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Allen Ramses
Caldari
Zombicidal Mania

Posted - 2009.07.31 22:43:00 - [241]
 

I, too, support removing RR in its entirety.

...Well, it may not be what was proposed, but removing RR outright would solve the OP's issue quite well.

sukmanobov
Minmatar
The Priesthood
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.08.01 01:47:00 - [242]
 

Edited by: sukmanobov on 01/08/2009 01:51:43
Edited by: sukmanobov on 01/08/2009 01:50:55
Originally by: Tortugan
If assisting a friend via RR is considered an aggressive act, who's to say that using your own local reps isn't? Is your next suggestion going to be 'HI THIS NIGHTMARE CAME OUT AND ACTIVE TANKED OUR WHOLE FLEET CCP PLEAASE NERF TANKING SO I MAY CONTINUE GRIEFING MINERS. KTHX.'


Common thing iv'e herd from our wt's that all we do is fight miners and hualers. Not True (aly with a 0.0 corp and get you miners out of harms way or leave them in a NPC corp and do contracts. its war FFS anyones a traget including your industrals).

Why would i find a active ship an agressive act? or a corp mate RRing for that matter? the subject is NUETRAL REMOTE REPPING not in corp repping.


Originally by: Tortugan

Who's supporting this change? Blobbers, griefers, and Privateers (all of the above). Who's opposing it? People who actually know their sh*t and enjoy having a chance in hell of fighting outnumbered.


Problem with that is we bring a fleet of say 5 BS couple of tackle maybe a HAC or two. To fight a maybe slighly better quiped fleet and as soon as it turns in our Favour out come the neutral RR they de-aggro dockup or fight on and we are left trying to break a Buffer tank being repped buy a T2 logistic thats 50km away from our fleet of Ships(P.S. in GGB's Case that probably more nuetral RR than they have members WI i think even you guys would have trouble in counter the sheer amount of nuet RR they have, Now that KAI86 is in afgan there corp has wound down a little).

It effects minmatar the most we can't just change ammo to gain alot more range like amarr, yes there is barrage but on a AC that maybe an extra 5-10km at most.

I am all for in corp repping don't get me wrong if they bait us and out come corp mates start repping in a huge buffer with no gun on there ship then well... We should have never let our selves be bated like that and its our own fault if we loose a ship. But nuetral Repping is just a crap way to win. were's the buzz when fighting a WT with balls to fight back?, where the buzz when you win by 50% struture?, how can you smack talk in local about how crap you WT was when you have to use sutch crapy tatics like nuet RR?.

Grow you'r corp a pair and actauly fight even and stop being scared to loose a ship. I might smack you in local but atleast poeple would have more respect for you.

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.08.01 04:11:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: sukmanobov
Edited by: sukmanobov on 01/08/2009 01:51:43
Edited by: sukmanobov on 01/08/2009 01:50:55
Originally by: Tortugan
If assisting a friend via RR is considered an aggressive act, who's to say that using your own local reps isn't? Is your next suggestion going to be 'HI THIS NIGHTMARE CAME OUT AND ACTIVE TANKED OUR WHOLE FLEET CCP PLEAASE NERF TANKING SO I MAY CONTINUE GRIEFING MINERS. KTHX.'


Common thing iv'e herd from our wt's that all we do is fight miners and hualers. Not True (aly with a 0.0 corp and get you miners out of harms way or leave them in a NPC corp and do contracts. its war FFS anyones a traget including your industrals).

Why would i find a active ship an agressive act? or a corp mate RRing for that matter? the subject is NUETRAL REMOTE REPPING not in corp repping.


Originally by: Tortugan

Who's supporting this change? Blobbers, griefers, and Privateers (all of the above). Who's opposing it? People who actually know their sh*t and enjoy having a chance in hell of fighting outnumbered.


Problem with that is we bring a fleet of say 5 BS couple of tackle maybe a HAC or two. To fight a maybe slighly better quiped fleet and as soon as it turns in our Favour out come the neutral RR they de-aggro dockup or fight on and we are left trying to break a Buffer tank being repped buy a T2 logistic thats 50km away from our fleet of Ships(P.S. in GGB's Case that probably more nuetral RR than they have members WI i think even you guys would have trouble in counter the sheer amount of nuet RR they have, Now that KAI86 is in afgan there corp has wound down a little).

It effects minmatar the most we can't just change ammo to gain alot more range like amarr, yes there is barrage but on a AC that maybe an extra 5-10km at most.

