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Max Tux
Posted - 2009.05.19 18:19:00 - [1]
 

Right!

I was having a look at the 4 races logistics ships and thought about comparing them.

The guardian/ basilisk are best when paired up, using the energy transfer bonus to get cap stability and allowing more use of ECCM.

The scimi / oneiros are better at being cap stable by themselves, which gives better defense against jamming when working as a pair, as a jammed basi/ guard means both cap out.

was trying out a few fitting for these, they need to be cap stable ( reasonably), preferably use both bonii, seems easy to do on all of them, although you sacrifice the second bonii if you want to fit ECCM on the oneiros / scimi from what i can see.

so the rules for fitting
needs speed mod (AB)
needs cap stability (ish)
needs 4 reps ( they are designed for them)
need to survive long enough to get repped if attacked (buffer)
logistics 5 is used for all these fits as its a speicalised ship and they only seem to shine when logi 5 is used.

i'm ignoring drones in these fits as they can either be combat to help out / killmail *****, or logi.

[Basilisk]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

ECCM - Gravimetric II
10MN Afterburner II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Medium Shield Extender II

Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

cap stable with one LET aimed on it
speed : 575
sig: 106
buffer: 4.1K shields, 29K EHP

[Guardian]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
RADAR Backup Array II
Damage Control II

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector

Anti-Thermic Pump I
Anti-EM Pump I

Cap stable with one LET aimed on it
speed : 586
sig: 70
buffer: 3.9K armor, 30K EHP

[Oneiros]
Damage Control II
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Reactive Membrane II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Link II
10MN Afterburner II

Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Speed: 635
sig: 80
Buffer: 3.5K armor, 25.5K EHP

[Scimitar]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Link II
Cap Recharger II

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Speed: 785
Sig: 72
Buffer: 3.6K sheilds, 22.9K EHP

These may not be the best fits, but from the looks of it, the Basi is the slowest and has the largest Sig, neither of which is good for avoiding fire. Similarly the guardian is slow, but has a much lower sig. But the scimi and onerios seem to shine, esp is worked in pairs or more. Is it just me or does the sig on the Basi seem abit high as the base, 70/65/80/90(guard/scimi/onerios/basi)?

Opinions? flames against fits? better fits?


zombeee
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.05.19 20:29:00 - [2]
 

Use Remote Repair Augmentors

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.05.19 20:33:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: zombeee
Use Remote Repair Augmentors


eh

With logistics 5, youve got a -75% cap use bonus already - do the remote rep augs really work well enough to offset the cost of loosing CCC's?

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.05.20 00:41:00 - [4]
 

yesnokinda not really.
cap recharge helps "all" modules while remote rep augmentor only improves the remotes, and even reduce your speed by being an armor rig.
unless ofc you depend on munching cap charges
which i can recommend in case of the oneiros and in some specific gang setups even the scimi.

example
[Oneiros, New Setup 1]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

10MN Afterburner II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I

Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II

Remote Repair Augmentor I
Remote Repair Augmentor I

can also fit t1 mwd with a pg imp instead

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.05.20 00:46:00 - [5]
 

If I were gonna use any armor rig on my Ony it would def be Trimarks so that maybe someone would be able to lock me before I died. Do not leave home without multiple ECCM on an Ony, and I try to have a cap booster handy just in case I get some neut love. :-/

-Liang

Max Tux
Posted - 2009.05.20 01:27:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
If I were gonna use any armor rig on my Ony it would def be Trimarks so that maybe someone would be able to lock me before I died. Do not leave home without multiple ECCM on an Ony, and I try to have a cap booster handy just in case I get some neut love. :-/

-Liang


Good to know, i only fly basi atm both solo, and paired, never thought of using a cap booster, Embarassedalways thought it would be better to be able to run without one, but i guess it has a cargohold for a reasonSmile.

With the falcon nerf and as a result less falcons appearing in PVP ( from what i've seen at least, only had one or 2 uncloak on me since the patch) is double ECCM necessary? (OFC this is opinion based, but what the general concenus?)

What about the shield rigs on the Basi, they increase the already large sig res, but can't think of anything better to put there tbh.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.05.20 03:06:00 - [7]
 

What about sensor boosters? I'd drop the afterburner for a sensor booster, and use range as your tank. No sense having a powerful remote repper if you can't target your battleship friends before the enemies vaporise their 30k EHP. Of course, with multitasking you could have the whole gang pre-targetted, so depends on how you swing.

It may also be worth considering Remote ECCM on the Scimitar or Oneiros, if they are going to be working in pairs against ECM foes.


NoNah
Posted - 2009.05.20 03:50:00 - [8]
 

It's an somewhat odd comparisson.

Logistics can survive through two defences, and only two. Taking no damage or having someone ELSE repair that damage up. It doesn't matter if an ant has been eating nutritious and working out when you step on him.

This means you either need enough agility, speed and manueverability to survive or work in atleast pairs. This divides the logistics into two subgroups, the basilisk and guardian into one, and.. I'll get back to this. The basilisk and guardian both perform very well for two reasons. They can offload an huge amount of hitpoints - and they can take a beating in terms of cap warfare thanks to their cap creating abilities. You can keep hardeners running, you can keep your own remote reps runnign by bouncing back and forth, back and forth. As for the Oneiros and Scimitar, neut one kill the other and you're done. If you can catch it that is.

