make just as much as mission runners if not more so can bid just as well on those items, they are just as likely to lose them (or not)
What you really mean is 'I want those items for PvP and I can't afford to use them and risk losing them. Well tough... Not our problem.

Quote:
No-one is arguing that it is the highest — the argument is that it is too high for what it is and therefore push other activities out because they earn less for the same risk or risk more for the same earnings.

If its not the highest, nor the least risky then WHY the hell would you want missions changed? All you are doing is nerfing mission runners in comparison to the other occupations and making mission running useless. Thats a good idea is it?

Quote:
Since those methods are easily avoidable, yes.

Errr what? How do you stop someone from coming in your mission and looting e.t.c. while you are killing. Maybe possible in a marauder since you can kill and salvage and the same time but anything else no. Otherwise your options are - Shoot offender in his PvP ship and get pwned, mainly cos you are fighting rats AS WELL as the other player or cancel the mission and do another one, which is the other player is determined to keep you from earning ISK they will follow you to in addition to the standing hit you take! Most methods involve a 2nd player which makes missions about the least profitable activity in the game.

Quote:
Quote:
Same applies to trading.
So?


Errr its called a comparison between comparable activities, generally used in making logical deductions. I'm not surprised you haven't heard of this technique used by 99% of the human race given your arguements......

Quote:
In a PvP game, yes, being different — as in "not being PvP" — is wrong.

As in, You must play the game the way Tippia wants you to play it or your not doing it right...... Get off your high horse and look at the facts. It's CCP's game, just cos you think EVERYTHING should be PvP doesn't mean you are right. CCP decided there should be some PvE in the game and it's THEIR game not your's. It's not PvP is a strawman arguement with no logical backing based on your personal prejudice and has no bearing on this discussion. Its also the entire basis of your argument which is why you are wrong.

Quote:
…and if you've been paying attention, you'd have noticed that I don't talk about nerfing missions or reducing their profitability — quite the opposite. I'm talking about bringing that earning mechanic in line with every other rearning mechanic in the game.


If its NOT the most profitable, nor the least risky then how is it out of line? Because its not PvP? Well see above... not everything has to be about PvP. I agree some activies need a boost to bring them into line with the rest but nerfing missions or boosting everything else is effectively the same.

Quote:
You don't know what a strawman is, do you? If you want to accuse me of anything, it is to warp "my side" — i.e. the "reform missions" side — of the argument, to deal with the introduction of competition rather than a relocation to lowsec (which, I agree, is a full-bore-drool-dripping 'tard idea).

A strawman is an argument with no logical backing behind it, coming from the fact that a strawman looks like a person but isn't. Its not PvP is not a logical arguement, its an emotional one and therefore IS a strawman. Seems I know what one is better than you!

The only change I would like to see to missions is to make them more difficult in terms of the intelligence required to run them. If the ISK/hour to run them is decreased then it becomes easily more profitable to mine veld or trade instead. I agree the ability to AFK missions is stupid and should be removed.



skye orionis
Posted - 2009.05.28 17:42:00 - [280]
 

Originally by: Matrix Skye

PVP fits are better for PVP than are PVE ships. What's ridiculous is you arguing they aren't.

A scrambler on a PVP ship just means you'll be able to hold down the mission runner for as long as the fight is in your favor.


And you have to sacrifice your dps or tank to have that option, so you're immediately at a disadvantage.



Originally by: Matrix Skye

Bulls**t. Utter bull. And you know this. Mission ships are slow, big targets, aimed at hitting other big slow moving targets. No scramblers, no ECM and with resists protecting against NPC resists.


Show me a ship which has awesome ECM, scram, DPS and tank, sure an ECM ship can jam your BS up the wazoo, but it can't deliver enough dps to take you down, or tank your drones for any amount of time.

And the resists argument is weak, consider that PVP ships have to have crappy omnitanks because they can't know what kind of damage they'll be dealiing with.