I am all for in corp repping don't get me wrong if they bait us and out come corp mates start repping in a huge buffer with no gun on there ship then well... We should have never let our selves be bated like that and its our own fault if we loose a ship. But nuetral Repping is just a crap way to win. were's the buzz when fighting a WT with balls to fight back?, where the buzz when you win by 50% struture?, how can you smack talk in local about how crap you WT was when you have to use sutch crapy tatics like nuet RR?.

Grow you'r corp a pair and actauly fight even and stop being scared to loose a ship. I might smack you in local but atleast poeple would have more respect for you.



I challenge you to reference ONE engagement- even a SINGLE engagement in which any member of F9X has fought against the privateers, and were not outnumbered by the privateers. (The one exception I can think of is when we helped GGB station blob you- but I don't think that really counts, as it wasn't our fleet). And yes- I am including RR, both neutral and in corp/alliance on both sides of the engagement.

galphi
Gallente
Furnulum pani nolo
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.08.01 07:52:00 - [244]
 

Gotta be done.

Roastedpot
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.08.01 09:35:00 - [245]
 

woo

Cochise
20th Legion
Sodalitas XX
Posted - 2009.08.01 09:58:00 - [246]
 


TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.08.01 11:18:00 - [247]
 

Let them get concorded or what OP suggested.

Xianbei
Posted - 2009.08.01 13:32:00 - [248]
 

Edited by: Xianbei on 01/08/2009 13:42:07
Edited by: Xianbei on 01/08/2009 13:35:55
Edited by: Xianbei on 01/08/2009 13:32:33
Originally by: Tortugan

Bottom line: The current mechanic is fine how it is for several reasons-
1) RR is not an AGGRESSIVE act. Just like running local reps vs running a warp scrambler- RR is a defensive boost ONLY.
2) There are NUMBEROUS counters to remote rep- try being creative about how you fight RR gangs- in some cases more DPS is best, in others, EWAR is king.
3) This would only serve to boost station blobbing by people like the Privateer Alliance, and once again, provide yet another nerf to small gang, guerrilla style warfare.
4) EVERYONE can use RR. It has NEVER been classified as a glitch, an exploit, or anything of the sort by CCP, which seems to be the main argument for the change.


bullocks
1. then why does the repper turn red ? dude, take vitamins. you are completely unable to think logically. let me repeat more slowly: w h y d o e s t h e r e p p e r t u r n red ? understand now ?
2. please tell me what the counter to constantly docking and undocking, getting a few reps off each time. how can that be countered ? go ahead and say stop fighting on stations. then we know you just want to nerf station fighting. because station fighting should not be part of the game at all right ? again, not a discussion about RR. its about the penalty timer.
3. no it certainly doesnt. you are basically defending, as a small gang tactic, the ability to dock with impunity.
4. again, the argument is not about RR. you keep squirming offtopic when its convenient. the issue is penalty timer, not the use of RR.

edit1: forgot to check support
edit2: addendum to 3. to use your own argument against you, blobbing is a perfectly acceptable mechanic. EVERYONE CAN USE BLOBBING. see how that works ?
edit3: addendum to 1. if RR is not aggressive as you claim and is purley "defensive", then the same is true for falcon. after all, a falcon doesnt actually hurt the ship its jamming. the hurting is done by dps from other ships. the falcon is merely a defensive boost. yeah, purely defensive. again, using your own argument against you to show how utterly stupid it is.

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.08.02 04:35:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Xianbei
Edited by: Xianbei on 01/08/2009 13:42:07
Edited by: Xianbei on 01/08/2009 13:35:55
Edited by: Xianbei on 01/08/2009 13:32:33
Originally by: Tortugan

Bottom line: The current mechanic is fine how it is for several reasons-
1) RR is not an AGGRESSIVE act. Just like running local reps vs running a warp scrambler- RR is a defensive boost ONLY.
2) There are NUMBEROUS counters to remote rep- try being creative about how you fight RR gangs- in some cases more DPS is best, in others, EWAR is king.
3) This would only serve to boost station blobbing by people like the Privateer Alliance, and once again, provide yet another nerf to small gang, guerrilla style warfare.
4) EVERYONE can use RR. It has NEVER been classified as a glitch, an exploit, or anything of the sort by CCP, which seems to be the main argument for the change.


