open All Channels
seplocked Test Server Feedback
blankseplocked It's time to rebalance the weapons.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (22)

Author Topic

whoyoulookingat
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.05.29 13:27:00 - [151]
 

Edited by: whoyoulookingat on 29/05/2009 13:34:49
Originally by: Electric Universe
stuff.


kids eh Laughing and FYI, webs were reduced because speed was reduced.. which inadvertantly screwed over blaster boats.

And think this proves you're just trolling.. as if you had an inkling of how weapons worked, you'd realise that tracking is not the be-all or end-all of guns.
Trans & ang. velocity comes into play, optimal, falloff, ammo type (t2) all play their parts.

Now you keep *****ing about blasters, yet apparently nothing is wrong with the other 2 suggestions so what's up with that?? What's so seriously wrong with giving blasters a massive tracking boost yet nerfing their optimal & falloff so they only work at extreme close range? Do you even know what happens to any ship that's caught that close to a blaster boat??

Do you even understand the role of a blasterboat?

I get the impression you don't actually want any changes introduced.. maybe you're having too much fun with lasers & don't enjoy getting into the thick of things ? Who knows Rolling Eyes

So as I don't overload your I.Q:
Blasters = Extreme close range (which requires high tracking to hit an orbiting target)
Pulse = Longest short range (requires least amount of tracking as @ range)
AC's = stuck in the middle somewhere (requires high tracking due to speed)

So which part don't you understand?? Or do you want all of them to be identical?

That actually to one side, my biggest gripe is with AC's (projectiles in general tbh).. falloff dps is a joke, whereas before we could rely primarily on speed to help, this is no longer a real option! Changes to the scram really hurt minmatar! So we have the least HP available, worst tanks (on most ships), worst dps & (apart from the vaga - glass ship in a bottle), cr*p speed Crying or Very sad And lets not forget the amazing randomness when we do get hits!
Web nerf really screwed the Rapier over, HP buffs has screwed any alpha DPS, speed nerf (c/w scram change) has made most the ships pretty sh*te now!
It's no great surprise people choose to train Amarr, Caldari or Gallente.. Fixing the guns should be their 1st priority & I mean all race guns.

Why attempts to balance just one instead of all is beyond me - as we know, change one & 99% of the time it throws one of the others out of whack!

It's high time CCP starts addressing all these problems instead of releasing new content which further screws things up!!!

How they figured out ECM drones required looking at 1st is beyond most of us Rolling Eyes



Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.05.29 13:40:00 - [152]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 29/05/2009 13:43:43
Originally by: whoyoulookingat
Originally by: Electric Universe
stuff.


kids eh Laughing and FYI, webs were reduced because speed was reduced.. which inadvertantly screwed over blaster boats.

And think this proves you're just trolling.. as if you had an inkling of how weapons worked, you'd realise that tracking is not the be-all or end-all of guns.
Trans & ang. velocity comes into play, optimal, falloff, ammo type (t2) all play their parts.

Now you keep *****ing about blasters, yet apparently nothing is wrong with the other 2 suggestions so what's up with that?? What's so seriously wrong with giving blasters a massive tracking boost yet nerfing their optimal & falloff so they only work at extreme close range? Do you even know what happens to any ship that's caught that close to a blaster boat??

Do you even understand the role of a blasterboat?

I get the impression you don't actually want any changes introduced.. maybe you're having too much fun with lasers & don't enjoy getting into the thick of things ? Who knows Rolling Eyes

So as I don't overload your I.Q:
Blasters = Extreme close range (which requires high tracking to hit an orbiting target)
Pulse = Longest short range (requires least amount of tracking as @ range)
AC's = stuck in the middle somewhere (requires high tracking due to speed)

So which part don't you understand?? Or do you want all of them to be identical?

