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Rex Garvin
Posted - 2009.05.23 06:57:00 - [61]
 

I have feeling thier is more to this fix than they are telling us. I think they are testing to make sure they have found the fix.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2009.05.23 07:53:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Ban Doga on 23/05/2009 07:54:38
Edited by: Ban Doga on 23/05/2009 07:53:03
Originally by: De'Veldrin

If they didn't annonce it, you lot would all be in here ****ing and moaning about the lack of dev communication. Now that they have announced it, you're ****ing and moaning because they did.



A simple "we are tracking the problem / we have an idea / we're working on the problem / ..." is communication too.
Announcing a solution that will take a couple days to be deployed will of course make people wonder "Why not now?!"

Obviously there are people desperately waiting for this patch and there are several ways to make those people help.
E.g. they could deploy a hotfix on Sisi and tell people to get in there and test if they still have the problem.
And if it does not solve it, just revert to the former version (assuming this is possible) and take the new data to start another round.

And if the patch includes a fix for this and only this problem, the chances of introducing new problems should be lower.
(I don't think that a patch always needs to address several issues).



Originally by: De'Veldrin

FFS, if you think you can do a better job, hop on the next plane to Iceland, and give it a shot. Otherwise, STFU and wait like the rest of us.


I don't need to be a master chef to notice that a soup is too salty.

Awox
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Posted - 2009.05.23 08:12:00 - [63]
 

For almost three weeks the game has been unplayable for me, as lot of my game revolves around travel. I'm sure it has been the same for many others.

I wonder if CCP plans on saying "Yeah we let a few bad ones slip through, here's 14 days free game time for you!"

Management at CCP should really get rid of anyone in a QA position, if there are such people. Get in new people, your current team is obviously letting you down. :/

PeHD0M
Posted - 2009.05.23 08:44:00 - [64]
 

With every new patch EVE becames more and more buggy than before. This is a sad fact. There are some features, that remains broken since Apocrapblabla patch and a lot of them are in a very bad shape.

I can understand that they can't just work 24\7 and can't (don't want) deploy a fix during holidays.. they are a live people. Additional hurry can only cause more bugs like this.

My advice is: slow down the developing process. Please, take more time to fix the previos problems and properly test the build, before releasing it. Make this a priority 1, before introducing the new game features and hire more QA testers.. and don't push on them too hard.

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2009.05.23 08:47:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Rainhailer
Awesome. Take your time, don't listen to all these whiners who demand instant gratification on every single issue.


Agree. Better let this be tested so it doesn't make things worse, among other things. Wink

Originally by: Rainhailer
FFS people, quit being drama queens and making this out to be some catastrophe.


Disagree, because it is a catastrophe. This last patch has singlehandedly destroyed PvP, which is a huge and essential part of EVE. As it is right now, I can't go through gates without knowing if I survive or not. And when I come through, I can't be certain that I even see the hostiles that may or may not be there, because of the overview bug. Same goes with POS'.

Some people have compared this latch patch with RMR and said "at least it wasn't that expansion", but in my personal case I had less issues with RMR than I've had right now. Normally I spend the majority of my gameplay in hostile 0.0, but last week I've had four of my five (one is about to run out, so soon four) docked up in NPC 0.0/lowsec. The final one is in Empire and I've used that to make isk, which is kinda necessary for PvP but it's dull as f*ck.

It is a disaster, simply put, as it kills some of the major parts of the game. The 'whining' is the perfectly sensible approach to this. It won't make anyone happier to read no, but it does ruin the game completely, we do pay for it, and CCP needs to realise how much of a major ****up these bugs are.

But yah, I'd rather see this patch come through with some testing, in that regard I agree with you. I just hope CCP realises the overview bug is nearly as bad as the gate crash, it's bloody risky to PvP when you can't know for sure what's in space in front of you. That things really needs to be as high prio as the gatefix right now.

You are wrong.
Seoresly, sometimes i think there are people that are bored, have nothing to do and all they do is whine.
Nothing changes in Pvp, Nothing is going to change because your align time and anohter person's sensor strength are adjusted by 0.02%.

kenny smith
Posted - 2009.05.23 08:55:00 - [66]
 

it may be too late to help as you say you already have the fix but it seems to be more likely when your in a gang of say 10 and all jumping together. i traveled 63 jumps alone and crashed twice then go 6 jumps in gang and crash 3 times.