Ok, there is one significant advantage the solo PVP'er gets, he can warp into a mission while the mission runner has all the rat aggro. That is perhaps the biggest single problem, rats should be smart enough to switch targets. This is absolutely a change I'd like to see, mission rats should be less single minded and should attack pirates too (maybe spawning a few scramming frigates to make sure they don't leave right away). OK, maybe if you're a pirate that has really good standing with the faction rats then they might welcome your assistance, just like factional warfare.....


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:01:00 - [281]
 

Originally by: Rhinanna
Err what?
Learn to quote, ok?
Quote:
If its not the highest, nor the least risky then WHY the hell would you want missions changed?
To remove the static baseline that renders other activities obsolete; to increase the variety of worth-while gameplay.
Quote:
All you are doing is nerfing mission runners in comparison to the other occupations and making mission running useless. Thats a good idea is it?
No. It makes them work on the same principles as other occupations — only then can we start talking about buffs and nerfs because only then do we have two comparable designs. You are the one talking about nerfing them — not me. Yet another strawman on your part.
Quote:
Errr what? How do you stop someone from coming in your mission and looting e.t.c. while you are killing.
As previously mentioned, it doesn't matter if he steals your loot — you make money anyway (in fact, some mission runners claim you lose precious ISK/h by stopping to loot and salvage). In order to kill your revenue, he has to kill all the ships so he gets all the bounties; hack into the CCP database to flag the mission as his; go back to your agent and claim the ISK, LP and standings rewards… Which, of course, can't be done.

The other alternative is to resort to violence, but that quickly becomes a cost-prohibitive method of economic warfare (that's also very easy to avoid).
Quote:
Get off your high horse and look at the facts. It's CCP's game, just cos you think EVERYTHING should be PvP doesn't mean you are right.
Given how often they've been wrong about their own game, I think I'll stay up here, thankyouverymuch…
Quote:
If its NOT the most profitable, nor the least risky then how is it out of line? Because its not PvP?
Yes. For the simple reason that, as long as it isn't competetive, it will remain a cast-iron [female dog] to balance against those other activities. Introduce competition, and it will balance itself and allow for more variety and be far easier to adjust when the self-balancing doesn't quite cut it. It's far easier to create a wide and appetizing range of apple hybrids if you don't try to throw an organge in the mix…
Quote:
A strawman is an argument with no logical backing behind it, coming from the fact that a strawman looks like a person but isn't.
No. A straw man is a misrepresentation of the opponents point of view that is set up only for the purpose of being easy to attack.

Eg:
Me: Missions should be made competetive.
You: Nerfing missions is bad for the game (the strawman being that you misrepresent what I'm saying as me wanting to nerf missions, and then you present a case why such a nerf would be bad).

Nomore Telindus
Gallente
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:17:00 - [282]
 

Originally by: skye orionis
And you have to sacrifice your dps or tank to have that option, so you're immediately at a disadvantage.

Disadvantage where? Compared to highsec? And the loot from the attacker could worth it.

Originally by: Matrix Skye
Ok, there is one significant advantage the solo PVP'er gets, he can warp into a mission while the mission runner has all the rat aggro.

Please explain me, how can anybody land on top of you, when you have local and directional scanner? Shocked

Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:18:00 - [283]
 

Edited by: Matrix Skye on 28/05/2009 18:20:35
Originally by: skye orionis
Show me a ship which has awesome ECM, scram, DPS and tank, sure an ECM ship can jam your BS up the wazoo, but it can't deliver enough dps to take you down, or tank your drones for any amount of time.
By ECM I meant ECM in general, not just Caldari ECM. Think TDs, warp scramblers/disruptors, webbifiers, etc.

Quote:
And the resists argument is weak, consider that PVP ships have to have crappy omnitanks because they can't know what kind of damage they'll be dealiing with.

The pirate that scans down a mission runner and has no idea what resist to protect against is a r*tard, plain and simple.

Quote:
Ok, there is one significant advantage the solo PVP'er gets, he can warp into a mission while the mission runner has all the rat aggro. That is perhaps the biggest single problem, rats should be smart enough to switch targets. This is absolutely a change I'd like to see, mission rats should be less single minded and should attack pirates too (maybe spawning a few scramming frigates to make sure they don't leave right away). OK, maybe if you're a pirate that has really good standing with the faction rats then they might welcome your assistance, just like factional warfare.....
This would be awesome.