That actually to one side, my biggest gripe is with AC's.. falloff dps is a joke, whereas before we could rely primarily on speed to help, this is no longer a real option! Changes to the scram really hurt minmatar! So we have the least HP available, worst tanks (on most ships), worst dps & (apart from the vaga - glass ship in a bottle), cr*p speed Crying or Very sad And lets not forget the amazing randomness when we do get hits!
Web nerf really screwed the Rapier over, HP buffs has screwed any alpha DPS, speed nerf (c/w scram change) has made most the ships pretty sh*te now!
It's no great surprise people choose to train Amarr, Caldari or Gallente.. Fixing the guns should be their 1st priority & I mean all race guns.

Why attempts to balance just one instead of all is beyond me - as we know, change one & 99% of the time it throws one of the others out of whack!

It's high time CCP start addressing all these problems instead of releasing new content which further screws things up!!!




Just because i haven't left yet. Also my friend haven't picked me up yet, then i'm gonna reply.

Yes the web was reduced because of the things with Large guns instapwning frigs and cruiser AND because CCP reduced the speed.

I'm not trolling. I'm telling how the situation is in EVE atm. It's you who are trolling if you think it's so easy to just boost things as you want. Keep on dreaming.

Yes i want changes introduced, but ONLY changes that ARE needed. Not changes that will screw up butt load of things. Your not fixing anything because your adding way more problems than it fix.

If you want to fix something then fix is so it doesn't make any other things unbalanced or so you don't screw up other things.

And Large Blasters as they are now are perfectly fine. I don't want the Gallente race to becaome easy peasy mode again. It's not fun to use a race that is easy mode. There is a reason why i refuse to train Amarr now.

I understand all of the 3 points you say, but do you understand that your ideas / examples about Blasters are ridiculous overpowered beyond everything?.

That's what you don't see. You just gives some examples without thinking about the consequences.

I'm all in for some ideas, but for the love of god, give some reasonable / balanced ideas on what can be done. What you are giving examples on are basicly gonna destroy the PVP balance we have.

Yes the ONLY problems are with Artilleries and Autocannons. So fix them and do something about the Lasers that are way to overpowered today.

So fix those 2-3 things and shut up.

BLASTERS ARE TOTALLY FINE.

isdisco3
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.29 13:53:00 - [153]
 

Edited by: isdisco3 on 29/05/2009 13:56:50
lol, you two have single-handedly ruined all discussion in this thread.

blasters need more damage, because the amount of range they're trading makes the 15-20% increase they get (varying by ship size) not worth it. a megathron has the same damage output (before drones) of an abaddon, yet the abaddon has 5x the optimal range and the same falloff. a hyperion has more damage output than an abaddon, but the baddon will be doing full damage (due to optimal) for all the time it takes the hyp to get within its optimal.

blasters need more damage and maybe more tracking. minmatar needs more ... everything, because they are just bad at present. and amarr is FOTM because they do great to good damage at ranges at which no other race's short-range weaponry can compete at. any advantage the blasterboats have in terms of marginal dps increases is negated by this range and the time it takes to move through it to the blaster-boat's optimal.

in conclusion:

- increase blaster dps significantly, marginally increase tracking. make the range trade-off worth it.
- boost the hell out of minmatar, realize the impact of falloff and the inability to speed tank battleships.
- nerf the damage of amarr short-range. i dont want to nerf their tracking because they're already the lowest.

there's no reason an abaddon should be hitting at 20k for the same dps that a megathron has to be within 4.5k for.

RoCkEt X
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2009.05.29 13:58:00 - [154]
 

tbh you need to stop trying to balance it. because its never going to be perfect and to be honest, every race has thier advantages and disadvantages.

lasers are the pwn atm, but they still eat cap, a minmatar ship can be capdead and still shoot. the ships of gallente allow blasters to do obscene DPS, and missiles predictably struggle to hit small targets.

please go play hello kitty online.

much love
-RX

whoyoulookingat
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.05.29 14:03:00 - [155]
 

Edited by: whoyoulookingat on 29/05/2009 14:04:16
Originally by: electric universe
I'm all in for some ideas, but for the love of god, give some reasonable / balanced ideas on what can be done. What you are giving examples on are basicly gonna destroy the PVP balance we have.


