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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:09:00 - [1]
 

What I am referring to, you might ask ?
Well, you were probably were living under a rock for the past one and a half years, or maybe you just started getting interested in EVE-Online.
Anyway, let's recap... only the highlights, if I'd go into detail it would turn into a thesis work, not a post.

In Empyrean Age, the big focus was the awesome super-duper "Factional Warfare" thing.
Oh, you mean, you haven't heard much about it ? That's right, because it was an almost total flop.
Long story short, there's no point in bothering with it for several reasons, which all boil down to a single thing : there's no serious ISK to be made from it, and therefore shortly after trying it out as a novelty thing, people forgot it actually existed.

In Quantum Rise, we were supposed to get a huge industry-themed expansion.
You're not aware of that either ? Yeah, you see, it didn't actually happen, that's why.
The only thing we got out of it that was somewhat industry-related was Alchemy, which is an abject failure, financially or economically speaking : it failed to address the issue it was supposed to "fix", and if anything, it created even more issues. But I won't bother you with the details.

In Apocrypha, again, a HUGE expansion, with thousands of new (hidden) starsystems, one entire new "enemy of all" NPC faction, countless manhours into the design of T3 ships with their modular nature, many new and exciting dungeons and resource sites and industrial content and so on and so forth.
But... wait... what is this ? Almost nobody bothers with it ? Why could that be ?
Why, yes, it's again that nagging "because it's not economically/financially smart to do so".
You can complain about how T3 and all the related industry is new (it's not), how we should just give it time and it will pick up (it won't) or how I should quit and go make my own game instead of complaining (I won't)... nothing will change the facts.


SO, WHAT CAN BE DONE ?

Why, I'm glad you asked.
You see, without that question (and the proper answer), this would be nothing more than a whine and/or rant thread, now wouldn't it be ?
The answer is so simple, it boggles the mind... I mean, it's so obvious and so straightforward, you'd think this would have been the first thing CCP should know about their customers and about their game.

EVE PLAYERS LUST FOR POWER - be it in form of territory, fame or cold, hard ISK - AND THE ONLY WAY TO ENSURE SOMETHING IS BEING USED IS TO MAKE IT EVER SO SLIGHTLY MORE ATTRACTIVE IN TERMS OF POWER GAIN POTENTIAL THAN OTHER ALREADY EXISTING ALTERNATIVES.

And for better or worse, that particular baseline is highsec L4 mission-running.
If something is not more profitable overall than highsec L4 mission-running, the adoption rate of it will be at best mediocre.
Sure, you can make it riskier, you can make it insanely risky if you want to - but then up the reward level sky high.
But if you make it less profitable... you sadly CAN'T make it less risky than the baseline, so there's no point in trying.


It's the reason FW failed : there's no reward to be had that can even compete with that baseline.
It's the reason alchemy fails : it can't compete in profitability with regular reacting, and is too time-consuming on top of it all.
It's the reason T3 and wildspace is failing and WILL fail if nothing is done : it's way too risky, and not noticeably more profitable, even at insanely high T3 prices.

So, really, CCP, do you enjoy wasting manhours on stuff almost nobody uses ?
I have a feeling you don't... but... then, why don't you guys DO SOMETHING already ?


THERE ARE ONLY TWO LINES OF ACTION CCP CAN POSSIBLY TAKE TO FIX IT ALL.

The painful way (most people cry would mean an end to EVE-Online - I disagree, but, hey, what do I know) would be to drastically cut L4 highsec profitability.
The other would be to boost rewards for everything else.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:09:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2009 09:14:07

I was simply stating that there must be a balance between income levels, effort required and risk taken, with a bit of "just how much fun is it to do" thrown into the mix, also taking into account skill level required to do it (both pilot and RL skill).
Because that's what people actually mean when they say "risk vs reward". It's just a title for something that's way more complicated than it sounds.
When that balance is too far in the "unprofitable" area, that particular gameplay aspect can be considered a failure.