bullocks
1. then why does the repper turn red ? dude, take vitamins. you are completely unable to think logically. let me repeat more slowly: w h y d o e s t h e r e p p e r t u r n red ? understand now ?
2. please tell me what the counter to constantly docking and undocking, getting a few reps off each time. how can that be countered ? go ahead and say stop fighting on stations. then we know you just want to nerf station fighting. because station fighting should not be part of the game at all right ? again, not a discussion about RR. its about the penalty timer.
3. no it certainly doesnt. you are basically defending, as a small gang tactic, the ability to dock with impunity.
4. again, the argument is not about RR. you keep squirming offtopic when its convenient. the issue is penalty timer, not the use of RR.

edit1: forgot to check support
edit2: addendum to 3. to use your own argument against you, blobbing is a perfectly acceptable mechanic. EVERYONE CAN USE BLOBBING. see how that works ?
edit3: addendum to 1. if RR is not aggressive as you claim and is purley "defensive", then the same is true for falcon. after all, a falcon doesnt actually hurt the ship its jamming. the hurting is done by dps from other ships. the falcon is merely a defensive boost. yeah, purely defensive. again, using your own argument against you to show how utterly stupid it is.


1) The repper turns red because yes, he is aiding someone. However the repper himself is not shooting. He is adding 0 dps to the fight.
2) There are plenty of counters, as I've stated multiple times. If RR is so overpowered, how come I'm able to kill people using RR daily? Again, I've linked plenty of related KMs, so I wont get into that.
3) You're somewhat correct here- I believe that small gangs who chose to engage station camping griefers should be allowed at least some form of GTFO button. Think of it this way- if they weren't in RR battleships, they'd be in gank fit battleships- so they really are sacrificing a lot in order to use TEAMWORK to take on overwhelming numbers.
4)This is very relevant to the discussion- are you saying that RR has nothing to do with a docking timer revolving around the use of RR? Come on now.

Xorth Adimus
Caldari
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.08.02 13:41:00 - [250]
 


Eato
Gallente
Federal Defence Union

Posted - 2009.08.04 17:35:00 - [251]
 


Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2009.08.10 08:11:00 - [252]
 


Kuan Mao
Gallente
Triumvirate Maximus
0ld Republic
Posted - 2009.08.13 08:17:00 - [253]
 

I find it fascinating that a member of Privateer Alliance has started this - I am actually supporting this because they relentlessly use this tactic. I agree with everyone who has expressed that people who involve themselves in a PvP fight on any level should become valid targets for all involved parties.

Thanks,
Kuan

Pawus Deco
Scalar Tech
Posted - 2009.08.13 12:56:00 - [254]
 


Rikki Thrale
Posted - 2009.08.17 04:38:00 - [255]
 

Kuan got it in one, i support this motion simply because Privateers rage so much about it and have become its biggest user in Eve.

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.17 04:47:00 - [256]
 

uh.. you should prob talk to your corpmates about this as well there, The PitBoss. I like fighting against you dudes last time we got decced, but I was in the 'dix (aka dodixie) today and ur member Mirrabela was getting rr'ed exploiting the same mechanic u are complaining about. and i might be going out on a limb here, but i guess it was an alt cuz the toon's name was Mirrabella (note the epix dif'rence in namez lolz) who was chillin' in a Guardian during the entire engagement. Just don't want you to look like a hypocrite, that's all. Get back to me on it if you want.

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.08.17 07:02:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Burseg Sardaukar
...[TEARS]...


Your tears are delicious ... thank-you.

Uh ... I might be going out on a limb but I would guess you haven't read ANY of the thread and just blind post Rolling Eyes

As for being a hypocrite ... I've never used the tactic AND haven't called for an END to remote repping ...

Suggestion: Wipe the tears from your eyes ... and actually read the original post ... Get back to ME on it then .. if you want ... I will have a box of kleenex if need be.


Harotak
Malicious Destruction
Posted - 2009.08.17 07:08:00 - [258]
 

I still think that using remote repair should cause a 60 second aggression timer, and if done in a way that flags you to someone who is otherwise neutral, should result in 30 days of kill-rights to the people you acted against.