Jarlath Whitbray
Maxx Industries
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:06:00 - [67]
 

Please people, calm down, it's not like your boot.ini was deleted or anything. Your 0.02 refund will be transferred to your account within this century. And if you feel need to quit, please forward all your ISK and assets to...

<--- this character.

Enma Silpheed
Posted - 2009.05.23 10:56:00 - [68]
 

Still no fixes to the sound engine? The loud Invulnerability module sound is annoying.

Doomed Predator
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.05.23 11:08:00 - [69]
 

Took them long enoughRolling Eyes

David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew Reborn
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2009.05.23 11:10:00 - [70]
 

i lost an sb due to this bug :(

i jumped ... bugged out and by the time i relogged my sb was in structure

El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
Posted - 2009.05.23 11:53:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
[...] timing-related race condition [...]

Tautology detected.

borisgs
Posted - 2009.05.23 13:54:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: borisgs on 23/05/2009 14:01:14
when can i hear and see my 180mm dual autocannons shoot?
and please dont tell me again to clear cache files... cuz it dont work.

ah yea... and gallente tower is still flipping, turning, stretching, and other strange stuff, and strange metall parts dance around the tower sometimes lol.
please please please ccp, fix stuff before adding new one.

Mistress 2569
Posted - 2009.05.23 15:12:00 - [73]
 

Thou shall Carebear till Tuesday.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.23 15:43:00 - [74]
 

what will they break this tme, I wonder Rolling Eyes

Robaticus
Gallente
Order of the Griffin
Posted - 2009.05.23 16:08:00 - [75]
 

Wow. Apparently, those of you that are complaining have never worked on a software project more complex than "Hello World." When I think about everything that is in play both on client and server side, I am amazed that we don't have more "game stopping" bugs show up than we do today. I for one laud the CCP developers for creating a game so frakkin addicting that I spend a material portion of my life playing it. I can forgive a couple days of inconvenience.

An off-cycle release (meaning something that doesn't go out during normal patching times) increases overall cost and overall risk of software delivery. Keeping costs down keeps this game the same price it has been for years, and keeping risk down means that we won't see as many break-on-fix issues as we might.

Give these guys a break-- they work hard on one of the best MMO games out there, and one of the most complex, I'm sure.


Droog 1
Posted - 2009.05.23 16:50:00 - [76]
 

Relax guys. Once the CCP staff have got back from the holiday weekend they will fix the game for the paying customers. The last couple of patches have made PvP near impossible for 2 weeks and waiting 4 more days is no big deal.

However, if CCP already have a fix for this (as they claim) they should deploy it asap. If they think they have a fix but it still needs testing they shouldn't have announced that the problem will be fixed on Tuesday.

Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.05.23 17:12:00 - [77]
 

I thank the team at CCP for dealing with this bug in a timely fashion. most people don't realized how time consuming the bug process can be for an error such as this so they all need to quit *****ing and let them do their jobs. There are a lot of other games out there that would have taken longer to find a bug as this and even longer to fix it so the fact CCP took care of it within a week i find awesome.

Keep up the good work guys and i look forward to not having to log every time i get glitched...lmao.

oh and someone better tell those stargates to quit being racist...lmao

Mark Duquesne
Posted - 2009.05.23 19:08:00 - [78]
 

I can't even relog. I get sound, but no picture. Just an EVE button at the bottom of my desktop. And I only had one character logged in.

Nomad Alt
Posted - 2009.05.23 20:06:00 - [79]
 

Dont forget the warp bubble bug

they dont suck you in anymore but they are no the warp to object

so you can warp to them @ range !!!!!!!

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.05.23 21:05:00 - [80]
 

The texture for scan probes has been changed to something a little less eye bleeding

Please Sad

Trellish
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.05.24 00:08:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Trellish on 24/05/2009 00:17:47
Edited by: Trellish on 24/05/2009 00:13:48
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Lupra Nermona
There are player which are not blocked by the Gate-Jump-Crashes? For me the games is unplayable since the last patch: 3..5 jumps until stuck. Most of the time both clients are stuck in the same system.
The issue is a timing-related race condition that is very difficult to reproduce. In our testing, when we knew what was causing the issue, the reproduction had a low probability of occurring.