On the issue with blasters, how making them extreme close range with tracking to match is gonna destroy PvP is beyond me! You reduce their optimal to under 5km (maybe lower) and half it again for the falloff, the ships need to burn into range to get any DPS. With Scrams, neuts, webs & god knows what else, this will not equate to easy mode PvP - in fact, it will have the opposite effect Twisted Evil

Note as well that I'm not just refering to BS class weapons - I'm talking about the whole damn lot. We all want 3 distinct weapons which give 3 different varieties for PVP. We know something is seriously wrong when Matar pilots start fitting lasers instead of projectiles to their ships! Shocked (this is how Eve was back in '04 mode except it was projectiles onto laser boats! lol)

We can debate the "paper dps/tracking" issue til we're blue in the face but until it's put into practice & tested, that's all it is.. numbers on a bit of paperugh And we all know that what looks good on paper is rarely the case when put into practice!

**edited bit**

Soz isdisco3 - can't help but get carried away with a heated discussion Twisted EvilLaughingLaughing

Tyrkisk Peber
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.05.29 14:14:00 - [156]
 

Edited by: Tyrkisk Peber on 29/05/2009 14:23:50
Originally by: whoyoulookingat
Originally by: electric universe
I'm all in for some ideas, but for the love of god, give some reasonable / balanced ideas on what can be done. What you are giving examples on are basicly gonna destroy the PVP balance we have.


On the issue with blasters, how making them extreme close range with tracking to match is gonna destroy PvP is beyond me! You reduce their optimal to under 5km (maybe lower) and half it again for the falloff, the ships need to burn into range to get any DPS. With Scrams, neuts, webs & god knows what else, this will not equate to easy mode PvP - in fact, it will have the opposite effect Twisted Evil

Note as well that I'm not just refering to BS class weapons - I'm talking about the whole damn lot. We all want 3 distinct weapons which give 3 different varieties for PVP. We know something is seriously wrong when Matar pilots start fitting lasers instead of projectiles to their ships! Shocked (this is how Eve was back in '04 mode except it was projectiles onto laser boats! lol)

We can debate the "paper dps/tracking" issue til we're blue in the face but until it's put into practice & tested, that's all it is.. numbers on a bit of paperugh And we all know that what looks good on paper is rarely the case when put into practice!

It destroys the basic behind PVP because Large Blasters aren't supposed to hit frigs and cruisers very good at default, you have to work hard or use your brain to be able to do that.

How many times do we have to tell you that one of the reasons for the web nerf was so Large guns isn't an insta kill weapon for smaller targets like frigs and cruisers. Get that into your head please.

Yes something is wrong with Projectiles when you can fit Lasers on a Tempest and get more DPS out of Lasers than you get with Projectile guns that you get 2 bonuses for.

Does it rings a bell here for you?.

The last thing is true to some point. But at least put something reasonable into test than just smashing in some insane numbers and then think it will be fine. And with 100% tracking boost in Blasters i know exactly how it will be then. It will be exactly how it was before the web and speed nerf. And that's absolutely NOT fine.

CCP doesn't nerf some things and then later boost something that goes against what they nerfed. LOL CCP is not stupid like that.

I know 110% that if Blasters gets 100% tracking boost, it will not be fine at all. It will be a joke. And it will destroy the whole concept of the web nerf.

EDIT: Bah, stupid alt. Grrr i have the forum settings that never will save lol. I'm just tempted to just delete this character now so i don't have to fight with the forum setting on who is the default character lol.

EDIT 2: Are you sure you want to submit Tyrkisk Peber to the biomass processing queue?. Tyrkisk Peber can be terminated after 10 Hours 22 Seconds.