Right now, one of the best activities in the "profitability" area is L4 highsec mission-running : it provides decent income levels (which scale upwards with player skill and investment in gear, which is important), it requires moderate to low amounts of effort, it's marginally fun (for a while at least, until your hundredth time saving the damsel), it doesn't take a lot of player nor pilot skill to do (especially since rigs were introduced), and even less if you team up (or dual box)... so yeah, tell me, how exactly would you hope for other things to compete with that ?

YES, you probably COULD make more ISK with other activities, even in highsec.
You could make more ISK manufacturing, inventing, researching, or even trading (oh, you can make a lot of ISK trading) but all of that's a mainly a PVP activity, hence the POTENTIAL risks are pretty high and "profitability" is self-regulating with regards to other similar PVP-ish-in-nature activities, it's not an ISK faucet, it's an ISK transfer mechanism.
At worst, those particular things need to be slightly tweaked in-line with eachother, but it's not really urgent or even necessary.

As a whole, the EVE community is not a mass of individuals with dreams and aspirations nor anything like that. As a whole, the EVE community can easily be categorized statistcally, and with minimal effort predictions can be made how many people will do any particular type of activity.
It doesn't take a genius to see that out of any possible activity, the one the MOST players in EVE engage in (and I mean players, not characters) is having at least one "highsec L4 mission running alt", because that's the easiest way to make ISK to feed any other kind of activity they designate as "fun".


The options are to either alter the balance of "profitability" for L4 missions (make'em much harder and/or riskier OR pay less), or bump up the rest SOMEHOW (ISK mainly).
Yeah, sure, feel free to make the other activities MORE FUN, if you can... but since you can't really tweak the risk factors too much (because most of the risk outside of highsec comes from PLAYERS, not NPCs, and the risk goes up the more the profitability goes up because, hey, players)... and making something more fun to do is not at all easy... the only things you CAN do would be to either tweak the difficultly level (which would be unadvisable) or tweak the rewards level.
Out of all possible things, ONLY THE REWARDS CAN REALISTICALLY BE TWEAKED in a timely fashion and with minimal CCP effort.


So, yeah, it all comes down to "make L4s pay less OR make everything else pay more"... AS A START.
Ultimately, everything else would have to get adjusted following similar yardsticks.
The alternative is... what we see today. And it's not pretty.

Idea on how to balance missions (page #5 of this thread - quicklink).
It's not a (direct) nerf of any missions in particular, but rather a auto-balance system that would ensure the fact mission-running income levels are in-line with risk levels all across the EVE universe.

In my opinion, adjusting/buffing "everything else that needs it" is the MUCH better option.
But I guess you could just nerf L4s... FOR STARTERS.

Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:12:00 - [3]
 

Player numbers steadily rising so they must be doing something right, why mess with success?

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:13:00 - [4]
 

Don't you ever get tired of posting grandstanding threads like this?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:14:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 19/07/2009 12:29:21


MID-JULY 2009 update:
So...T3/wormholes got a boost, still not quite there, but a major improvement nevertheless, looking good.
Some FW rewards are in the pipeworks, which is also great, hope it's enough to bring new life into it, again looking good.

Now then... what about the rest of the stuff, like the industrial revolution, for instance ?
You know... alchemy, storefronts, the works ? Wink


_____


DUE TO LACK OF SPACE ON POSTS #1 AND #2, ADDITIONAL LINKS TO RELEVANT POSTS GO HERE.