Nomore Telindus
Gallente
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:31:00 - [284]
 

Originally by: Matrix Skye
The pirate that scans down a mission runner and has no idea what resist to protect against is a r*tard, plain and simple.

Wrong. You don't have time to change your fittings.

Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:38:00 - [285]
 

Edited by: Matrix Skye on 28/05/2009 18:41:01
Originally by: Nomore Telindus
Originally by: Matrix Skye
The pirate that scans down a mission runner and has no idea what resist to protect against is a r*tard, plain and simple.

Wrong. You don't have time to change your fittings.


Wrong. A level 4 mission usually lasts around 1 to 2 hours, longer if runner decides to salvage and loot. Scanning down a target takes what, 5-15 minutes tops? If you're too lazy, impatient or r*tarded to dock and switch that's all on you, buddy.

But you know this well and are just trying to distort information :).

Oh, and let's not forget you usually call in your friends for extra lulz. So even if you are that stupid to go in with your cov ops ship to kill that mighty Raven (Rolling Eyes), don't worry, your friends got your back, amirite or amirite?

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:40:00 - [286]
 

Originally by: Matrix Skye

The pirate that scans down a mission runner and has no idea what resist to protect against is a r*tard, plain and simple.



May I ask what the damage type of the most popular mission running ships are?

I believe that the Raven and it's navy counterpart are the king of missioning, and they can switch damage types at a whim. (Hell they can even laugh at PVP'ers who fit tracking distruptores, and switch to FOF missiles if they find that ECM is the flavour of the day.)

Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:48:00 - [287]
 

Originally by: skye orionis
May I ask what the damage type of the most popular mission running ships are?

(sigh) You'll be better off seeing what kind of NPC wrecks is the mission runner leaving behind. If it's against Guristas then chances are he's spewing kinetic and heavily tanking against kinetic. For Bloods, EM, for Angels, Explosive, etc. Is this a serious question?

Quote:
I believe that the Raven and it's navy counterpart are the king of missioning, and they can switch damage types at a whim. (Hell they can even laugh at PVP'ers who fit tracking distruptores, and switch to FOF missiles if they find that ECM is the flavour of the day.)

Laughing Raven being king of missions is just a myth and isn't true anymore because whiners whined and whined on how 'powerful' it was and supposedly still is. Right Rolling Eyes. FOF is laughable I agree. But you don't need FOFs to take down a Raven Laughing.

Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:55:00 - [288]
 

And since you seem to not know, I'll let you in on a little sekrit. Ravens, and Caldari ships in general have an EM weakness the size of the Ozone hole. So if you scan down a mission fighting against, say Guristas, just show him EM and the ship goes down like Superman on kryptonite.

Nomore Telindus
Gallente
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:57:00 - [289]
 

Originally by: Matrix Skye
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 28/05/2009 18:41:01
Originally by: Nomore Telindus
Originally by: Matrix Skye
The pirate that scans down a mission runner and has no idea what resist to protect against is a r*tard, plain and simple.

Wrong. You don't have time to change your fittings.


Wrong. A level 4 mission usually lasts around 1 to 2 hours, longer if runner decides to salvage and loot. Scanning down a target takes what, 5-15 minutes tops? If you're too lazy, impatient or r*tarded to dock and switch that's all on you, buddy.

Mr. 'I'm the best PVEer':
Please tell how you can spend two hours in a mission? Even a blockade lasts only ~30 mins for me (okay, + loot time and i have an alt), so how can i spend the remaining 1,5 hours well?

Originally by: Matrix Skye
Oh, and let's not forget you usually call in your friends for extra lulz.

I'm not egomaniac to deny my friend's lulz.

Plexxy
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:02:00 - [290]
 

Edited by: Plexxy on 28/05/2009 19:01:57
Originally by: Mrtankk
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Lrrp
Originally by: Malcanis

Of course the pirates just keep on yelling "NO WANT HIGH SEC MISSIONS NO WANNA NO WAANAAAAAAAAA!" Rolling Eyes


There...fixed it for you.


