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blankseplocked [ISSUE] Neutral/ALT Remote Repping & Aggression
 
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ViRUS Pottage
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.29 01:59:00 - [61]
 

Supported.

Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra

Posted - 2009.05.29 02:46:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Jimer Lins on 29/05/2009 02:46:21
Supported like a mfer.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.05.29 03:15:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
There's something hilarious about Privateer Alliance of all people complaining about the use of NPC corp alts.

However its a valid issue, so thumbs up.

Bret Caliaro
Harassment Inc.

Posted - 2009.05.29 12:09:00 - [64]
 

supported

Asmodean Reborn
Psykotic Meat
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2009.05.29 12:13:00 - [65]
 

Will just force people to RR in plated BS but it's still def an issue.

Erik Finnegan
Gallente
Polytechnique Gallenteenne

Posted - 2009.05.30 08:42:00 - [66]
 

Supported!

You enter in a fight: you are not neutral anymore. We need to start doing something about the neutrals who take sides.

Doing it repeatedly...would that not usually involve that party into the war, if there is a war going on ? Just one thought to making war decs more dynamic and uncontrollable (both for the aggressor as for the aggressed).

And is there not also an improvement potential with "neutral" trafficker alliance war support out of high-sec ? That one is more tricky so solve, though. I will suggest something in another thread later.

Totally Hopeless
Posted - 2009.05.30 10:08:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Totally Hopeless on 30/05/2009 10:10:20
While the Boss has rendered me many a wreck over the years, in this I have to agree... having seen a singe Abaddon sitting on a station under the fire of no less than 7 BS and assorted support being repped by not one but six neutral reppers/logis, and watching each of those dock & immediately undock as soon as they were jammed or engaged, it gets insanely frustrating.

Not only are they 100% immune to retribution for supporting our war target, they can break ECM, escape drones, are invulnerable to damage, and all the while continue to foul the entire field pointlessly.

[option]
If a neutral provides support for a hostile, that individual gets flagged as a war target for the duration of the target's war.

I'm all for war declarations flagging individuals, so that jumping corp does not shed said flag, this would just be an extension of that.

Jared Noah
Posted - 2009.05.30 15:37:00 - [68]
 

Supported.

Dyvim Slorm
Robonia

Posted - 2009.05.30 15:40:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Dyvim Slorm on 30/05/2009 15:40:31
Supported, long overdue

Merw
Caldari
Environment of Evolution

Posted - 2009.05.30 19:38:00 - [70]
 

supported

Shigsy
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.31 00:56:00 - [71]
 

Not supported unless it refers to only neutral alts.

You're in a rr gang, you get completely blobbed so the order is given to deaggro and prepare to jump. So instead of just sitting there trying to keep your friends alive, you hope you all make it out alive? I agree there is a problem with neutral logistics, but this fix will also ****up normal rr gangs.

Political Prisoner
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.05.31 03:31:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Shigsy
Not supported unless it refers to only neutral alts.

You're in a rr gang, you get completely blobbed so the order is given to deaggro and prepare to jump. So instead of just sitting there trying to keep your friends alive, you hope you all make it out alive? I agree there is a problem with neutral logistics, but this fix will also ****up normal rr gangs.


So you sacrifice one to the PVP gods, he tries to keep the rest alive and the rest de-aggro.

Sux not to have the 'I WIN' button all the time Crying or Very sad


Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.05.31 11:04:00 - [73]
 

Supporting this and bringing it up at CSM meeting #1

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2009.05.31 12:08:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Random Womble on 31/05/2009 12:09:21
Not supported because this effects the way logistics ships in general work in PvP roaming or what not as it is logistics are usable they can still die and you can also scare that guys alt off or jam it FFS then kill him but if you change this logistics ships will become useless they dont have the survivability to be used most of the time without leaving the options open and trust me logistics ships still die i have lost a few.

I suggest all of you that voted to support this go try flying a logistics ship in whatever situation you want 5 man HAC gang 10 man BS gang whatever and see how long you survive if you allways stay put it wont be long most cases trust me. While logistics alts are an issue there are ways of dealing with them. And people will still play docking games and infact because you wont get them aggroed you will end up now with less chance of killing them.

BTW just to clarify i have never flown logistics in neutral/npc corp i am allways in the corp that is at war.

Lunewraith
Amarr
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.05.31 12:17:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Lunewraith on 31/05/2009 12:17:10
Supported. Aggression mechanics need a serious look. You undock and engage or assist you should expect to face a fight. Less stupid station games the better imo.

TraininVain
Posted - 2009.05.31 12:21:00 - [76]
 

Supported.

RR alt spoonery is pretty spoon.

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.05.31 15:10:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Erik Finnegan
Supported!

You enter in a fight: you are not neutral anymore. We need to start doing something about the neutrals who take sides....


Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Supporting this and bringing it up at CSM meeting #1


AWESOME ...