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.08.17 09:28:00 - [259]
 

Edited by: Tortugan on 17/08/2009 09:29:15
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: Burseg Sardaukar
uh.. you should prob talk to your corpmates about this as well there, The PitBoss. I like fighting against you dudes last time we got decced, but I was in the 'dix (aka dodixie) today and ur member Mirrabela was getting rr'ed exploiting the same mechanic u are complaining about. and i might be going out on a limb here, but i guess it was an alt cuz the toon's name was Mirrabella (note the epix dif'rence in namez lolz) who was chillin' in a Guardian during the entire engagement. Just don't want you to look like a hypocrite, that's all. Get back to me on it if you want.


Your tears are delicious ... thank-you.

Uh ... I might be going out on a limb but I would guess you haven't read ANY of the thread and just blind post Rolling Eyes

As for being a hypocrite ... I've never used the tactic AND haven't called for an END to remote repping ...

Suggestion: Wipe the tears from your eyes ... and actually read the original post ... Get back to ME on it then .. if you want ... I will have a box of kleenex if need be.




Pit- rather than insult people who bring up valid points, why don't you actually consider responding to them with a legitimate argument. For someone who's calling for a nerf to neutral RR, it would seem that the logical first step might be to purge your alliance of it, no?

I'll be impressed if when you quote me, you actually include what I've said, rather than editing out valid ideas to make yourself look cooler.

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.08.17 15:05:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: The PitBoss on 17/08/2009 16:02:57

Originally by: Tortugan
:: more troll ::


If you'd stop trolling the thread and ACTUALLY read it ... you will find my stance throughout the whole thing ... Rolling Eyes

As for purging my alliance of it ... well, If it can be used against us ... AND is a valid tactic (for now) ... why should I even attempt to purge it ... would it make CCP act any different towards the issue? Wink ... you don't have to be a genius to come to the conclusion: NO


As for insulting people ... I only take shots back when they shoot first


As for looking cooler ... reality check ... Its an internet space ship game.


Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.08.17 16:53:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: Tortugan on 17/08/2009 16:53:54
Originally by: The PitBoss
I LIEK MUDKIPZ


But really- what do mudkipz have to do with remote rep? :D

Well now that you're actually responding to arguments, I have a couple of questions which I don't think have been answered- though it's quite possible that they've been lost in the walls of text-

1) I don't believe it was ever specified by you whether this will be a change to NEUTRAL remote rep, or ALL remote rep- in other words, if I RR a corp mate, alliance mate, blue? Do I get this same countdown? If so, you may want to change the title and FP as they're slightly misleading.

2) How can you justify a labeling a defensive action as an aggressive one? This would be the equivalent of saying that local reps should give an aggro timer as well. As far as involving yourself in the fight, sure- but if I'm fighting you, and a friend of mine RRs me as I do so, once I deagress, why should it take longer for him to dock up than me? A change that I could respect would be that as long as your RRing someone who's shooting/aggressing, you'd get the countdown- but when they stop, you get the same 1 minute countdown that they do starting then.

3) Why the hostility? As you said- it's an internets spaceship game- be happy :)

Edit: For those wondering why I misquoted PB, check his an my last 2 posts and you'll understand :)

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.08.17 17:37:00 - [262]
 

Edited by: The PitBoss on 17/08/2009 17:41:50

Originally by: Tortugan
Crying or Very sad


Honestly I'm done being trolled by you so wont be responding anymore to you or your alts ...

Talking to you is like talking to a wall ... you just don't get it because you're too lazy to read the entire thread and get the answer for yourself because all this has been brought up and discussed already ...

Just know this ... the CSM have already voted unanimously to bring this issue to CCP ... UNANIMOUSLY ... showing their support and acknowledgement that this is an issue that needs to be looked into ...

Your displeasure for the change has been noted ... especially since its a major part of your gaming

Enjoy the nerf in the future Wink

see you in the next thread I create

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.08.17 20:47:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: The PitBoss
Edited by: The PitBoss on 17/08/2009 17:41:50

Originally by: Tortugan
Crying or Very sad


Honestly I'm done being trolled by you so wont be responding anymore to you or your alts ...

Talking to you is like talking to a wall ... you just don't get it because you're too lazy to read the entire thread and get the answer for yourself because all this has been brought up and discussed already ...

Just know this ... the CSM have already voted unanimously to bring this issue to CCP ... UNANIMOUSLY ... showing their support and acknowledgement that this is an issue that needs to be looked into ...