You're a liar. Why are you lying? You're telling stupid lies, easily disprovable simply from looking at this thread, you liar.

Look at my alliance tag, you stupid liar. I'm no more a pirate than you are. See my sec status? Can a liar like you admit even to himself that a 5.0 is not the sec status of a habitual pirate?

I look forward to your next lie.



Ya. THIS character might have a high sec status. But what about your -10 pirate alt? Stop telling lies and admit you have a -10 pirate alt.


Malcanis on battlecinic:

Losses: 99
Kills: 897
Success ratio: 1,697% (4:1)
Lost ISK: 6,849,187,837
Destroyed ISK: 116,249,689,186
Rank: 11,514
Points:
Kills: 1,541 Loss: 410 Total: 1,133

But yeah, I'm sure he still somehow finds the time to pwn noob industrialists on an alt all day. Rolling Eyes

Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:11:00 - [291]
 

Originally by: Nomore Telindus
Mr. 'I'm the best PVEer':
Please tell how you can spend two hours in a mission? Even a blockade lasts only ~30 mins for me (okay, + loot time and i have an alt), so how can i spend the remaining 1,5 hours well?

Laughing Here it is again since you seem to have missed it, accidentally of course :P
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Wrong. A level 4 mission usually lasts around 1 to 2 hours, longer if runner decides to salvage and loot.
And believe it or not, not everyone and their mothers speed through missions. I know I don't. And I don't have a pimp Raven. It's nice, but not pimp. So I can't run a 6-hour mission in less than 1 hour. Nice try though. And I loot and salvage so takes me longer for the longer missions, like the Blockade or Gurista Extrvaganza. And since we're in the subject of nitpicking times, how long does it take you to scan down a target, eh?

Nice attempt though Laughing. You see, that's the problem with you. You try and bring up a legitimate reason to bring more targets to your lazy gatecamps but you're not bright enough to make it believable. So you distort it instead.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:12:00 - [292]
 

Originally by: Matrix Skye
And since you seem to not know, I'll let you in on a little sekrit. Ravens, and Caldari ships in general have an EM weakness the size of the Ozone hole. So if you scan down a mission fighting against, say Guristas, just show him EM and the ship goes down like Superman on kryptonite.


And then you warp in on a Raven fighting sansha or blood raiders and go 'ooops'.

Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:17:00 - [293]
 

Edited by: Matrix Skye on 28/05/2009 19:25:32
Originally by: skye orionis
Originally by: Matrix Skye
And since you seem to not know, I'll let you in on a little sekrit. Ravens, and Caldari ships in general have an EM weakness the size of the Ozone hole. So if you scan down a mission fighting against, say Guristas, just show him EM and the ship goes down like Superman on kryptonite.


And then you warp in on a Raven fighting sansha or blood raiders and go 'ooops'.


Yes becuase a Raven leaving behind Gurista wrecks is obviously fighting Sanshas Rolling Eyes.

C.H.E.C.K. T.H.E. W.R.E.C.K.S!!!

Have you ever run missions at all?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:23:00 - [294]
 

Originally by: Turin
Originally by: Lrrp
You complete moron, Go and show everybody here how lvl 4 missions are such great isk opportunity's. Take any agent and average the isk made over 10 consecutive missions and divide by the time it takes to do the missions. In the end you will realize that with the price of trit being what it is, in the same time span you could mine Veld and make as much isk. But then you know that.

The real point of these threads are to get more targets back in lo sec so twits like you can gank them.


Agreed. These people who want all isk making abilities removed from high sec,



Stop. You're lying - or possibly stupid (perhaps both). You're certainly not describing the poeple who want missions reformed.

You can admit it now or be made to look pretty silly. Your choice really.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:23:00 - [295]
 

Originally by: Turin


I think




I thnk not.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:25:00 - [296]
 

Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
I've been reading into this PvP thing and it looks like it could be fun, but at the same time, from what I've been hearing, making a living off of it is near impossible without exposing yourself to other pirates when moving goods..


