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blankseplocked The perfect solution to prevent Scamming
 
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Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:19:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 26/05/2009 09:37:12
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 26/05/2009 09:25:19

note:
I have not falling into any scams as far as I know of, so don't think i'm posting this idea because of those reasons, I'm just trying to find a solution.


Scamming in eve is running out of hand, even with the recent changes to the market system its still not letting up. We need a way to filter scammers from the market without completely destroying their ability to preform their "evil" deeds.

The biggest problem is that scammers are often safe from reprecussions. They sit safe in their stations, often in noob corps and they can just spam the local channel with their premade messages in a hope to gain a quick buck from an unsuspecting pilot.

Even worse, they drown out the real contracts.

-------------------------------------------

So how do I propose we fix this problem:

-------------------------------------------



security standing for market and contracts.

Players can mark scammers or good sales, which if this happens often enough will result in a market "standing" change.

Just like players with a low security stat (pirates) are banned from empire solar systems.
Players with a low market standing (scammers) could get banned from the contract and market system in highsec systems (in a similiar way the security standing system works)

This should however have more effect on new players/players with near to no sales made yet and trail accounts.

------------------------------------------

This basicly results in the following:

------------------------------------------


If a new player or a player who has near to no market experience (low sales/contract count) does a hand full of scams people can call him on it.
And this person will lose the ability to post new contracts or create sell orders in the highest security systems like Jita.
Trial accounts should be even more susceptible to standing loss so they can not be created effectively just for the purpose of spamming scams.


-------------------------------------------

Downsides and ways to counter these:

-------------------------------------------


While the system can be abused, abusing the system should really be a punishable offense, if a corp starts to mark all the sales of their opposing corp as scams without true cause this should be petitional and if proven... punishable.
Other countermeasures can also be put in place to prevent abuse.

This system is basicly what markets do if things get out of hand. They install ways to filter out the bad crops without trying to damage the market. If players misbehave, they should be called on it, and if they do it enough, their should be reprecussions. making a living out of scamming might be possible, but it should never be easy.

This won't prevent scamming, but it could bring it back to respectable levels I'm positive of that.

Mr Reason
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:30:00 - [2]
 

If you let players give 'rep points' which can/will affect the players that'll be abused in seconds, uttering the mere idea shows that you don't actually understand EVE. Having that being solved by making petitions means you're goign to clog up MORE GM time... Apart from that scammers use noob alts, if your system would in place they'd simply recycle the character and start again.

I'm not happy with the spam either but lets not spam unrealistic solutions ourselves.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:32:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99
Scamming in eve is running out of hand,
No.
Quote:
We need a way to filter scammers from the market
We already do.
Quote:
Even worse, they drown out the real contracts.
Not really, no.


As for your idea: no. It solves nothing and will only be abused, in spite of threats of punishment (or, alternatively, it will not be used at all out of fear of unreasonable punishment).

The perfect solution to scamming is this: use the contract interface; read the contracts.

Lonestar123
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:34:00 - [4]
 

How about People just Block them.

Oh

And Stop Falling For Them As well, its the only way to get them to disappear.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:40:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Mr Reason
If you let players give 'rep points' which can/will affect the players that'll be abused in seconds, uttering the mere idea shows that you don't actually understand EVE. Having that being solved by making petitions means you're goign to clog up MORE GM time... Apart from that scammers use noob alts, if your system would in place they'd simply recycle the character and start again.

I'm not happy with the spam either but lets not spam unrealistic solutions ourselves.




This, basically.

The perfect solution to scamming is to actually read contracts and also read the pop-up warnings.

Existential Angst
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:40:00 - [6]
 

Epic Fail.

How long would it take for 2 scammers to mark each other up to gold standard? Doesn't even take 2 scammers - one with an alt would be enough.

Scams are very obvious to anyone with a functioning brain and a healthy amount of paranoia. Anyone else should legitimately be viewed as a potential source of funds.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:42:00 - [7]
 

Also: scamming serves a very useful purpose in seperating ISK buyers and ebayers from cash & valuables they don't deserve because they were too foolish and lazy to earn them, let alone use them properly (and thereby also providing a rich source of forum amusement).

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:44:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Existential Angst
Epic Fail.

How long would it take for 2 scammers to mark each other up to gold standard? Doesn't even take 2 scammers - one with an alt would be enough.

Scams are very obvious to anyone with a functioning brain and a healthy amount of paranoia. Anyone else should legitimately be viewed as a potential source of funds.


noted, I agree, some things posted above are quite right...
Still, at least I tried to find a way Very Happy
Can't blame me for that can you ? Rolling Eyes

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:49:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 26/05/2009 09:49:17
Originally by: Hyperforce99
Originally by: Existential Angst
Epic Fail.