To hell with meLaughing. Time to take suicide in EVE.

whoyoulookingat
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.05.29 14:43:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: whoyoulookingat on 29/05/2009 14:49:18
Edited by: whoyoulookingat on 29/05/2009 14:48:13

Doesn't have to be a 100% boost - that was only an example Wink But all ideas require a starting point - then others come along and add/change or take bits away & refine the original idea into something useable.

optimal/falloff/tracking/dps/gun sig 'v' ang. vel/trans vel/ sig radius /range

As we can see, these are just a few variables that are calculated to get a hit - Rarely does only one change happen without something else requiring changing as well.

And tracking is also defined by the sig radius of the ship you're trying to shoot in relation to the guns sig res so nothing to stop them tweaking all that as well.

My bad as well cos I should have put in about adjusting the sigs as well.. oops ShockedLaughing

Aylara
Posted - 2009.05.29 15:00:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
... aren't supposed to ...


Honestly m8, i would stop using this cliché... I becoming tiresome how the "supposed to" things have changed and adapted so many times when it was convenient. I would like to see a list from CCP with some of the "supposed to" things, but i bet they'll not shoot themselfs in the foot ;)

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.05.29 15:06:00 - [159]
 

Edited by: Electric Universe on 29/05/2009 15:30:18
Originally by: Aylara
Originally by: Tyrkisk Peber
... aren't supposed to ...


Honestly m8, i would stop using this cliché... I becoming tiresome how the "supposed to" things have changed and adapted so many times when it was convenient. I would like to see a list from CCP with some of the "supposed to" things, but i bet they'll not shoot themselfs in the foot ;)

Yeah your right. But you get what i'm talking about right?.

It's what all matters, that you get the whole picture / point i'm talking about.

Mag
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:00:00 - [160]
 

Edited by: Mag on 29/05/2009 16:03:16

I am Mag's uncle's brother's son, and I know what's needed.

Blasters and ACs need a boost, they are not filling their combat role correctly at present, as lasers do everything better, with more options.

Mag
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:17:00 - [161]
 

I'm not sure what your problem is tbh. Confused
I know blasters and ACs do need a boost.

Electric Universe
The Choir
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:19:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Mag
I'm not sure what your problem is tbh. Confused
I know blasters and ACs do need a boost.

Yeah you surely doLaughing.

Mag
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2009.05.29 16:55:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Mag on 29/05/2009 16:56:21
Originally by: whoyoulookingat

I suggest the follow to fix close range guns (THESE ARE EXAMPLES):

Blasters:
up to max 7.5km Optimal / 2.5km falloff
x2 tracking
Leave damage types as they are

These are your up close, in your face, tear a new hole in your prey type of gun

AutoCannons:
Up to max 20km Optimal / 20km falloff (reduce falloff dps by half)
x1 tracking
Leave damage types / Adjust range modifiers to fit to new settings

AC's are your "I ain't getting close cos i ain't got a tank (or poor one) fitted" - Ships rely on speed & range yet currently suffer from the falloff syndrome which screws their DPS up.
Increased optimal rectifies this & the falloff is for those that are too nervous to get into tackling range.
Laughing

Pulse:
40km optimal / bugger all falloff
x.5 tracking
damage types the same / range multiplier possible tweaking required?

With the long optimal it's suffice to say that these should be used @ the maximum range for close combat (i'd be inclined to say they're more mid range though).
They shouldn't hit jack at up to 20km yet can tear things apart past this range or at the edge of the field.


Tracking wise, I kept to full digits instead of the usual 0.00whatevers to demonstrate the difference of each example type - obviously they are alot lower ingame but helps when trying to do examples.

TA DA - we now have 3 different weapons, all unique & all with a defined roll.

As for missiles - they have fof so can continue to spam even when jammed.. erm.. not sure what else!! hehe Laughing


That would define the roles for sure.