Linkage and later on Linkage- Rebuttals of the "but there are other things more profitable than L4s in highsec"
Linkage and later on Linkage then again Linkage as people just don't get it - Explanation of the "wasted time" argument (of course not ALL time was wasted on expansions, just SOME of it)
Linkage - Why being a lot more "polite" in making this point in this thread would be pointless (a.k.a. "why wouldn't the devs respond to such a thread no matter how you phrase it")
Linkage - Response to "so why are you so hell-bent on how profitable highsec L4 missions are anyway?" (plus, anyway, it's not a request for a highsec L4 nerf, a "boost everything else" solution would be much more appropriate, as stated repeatedly, even as early as post #2)
Linkage - "Proof" that the devs are dissapointed with T3.
Linkage - Yet another rebuttal of the "but CCP doesn't set prices, the players do" tired old argument.
Linkage - reply to "you're just not a developer, man, you don't UNDERSTAND how long each minuscule thing should take"

___

Originally by: Intense Thinker
Player numbers steadily rising so they must be doing something right, why mess with success?

Why waste a lot of dev time on stuff a vast minority of the playerbase uses ?
Why not have a higher rate of climb on subscription numbers ?
What's the point in doubling your operating expenses if you only increase your income by 50% ?
...and so on.
Originally by: Durzel
Don't you ever get tired of posting grandstanding threads like this?

I'd post more often if I had the time, I only post when "the cup is full".
If you disagree with anything I said, point out "the error of my ways".

Cryxx
Minmatar
Intaki Armaments
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:25:00 - [6]
 

Thank you for reminding me that EVE is about making as much pixle-money as I can in a computer generated world instead of having fun with new stuff...almost forgot!

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:27:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Cryxx
Thank you for reminding me that EVE is about making as much pixle-money as I can in a computer generated world instead of having fun with new stuff...almost forgot!


It's hard to have fun in EVE without the ISK and the time invested so you can actually play with the new toys.

Kateryne
Minmatar
Kat's Discount Weapon Emporium
NISYN Inc.
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:27:00 - [8]
 

There's a far more simple, and elegant solution - move L4 agents into low-sec.
In fact, striate the entire heirarchy of agents as follows:
1.0 - Tutorials
0.9 to 0.8 - L1 Agents
0.7 to 0.6 - L2 Agents
0.5 and down - L3 Agents
0.4 and down - L4 Agents
Or something like that.

That will shift the mission running hubs into low-sec areas where there is much higher risk facto, which would detract from the high rewards.
It would mean that the market hubs would have to shift out a bit, and there'd be more risk if traders decided to sell in low-sec.
It would also bring more use to low-sec space because, frankly, currently you get your mission runners, traders and miners in high-sec and your territory holding alliances and pvpers in null-sec.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:28:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Cryxx
Thank you for reminding me that EVE is about making as much pixle-money as I can in a computer generated world instead of having fun with new stuff...almost forgot!


Right, because you are ONLY surviving from loot you collect while flying your unrigged T1 frigate in PVP all day long, am I correct ?
It costs ISK to "have fun" in EVE, and you will have to make that ISK in some way or another.
So, yes, for most of the time, the time you're PREPARING for your "fun", it ALL eventually only comes down to making as much virtual currency as possible in the least amount of time spent doing it.

Chris Liath
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:30:00 - [10]
 

I support the OP.

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:31:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 23/05/2009 10:34:50

Quote:
In Empyrean Age, the big focus was the awesome super-duper "Factional Warfare" thing.
Oh, you mean, you haven't heard much about it ? That's right, because it was an almost total flop.
Long story short, there's no point in bothering with it for several reasons, which all boil down to a single thing : there's no serious ISK to be made from it, and therefore shortly after trying it out as a novelty thing, people forgot it actually existed.


Speak for yourself, a bare minimum of several hundred of us would be devastated if faction war was ever taken out of the game.

The only place where faction war really fails on its face is militia mission agents expecting pilots to run plexes for standard mission rewards when;

1. It's not just lowsec, it's a lowsec warzone full of people who can shoot you without any protection from gate guns.

2. The plex happens to be a giant flashing beacon that sticks out in any system for all to warp to and kill you.

3. Unlike the highsec missions, a good portion of people who try to run a level 4 militia plex in a battleship wouldn't survive past their first mission.

Rightfully, 98% of everyone ignores that stupid part of faction war and go out blowing everything up in site instead.

I like your suggestions though.