How long would it take for 2 scammers to mark each other up to gold standard? Doesn't even take 2 scammers - one with an alt would be enough.

Scams are very obvious to anyone with a functioning brain and a healthy amount of paranoia. Anyone else should legitimately be viewed as a potential source of funds.


noted, I agree, some things posted above are quite right...
Still, at least I tried to find a way Very Happy

Being scammed is like losing your ship: if it happens to you it was almost certainly your own fault.


Can't blame me for that can you ? Rolling Eyes


Although I'm sure your intentions were noble, what you're actually trying to do is add a complex layer of game mechanics in an attempt to prevent the consequences of stupidity. It doesn't work in RL and it won't work in EvE.

Antaiir
Gallente
Eat My Shorts Inc.
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:50:00 - [10]
 

The perfect solution to prevent Scamming...

... is there since ages.

Just read the offers carefully BEFORE you buy anything. You have eyes and you have brain, now use it ;)

dr doooo
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:51:00 - [11]
 


Scamming doesn't seem to be too out of hand to me atm. If ccp ever thinks that it is getting that way though, a much more simple solution would be to put a section in the tutorial referencing types of scams. They could even tweak its effect depending on how detailed and prominent the section was. As they say -'K I S S'.



Arec Bardwin
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:52:00 - [12]
 

The solution is already in-game.

Minimize local
No station trades
In contracts: only show item exchange/auctions // exact item search // sort after price

DDemon
Volatile Instability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:54:00 - [13]
 

Solution, Common sense?

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.26 09:54:00 - [14]
 

In every system with more than 10 people in it you get constantly spammed by alts. Which are like usual, the main problem. Why care if everyone hates you, it is an alt anyway. Sure you can scam, but then you also should have to deal with the consequences, and they are non-existent right now.


And then we can say people just shouldnt be stupid bla bla bla, but that doesnt help me. I havent and wont fall for those stupid scams, but that never stopped the scammers from spamming my chat window also.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.05.26 10:06:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Arec Bardwin
The solution is already in-game.

Minimize local
No station trades
In contracts: only show item exchange/auctions // exact item search // sort after price


This.

Existential Angst
Posted - 2009.05.26 10:08:00 - [16]
 

Scamming is part of the game, always has been and always will be. Think of it as a form of high sec piracy.

I've suggested before that the cost of posting a contract should be proportional to the difference between the value of the items and the price - making scam contracts more expensive to create than genuine contracts, although it would cause problems with some items with no realistic base price to work from. This would reduce the profit margin on some scams, which is about the most you're going to achieve.

CCP Applebabe

Posted - 2009.05.26 10:09:00 - [17]
 

Moved to " Features & Ideas Discussion " .

SentryRaven
KIA Corporation
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2009.05.26 10:15:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: CCP Applebabe
Moved to " Features & Ideas Discussion " .


Should have rather locked it, Apple... :P

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2009.05.26 13:11:00 - [19]
 

I hate teh scammers

Tom Peeping
Posted - 2009.05.26 13:25:00 - [20]
 

This is a horrible idea honestly... for a couple of reasons.

First... scamming is part of the game. Working as intended.

Second... can you imagine how vulnerable to misuse this system would be? Get a couple of alts, buy something cheap, and mark the seller as a scammer. Sounds like a great way to remove competition and give somebody a bad name... it's great that you've thought of a way to deal with it on a corp level, but most of this stuff happens at an individual level.

Have you thought about the fact that this bears some similarity to rating systems on auction sites in RL which were dropped because there was too much abuse going on? If it happened in RL and couldn't be prevented, do you really think it'll be different here?

Hariya
Posted - 2009.05.26 16:56:00 - [21]
 

In this thread: Trying to fix something that isn't broken.

kongking wang
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.26 19:17:00 - [22]
 

scamming is not in the game working as intended.

ccp didnt 1 day say to themselfs, "oh i got an idea, lets add scamming to the game"

saying its working as intended is a load of rubbish. it is and has always been an unworked out exploit that ccp cannot be ar**d to fix. its just like many other areas in eve were ccp rushed things out with gaps in them that have been exploited

Lear Hepburn
Caldari
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Transcendent
Posted - 2009.05.26 19:22:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: kongking wang
ccp cannot be ar**d to fix

Because that is precisely how highly successful companies with MMOs which have lasted 6 years do - not bother. Rolling Eyes

Or,

b) Working as intended.