I'm not sure CCP would go that far though, but it's in the right direction.

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.29 17:23:00 - [164]
 

Edited by: Raimo on 29/05/2009 17:23:14
Originally by: Mag
Edited by: Mag on 29/05/2009 16:56:21
Originally by: whoyoulookingat

I suggest the follow to fix close range guns (THESE ARE EXAMPLES):

Blasters:
up to max 7.5km Optimal / 2.5km falloff
x2 tracking
Leave damage types as they are

These are your up close, in your face, tear a new hole in your prey type of gun

AutoCannons:
Up to max 20km Optimal / 20km falloff (reduce falloff dps by half)
x1 tracking
Leave damage types / Adjust range modifiers to fit to new settings

AC's are your "I ain't getting close cos i ain't got a tank (or poor one) fitted" - Ships rely on speed & range yet currently suffer from the falloff syndrome which screws their DPS up.
Increased optimal rectifies this & the falloff is for those that are too nervous to get into tackling range.
Laughing

Pulse:
40km optimal / bugger all falloff
x.5 tracking
damage types the same / range multiplier possible tweaking required?

With the long optimal it's suffice to say that these should be used @ the maximum range for close combat (i'd be inclined to say they're more mid range though).
They shouldn't hit jack at up to 20km yet can tear things apart past this range or at the edge of the field.


Tracking wise, I kept to full digits instead of the usual 0.00whatevers to demonstrate the difference of each example type - obviously they are alot lower ingame but helps when trying to do examples.

TA DA - we now have 3 different weapons, all unique & all with a defined roll.

As for missiles - they have fof so can continue to spam even when jammed.. erm.. not sure what else!! hehe Laughing


That would define the roles for sure.

I'm not sure CCP would go that far though, but it's in the right direction.


Well Blasters would need *A lot* more damage for that to feel balanced compared to lasers. Say, 1.5x? The "unbalanced" 2x tracking boost can be downgraded to compensate ofc. ;)

(No, I don't like those numbers much. I use Null falloff on a regular basis, a Post-QR necessity IMO)

CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2009.05.29 17:51:00 - [165]
 

Cleaned.

Again, in a weapons rebalancing thread, any more off-topic posts will be met by instant forum bans.

Do not discuss the alleged identity of posters, their posting style, whether they be trolls or not or when your friend is picking you up. All of the above are off-topic and only succeed in lowering the quality of the thread.

Please attempt to come up with a consensus opinion or recommendations for developers to move forward, otherwise this is just a waste of time for all concerned.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2009.05.29 18:26:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Raimo
Well Blasters would need *A lot* more damage for that to feel balanced compared to lasers. Say, 1.5x? The "unbalanced" 2x tracking boost can be downgraded to compensate ofc. ;)

(No, I don't like those numbers much. I use Null falloff on a regular basis, a Post-QR necessity IMO)


Agreed, I personally would love a change close to what you suggested, but I don't think CCP would, we can only hope.
Blasters were feared for their damage at close range (along time ago now), I would love to see the roles defined as you set out. Giving back Blasters their close range superiority.

I'm not sure about others, but I trained Gallente because I love it's 'in your face' approach to PvP. That and the fact I think the Mega, is one of the best looking ships in-game. Laughing

I've had Amarr chars in the past and now have trained that race on this char, I'll most likely train all races at some point. Seems to be the only way to go.

Dansel
Gallente
Telsa inc
Waterboard
Posted - 2009.05.29 18:40:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Mag's

I've had Amarr chars in the past and now have trained that race on this char, I'll most likely train all races at some point. Seems to be the only way to go.



Probably yes...
But in my opinion, all races should be different, but be equally good at their specialization. Kinda hard too explain, but I hope you understand what I mean

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2009.05.29 18:45:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Dansel
Originally by: Mag's

I've had Amarr chars in the past and now have trained that race on this char, I'll most likely train all races at some point. Seems to be the only way to go.