The other category, won't really need cap transfer in the same manner. It survives by acting quickly. You won't get neuted, and if you do you're dead anyway thanks to your lack of support. You're hardeners will die, your mwd will die, you will die. However, as long as you keep good orbit, keep your mates alive through quick injections you're golden. Here's the problem with the oneiros. It's not moving very fast. It's not locking very fast. It's not injecting very fast. Having the oneiros slowboat around, then initiate a lock(Not much worse, but still takes something like 7% longer to lock a cruiser) and then wait another 5 seconds for the rep cycles to hit, tends to fail. While it might not be a bad boat per se, the others are simply better.

My advice would be set basilisks and guardians up for group/pair work. Set scimitar up for solo work - that just happens to work well in groups. And compare the oneiros to either of these two and spot how the relative versatility it's gained, just cost the boat it's purpose, just like most other "versatile" boats in the history of EVE(Old nightmare, old naglfar and old sacrilege just to mention a recent couple).

Sumelar
Posted - 2009.05.20 03:58:00 - [9]
 

I'm gonna be flying a Scimitar for a while on the way to my command ship, are tracking links worth it in a general sense? Alliance is mostly wormhole based, light pvp and mostly sleeper combat. Or should I just stick with all remote reps and cap stability?

NoNah
Posted - 2009.05.20 04:24:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Sumelar
I'm gonna be flying a Scimitar for a while on the way to my command ship, are tracking links worth it in a general sense? Alliance is mostly wormhole based, light pvp and mostly sleeper combat. Or should I just stick with all remote reps and cap stability?


No, very very rarely worth i. I won't vouch for a wormhole space fitting for logistics, don't have that experience, but for pvp go for propulsion, eccm, buffer and even ew modules in mids rather than tracking links.

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.05.20 15:05:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 20/05/2009 15:06:09
yep, forget tracking links. they can be fun in some pve scenarios but for anything else, expect to be a "popular" target - and i'd add sleepers-switching-to-RR-ships to the latter tbh ugh

also note, all these fittings rely on a similar logi nearby.
the scimitar is probably the only one able to weasle around the battlefield on its own but it'll sacrifice logi-power (you'll still need to stay clear of vagas, curses and anything frig-like -.- try luring them to your gang)

but... my views on the scimitar can probably nest be summed up by this tri-kb

Andre Marconius
Gallente
Air
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.05.20 15:25:00 - [12]
 

I dunno about buffering an Oneiros, I always had speed tanking in mind if I bothered to train Logistics.

[Oneiros, New Setup 1]
Power Diagnostic System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Overdrive Injector System II
Capacitor Power Relay II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I


Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5

Goes 1939 m/s, sig radius of 480m2 but it is cap stable with RAR IV, HSM IV and Logi V. Also has a scan res of 730mm which is a bonus. Can swap the Sensor Booster for some ECCM if you think you are going to be jammed, will bring the sensor strength up to 39.2.

ry ry
Heroes.
Merciless.
Posted - 2009.05.20 15:33:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: ry ry on 20/05/2009 15:34:42

Originally by: Roemy Schneider
but... my views on the scimitar can probably nest be summed up by this tri-kb

do you find 2x LST enough, or do you drop one for the fitting? i almost always take three, any less than that and my repping is rubbish.

but then i always take a mwd too, so i'm already failing as-per the OP's rules. :`(

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.05.20 16:22:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: ry ry
Edited by: ry ry on 20/05/2009 15:34:42

Originally by: Roemy Schneider
but... my views on the scimitar can probably nest be summed up by this tri-kb

do you find 2x LST enough, or do you drop one for the fitting? i almost always take three, any less than that and my repping is rubbish.

but then i always take a mwd too, so i'm already failing as-per the OP's rules. :`(
"find it enough..?" no, i always want moar! ^^ if i had a permanent scimi partner, i'd ditch the shield booster for a third transporter immediately. until then, no cigar with this lacking powergrid 8[

Max Tux
Posted - 2009.05.20 17:28:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: ry ry

but then i always take a mwd too, so i'm already failing as-per the OP's rules. :`(


The rules, as you put them was a speed mod, the AB was just what i thought would work best, as getting cap stable with one and a tank is harder, and also the sig radius bloom, kinda doesn't help the avoiding damage part, but its all circumstantial i guess.

Tatiyana Garnet
Posted - 2009.05.20 19:40:00 - [16]
 

Anyone ever considered fitting a nos? =P

Mystafyre
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.05.20 20:05:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Mystafyre on 20/05/2009 20:07:19

Guardian or Basilisk depending on fleet tanking mode.

Tracking links are totally useless.

Cap transfer is absolutely mandatory!

Logistics V is mandatory, bonus per level is massive.

EDIT: You fit resistances on logistics ships, you do not fly them alone. Alliance tournament V logistic ship fittings are good ones, google them.




Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2009.06.12 20:55:00 - [18]
 

I tend to agree that tracking links are totally useless..... As such, I think that the Scimitar and Oneiros should lose their tracking link bonus', and get a bonus to projected ECCM!!!!! While not as useful as the cap transfer ability of the other two logistic ships, I think this bonus would provide a useful bonus.

And given that Gallente are very anti-caldari, I think it fits well within the storyline!

Harotak
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2009.06.12 21:13:00 - [19]
 

Scimitar is made of pure win. The only T2 ship worth flying other than dictors IMO.


 

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