This is simultaneously true and an absolute lie. While there is a low probability that I personally will be the one to lock up at any individual jump, if you go in a gang whether it's pvp, mining, etc. (basically all the activities which constitutes actually playing this game... ) you have a near 100% chance of loosing gangmates at every jump. While I've done some autopiloting to test the bug myself, I found I did indeed have some randomness to the crash... sometimes locking every jump, sometimes going an entire half day without a crash... I don't think that's a very representative way to discuss the problem.

Roaming PVP is almost dead at the moment. The few attempts I've been part of or heard of from mates have involved either spectacular ganks because the other party locked, or horrendous losses becuase you did. It's too out of control and has no correlation to skill. It's simply not fun at the moment. that's the long and the short of it.

While I may not lock up every gate, if you have to wait 4 or 5 minutes at every single gate for all those who did lock up, then it's simply not feasible. One thing I particularly noted... jumping with multiple pilots simultaneously seems to exacerbate this bug.... while I can often go 10 or 15 jumps without crashing, in a roaming gang of 10, 3 or 4 would crash on every single stupid jump. MUCH higher stats than when looking at individual statistics.

This is not a "Low Probability of occurring" issue because of the way it's impacting multiple fliers... please don't treat it as such.

Quick edit: CCP, waiting until tuesday to deploy this fix... Official vote of thumbs down to that decision. I think that was a mistake... especially over a holiday weekend for us US chaps. I recognize that programming for this sort of thing is not a cakewalk, and that it's much more difficult than many give it credit for... however I must say, you have neither been very communicative regarding the problem, apologetic over inadvertently allowing it to happen, nor have you in any way indicated that you have put any significant priority to this game breaking bug.

Honestly, regardless of how difficult (or not) this problem is to solve, you're not doing the things regarding communication that that you have expressly told the EVE community that you would do. Is it any wonder you have significant frustration being vented at you?

Robaticus
Gallente
Order of the Griffin
Posted - 2009.05.24 02:19:00 - [82]
 

Let's be clear. What was said was:

Quote:
The issue is a timing-related race condition that is very difficult to reproduce. In our testing, when we knew what was causing the issue, the reproduction had a low probability of occurring.


What this means is that with 40,000 players, the chances of it happening randomly are pretty high. On a test server, getting all of the ducks in a row to make it happen with a small handful of people active, it becomes more difficult.

"Race conditions" are notoriously hard to reproduce when you want to, and notoriously easy to occur in the wild.

Peter Francisco
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2009.05.24 05:48:00 - [83]
 

I understand that this is difficult to reproduce in the lab, and appears to be rare... I understand that *very* well: bugs like that are what I make a living off of ;-)

But while it may be rare in the lab, it's happening *very* often on production servers - and impacting many users. My first question: Has any attempt been made to determine the impact objectively? If not, you may be able to assess the damage by querying how many users disconnect within two minutes of a jump (an underestimate, as it may miss people AFK on autopilot in empire). That should be an easy awk script... Compare to, say, the same time last weekend if possible.

If a fix is available and has confidence, I think it's absolutely worth fixing now instead of Tuesday, ideally during tonight's DT (Sunday morning Eve time), but even if it means rebooting Tranq off schedule. Living with this for an entire holiday weekend is just going to leave many users frustrated, offline, and looking for better ways to spend their time.

Ghost Prophet
Mugen Industry International
Tricell Coalition
Posted - 2009.05.24 07:31:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Trellish
Edited by: Trellish on 24/05/2009 00:17:47
Edited by: Trellish on 24/05/2009 00:13:48
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Lupra Nermona
There are player which are not blocked by the Gate-Jump-Crashes? For me the games is unplayable since the last patch: 3..5 jumps until stuck. Most of the time both clients are stuck in the same system.
The issue is a timing-related race condition that is very difficult to reproduce. In our testing, when we knew what was causing the issue, the reproduction had a low probability of occurring.