Probably yes...
But in my opinion, all races should be different, but be equally good at their specialization. Kinda hard too explain, but I hope you understand what I mean


I know exactly what you mean bud, and agree. That's one of the reasons I liked the suggested changes. Very Happy

isdisco3
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.29 19:01:00 - [169]
 

Edited by: isdisco3 on 29/05/2009 19:02:42
I do agree that we need to decide on clear roles for each race, but we must remember that within every race there are differing types of weapons. Giving amarr's short-range weapons an optimal of 40k seems a bit much, even if damage and tracking are compensated to make up for it. If its short-range are 40km, how long should its long-range be?

I also don't think we need to increase the optimal on blasters. They are short-range on purpose, but I do think the damage needs to be greatly enhanced to compensate for their utter lack of range, along with better tracking so that if you're in a battleship and you're in a blasterboat's optimal, you're either ballsy, stupid, or dead - or all of the above.

My suggestions:

Blasters:
- increase base damage by 25-40% to compensate for lack of range. falloff stays the same
- increase tracking by 20-30%, or some number which lets them hit bs in their optimal but not frigates.
- result is that it does sick dps within 4km, and decent to bad beyond that.

Autocannons:
- increase base damage marginally (10% or so), and change the tempest
- increase its optimal to 10-15km varying by size, give it a matching falloff
- result is a skirmish, standoff weapon with medium-high dps which helps engage at decent range.

Lasers:
- lower damage by 15%
- nerf scorch, no short-range weapon should have a 45km optimal
- result is a longer-range, but not unreachable, BS with decent damage

Do that, and we'll have as new roles:

Blasters:
- in your face pwnination, if you get inside its 2-3km optimal, you're probably boned.

Autocannons:
- standoff weapons, doing good damage at decent range, but nothing excessive

Lasers:
- longer-range weapons, doing 2nd-to-3rd damage, able to engage at decent ranges.

Ranvaldy
Amarr
Posted - 2009.05.29 19:32:00 - [170]
 

Edited by: Ranvaldy on 29/05/2009 19:34:50
I didnt read all but this whole thread is a big fail.SOME weapons need balancing(i heard large projectiles are weak) not the entire weapon system Neutral

Edit:Dont u dare touch my energy weapons Evil or Very Mad

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.05.29 19:38:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Ranvaldy
Edit:Dont u dare touch my energy weapons Evil or Very Mad


Stop training overpowered weapons systems then? As it stands, there's very few reasons to ever use anything other than lasers.

-Liang

Ranvaldy
Amarr
Posted - 2009.05.29 19:47:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: Ranvaldy on 29/05/2009 19:47:23
Originally by: Liang Nuren


Stop training overpowered weapons systems then? As it stands, there's very few reasons to ever use anything other than lasers.

-Liang

Stop ? Its the only weapon system i ever learned(tho maxed it) since i started as Amarr its pretty obvious Confused

1600 RT
Posted - 2009.05.29 19:52:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Ranvaldy
Edited by: Ranvaldy on 29/05/2009 19:34:50
I didnt read all but this whole thread is a big fail.SOME weapons need balancing(i heard large projectiles are weak) not the entire weapon system Neutral

Edit:Dont u dare touch my energy weapons Evil or Very Mad


not only large projectile
all arty is kind of fail after HP buff the problem just get bigger with the size of the ships

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.05.29 20:07:00 - [174]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 29/05/2009 20:09:54
Originally by: Ranvaldy
Stop ? Its the only weapon system i ever learned(tho maxed it) since i started as Amarr its pretty obvious Confused


/shrug, then maybe you need to crosstrain so that you can do something besides "hear" that there might possibly be a problem all the other weapons systems in the game.

-Liang

Ed: Not to sound combatitive, but lasers are THE premier weapons system of the day - so much so that they completely consume everyone else's supposed niches in combat. I'm not sure that they *CAN* not change lasers and maintain game balance that doesn't essentially boil down to "Train lazers."

Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
Posted - 2009.05.29 20:08:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Ranvaldy
Edited by: Ranvaldy on 29/05/2009 19:34:50
I didnt read all but this whole thread is a big fail. SOME weapons need balancing(i heard large projectiles are weak) not the entire weapon system Neutral
Edit:Dont u dare touch my energy weapons Evil or Very Mad

how can you make such a statement than? right now lasers are very FOTM. enjoy it while it lasts.

Shana Lioni
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.05.29 20:30:00 - [176]
 

I remember not so long ago, when it was a joke to be an Amarr character. Amarr had the worst damage type, and we were the easiest to tank, especially against Minmatar class ships. Then we get reballanced. Now the complaints roll in.

Lets look at HACS since I think this is what this really comes down to:

Minmatar - Projectile weapons use EM, EXP, KIN & THM dmg types.
Muninn is capable of hitting short and long range and has use of a 25M3 drone bay. Recives bonuses to turret optimal range and tracking level.

Vagabond is a short range hac with bonuses to Medium Projectile Turret falloff range and Medium Projectile Turret damage. Sports a 25M3 drone bay.

Gallente - Projetile weapons use KIN & THM dmg types.
Deimos is capable of hitting short range with guns with bonuses to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff and Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level. It sports a 50M3 Drone bay.

Ishtar fits guns just to look at. Why? Becuase this boat receives a +5 km bonus to Scout and Heavy Drone operation range and +50 m3 extra Drone Bay space per level. It sports a 125M3 drone bay.

Caldari - KN & THM Projectil & All Missiles

Eagle - Is a long range sniping boat. It receives a bonsus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level. It has no drone bay.

Cerberus - Is a long range missile boat with Heavy Missile Launchers. Receives a bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile flight time and 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level. It has no drone bay.

Amarr Uses EM & THM and All Dmg Types through Missiles.
Zealot - Is a medium and long range boat. It receives bonuses to Medium Energy Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage per level. It has no dron bay.

Sacrilege -Is a short range Missile Boat. It receives a 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time (WTF FOR)and 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level. It sports a 15M3 drone bay.

The roles of these ships are clearly defined. Their weapons systems are defined around their roles. Its not the turrets that are broken, more than likely the role at which your are trying to play the ship. If the Amarr Turret Systems are screwed with, then it needs to be ballaned with ships that can use missiles more effectively. We are not a fast race, and using short range missiles is seriously broken as this requires a pilot to be able to get in and out very quickly. My suggestion is give the Sacrilege the same bonuses as the Cerberus and change the Prophecy to a Heavy Missile boat if you do. But ultimately I pray that you leave us alone, and figure out a way to make the others happy without gimping us back to 2008.

Thanks.




Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.05.29 20:38:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: isdisco3

Blasters:
- increase base damage by 25-40% to compensate for lack of range. falloff stays the same
- increase tracking by 20-30%, or some number which lets them hit bs in their optimal but not frigates.
- result is that it does sick dps within 4km, and decent to bad beyond that.

Autocannons:
- increase base damage marginally (10% or so), and change the tempest
- increase its optimal to 10-15km varying by size, give it a matching falloff
- result is a skirmish, standoff weapon with medium-high dps which helps engage at decent range.

Lasers:
- lower damage by 15%
- nerf scorch, no short-range weapon should have a 45km optimal
- result is a longer-range, but not unreachable, BS with decent damage

Do that, and we'll have as new roles:

Blasters:
- in your face pwnination, if you get inside its 2-3km optimal, you're probably boned.

Autocannons:
- standoff weapons, doing good damage at decent range, but nothing excessive

Lasers:
- longer-range weapons, doing 2nd-to-3rd damage, able to engage at decent ranges.