Thanks CSM Erik Finnegan and CSM Dierdra Vaal for responding and letting us know where you stand on this issue.


Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2009.05.31 22:48:00 - [78]
 

Btw you wont get rid of neutral logistics alts doing this they will just sit out of drone/scram/web range (so around 60-70kms off) aligned with a stab on all your going to do is as i said earlier screw up normal logistics pilots and in the end you will make it harder not easier to kill your station hugging prey and their logistics alts. Also this would effect remote repping BS gangs rather than being able to try and disengage and tank it out then jump you would just have to accept your going to die and sit there (while jumping may seem cowardly not your fault if idiots dont have a way to tackle you on the other side). Also would have to change remote sensor boosting/ECCM mechanics at the sam time (might alter some pirates play styles).

I also find it ammusing having just realised whos started this thread given privateers love their alts with remote sensor boosting ect last time i checked.

You should look more towards finding a way to make it a pain to use neutral alts not to make remote repping give agression and therefore invalidate logistics as a ship class. One potential way is to extend the agression timer for out of war related remote repping to say an hour or perhaps 2 making it a huge time sink for that alt or even for a day for helping a war target you become a target for 24 hours. Im sure there are other potential solutions just im sorry but screwing up logistics just so a few station huggers actually stay docked rather than fooling around is not worth it.

Also just for a second assume as things are you briefly shoot the logistics so they dock up/run you then have a decent time frame 40-50 seconds (if you take into account lag from the jump both ways/docking (loading system/station) + logistics decloaking then relocking most of the time that will not far off what you need to kill that person plus if the logistics decloaks/moves staright away after undocking/jumping you have 30 seconds to kill them before they can bug out again so either your going to get time to kill them or you get another 30 seconds on top of the 40-50 to kill your opponent so is it really that bad? infact if you cant kill them that quickly they can just deaggro then dock/jump themselves.

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.06.01 00:14:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Random Womble
I also find it ammusing having just realised whos started this thread given privateers love their alts with remote sensor boosting ect last time i checked.


Rolling Eyes


Kaito Haakkainen
Posted - 2009.06.01 00:16:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Kaito Haakkainen on 01/06/2009 00:16:48

Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
I would take it a step further and give the people who are attacking the person getting RR'd killrights on the RR'er


I'd have using a remote "buff" module on a target set you as hostile, and be added to the kill-mail and kill-rights of anything your target activates a hostile module on.

The weapon used text on kill-mails could read either the "buff" module used, the name of the player being buffed, or both.
Those in NPC corps should be made unable to activate "buff" modules on other players.

As Womble states though, adding RR to the GCC would do a lot of damage to the Logistics class in exchange for almost no benefit.

Togg Bott
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe

Posted - 2009.06.01 00:41:00 - [81]
 

i have to support this idea as well

Dex Atherton
Minmatar
Individual Retirement Accounts
Posted - 2009.06.01 05:07:00 - [82]
 

Supported.

It's common sense: if you get involved in the fight you're not neutral anymore.

Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
Posted - 2009.06.01 10:22:00 - [83]
 

Supported.

Kasi Kasai
Posted - 2009.06.01 17:03:00 - [84]
 

Supported.

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.06.01 23:03:00 - [85]
 

Needs a bit of clarification- would any sort of assistive module (remote sensor booster, ECCM, etc) have the same effect? Would corp mates RRing each other have the same 1 minute countdown?

As described, assuming corp mates are affected by the countdown, I disagree with this proposal. While neutral reps are a *****, this proposal would essentially eliminate guerrilla warfare as we know it- there would be no feasible way to fight outnumbered, and Eve would become even more about who has the bigger blob.

I believe the reason that this change hasn't been implemented already is because CCP wants Eve to be about the tactics- you need to take precautions against neutral reppers for yourself- if you see logi ships on scan, take them into account- and if they undock from a station you're fighting on, scram/web them before they can burn away, and add a guardian kill to that engagement. Also, get smart- if you're fighting the same people often enough to bother complaining about their RR, write down the names of their neutral reppers and send them as a corp mail- when you see them in local or on the battlefield, expect and prepare for them to RR.

Please consider what this change will do to small gang/guerrilla style warfare prior to confirming it's implementation.

Eos Canon
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2009.06.02 06:44:00 - [86]
 

I wholeheartedly support this.

Wyliee
Taurus Inc
THE KLINGONS
Posted - 2009.06.02 18:16:00 - [87]
 

supported.

with this in mind i think logistic's prob need a slightly better defence, to give them a hope of holding out the timer.

VIncent Vance
Gallente
URSALIS LOGISTICS GROUP

Posted - 2009.06.02 18:19:00 - [88]
 

I support this proposal. Twisted Evil

Seymour Roids
Neptune Research Corporation

Posted - 2009.06.02 18:20:00 - [89]
 

Supported.

Regulottus
Neptune Research Corporation

Posted - 2009.06.02 18:21:00 - [90]
 

This needs to be dealt with - supported.


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