Eriandia
Posted - 2009.05.26 19:54:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Eriandia on 26/05/2009 19:54:15
Ok, here's the deal. Scamming is allowed by the game mechanics, and will not be "fixed" by any programming means.
I see at least one new way to "fix" scamming every day.

The only way to "fix" scamming is for the people who are so mad about getting scammed to start paying attention to the contracts they are bidding on. If they are offering something that seems too good to be true, IT IS!! CCP has already made it harder for the people who used to add some extra numbers (2b instead of 2m) with a recent patch.

Honestly, is the contract that important that you can't spend an extra 30 seconds to actually look at it. If you can't deal with the way the game works, go back to WoW.

@ CCP Applebabe > I am disappointed. You spam this forum with another "scamming fix" thread. They should all be insta-locked. tsk tsk.

P.S. If this many people are being scammed, I should start scamming.

/rant

kongking wang
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.26 19:57:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Lear Hepburn
Originally by: kongking wang
ccp cannot be ar**d to fix

Because that is precisely how highly successful companies with MMOs which have lasted 6 years do - not bother. Rolling Eyes

Or,

b) Working as intended.


for it to be "working as intended" it first has to be purposly implemented not created due to an unforseen side effect of the contract system.

plz link me the patch notes that state,

"ccp has now implemented the contract system with the intent that scammers can steal money without consiquence"

oh and fraud isnt illegal in real life is it. seing as eve is supposed to be as close to real life as posible it should be legal there too.


Kaylan Jahlar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.26 19:58:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 26/05/2009 19:59:54
Scamming is part of life, and since EVE Online is a player driver market, scams are likely to happen.

The issue right now, is that people can't read. There's no glitch that allows people to create scams, all scammers are doing is profit from people's lack of reading skills.

There is nothing to fix!

I have opened a petition before to report someone that was spamming contract scams in local chat, thinking it was actually against the ToS to do this, and this is what CCP responded with, which clearly confirms what I said before:

Quote:
Hi,

Our apology for the late reply. We can well understand your frustration in this case and please understand that we don't support any type of scamming morally. However on the other hand we have to keep our hands tied regarding this issue since it's real and happening in EVE world. When this occurs, there is nothing the support team could do for players since scams do not violate any game mechanics and cannot be compensated for by us.

Best Regards,
GM DuoDuo
EVE Online Customer Support

Eriandia
Posted - 2009.05.26 20:00:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: kongking wang


oh and fraud isnt illegal in real life is it. seing as eve is supposed to be as close to real life as posible it should be legal there too.




I see, so SD your ship for insurance should be illegal as well. i assume?

Lear Hepburn
Caldari
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Transcendent
Posted - 2009.05.26 20:02:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: kongking wang
Originally by: Lear Hepburn
Originally by: kongking wang
ccp cannot be ar**d to fix

Because that is precisely how highly successful companies with MMOs which have lasted 6 years do - not bother. Rolling Eyes

Or,

b) Working as intended.


for it to be "working as intended" it first has to be purposly implemented not created due to an unforseen side effect of the contract system.

plz link me the patch notes that state,

"ccp has now implemented the contract system with the intent that scammers can steal money without consiquence"

oh and fraud isnt illegal in real life is it. seing as eve is supposed to be as close to real life as posible it should be legal there too.



Oh please.

Quote:
plz link me the patch notes that state,

"ccp has now failed to implemented the contract system with the intent that scammers can steal money without consiquence and we can't be arsed to do anything about it"

^ this is just as valid a statement. You made the statement that CCP were lazy, it's up to you to back this up.

Eve is not supposed to be anything like real life. It's supposed to be dark and dangerous and nasty to the unwary.
It's a sci-fi space sim where the people in it live in capsules! Your sense of reality is a touch warped if you think that's "as close to real life as posible". [sic]

kongking wang
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.26 20:06:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Eriandia
Originally by: kongking wang


oh and fraud isnt illegal in real life is it. seing as eve is supposed to be as close to real life as posible it should be legal there too.




I see, so SD your ship for insurance should be illegal as well. i assume?


hardly comparable. its not like you get 250% profit from doing that is it but sure, thats just another exploit ccp has not bothered there a***s to fix

Eriandia
Posted - 2009.05.26 20:09:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: kongking wang
Originally by: Eriandia
Originally by: kongking wang


oh and fraud isnt illegal in real life is it. seing as eve is supposed to be as close to real life as posible it should be legal there too.




I see, so SD your ship for insurance should be illegal as well. i assume?


hardly comparable. its not like you get 250% profit from doing that is it but sure, thats just another exploit ccp has not bothered there a***s to fix


Fraud is fraud, doesn't matter the percentage of profit.


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