So you create (3x damage mod+drones)
Blaster mega:
1309+317 = 1626dps close range (up to 4,5km). 2x blaster mega = sieged dread damage
654.5+317 = 971.5dps at 17,5km (opti+faloff, faloff included in damage calc)

In this range it vaporizes everything including cruisers and if wrecking hit including frigs. Cruisers melt in 5 seconds after being locked.

AC maelstrom:
1138,5dps close range (20+20 as you say) with worse tracking than mega. So pretty much up to around 15km mega outdamages everything.

Mega pulse geddon:
726.75+317= 1043.75dps (at 15km)

So whats the point of flying anything except mega after your "uber" changes?
Or maybe lets just remove stacking penalty from damage mods?

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.05.29 20:59:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Shana Lioni
I remember not so long ago, when it was a joke to be an Amarr character. Amarr had the worst damage type, and we were the easiest to tank, especially against Minmatar class ships. Then we get reballanced. Now the complaints roll in.


Being underpowered for a year does not entitle you to be overpowered for a year. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Quote:

....

The roles of these ships are clearly defined. Their weapons systems are defined around their roles. Its not the turrets that are broken, more than likely the role at which your are trying to play the ship. If the Amarr Turret Systems are screwed with, then it needs to be ballaned with ships that can use missiles more effectively. We are not a fast race, and using short range missiles is seriously broken as this requires a pilot to be able to get in and out very quickly. My suggestion is give the Sacrilege the same bonuses as the Cerberus and change the Prophecy to a Heavy Missile boat if you do. But ultimately I pray that you leave us alone, and figure out a way to make the others happy without gimping us back to 2008.



Let me ask you a question: if they boosted, say, the Naglfar so that it had a .01s rof with 5.5 tracking and could wtfpwn frigs at 100m or 250km, would it be better to nerf the Naglfar or boost everyone so that they could do something similar?

As it stands, there's no really good reason to use anything other than lasers in the BC+ department (yes, that even includes for close range ganking). So what you're effectively saying is that we should boost blasters by 60-70% damage, boost projectiles by about the same (heh, they start so freaking low just so that lasers can remain "unchanged". Or hell, let's suppose a 5% boost to both would "fix" the problem. Well, now lasers have just recieved an indirect nerf by virtue of everything else being adjusted up around them. Also, this even further skews the utility of tanking bonuses towards resist bonuses.

I dunno, I don't really wanna play the game of "never nerf anything" - because it really doesn't exist.

-Liang

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.05.29 21:04:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
So pretty much up to around 15km mega outdamages everything.


That actually seems very very reasonable, though I might really prefer 11-12km.

Quote:

Mega pulse geddon:
726.75+317= 1043.75dps (at 15km)



That doesn't seem all that heinous to me. Maybe it's because I frequently fly Minmatar and we wish we could deal 1000 DPS at 15km.

Quote:
So whats the point of flying anything except mega after your "uber" changes?


I dunno.... engaging outside of scrambler range? Already most fights happen well outside of the 5-10km range (frequently well into the 20-40km range).

-Liang

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.05.29 21:19:00 - [180]
 

i think blaster dont need that much of rebalancing they need to hit for full damage BS sized targets and close to full damage on BC but the cruiser/frig should mantain some sort of protection VS large sized guns, so maybe a bit of a tracking bonus but not 2x like someone say that's just too much.

projectile on the other hand need a bit more love AC should do a damage between laser and blaster to get something like this:
range laser > projectile > blaster
dps blaster > projectile > laser
artillery need a total rework for more spike damage easiest solution is to increase damage mod and adjust ROF.
both AC and arty need theyr falloff to scale with the size of the guns, the range difference between a dual 425 AC and a 800mm AC is nothing, 1km with barrage and 0.5km with EMP with max skills.

other than that falloff formula need to be adjusted and this would help both projectile and blaster, change trajectory analisys from 5% to 10% per level could be a good idea, hell even for laser.


Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (22)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only