Rather than one or the other I think both should be done to lessen the blow.

Instead of

"Lower l4 rewards a lot OR boost faction war rewards a lot"

Go for

"Lower l4 rewards a little AND boost faction war rewards a little"


Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:33:00 - [12]
 

Sounds familiar, but when confronting CCP about it, they went "we're very proud about what we did, blahblah (insert marketing rabble here). Evil or Very Mad

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:33:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Armoured C on 23/05/2009 10:36:10
yeah eve is failing, so why dont you go play another game... oh that right YEAH because like myself you love this game to damm much .


if you dont like it akita you can always quit.

i agree with the post above CCP are brining in the numbers as it is what eve nature that is the important bit.

just a side note


FW was not ment to be a isk machine it is ment to be a pvp anywhere button and over 10k people in it it might not be ooh so popular that you level 4 but there are still people in involved.

TŁ: i am seeing more T3 ships everyday hell my alliance has caught a few in 0.0 remember that the citizen make the prices for the economy. Not liking the price for you stuff your collecting in the wormholes? well make your price? Just remember you are competing against everyone else

if CCP were doing something wrong sub number would of gone down instead of going up.

and while you main post just intreige on some points why cant you actually moan about stuff that has been happening much longer that a couple of expansions. please troll on something more constructive like sov mechanics Rolling Eyes

also movey movey to features page ?Wink

Feilamya
Pain Elemental
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:34:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Intense Thinker
Player numbers steadily rising so they must be doing something right, why mess with success?

Yes, they made the only grind game with spaceships.

Unfortunately, that grind game shares a server, game world and players statistics with EVE, and also provides an easy but boring ISK source for EVE players.

It's like hosting your blog and a **** site on the same domain and telling everyone how awesome your blog is with a gazillion visitors to your domain per day, when 99% only visit for the **** stuff.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:35:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Kateryne
There's a far more simple, and elegant solution - move L4 agents into low-sec.


That's not elegant at all. All that would solve is having everybody move to L3 agents and speed-running L3s. Or doing what they do with L5s, get a couple of agents close to highsec and run only those missions sending them in highsec.
Not only would that mean all you accomplished was a slight reduction in the baseline income, but a widening of the playerbase able to succesfully tackle that baseline income level, so the problem might become slightly less visible, but a lot more widespread. Bad approach.

What would be very elegant instead would be to make all mission-related income (bounties, loot drops, salvage) depend on security rating, NOT just the LP and end-of-mission ISK - and make it so that 0.4 mission-running is at least twice as good as 0.5 mission-running, for starters (by reducing the 0.5 one compared to "now", not by doubling the 0.4 one). Or, heck, make it DYNAMIC, the more highsec vs lowsec vs 0.0 missions are run, the lower the rewards for the "overfarmed" areas will get.
That would be just one possibility out of several that handle the "reduce highsec mission income" approach.

And I'm not even too convinced it's the right approach at all - I mean, what's wrong with simply making everything else more profitable instead ?

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:37:00 - [16]
 

I don't necessarily disagree with what you say, it's the manner that you state it.

It's basically a checklist for MMO whines since time immemorial.

"I know better about your game and its many varied and complex economics than you do."
"What I say is important so I'll talk in caps and state opinion as immutable fact."
"I'll talk about how feature <x> has failed, is failing, write it off, etc based on my own personal playstyle/perspective"
"I'll use reverse psychology 101 techniques like asking you if you're happy wasting time on X, why you won't read my opinion facts about Y, why my ideas solutions are so simple that an idiot could've thought of them"
"I'll completely disregard the ramifications of making broad-brush changes to the game"

The bottom line is whilst you as an individual may think you know more than people who have intimate knowledge and access to data about the game, you don't.

Kateryne
Minmatar
Kat's Discount Weapon Emporium
NISYN Inc.
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:37:00 - [17]
 

Because the nerf/buff approach to everything ends up knocking more out of balance than it tends to fix.