This is simultaneously true and an absolute lie. While there is a low probability that I personally will be the one to lock up at any individual jump, if you go in a gang whether it's pvp, mining, etc. (basically all the activities which constitutes actually playing this game... ) you have a near 100% chance of loosing gangmates at every jump. While I've done some autopiloting to test the bug myself, I found I did indeed have some randomness to the crash... sometimes locking every jump, sometimes going an entire half day without a crash... I don't think that's a very representative way to discuss the problem.

Roaming PVP is almost dead at the moment. The few attempts I've been part of or heard of from mates have involved either spectacular ganks because the other party locked, or horrendous losses becuase you did. It's too out of control and has no correlation to skill. It's simply not fun at the moment. that's the long and the short of it.

While I may not lock up every gate, if you have to wait 4 or 5 minutes at every single gate for all those who did lock up, then it's simply not feasible. One thing I particularly noted... jumping with multiple pilots simultaneously seems to exacerbate this bug.... while I can often go 10 or 15 jumps without crashing, in a roaming gang of 10, 3 or 4 would crash on every single stupid jump. MUCH higher stats than when looking at individual statistics.

This is not a "Low Probability of occurring" issue because of the way it's impacting multiple fliers... please don't treat it as such.

Quick edit: CCP, waiting until tuesday to deploy this fix... Official vote of thumbs down to that decision. I think that was a mistake... especially over a holiday weekend for us US chaps. I recognize that programming for this sort of thing is not a cakewalk, and that it's much more difficult than many give it credit for... however I must say, you have neither been very communicative regarding the problem, apologetic over inadvertently allowing it to happen, nor have you in any way indicated that you have put any significant priority to this game breaking bug.

Honestly, regardless of how difficult (or not) this problem is to solve, you're not doing the things regarding communication that that you have expressly told the EVE community that you would do. Is it any wonder you have significant frustration being vented at you?


Well said. *golfclap*

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2009.05.24 09:02:00 - [85]
 

I was in a roaming low-sec gang yesturday and we did not have problems with this.

Zostera
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.24 09:49:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev
I was in a roaming low-sec gang yesturday and we did not have problems with this.


Then you are very lucky.

I was in an 80 man fleet heading to help allies. The bug was stringing out our fleet and we were being chased by a larger hostile fleet. It was impossible to spam invites every jump to coordinate a gate trap so it was jump/log/warp/jump/log as fast as humanly possible.

On two gates I e-warped back to the logoff spot to see half a dozen chasing red tacklers e-warping away as they relogged too.

Some proper keystone cops moments and a truly horrible way to travel.

It is good that a fix is being tested, and testing is what we have pushed for in many many threads. However I think it would have been reasonable to have a Dev team on overtime to apply the patch Sunday or Monday in the event that sisi was succesful.

Furhter to that the one thing which stands out for me in all of this.

No apology from CCP...

Poor QA and development is bad enough, but an inablity to recognise the need to say "Sorry" is inexcusable.


Milo Caman
Gallente
Anshar Incorporated
Posted - 2009.05.24 09:55:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Zostera


Poor QA and development is bad enough, but an inablity to recognise the need to say "Sorry" is inexcusable.




This, to be honest.

hrjushkin
Posted - 2009.05.24 10:15:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: hrjushkin on 24/05/2009 10:16:12
Some check. Help please.

Someone who sais "I didn't have such a problem" - what is in your
ESC -> Display and Graphics -> Anvanced settings (checked) -> Present interval?

The question has been arised after I found that the 1.2.2 patch has forced to set this parameter to "default". I've put it back to my previous "immediate". The result is 2x more FPS and up-to-now 20+ jumps through the gates give me no bug..

Of cause it's may be just a lucky thing but need to be checked in a roaming.


Colonel Falkland
Posted - 2009.05.24 11:21:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: violator2k5

in my point of view not all of eves populace actually pay for their salaries as we have a lot of players who buy gtcs with ingame currency


You do realize that however the game time is purchased, CCP gets paid real cash for every second of game time used? If I sell a GTC for in game currency I GUARANTEE you CCP got cash for that GTC not in game currency. Or do you think CCP is selling GTC for in game currency? What kind of business model are you basing your thinking on?

Surprised


Jukio
Gallente
LFC
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2009.05.24 11:22:00 - [90]
 

It has thoroughly screwed up all pvp since the last patch was released and to be honest they should just roll back the clients to something that works, and fire the idiots that released this.


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