Your displeasure for the change has been noted ... especially since its a major part of your gaming

Enjoy the nerf in the future Wink

see you in the next thread I create



Pit- I've read the thread- hell, I think I've posted more in it than you have. I'm not even saying that your ideas are wrong- I'm saying that I'd like clarification on them. Please stop avoiding legitimate questions:

1) I don't believe it was ever specified by you whether this will be a change to NEUTRAL remote rep, or ALL remote rep- in other words, if I RR a corp mate, alliance mate, blue? Do I get this same countdown? If so, you may want to change the title and FP as they're slightly misleading.

2) How can you justify a labeling a defensive action as an aggressive one? This would be the equivalent of saying that local reps should give an aggro timer as well. As far as involving yourself in the fight, sure- but if I'm fighting you, and a friend of mine RRs me as I do so, once I deagress, why should it take longer for him to dock up than me? A change that I could respect would be that as long as your RRing someone who's shooting/aggressing, you'd get the countdown- but when they stop, you get the same 1 minute countdown that they do starting then.


----
Either answer those, or link me to the post here where you have.

Matting
Capital Storm.
Reverberation Project
Posted - 2009.08.18 06:38:00 - [264]
 

While I do support a change not sure if a separate docking timer is appropriate.

I would like to see any aggression including docking timers transfered to the RR, this means if you want your RR to dock up you either stop RR your target or you get your target to stop aggressing so both of you can dock.
This would allow say a few RR BS to all keep RR each other on a gate or station and use this as a tactic, else you will require a logistics ship 50km off the battle to help every one to dock and encouraging the use of more alt/ooc remote reps. Of course if you have someone silly in your gang and is still aggressed while everyone is RR them when they were supposed to deagress it could cause more losses. It makes team work and communication a more critical part of the fight.

Mr John22ta
Supercarrier Aggression
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.08.18 12:51:00 - [265]
 

Supported Cool

sukmanobov
Minmatar
The Priesthood
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.08.18 16:02:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Burseg Sardaukar
uh.. you should prob talk to your corpmates about this as well there, The PitBoss. I like fighting against you dudes last time we got decced, but I was in the 'dix (aka dodixie) today and ur member Mirrabela was getting rr'ed exploiting the same mechanic u are complaining about. and i might be going out on a limb here, but i guess it was an alt cuz the toon's name was Mirrabella (note the epix dif'rence in namez lolz) who was chillin' in a Guardian during the entire engagement. Just don't want you to look like a hypocrite, that's all. Get back to me on it if you want.


I can't realy understand this. The sheer number of fights iv'e been in and i have never had a Neutral Remote Repper in the fleet with MBALM or even privs. wev'e had RSB's but never Nuet RR.

Hmmmmmm

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.08.18 17:12:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Matting
While I do support a change not sure if a separate docking timer is appropriate.

I would like to see any aggression including docking timers transfered to the RR, this means if you want your RR to dock up you either stop RR your target or you get your target to stop aggressing so both of you can dock.
This would allow say a few RR BS to all keep RR each other on a gate or station and use this as a tactic, else you will require a logistics ship 50km off the battle to help every one to dock and encouraging the use of more alt/ooc remote reps. Of course if you have someone silly in your gang and is still aggressed while everyone is RR them when they were supposed to deagress it could cause more losses. It makes team work and communication a more critical part of the fight.


What you're supporting is a completely reasonable solution- however it's not what Pitboss had in mind when he created this thread (unless he did, and he's just refusing to clarify, because apparently I'm 'trolling').

Audi Amarr
Amarr
First Flying Wing Inc
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2009.08.23 12:36:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Fille Balle
Suggested fix that is already implemented:

1. stop pvp'ing in empire
2. stop playing station games
3. ??????????????????????????
4. profit!

No need for additional fixes.

Not supported.

Shocked
Fille Balle Arrow This guy belongs in a 'RuB Out Corp' hide little Carebare

I approve of this Request 100% If your going to stick your nose in it, then you have made a decision and all consequences that go with it should apply. Stop CCP with all this Carebare touchy feely be nice crap .

Lord Timelord
GETCO
Waterboard
Posted - 2009.08.27 11:32:00 - [269]
 

Supported!

Emerald Cortess
Caldari
Konstrukteure der Zukunft
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.08.27 12:18:00 - [270]
 

I support the idea of removing neutral RR completely.

Reason:
The war is between two corps/allys and sanctioned by concord. If anyone else wants to participate in any way (active supporting one side or fighting against the other), they have to declare an own war or join one of the corps.
They also still could help one side passively, by giving intel/scouting, supplying them with ships/modules.


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