By completely re-envisioning the high/low-sec divide it would be fixing far more than just isk income.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:38:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 23/05/2009 10:41:06
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Speak for yourself, a bare minimum of several hundred of us would be devastated if faction war was ever taken out of the game.[...]
Rightfully, 98% of everyone ignores that stupid part of faction war and go out blowing everything up in site instead.

I never said anything about REMOVING factional warfare.
I was merely pointing out the severe lack of INTEREST in factional warfare, especially considering it was *THE* main "selling point" of an entire expansion (they even ordered a book, ffs) - the fact a TINY MINORITY of the playerbase even bothers with it anymore, even if so much effort allegely went into creating the framework for it in the first place.
And I was explaining why exactly that is - the lack of rewards compared to the "baseline alternative".

My suggestion was that either the baseline needs to go lower, or the rewards of FW need to get noticeably greater.
I don't understand where you got the idea that this somehow implied removing FW...

Originally by: Durzel
I don't necessarily disagree with what you say, it's the manner that you state it.
[...]
The bottom line is whilst you as an individual may think you know more than people who have intimate knowledge and access to data about the game, you don't.

Ah, so you agree that what I am saying is correct, but you don't like my tone ?
Then why do you make a complete 180 and claim I have no idea what I'm talking about, wouldn't that imply you have no idea either ?
And yes, it is fully possible (even if from your viewpoint extremely unlikely) I have a better position to assess what works and what doesn't compared to the people who actually made the game in the first place.

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:39:00 - [19]
 

Hey I like the caps and the bolding and stuff, anything that makes posts read more like an interesting newspaper article and less like a wall of bland text is fine by me.

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:40:00 - [20]
 

There seems to be interest in FW, whether or not it's as CCP expected/hoped is another matter entirely. I presume you conducted a census and toured the galaxy to come to the conclusion that "FW is failing", because it would be pretty dumb to make a sweeping statement based on personal experience/agenda, wouldn't it?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:45:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
I presume you conducted a census and toured the galaxy to come to the conclusion that "FW is failing", because it would be pretty dumb to make a sweeping statement based on personal experience/agenda, wouldn't it?

That "census" is called "looking at the numbers of people in the militia" and "looking at the publically available FW activity logs". Don't you feel kind of stupid now ?
Originally by: Durzel
There seems to be interest in FW, whether or not it's as CCP expected/hoped is another matter entirely.

No, that's not "another matter entirely", it's precisely the point I am making.
For something that took so much developer time and was touted as the focus of one expansion, the adoption rate is abysmally small, and therefore, by any reasnable standards, a miserable failure.
Same story with T3/wormholes.
And the sad part is, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A MISERABLE FALURE, it only needs a bit of added incentive... which CCP consistently fail to provide.

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:50:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Durzel on 23/05/2009 10:51:25
And yet it seems, as always, that you hold all the obvious & easy-to-implement-with-no-collateral-damage-whatsoever answers to everything. You should work for CCP! Y'know instead of acting like you have intimate knowledge & access to internal data metrics of every aspect of their game.

If you word your propositions in such a way that it doesn't come off as "I know more about your game than you do" maybe you'd get somewhere instead of posting the same tired rants about whatever it is that you personally have a beef with week in, week out.

As I said before your other posts seem really productive, it's a shame you dilute them posting MMO-whine-template.doc threads like this.

Kateryne
Minmatar
Kat's Discount Weapon Emporium
NISYN Inc.
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:50:00 - [23]
 

Akita i think you are maybe missing the point of each new set of content.
They are to get everyone clamouring over and make it the new "isk maker", it's about diversifying peoples options.
We now have like 10 x as many things you can do ingame as when Eve first launched.
I'd say that's definitely "worth developer time".

Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:54:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Armoured C
Edited by: Armoured C on 23/05/2009 10:36:10
yeah eve is failing, so why dont you go play another game... oh that right YEAH because like myself you love this game to damm much .


if you dont like it akita you can always quit.

i agree with the post above CCP are brining in the numbers as it is what eve nature that is the important bit.

just a side note


FW was not ment to be a isk machine it is ment to be a pvp anywhere button and over 10k people in it it might not be ooh so popular that you level 4 but there are still people in involved.

TŁ: i am seeing more T3 ships everyday hell my alliance has caught a few in 0.0 remember that the citizen make the prices for the economy. Not liking the price for you stuff your collecting in the wormholes? well make your price? Just remember you are competing against everyone else

if CCP were doing something wrong sub number would of gone down instead of going up.

and while you main post just intreige on some points why cant you actually moan about stuff that has been happening much longer that a couple of expansions. please troll on something more constructive like sov mechanics Rolling Eyes

also movey movey to features page ?Wink


if you don't like it quit? wouldn't it be a better idea to make things better, so we all like it? admittedly Akitas posts are as usual very criticizing, but there is some constructive though there. and even if he is a narcissist who will probably drown himself on the first form of water he sees, he still raises a few good points.

so please, don't just go and troll, if you must, make an insult, like i did, and then offer some constructive criticism, its really not that hard :)

eve has a lot of problems. to me it feels like CCP cares less and less every day. maybe they are concerned with WoD, maybe they lost the passion and are all about the money. we don't know, but we see the results. mining has not received any attention for ages (or ever?), and (not sure on the exact number) 40% of minerals come form missions!?!?

if you start as a miner, they tell you to train for a raven, or make a new character.

maybe we feel like we are being ignored because CCP never makes any official responses to our threads. maybe they are in fact doing something about the bots (remember the thread that just vanished into the nothingness of the forums?), and about a ****load of other problems.

but i think we can all agree, that this game is still in BETA!

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:55:00 - [25]
 


Despite the fact that militia numbers have fell by roughly 60% since it first came out surprisingly it seems to some degree to have cut the chaff from the wheat.

Either that or the ones that stuck around learned their trade rather well.

I can't speak for the other militias but generally the Caldari militia is a very tight unit compared to what it used to be.

I remember the mess it was when faction war first came out, being terribly disorganised and people dropping like flies all over the place due to not alligning/warping/listening to comms and all that at one time.

Now most people seem to have a mic, spy checking is very thorough and everyone seems to know each other rather well like an actual little alliance.

The FC's are generally better than they've ever been too.

I would agree that Faction War hasn't been as successful as CCP hoped it would be though yes, at least not in the long term.

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:59:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
eve has a lot of problems. to me it feels like CCP cares less and less every day. maybe they are concerned with WoD, maybe they lost the passion and are all about the money. we don't know, but we see the results. mining has not received any attention for ages (or ever?), and (not sure on the exact number) 40% of minerals come form missions!?!?
Or maybe they realise that making unilateral changes to a system has far reaching knock-on effects.

T3 production not up to spec? Hey let's just make Sleepers drop 100x the amount of salvage they currently do. What's that? The economy has been trashed, oops who would've thought that would happen.

Low-sec population not high enough? Let's ramp up the rewards in low-sec. Oh, the people that are already there are monopolising these rewards now and are making runaway profits. We really should've thought of that...

I'n not saying the game is perfect, just that the correct solution for any change is to make small alterations and then spend some time (i.e. not a few days) reflecting on them.

Bearing in mine that EVE's economy is about as close to a real one as you can get in a MMO, you might as well just say that printing more money is the solution to a recession.

Rukia KuchikiSan
Posted - 2009.05.23 11:00:00 - [27]
 

Omg, akita, stop it, you are ridicolous.
You are simply asking for an i-rich button, full stop, i've read several thread that you made lately, you are simply in anger becouse you are not capable of becoming rich Laughing

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.05.23 11:01:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 23/05/2009 11:02:47
Originally by: Durzel
And yet it seems, as always, that you hold all the obvious & easy-to-implement-with-no-collateral-damage-whatsoever answers to everything. You should work for CCP!