I suggest that you stop reading posts by people who are highly motivated to make lo-sec seem more dangerous than it is, and go look for yourself.

Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:33:00 - [297]
 

Edited by: Matrix Skye on 28/05/2009 19:34:36
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
I've been reading into this PvP thing and it looks like it could be fun, but at the same time, from what I've been hearing, making a living off of it is near impossible without exposing yourself to other pirates when moving goods..


I suggest that you stop reading posts by people who are highly motivated to make lo-sec seem more dangerous than it is, and go look for yourself.

And if he decides to follow your advice I'd appreciate him following up in this thread what his experience in losec was like :).

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:36:00 - [298]
 

Originally by: Matrix Skye

C.H.E.C.K. T.H.E. W.R.E.C.K.S!!!

Have you ever ran missions at all?


And how do you check the wrecks?
Oh yes you use the directional scanner, a device which every pirate can use to gather intel on missioners, and, the same device which a mission runner can use to detect pirates.

What's good for one is good for the other.


Anyway, you've still to show me a PVP fit with more tank, gank and ewar than a PVE fit, you made some lame excuse to skip around the question by saying that you really meant ewar when you said ecm, so I re-pose the question.

Once again I postulate that the pirates greatest advantages are not in ship setups, but in choosing the right target and collaborating with friends. And the missioner's greatest weakness is their anti-social nature and desire to keep doing the same thing in a loop.

Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.28 19:59:00 - [299]
 

Originally by: skye orionis
Originally by: Matrix Skye

C.H.E.C.K. T.H.E. W.R.E.C.K.S!!!

Have you ever ran missions at all?


And how do you check the wrecks?
Oh yes you use the directional scanner, a device which every pirate can use to gather intel on missioners, and, the same device which a mission runner can use to detect pirates.

What's good for one is good for the other.

And round and round in circles we go Laughing. That's not what we were arguing but, sure let's move on to another subject.

But let me just make sure we can bury this idiocy:

You now agree that as a pirate you can easily verify, and therefore easily gank and tank against a mission runner?

Me personally I always kept my eye on the scanner and local. Spamming and spamming away at the button. Not very fun at all. My problem was trying to mission while not getting probed out. Just isnt fun.

Quote:
Anyway, you've still to show me a PVP fit with more tank, gank and ewar than a PVE fit, you made some lame excuse to skip around the question by saying that you really meant ewar when you said ecm, so I re-pose the question.

So you're suggesting that a PVE ship is superior in tank and gank to the same ship fit for PVP? ugh Are you saying that a PVE Raven can take down a PVP Raven? I just don't know what to tell you. Hell, a PVP command ship or even an HAC can take down a PVE Raven with ease Laughing.

Quote:
Once again I postulate that the pirates greatest advantages are not in ship setups, but in choosing the right target and collaborating with friends. And the missioner's greatest weakness is their anti-social nature and desire to keep doing the same thing in a loop.
I'm not antisocial in RL but thanks anyway. Are you a murderer and thief in real life? I choose to do my missions alone because I choose to do my missions alone. I'm sorry if that bothers you. I'm sorry if it makes you feel jealous, or mad, or eager to have me nerfed, or banned, or whatever. I truly am. I'm sorry if you think it's unfair I can do missions in high sec by myself and make enough to buy stuffs. I'm sorry you feel the need to rage about my playstyle on the forums. But I am especially sorry you feel the need to call me antisocial because I refuse to follow you into lowsec so you can blow me up and add me to your killboard so you can feel superior to me.

Bubbelgum
Posted - 2009.05.28 20:04:00 - [300]
 

Edited by: Bubbelgum on 28/05/2009 20:04:02
Originally by: Max Tux
from what i can see, people want level 4's moved to low sec mainly so they can have more people to kill, they will not be good fights they will mainly be ganks.

this is a poor excuse to want to change the main income on many players, maybe reduce the loot drops, yes,but the idea of forcing people into low sec won't work.


This is an isk sellers dreams!


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