Hey, what do you know, I do ! You say it in a sarcastic tone yet fail to provide any counter-point as to why they WOULDN'T be obvious and easy to implement solutions. And it's not like I'm the ONLY guy with thi kind of ideas. I'm just one of the more vocal ones LATELY.

And no, I wouldn't want to work for CCP, it's obvious they have plenty of people with good ideas, yet somebody somewhere is frakin' up the priorities and details of it all.
So, no, I would no longer want to work for CCP even if they made me a personal offer. I used to, once upon a time, but that was almost two years ago. Now, hell, no way.
That is, unless I see a change in the way they resolve things. Unlikely, but you never know.

Originally by: Kateryne
it's about diversifying peoples options

Something that is clearly inferior to existing "options" is NOT a diversification of options, it's useless junk, ballast, crap.
In order for something to constitute a viable option, it has to be at least on par with some of the better existing options.
Sadly, one of the best current option is a next to no-risk, reasonably-well-paying option.
How in the world can ANYTHING new compare to that unless it's either no-risk and similar payout, or INSANE payout with higher risk ?
Too bad all CCP did lately was to introduce either low-paying low-risk or somewhat decent paying but high-risk things, on top of several low-paying, high-risk things (ouch, what were they thinking) - sorry, NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Originally by: Rukia KuchikiSan
Omg, akita, stop it, you are ridicolous.
You are simply asking for an i-rich button, full stop, i've read several thread that you made lately, you are simply in anger becouse you are not capable of becoming rich Laughing

I could go into detail telling you the many ways you are wrong in such a short post, but I'll just say you're either a troll or a complete idiot.

Kateryne
Minmatar
Kat's Discount Weapon Emporium
NISYN Inc.
Posted - 2009.05.23 11:02:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Durzel
Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
eve has a lot of problems. to me it feels like CCP cares less and less every day. maybe they are concerned with WoD, maybe they lost the passion and are all about the money. we don't know, but we see the results. mining has not received any attention for ages (or ever?), and (not sure on the exact number) 40% of minerals come form missions!?!?
Or maybe they realise that making unilateral changes to a system has far reaching knock-on effects.

T3 production not up to spec? Hey let's just make Sleepers drop 100x the amount of salvage they currently do. What's that? The economy has been trashed, oops who would've thought that would happen.

Low-sec population not high enough? Let's ramp up the rewards in low-sec. Oh, the people that are already there are monopolising these rewards now and are making runaway profits. We really should've thought of that...

I'n not saying the game is perfect, just that the correct solution for any change is to make small alterations and then spend some time (i.e. not a few days) reflecting on them.

Bearing in mine that EVE's economy is about as close to a real one as you can get in a MMO, you might as well just say that printing more money is the solution to a recession.


The problem is that L4 Missions DO print money, as there is next to zero risk in highsecfor them.
Miners have to deal with ore thieves, rats and suicide gankers.
Traders have to deal with gate camps and suicide gankers.
But missions runners in high-sec have to deal with... erm... war-decs?

Yeah that's balanced!

Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.05.23 11:05:00 - [30]
 

nicely worded Akita

yes , the main issue is that there is but one infinite resource in EvE that can be accessed with 0 risk by everyone : highsec missions

now...buffing up everything else , imho, will do more harm then good , since there is allready waaay to much isk in game and it is ridiculously easy to make isk as it is . Further increasing isk-gain would all but kill meaningfull PvP (losses ftw!) and turn eve into FFA Counterstrike in space.............I mean as it stands ,losing a BS sets you back what? 2 -3 hours at most.

Oh , and to the ppl goin` "just quit if you dont like it"...you dont get EvE . EvE is all about the playerbase , the playerbase that loves the game and will stick to it , and not migrate from game to game like the wow herds . Strange as it may sound I care about EvE , there is no other MMORPG out there at the moment so yes I will speak my mind whine and ***** and moan about the serious issues in EvE.


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